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Radish posted:The concept of people always voting Democratic no matter what in the general (which the idea of Democrats abandoning the primary was in response to) is just as unlikely to happen so both are hypothetical situations. I don't think it's the same. "Always vote blue" as a strategy is not binary; convincing all the electorate to follow that is not possible, but convincing some of the electorate is; considering the electoral margins even a 1% or 2% swing would be noticeable, and that's not impossible. Whereas either you have primaries* or you don't, no middle results. *how do caucuses slot in here? Do they fall under the primary umbrella? I do recall those being a thing in some states during the presidential primaries.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:47
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Your Boy Fancy posted:It means you’re arguing a hypothetical and insisting that your hypothetical is fact. It isn’t. I'm not, but thanks for playing I guess? Omobono posted:I don't know about Rust Martialis, but from an outsider's perspective primaries seem so entrenched in the USA political landscape that even if it's not against the law of physics, I really don't see an American party removing them. And why exactly is it impossible? This is important, so give it some thought.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:49
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CAROL posted:Can’t believe you post this dumb poo poo evoking donald j trumps “many sides” rhetoric instead of spending time with your 10 year old son. Dude just posted like 15 paragraphs and this is the lazy poo poo you post. C’mon. Bubbacub posted:IIRC, there are no emissions regulations in international waters. Big cargo ships burn horrendously dirty (cheap) fuel in the mid ocean, then switch to cleaner fuel when they get to coastal waters. I remember hearing this and wondering why we can’t just have government shipping for anything bigger than X tons of ship, make them with nuclear reactors like our aircraft carriers and boom, huge step in the right direction. It’s so goddamn frustrating. We have all this loving money and don’t do poo poo with it besides blowing up brown people. I’m being facetious, because we do some good things but poo poo, if we had the couple trillion from Iraq/Afghanistan it’d be cake.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:54
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Ripoff posted:This social credit poo poo is 100% coming to the US as soon as the 1% and corporate boards of directors realize you can monetize it via tying your social credit to the rent you pay and/or interest rates you receive and pay. Not to mention the money that “fixers” will make to improve Skylyr’s score when he was caught stealing or vandalizing something at school, so he can still get into an Ivy League (while the other kid that was present gets hosed out of attending college for the rest of their life). No freaking way this happens. It will be perceived by the left as Jim Crowe and the religious right as the mark of The Beast. The non-religious right (Reddit, 4Chan, et al) care deeply about their anonymity and "right" to be shitheads to other people online without consequences. The fact that it came out of China would be the nail in the coffin. Everyone is already terrified of it.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:57
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KillHour posted:No freaking way this happens. It will be perceived by the left as Jim Crowe and the religious right as the mark of The Beast. The non-religious right (Reddit, 4Chan, et al) care deeply about their anonymity and "right" to be shitheads to other people online without consequences. But the corporate centre will push it like it's their goddamn baby.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:00
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Omobono posted:
The answer is sorta, they are almost vestigial part of American politics where you supposedly get a bunch of like minded people in a room together and say this is our candidate. They are used mostly in the midwest and rocky mountain states because of their size to people ratio, leftover from when it was hard to travel anywhere in a few days. The issue caucuses have is that they are easily gamed and don't usually reflect the populous or party writ large.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:But the corporate centre will push it like it's their goddamn baby. This is something that the Silicon Valley techbros have been wanting to do since "Down And Out In The Magic Kingdom". Second Life's early reputation system was basically a proof of model concept of the Whuffie, and you can see it elsewhere in social media today.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:03
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KillHour posted:No freaking way this happens. It will be perceived by the left as Jim Crowe and the religious right as the mark of The Beast. The non-religious right (Reddit, 4Chan, et al) care deeply about their anonymity and "right" to be shitheads to other people online without consequences. If the religious right is told that it's being done to gently caress over minorities they will jump on board immediately. The fundamental ideology of American evangelical Christianity is racism. The nonreligious right wing nerds haven't abandoned the right after net neutrality which they supposedly cared about so I don't see why they would after this. Right wingers can get on board any oppressive government or private overreach as long as they figure someone else will get it worse.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:03
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Cerebral Bore posted:And why exactly is it impossible? This is important, so give it some thought. Considering that in the post you quoted I stated twice that it's not impossible, how is this answer relevant? Why should explain a fact I believe to be untrue? Oh wait, you're just arguing in bad faith. Nevermind, no further questions.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:04
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Omobono posted:Considering that in the post you quoted I stated twice that it's not impossible, how is this answer relevant? Why should explain a fact I believe to be untrue? So it's clearly impossible, but you can't even explain why? And I'm supposedly the one arguing in bad faith here?
