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Lightning Knight posted:Yes you should because that's a lot of Done.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:37
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KillHour posted:That's different than saying "You're too poor to waste this limited resource (transplant organs) on. Come back when you're richer." The bar is always going to be somewhere though. The super expensive individually tailored therapy stuff that costs like a million+ per treatment isn't considered worth funding from public money in my country in most cases, so it's essentially the same thing. I mean obviously the difference is that transplant medicine is relatively cheap in comparison. Ideally the cost cutoff is incredibly high, but even in completely government controlled healthcare not everyone can always get treatment. e: My point is that there's always going to be someone where it seems like it's Pay or Die. All you can do is try to get the most people possible treated.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:38
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Skex posted:Do y'all not get that the natural consequence of shifting the Overton window to the left is that people who were previously to the left of center end up on the right of the new center? someone tell the metric people we need a measurement smaller than planck lengths to describe how close skex got to getting it
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Nov 24, 2018 17:41
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KillHour posted:That's different than saying "You're too poor to waste this limited resource (transplant organs) on. Come back when you're richer." Well, it's saying "If you have the financial means to travel to US or Germany and pay for treatment out of pocket, go for it. Otherwise we aren't interested in using our limited resources (NHS funds) on you and your treatable illness."
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Nov 24, 2018 17:43
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KingNastidon posted:Well, it's saying "If you have the financial means to travel to US or Germany and pay for treatment out of pocket, go for it. Otherwise we aren't interested in using our limited resources (NHS funds) on you and your treatable illness." This is a much more succinct way of saying what I was getting at. Incredibly expensive targeted therapies can't be handled by NHS analogues in countries because they can treat a thousand normal illnesses with the same money. So there's always going to be some form of the death panel in place whether it's obvious or not.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:46
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RandomBlue posted:Driving drunk is a form of criminal intent, but thanks for playing. Yeah and so are racist policies implemented to boost one's "bipartisan" appeal, thanks for playing.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:49
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Nurge posted:The bar is always going to be somewhere though. The super expensive individually tailored therapy stuff that costs like a million+ per treatment isn't considered worth funding from public money in my country in most cases, so it's essentially the same thing. I mean obviously the difference is that transplant medicine is relatively cheap in comparison. Ideally the cost cutoff is incredibly high, but even in completely government controlled healthcare not everyone can always get treatment. My point is they are planning on giving that organ to somebody - it's not just gonna rot. It will just be somebody richer. The bar definitely shouldn't be "we'll give a treatment to THIS person but not THAT person because THIS person can afford it." If you want to say "we can't give this treatment to anybody because it would use funds that need to go to this more important and cost-effective thing" that's a TOTALLY different ball game. I mean, you can twist it around to compare them, I guess, but they're fundamentally different. KingNastidon posted:Well, it's saying "If you have the financial means to travel to US or Germany and pay for treatment out of pocket, go for it. Otherwise we aren't interested in using our limited resources (NHS funds) on you and your treatable illness." That's still worlds different from saying "we will offer this specific treatment, but only to rich people." e: And I know why they're doing it. They're making the call of "this poor person can't afford their meds to keep them alive after so they will probably die anyways and waste the organ." The root problem is that you have to pay for the drugs to keep you alive after the transplant and if you can't you just die. That poo poo won't happen in the NHS and comparing it to some super-experimental treatment for a rare disease is total bullshit. KillHour fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 17:49
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Nurge posted:The bar is always going to be somewhere though. The super expensive individually tailored therapy stuff that costs like a million+ per treatment isn't considered worth funding from public money in my country in most cases, so it's essentially the same thing. I mean obviously the difference is that transplant medicine is relatively cheap in comparison. Ideally the cost cutoff is incredibly high, but even in completely government controlled healthcare not everyone can always get treatment. Basically, if someone needs $x to live, and x is small enough that e.g. a GoFundMe could even vaguely plausibly work, then in almost any situation imaginable the state should be picking up the tab.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:49
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I read the letter as more saying that they didn't believe the patient could ensure access to post transplant treatment and medication. And, like... they're not wrong? Transplant rejection isn't a fun way to die. But who the hell can afford access to lung transplant surgery and not have access to post surgery treatment? I don't get it. Edit: like i'm not going to look up the fee tables but IIRC the surgery would cost more than the medication even if the patient lived to be 110.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:53
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pumpinglemma posted:Everything in your post is true, but I think the US way of doing it is uniquely terrible and it's important to remember that. I'd be amazed if the UK, for example, refused to pay for immunosuppressives after a heart transplant. In most countries the bar is set according to "how can we save the most QALYs given our budget", but in the US it's set according to "how can we personally make the most money". Yeah definitely there's a huge difference in the amounts of money involved. Immunosuppressants are relatively speaking really cheap medicine. I mainly wanted to point out that even with full NHS in place (I'm in Finland), they do a straight up analysis on the chance of success and the years of life extension you can expect and figure out if it's worth it to fund it if the cost is high enough. I mean it's cold as gently caress, but you have to have that evaluation at some level when the costs of treatment get really crazy. Nurge fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 17:53
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Tibalt posted:I read the letter as more saying that they didn't believe the patient could ensure access to post transplant treatment and medication. And, like... they're not wrong? Transplant rejection isn't a fun way to die. If you are on the list and an organ is available for you, you're getting that organ even if you can't pay. This was about getting on the list in the first place.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:56
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So I had a thought recently that terrified me. After Trump leaves office, there will be absolutely nothing preventing him from selling top secret information for personal profit. I mean he's already using the office of the president to enrich himself. So we can absolutely expect him to continue doing so, except this time without the constant spotlighting from the media.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:06
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enraged_camel posted:So I had a thought recently that terrified me. Seems really dubious to me. There's nothing protecting him from getting hosed for treason once he's out of office, is there?
