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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

JfishPirate posted:

Despite the fact that Mulan seemingly is a simple movie to adapt to live action, it's projected to cost 300 million dollars, far more than any other live action remake (and only topped by 2 PoTC movies and Avengers 2 and 3, in terms of all-time highest budgets). The cost seems to largely be on constructing massive sets, which gives me a Cleopatra vibe.

https://movieweb.com/disney-mulan-remake-live-action-budget-300-million-dollars/

The last Disney movie that cost that much was Solo. :v:

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Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


The worst kind of retelling is the one that relies on rote-copying instead of re-inventing. It's the difference between bluntly translating and localizing.

Breaking Bad got a shot-for-shot remake in Colombia and it looked like one of those intentionally bad shows-within-a-show you see in comedies.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
I saw Ralph today. Let me start by saying that I love Wreck It Ralph. It such a good movie and still makes me tear up at the climax every time I watch it.

Ralph Breaks the Internet was not as good. I wouldn't go so far as to call it bad but...

My biggest concern going in was the marketing focus on "Hey you know this thing from the internet? Right?!". It really made me consider not seeing this movie because it seemed to be focused on synergy instead of a real story. Then the reviews came out and they were very positive so I went and my first assumption was not wrong.

The main story revolves around Ralph needing to buy a Sugar Rush part on eBay and to pay for it he needs to go viral on Buzztube (Youtube, although that also gets a separate mention). Meanwhile Vanellope falls in love with a GTA Online clone which is one of the few things that feels more in line with the first movie. Oh and I hope you weren't a fan of any of the other characters from the first movie. Felix and the rest are given a token side-plot that is only seen at the start and very end of the movie.

The worst part is the Disney stuff. Vanellope gets sent to OhMyDisney (which is a real thing) where we get to see all your favorite Disney characters! Hey there is Woody and Buzz! And Stormtroopers! And Iron Man! And Groot! And a Stan Lee cameo! And Eeyore! And Kermit! And Dumbo! And Grumpy! And as you know if you've seen the trailers, EVERY DISNEY PRINCESS EVER. Uggh.

I'm a fan of Disney. I like their movies. I live in Orlando and go to their parks about once a month. But this section was so bad. Just meaningless cameos and company synergy for no reason.

I could go on but I wont. The movie had no soul. In the climax of the first movie Ralph is ready to die to save everyone. In this movie Vanellope is ready to be a virus's friend to save the Internet but she doesn't have to go through with it because Ralph learns his lesson and the virus turns good. Then the Disney Princesses save Ralph's life.

Yes. The Princesses save Ralph. Thank god for the Walt Disney Company!


If you want more spoilers and thoughts than I'm willing to write this article sums up my opinion pretty well: https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/22/18104615/ralph-breaks-the-internet-explained

Shadow Hog posted:

Also the sole song was very good. Alan Menken, huh.
Yeah that was good.

Zero One fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Nov 25, 2018

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
Just got back from Wreck it Ralph 2.

Most important thing anyone interested in seeing it needs to know: they don't use the internet as an excuse to advertise to you for two hours. There's five or six scenes where the plot just stops and they go "look at all these brands!" but they're mostly short and don't really get in the way as much as you'd fear. The two biggest offenders are when they first enter the internet, and when they first go to Disney's website. Otherwise, most of the websites and brands we see are made up.

Also, I loved the princess stuff. They are all cheesy and dumb and full of nostalgia bait, and you can tell the people who worked on them had a blast. Probably the most genuine parts of the movie.

The plot was actually a big bait and switch. You think that Sugar Rush being broken is the focus, but really it's just the excuse they use to go have adventures on the internet.

The actual plot (and spoilers for the ending here) is addressing both Ralph's and Venelope's insecurities. Like, literally, the final antagonist is the personification of Ralph's insecurities, it's even called his insecurities. And the ultimate solution to the plot is having Ralph and Venelope part ways, which was a little unexpected and very bittersweet, but very mature as well. The movie actually is surprisingly nuanced when it comes to exploring their relationship and how, even though they're best friends who get along fantastically, are still holding each other back, Ralph in that he's not really making any new friends or leaving his comfort zone, and Venelope in that she's unfulfilled and wants something more than what she has. Both of their wants are opposites of what the other wants, but they both want to make the other happy, and that naturally leads to internal and external conflict. It's solid, character driven storytelling, with enough layers to make picking at it interesting, and it'll tug at your heartstrings, particularly if you're familiar with that feeling of losing someone you love.