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Nov 24, 2018 18:07
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enraged_camel posted:So I had a thought recently that terrified me. This is kind of why a treason trial and criminal punishment is necessary, among other reasons. He's a giant threat to national security more so than W because he will just blurt out to anyone who pays him the bare amount of bribes and/or flattery from an IMPORTANT PERSON.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:08
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enraged_camel posted:So I had a thought recently that terrified me. I can't imagine the CIA would appreciate that very much. Look at what they did to JFK! 
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Nov 24, 2018 18:09
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Tibalt posted:I read the letter as more saying that they didn't believe the patient could ensure access to post transplant treatment and medication. And, like... they're not wrong? Transplant rejection isn't a fun way to die. An old friend of mine died a few years back. He had gotten a kidney transplant as a kid, and was doing fine. But then he lost his job and could no longer afford the meds, so he stopped taking them, at which point his body rejected the kidney, at which point he was too sick to find a job that might give him insurance. Because he was seen as having been neglectful, he didn't qualify for a new one, and was basically just left to die.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:09
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I think part of it is that people are taking it to mean "go make a kickstarter, idk, bye" when they probably mean to contact one of the organized fundraising charities. (part of it being strange about them only caring about paying that part, not a response to the post above mine) Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 18:11
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Nurge posted:Seems really dubious to me. There's nothing protecting him from getting hosed for treason once he's out of office, is there? As far as I know, there is no precedent for a past President to be tried for treason, especially not for something like this. And it's a line that no one is going to be willing to cross, for obvious reasons. Past Presidents enjoy what amounts to Saint Status. And on the off chance that he is caught red-handed, there is a 100% chance he would be pardoned by the sitting President (for which there is precedent).
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Nov 24, 2018 18:13
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enraged_camel posted:As far as I know, there is no precedent for a past President to be tried for treason, especially not for something like this. And it's a line that no one is going to be willing to cross, for obvious reasons. Past Presidents enjoy what amounts to Saint Status. And on the off chance that he is caught red-handed, there is a 100% chance he would be pardoned by the sitting President. Trump already killed decorum and beat it in the head for two years with a shovel to make sure. I'm not so sure any more.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:15
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KillHour posted:My point is they are planning on giving that organ to somebody - it's not just gonna rot. It will just be somebody richer. It's not a super experimental treatment for a rare disease. It cleared the clinical trial threshold just like any other therapy and NHL is the most common hematological malignancy. Although yes, Yescarta is currently limited to 3L+ DLBCL subset. If a NHS system doesn't discriminate based on personal income, it will do so for other factors such as clinical biomarkers, age/fitness, etc to contain costs. There have been significant advances in the treatment of multiple myeloma over the past decade or so and many ex-US countries including the UK are still using thalidomide and other older generic drugs over clearly better novel therapies. I agree the optics of this is still better than "sry you were a social worker instead of ibanker, no heart for you" but there is some truth to rationing / death panels and reduced R&D spend given reimbursement uncertainty.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:16
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enraged_camel posted:So I had a thought recently that terrified me. I thought people were already doing that, that’s why there was such a fuss about people getting their clearance revoked
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Nov 24, 2018 18:21
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Also as a general comment there really really needs to be a show at some point that presidents actually have to take responsibility for what they do, and also what they did while in office. I understand that there's some phantom immunity currently, but it's a really bad idea. The president is just a high level bureaucrat. He is responsible to the people. He should be.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:24
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Nurge posted:This is a little late, but it absolutely will. That's hundreds of millions of savings on fuel annually for the big companies. 10% is a crazy efficiency increase. Read what I said again. They aren't a replacement for the propulsion plant which is what the OP suggested. They produce modest gains in very specfic circumstances, read the article: "Rotor sails are generally effective if the wind is moving faster than 18 kilometers per hour—roughly 10 knots—and is blowing across the ship’s bow at an angle of at least 20°. Ships often encounter such conditions on northern Pacific and northern Atlantic shipping routes, Riski says." There are other wind technologies that promise similar things like this one: https://www.skysails.info/en/skysails-marine/skysails-propulsion-for-cargo-ships/ They aren't seeing widespread use or adoption either. This is because the wind doesn't blow the nessisary direction at the nessisary speed often enough to justify the changes in route nessisary. Hurf durf I got an engine efficency gain, gently caress me I didn't follow the great circle to do it. Also how do they fair in bad weather 50+ knot winds and heavy swells that break over deck. Also where can on put them that doesn't interfere with cargo operations? If I start seeing them I'll let you all know. I have seen a single sky sail. Vessel reported they never used it. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 18:24