The main plot, by comparison, is pretty bare bones. The Sugar Rush cabinet is broken! The only way to fix it is by going to the internet! Oh, they found the part! Now they need money to buy it! Oh, they made Ralph into a meme! Now they've raised enough money to buy it! ...and scene. They don't even show them getting the part, that's how incidental the main plot is to the movie, and probably the biggest indication that it's not actually all that important in comparison to Ralph and Venelope's changing dynamic, which now becomes the main plot as Ralph makes a very poor decision that, oh hey, breaks the internet. There's not even a separate B-plot like Felix's adventures in the first movie, we're with Ralph and Venelope the whole time. Also, I love that minor joke near the end where Knowsmore said one of two ways to fix the virus is to give them all a therapy session, which he discounts as impossible but is actually how they fix everything.

Beyond that, I'm still disappointed that, for a movie that's supposed to be about video games, we don't really see much outside of some retro callbacks, Sonic, and Street Fighter. Even when they go to the internet, we don't see anything new, video game-wise, which is odd since the internet is full of freaking video games. We see Slaughter Race, sure, but that isn't really referencing anything at all, like, I don't think car combat games have been popular since the late 90's, and even Burnout hasn't seen a new game in a decade. I guess video game mascots have been on the decline, nobody is screaming for Knack to make a cameo, but still, I'd have expected, like, Mario or Rayman or Crash or Spyro or freaking anyone from Smash Bros. to at least walk past the camera. Actually cameos overall are pretty minimal, kept to just the arcade and Disney's website. There's still a lot in just those two scenes, but they're contained to just those spots and the rest of the movie only has internet users and... well I guess they're called algorithms, whatever the people of the internet are that aren't users.

I do like that they didn't try to explain everything like the first movie. Everything just exists and if it's important to the plot, it'll get an explanation, but they're short and simple and don't get bogged down in technical details like the first movie did.

Overall I liked it. There's more meat on the bones and heart in the story that I was expecting going in, and it's smart to boot. But it's still very much a kids film and there's nothing here that you can't get elsewhere. See it if you're a fan of the first, skip if not, flip a coin if undecided.

Oh and Venelope's totally gay. They only ever drop hints but they're dropped from thirty stories up while tied to bricks.

JfishPirate posted:

Despite the fact that Mulan seemingly is a simple movie to adapt to live action, it's projected to cost 300 million dollars, far more than any other live action remake (and only topped by 2 PoTC movies and Avengers 2 and 3, in terms of all-time highest budgets). The cost seems to largely be on constructing massive sets, which gives me a Cleopatra vibe.

https://movieweb.com/disney-mulan-remake-live-action-budget-300-million-dollars/

they're probably willing to put that much money on the line because they know they're gonna make a killing in China

that said, this is probably the one confirmed Disney remake I'm actually interested in, since there's only gonna be one CGI character and from the sounds of things, the sets and cast are gonna be huge, which is a big plus. I'd much rather they actually have their live action remakes be live action instead of the CGI mess they've made out of most of them.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Wreck It Ralph 2 is the most creatively bankrupt film I have ever seen in my entire life. I have absolutely nothing positive to say about it whatsoever.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Narratively, just setpieces for cheap, unearned conflicts with no credibility.

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004

Worse than Bee Movie or Shark Tale?

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Uncle Wemus posted:

Worse than Bee Movie or Shark Tale?

I'm going to say, yes, actually. Definitely worse than Shark Tale. Those movies failed by virtue of trying to do things, many of which were bad things, in an attempt to produce a creative product. WIR2 is the most creatively soulless film I have ever seen in my life. The word that kept flashing in front of my eyes, real-time, was "cheap". Cheap, cheap, undeserved, false beats, one after the other.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



There is no animated movie worse than Strange Magic, The Emoji Movie, or Minions.

At least RBTI tries to be humorous and looks good. Those three don't even do that.

Strange Magic is still the worst movie I've ever seen. Bar none. That includes live action or half live action (like those animated plus live action stuff like Pixels).

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
I feel I need to whip out my quality/interest animated pictures dual axes graph again at some point, because in a way "Is it worse than Shark Tale?" is asking two questions.

I haven't seen Minions, but without having seen it, I know I'd stick WIR2 in with it. Probably tons of technical competence to produce something with absolutely zero artistic merit. Meanwhile, Strange Magic is loving bad, bad, quality bad, but watching it I was like "oooohhh poo poo what's going to happen next?!" because it was gripping in its audacious badness.

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!
Does this mean we might get a Bee Movie style look into Wreck it Ralph 2?

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


ThermoPhysical posted:

There is no animated movie worse than Strange Magic, The Emoji Movie, or Minions.

At least RBTI tries to be humorous and looks good. Those three don't even do that.

Strange Magic is still the worst movie I've ever seen. Bar none. That includes live action or half live action (like those animated plus live action stuff like Pixels).

I'm willing to go to bat for Minions. Minions is a good movie.

I'm not too fond of the Despicable Me film series, and in any other setting I hate the minions whenever they show up. So, you can imagine my surprise when A) some people who's opinions in regards to films I really respect claimed the Minions movie was actually very enjoyable and B) I also went and watched it and discovered that I liked it and laughed a lot. Minions is extremely good at being exactly what it wants to be, and what it wants to be is series of loosely connected Looney Tunes styled comedy sketches. It's only goal is too be funny, and it succeeds. I know humor is subjective, but if you like physical comedy and fast paced sight gags then this is the movie for you. Also, the main antagonists of the movie Scarlet Overkill and her husband Herb are surprisingly good characters and super fun every time they're on screen.

I still don't like Minions in general, but The Minions Movie is definitely worth watching.

Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 26, 2018

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Im not going to call the minions movie great or something but its serviceable as far as origin stories go because the "origin" part is about a 15 second long gag at the end of the movie and the rest of the film is weird little vignettes with a highlight being the all-american crime family shoot out with the cops near the start.

Its not particularly gorgeous or moving or inventive, but its functional and unlike Despicable Me 2 isnt full of regressive ideology that makes you lust for executive producer death

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




Plus a moral that isn’t just contradicted by the first movie, but by it’s own opening sequence.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
I'm gonna see WIR2 today and I'll probably like it and product placement is fine and Knowsmore should've just been Google

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Barudak posted:

Its not particularly gorgeous or moving or inventive, but its functional and unlike Despicable Me 2 isnt full of regressive ideology that makes you lust for executive producer death

Wait, is this the "families need a mom" concept or something else? I assume the former but in this age we live in I wouldn't be surprised if there was some fascist element that I somehow missed.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Thanks, guys! I can now safely put WIR2 below Minions.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

paradoxGentleman posted:

Wait, is this the "families need a mom" concept or something else? I assume the former but in this age we live in I wouldn't be surprised if there was some fascist element that I somehow missed.

It's also incredibly racist, I find it weird that could escape any viewer.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



Pick posted:

It's also incredibly racist, I find it weird that could escape any viewer.

I fell asleep in DM2 (it was that boring), how was it racist?

Das Boo
Jun 9, 2011

There was a GHOST here.
It's gone now.
I'm working on the tie-in show for a movie coming out next year and we've got Minionesque characters and I'm mad as hell. I blame Minions and their loving success for my suffering.

A POX. A POX.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde

Das Boo posted:

I'm working on the tie-in show for a movie coming out next year and we've got Minionesque characters and I'm mad as hell. I blame Minions and their loving success for my suffering.

A POX. A POX.

I know you can't say, but I'm going to guess either the tiny snowmen from Frozen, or the green squeeky aliens from Toy Story.

Supersonic Shine
Oct 13, 2012

Beachcomber posted:

I know you can't say, but I'm going to guess either the tiny snowmen from Frozen, or the green squeeky aliens from Toy Story.
I haven't so much as clicked on a link to the Toy Story 4 trailer, but the thought of the little green men becoming Minion ripoffs makes knots in my stomach.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





My biggest issue with WIR2 is that Ralph's heel turn (which is one of the movie's better ideas) just makes no goddamned sense with the ultimate resolution to that ending.