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BrandorKP posted:Read what I said again. They aren't a replacement for the propulsion plant which is what the OP suggested. They produce modest gains in very specfic circumstances, read the article: "Rotor sails are generally effective if the wind is moving faster than 18 kilometers per hour—roughly 10 knots—and is blowing across the ship’s bow at an angle of at least 20°. Ships often encounter such conditions on northern Pacific and northern Atlantic shipping routes, Riski says." Yeah you're correct they are not a replacement. I'm sorry. I was wrong.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:31
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Nurge posted:Also as a general comment there really really needs to be a show at some point that presidents actually have to take responsibility for what they do, and also what they did while in office. I understand that there's some phantom immunity currently, but it's a really bad idea. The president is just a high level bureaucrat. He is responsible to the people. He should be.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:36
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Lightning Knight posted:I can't imagine the CIA would appreciate that very much. Look at what they did to JFK! Helped cover up for that idiotic Secret Service guy that tripped and had his gun go off at the motocade...?
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Nov 24, 2018 18:43
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Eat all capitalists. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/11/study-over-20-years-silicon-valley-workers-median-wage-has-fallen-by-14/ quote:Study: Over 20 years, Silicon Valley workers’ median wage has fallen by 14%
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Nov 24, 2018 18:44
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regardless of whether they work in the tech sector or not
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Dont eat bad meat.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:49
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PhazonLink posted:Dont eat bad meat. On the contrary, marbled meat is good meat.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:53
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Condiv posted:
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1066388743207043072
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Nov 24, 2018 18:58
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Condiv posted:
You should really bring this to local and national media. At least some major outlets would be interested in this story, I'd think.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:12
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Zwabu posted:You should really bring this to local and national media. At least some major outlets would be interested in this story, I'd think. I've seen some tweets with the full personal information unobscured. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez reposted this with only the name showing, which might be the best way to help the lady involved.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:23
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Zwabu posted:You should really bring this to local and national media. At least some major outlets would be interested in this story, I'd think. AOC tweeted about it. https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1066351594843844608
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Nov 24, 2018 19:30
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Crow Jane posted:An old friend of mine died a few years back. He had gotten a kidney transplant as a kid, and was doing fine. But then he lost his job and could no longer afford the meds, so he stopped taking them, at which point his body rejected the kidney, at which point he was too sick to find a job that might give him insurance. Because he was seen as having been neglectful, he didn't qualify for a new one, and was basically just left to die. That's incredibly hosed up. I'm sorry about your friend. 
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Nov 24, 2018 19:34
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Crow Jane posted:An old friend of mine died a few years back. He had gotten a kidney transplant as a kid, and was doing fine. But then he lost his job and could no longer afford the meds, so he stopped taking them, at which point his body rejected the kidney, at which point he was too sick to find a job that might give him insurance. Because he was seen as having been neglectful, he didn't qualify for a new one, and was basically just left to die. America, ladies and gentlemen!
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Nov 24, 2018 19:37
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NYTimes is bad and a waste  this is a decent and darkly hilarious article fucker I'm sure Bolsonaro will remedy this because you can't deforest places that have already been scythed clean of trees this is a VERY good article, although i have some concerns that $50k a year will sound like a high enough number to some people that veteran Congressional aides shouldn't be whining edited for grammar fuckup Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 19:47
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The first thing we need to do is control the runaway price of property. People are poor because they spend so much loving money putting a roof over their head. And it would only cost the wealthy hypothetical money, as opposed to actual money. Cost of living in this country is ridiculous. Give people a choice between keeping a roof over their head or buying their medication, they'll pick the roof every time.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:47
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Zwabu posted:You should really bring this to local and national media. At least some major outlets would be interested in this story, I'd think. If the person who received this letter started a GoFundMe or something the media would cover it as a feel good story like that story they did on the kid who was selling lemonade or something to pay for his service dog.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:51
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1glitch0 posted:If the person who received this letter started a GoFundMe or something the media would cover it as a feel good story like that story they did on the kid who was selling lemonade or something to pay for his service dog. "Look at this kid's gumption! Ignore the six kids who died during this broadcast."
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Nov 24, 2018 19:53
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