There's one of those cliche scenes where he overhears Vanellope talking about what she wants and how she feels about Ralph, but unlike every other time that trope occurs, he gets to hear the whole thing. He hears her waffling and her concern for his feelings and her pain. The entire discussion was focused solely on her conflicting feelings between what she wanted and what Ralph wanted. He was never, not once, not the focus of the conversation.

But instead of following through with that, and talking to her and working through it, he just decides he's going to wreck things. Ralph is always portrayed as pretty dumb, but the whole thing wasn't dumb. It's a willful ignorance cranked to 11.

It didn't set right with me, and while the end--where they part ways--is a great idea, I feel like their continued friendship was completely unrealistic and undeserved. The resolution is the "oh you just misunderstood, I forgive you for being an idiot, try not to be an idiot next time" resolution, not the "oh you deliberately and willfully decided to gently caress up my life and wreck my dreams because you are a giant manbaby" resolution.


The more I talk about it, the more that whole plot line pisses me off. And since it's the main plot of the last half of the movie, ugh.

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!
Buglord

ConfusedUs posted:

My biggest issue with WIR2 is that Ralph's heel turn (which is one of the movie's better ideas) just makes no goddamned sense with the ultimate resolution to that ending.

There's one of those cliche scenes where he overhears Vanellope talking about what she wants and how she feels about Ralph, but unlike every other time that trope occurs, he gets to hear the whole thing. He hears her waffling and her concern for his feelings and her pain. The entire discussion was focused solely on her conflicting feelings between what she wanted and what Ralph wanted. He was never, not once, not the focus of the conversation.

But instead of following through with that, and talking to her and working through it, he just decides he's going to wreck things. Ralph is always portrayed as pretty dumb, but the whole thing wasn't dumb. It's a willful ignorance cranked to 11.

It didn't set right with me, and while the end--where they part ways--is a great idea, I feel like their continued friendship was completely unrealistic and undeserved. The resolution is the "oh you just misunderstood, I forgive you for being an idiot, try not to be an idiot next time" resolution, not the "oh you deliberately and willfully decided to gently caress up my life and wreck my dreams because you are a giant manbaby" resolution.


The more I talk about it, the more that whole plot line pisses me off. And since it's the main plot of the last half of the movie, ugh.

This came across to me as Ralph hearing what he wanted to hear in the conversation and discarding the rest by going inward with feelings of betrayal and anger. It specifically is willfully ignorant. The whole movie is coming from an angle of Ralph being so incredibly comfortable with his life and his friendship that he wants it to remain the same forever, refusing to accept another person's (even Vanellope's) wishes when it comes to his plans that include others. It's a selfish and needy reaction that you often do see in children and some adults, and especially in adults can be extremely dangerous and toxic. Ralph redeems himself because after seeing the damage he's caused he takes a step back and reflects on his actions and how he's hurt people, accepts Vanellope's wishes, and makes amends. This is the moral that the film really is trying to push at the viewer, because there's a ton of toxic people out there that need to understand the message. Without input they reach the step of smothering and harm but lack the ability to reflect for whatever reason and delve further into harmful behavior.

I dunno, I liked it. It certainly wasn't the best WDAS film, but it worked for me.

Shadow Hog
Feb 23, 2014

Avatar by Jon Davies
Basically I thought it was on par with most Pixar sequels, if that makes any sense. Largely unnecessary, but solid enough for what it is. Well above Cars 2, though I'd certainly put it well below the Toy Story sequels.

At any rate, there is no way I would prefer to watch Bee Movie over this. (...though I admit I haven't seen Bee Movie yet, so perhaps I'm wrong.)

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.
Strange Magic and Bee Movie are better by accident than the vast majority of animated features of the last 8 years could be on purpose.

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008

It's sounding like WiR2 is in the same category as The Good Dinosaur--a nice tech demo that's not offensively bad, but there's nothing really good to say about it, so it's just kind of there. But unlike The Good Dinosaur, which seemed to disappear overnight, Ralph got a truly massive marketing push, so it doesn't even get the benefit of being forgotten.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
I just got back from seeing it and just as I figured this post:

Pick posted:

Wreck It Ralph 2 is the most creatively bankrupt film I have ever seen in my entire life.

Is nonsense.

PierreTheMime posted:

This came across to me as Ralph hearing what he wanted to hear in the conversation and discarding the rest by going inward with feelings of betrayal and anger. It specifically is willfully ignorant. The whole movie is coming from an angle of Ralph being so incredibly comfortable with his life and his friendship that he wants it to remain the same forever, refusing to accept another person's (even Vanellope's) wishes when it comes to his plans that include others. It's a selfish and needy reaction that you often do see in children and some adults, and especially in adults can be extremely dangerous and toxic. Ralph redeems himself because after seeing the damage he's caused he takes a step back and reflects on his actions and how he's hurt people, accepts Vanellope's wishes, and makes amends. This is the moral that the film really is trying to push at the viewer, because there's a ton of toxic people out there that need to understand the message. Without input they reach the step of smothering and harm but lack the ability to reflect for whatever reason and delve further into harmful behavior.

I dunno, I liked it. It certainly wasn't the best WDAS film, but it worked for me.

Yeah I agree with all this. The theme of the movie here resonated way more than the first movie, although I do think the first movie was overall better. I still though this was great. My parents got divorced when I was a kid, I moved away from old friends. I moved away from friends later in life too. I've had a long distance relationship before. I moved away from friends literally a year ago too and so a lot of what the movie was trying to do and say resonated with me a TON and I could see a lot in Ralph that I remembered feeling and I dunno that whole thing felt a lot more real to me than what the first movie's.

I loved some of the stuff they did in this movie, especially the Akira-esque Ralph abomination near the end where a bunch of virus Ralphs are wriggling around the big Ralph mass so it's constantly moving. Shank and Yesss are both fun characters with awesome designs. Yesss especially design wise feels like a character designed by a much newer and younger group of animators. And plenty of the movie feels that way too. Also the "comments" section part was interesting to me because as someone who uses the internet a lot, and watches a lot of youtube and follows twitter, it was interseting seeing the very real "don't read the comment" thing in a big animated Disney movie. Also I saw several real life Disney artists twitter avatars up there which I thought was cute. Also does anyone else feel like the general animation in this movie compared to other recent Disney movies feels a lot more fun and loose? Like Spamley and his little assistant and Yesss were tons of fun to just watch movie around and do things. Even Vanellope and Ralph seemed way more animated than the original movie.

The princess stuff was just a ton of fun, especially cause it eventually led into an actually musical number sung by Vanellope and the Slaughter Race characters. I also loved the very end when the princesses saved Ralph from falling using all their abilities. Just watching them do all their things together was super fun and I also loved the gag immediately beforehand where the movie makes you think Spamley is gonna save Ralph but his big rear end just breaks right through Spamley's car.

Overall I think the first movie is generally better but I had a ton of fun in this movie and the theme resonated with me way more.

Literally the only real big issue I had was that the virus was literally called the "insecurity virus" and that was a little bit... too on the nose that I think that should've gotten a second pass in the writer's room. Like at least say the virus is some kind of vulnerability exploit virus so it feels more like an actual computer thing and not an "insecurity virus". The animation on the virus is awesome too

Regarding it being a giant commercial or whatever: I am someone that DOES NOT CARE about product placement in movies. At all. Products exist in every direction I look in real life at all waking hours of the day, seeing a real life product in a movie doesn't even cross my mind. Knowsmore and Buzzztube took me out of the movie way more than if they had literally just been a part of Google and Youtube. Which both of those are also in the movie just as separate things. I would've preferred the Knowsmore guy just simply being Google Image Search. Keep the guy so Alan Tudyk continues to get his cameos :v: But it's hard to find an issue with having Google and Amazon and Youtube and Twitter show up while they're in the internet when actual real arcade cabinets that exist in real life are in the movie at the same time. I think it's weird to have an issue with the former but not the latter. Also Sonic the Hedgehog is very knowledgeable about the internet and I find that very funny.

Precambrian posted:

It's sounding like WiR2 is in the same category as The Good Dinosaur--a nice tech demo that's not offensively bad, but there's nothing really good to say about it, so it's just kind of there. But unlike The Good Dinosaur, which seemed to disappear overnight, Ralph got a truly massive marketing push, so it doesn't even get the benefit of being forgotten.

Uh no way, The Good Dinosaur is a nothing movie. I would never compare this to The Good Dinosaur. I actually liked this movie a ton.

Oh there is just one other thing I didn't like: I don't know if anyone else here had this, but before the movie started there was a like minute long "we appreciate you for watching, thank you" message from the 3 real life producers of the movie and that felt REALLY weird and out of place. Also there were two Toy Story 4 trailers and I could've done without that as well :v:

Das Boo posted:

I'm working on the tie-in show for a movie coming out next year and we've got Minionesque characters and I'm mad as hell. I blame Minions and their loving success for my suffering.

A POX. A POX.

I'm going to guess this is either the spy pigeon movie or the fantasy theme park movie. And the minion esque characters are the beavers

EDIT: Oh yeah two other things 1) They make Ariel seem like a crazy person which is pretty funny and 2) someone mentioned about Vanellope being hinted at being gay. I can kind of see that angle though idk for sure :shrug:

Macaluso fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Nov 26, 2018

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

everyone forgets about the Rabbids man

I blew some minds at work when we were having a discussion of how annoying it is that Illumination has the rights to make a Mario movie when I told everyone that if you take a minion and just grey it up, add some ears and another eye and you have a Rabbid, and they existed years before.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

DC Murderverse posted:

everyone forgets about the Rabbids man

I blew some minds at work when we were having a discussion of how annoying it is that Illumination has the rights to make a Mario movie when I told everyone that if you take a minion and just grey it up, add some ears and another eye and you have a Rabbid, and they existed years before.

The Rabbids were in one of the best games I played last year and were also quite endearing so they've got Minions beat on that one

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice

Macaluso posted:

I am someone that DOES NOT CARE about product placement in movies. At all. Products exist in every direction I look in real life at all waking hours of the day, seeing a real life product in a movie doesn't even cross my mind.

I actually really, super enjoyed what I saw in Into the Spider-Verse's trailer. The part where Miles swings by a billboard and it says "Koca-Soda" in a familliar font. When I first saw that, I immediately knew what it was riffing on, and I figured it was just referencing a brand while still remaining legally distinct. Then, in a later trailer, we see Peter swinging by the same billboard, and it actually does have the Coca-Cola logo. I thought that was a really neat way to incorporate brand placement and serve the story at the same time. It punctuates that Miles is from a universe similar to ours, but with some fundamental differences. It's obvious product placement, yeah, but it has a purpose. I thought that was neat.

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004

What in the hell is strange magic?

Edit: oh god when did this happen?

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008

by Modern Video Games

Uncle Wemus posted:

What in the hell is strange magic?

Edit: oh god when did this happen?

George Lucas’s last ditch attempt to destroy western civilization.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice

porfiria posted:

George Lucas’s last ditch attempt to destroy western civilization.

Evidently he succeeded.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Macaluso posted:

The Rabbids were in one of the best games I played last year and were also quite endearing so they've got Minions beat on that one

Mario Rabbids Kingdom Battle is a shining jewel of a game that shouldn't exist but somehow does. I don't know how the hell they convinced Nintendo to let them do some of the things they did, especially with Rabbid Peach.

But it is glorious.

PierreTheMime posted:

This came across to me as Ralph hearing what he wanted to hear in the conversation and discarding the rest by going inward with feelings of betrayal and anger. It specifically is willfully ignorant. The whole movie is coming from an angle of Ralph being so incredibly comfortable with his life and his friendship that he wants it to remain the same forever, refusing to accept another person's (even Vanellope's) wishes when it comes to his plans that include others. It's a selfish and needy reaction that you often do see in children and some adults, and especially in adults can be extremely dangerous and toxic.


Ralph redeems himself because after seeing the damage he's caused he takes a step back and reflects on his actions and how he's hurt people, accepts Vanellope's wishes, and makes amends. This is the moral that the film really is trying to push at the viewer, because there's a ton of toxic people out there that need to understand the message. Without input they reach the step of smothering and harm but lack the ability to reflect for whatever reason and delve further into harmful behavior.


I dunno, I liked it. It certainly wasn't the best WDAS film, but it worked for me.

I split your post into two parts because I absolutely understand the first part.

However, I fully disagree that Ralph redeems himself. He gets out of this huge mess by, essentially, saying he's sorry. I don't believe that sorry is good enough in a situation like this. Sorry is what you say when you misunderstand, make a mistake, hurt someone a little. It's not what you say when you nearly get your friend killed. It's not what you say when the only reason your actions don't have permanent consequences is sheer luck outside your control. Or rather, while you can say it, it shouldn't be enough.

The resolution is literally V sacrificing herself and her happiness to stop the rampaging monster. That's not something a relationship should bounce back from because "I'm sorry." Ralph is lying, controlling, and manipulative.

You see it as Ralph learning to let go. I see it as an abusive jackhole getting off soft for convenient narrative reasons.


I will, however, admit that I'm going through a divorce from an emotionally abusive, gaslighting spouse, and I may be projecting a little.

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!
Buglord

ConfusedUs posted:

The resolution is literally V sacrificing herself and her happiness to stop the rampaging monster. That's not something a relationship should bounce back from because "I'm sorry." Ralph is lying, controlling, and manipulative.

You see it as Ralph learning to let go. I see it as an abusive jackhole getting off soft for convenient narrative reasons.

That’s not the resolution, though. The resolution is Ralph seeing Vanellope sacrifice her happiness for his and him realizing how miserable he’s making her. He sees in a very real and over-the-top way the manifestation of his desire and its effect on his friend. His acceptance that he must let go is what resolves the “insecurity” flaw.

Ralph lied and manipulated things to achieve his goal and in the end realized that his actions were wrong. Strong friendships can survive these types of things if they’re open and willing to change.

Sorry to hear about your current situation though. Those types of ordeals are always a struggle, I hope it works out for the better.

Shadow Hog
Feb 23, 2014

Avatar by Jon Davies

Precambrian posted:

It's sounding like WiR2 is in the same category as The Good Dinosaur--a nice tech demo that's not offensively bad, but there's nothing really good to say about it, so it's just kind of there. But unlike The Good Dinosaur, which seemed to disappear overnight, Ralph got a truly massive marketing push, so it doesn't even get the benefit of being forgotten.
Nah, The Good Dinosaur has plenty of narrative problems that bothered me not long after I finished watching it. Whatever problems WIR2 has, they're not even close to the same level.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

ConfusedUs posted:

However, I fully disagree that Ralph redeems himself. He gets out of this huge mess by, essentially, saying he's sorry. I don't believe that sorry is good enough in a situation like this. Sorry is what you say when you misunderstand, make a mistake, hurt someone a little. It's not what you say when you nearly get your friend killed. It's not what you say when the only reason your actions don't have permanent consequences is sheer luck outside your control. Or rather, while you can say it, it shouldn't be enough.

The resolution is literally V sacrificing herself and her happiness to stop the rampaging monster. That's not something a relationship should bounce back from because "I'm sorry." Ralph is lying, controlling, and manipulative.

You see it as Ralph learning to let go. I see it as an abusive jackhole getting off soft for convenient narrative reasons.


I will, however, admit that I'm going through a divorce from an emotionally abusive, gaslighting spouse, and I may be projecting a little.

This is kind of my problem with redemption plots in general, that the main character is always forgiven by the people they've wronged the most and all is well in the end. Most of the time that's not how it works in real life; yes, you can redeem yourself from horrible mistakes and become a better person, but with new prospects and new relationships. In both life and in writing it's an easy mistake to focus on patching up one ruined relationship rather than move on to a fresh one without any baggage, since simply moving on is inherently anticlimactic.

One thing I actually like about Cars is that it's almost entirely about the redemption process and building relationships with new people. It starts with the protagonist at his worst and he spends the whole movie becoming a better person and being forgiven, rather than spending most of the movie screwing up with his biggest mistake setting off the climax.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Oh boo hoo hoo a lot of people in here who think their hurt feelings are worthy of lifelong grudges if they couch it in nu-turd terms.

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Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Pick posted:

Oh boo hoo hoo a lot of people in here who think their hurt feelings are worthy of lifelong grudges if they couch it in nu-turd terms.

Are you okay Pick

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