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Nov 25, 2018 17:07
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https://twitter.com/DamianCollins/status/1066724649332035584 i like how facebook is making public statements about how parliament must abide by the california court's protective order and this MP is like "haha no also we might publish them if we feel like it"
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Nov 25, 2018 17:12
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Radish posted:If the religious right is told that it's being done to gently caress over minorities they will jump on board immediately. The fundamental ideology of American evangelical Christianity is racism. The nonreligious right wing nerds haven't abandoned the right after net neutrality which they supposedly cared about so I don't see why they would after this. If this were true, we'd all be forced to carry around a national ID and have to use it to shop or buy gas like in Israel. I grew up around hard right religious people. They would never accept any form of nationalized identification, especially one that tracked their behavior. Besides, we already have a defacto one with our Facebooks and Apple IDs so why would the government bother? They can just get a secret court order to look at those.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:14
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KillHour posted:If this were true, we'd all be forced to carry around a national ID and have to use it to shop or buy gas like in Israel. I grew up around hard right religious people. They would never accept any form of nationalized identification, especially one that tracked their behavior. Besides, we already have a defacto one with our Facebooks and Apple IDs so why would the government bother? They can just get a secret court order to look at those. Just call them Patriot Passports or whatever.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Just call them Patriot Passports or whatever. I know this is a joke, but don't make the classic mistake of imagining your enemy to be stupid.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm not, but thanks for playing I guess? You’re pushing an idea that the Democratic Party will stop running primaries entirely, despite precisely zero indication that this is something anyone has pushed except you. You’re then using that as proof that anyone who disagrees is either foolish or disingenuous. Considering superdelegates have already been neutered in recent memory, yes, you’re arguing a hypothetical. There’s enough reality to bang on Democrats for, and here you are making poo poo up to be angry about. It’s not impossible, of course, but show your work if you’re gonna throw the idea out there. Show us where primaries have been eliminated, or any party official has floated the idea, and we can start from there.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:16
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Cerebral Bore posted:So it's clearly impossible, but you can't even explain why? And I'm supposedly the one arguing in bad faith here? There was a discussion of how people should vote left in the primary then Democratic in the general, and you barged in with your "thought experiment" of "well what if they cancelled the primaries then?" that literally nobody but *you* wanted to talk about because it's like interrupting a discussion of treatments for hay fever with "well what about blowing your head off with a shotgun?" Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 17:21
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Rust Martialis posted:And if your mother had wheels, she'd be a garbage truck. You can posit all the hypotheticals you like but don't be ridiculous. USPOL Winter: if the thread had wheels, it'd be a garbage truck
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Nov 25, 2018 17:23
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https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1066727749144973314/ It's honestly amazing just how little he actually knows about money
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Nov 25, 2018 17:24
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eke out posted:USPOL Winter: if the thread had wheels, it'd be a garbage truck Instead it is just a pile of trash.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:25
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Your Boy Fancy posted:You’re pushing an idea that the Democratic Party will stop running primaries entirely, despite precisely zero indication that this is something anyone has pushed except you. You’re then using that as proof that anyone who disagrees is either foolish or disingenuous. Considering superdelegates have already been neutered in recent memory, yes, you’re arguing a hypothetical. There’s enough reality to bang on Democrats for, and here you are making poo poo up to be angry about. It's an ideology our country was founded on, that it needs checks and balances or otherwise an individual branch would tend toward tyranny; the same logic applies toward competition between two parties being the only thing keeping them in check. Primaries started when the party went so far away from what the electorate wanted that they lost, and the memory of it keeps them in check. https://www.vox.com/a/presidential-primaries-2016-republican-democrat/1968-scandal
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Nov 25, 2018 17:26
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eke out posted:while this is by no means a friendly opinion, i'm kinda impressed this judge managed to restrain himself from including any "but seriously, gently caress you for lying to the court about how sorry you were and then turning around and telling everyone pleading guilty was the biggest mistake of your life" bits the guy that met with him and started the russia conversation, who at one point was presumed dead cause he went missing for a year, suddenly turned up and thru his lawyer wants to meet with the senate and admit he was working for the fbi. I would try to delay too, and see if his testimony gets me out of jail time too.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:31
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Instead it is just a pile of trash. It's a garbage truck up on blocks in someone's yard
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Nov 25, 2018 17:32
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eke out posted:USPOL Winter: if the thread had wheels, it'd be a garbage truck Mods, please
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Nov 25, 2018 17:32
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1066727749144973314/ Maybe like 100 pages ago I did some simple math to illustrate how the ultra rich are, in fact, far richer than people realize. This is a symptom: Trump had so much money dropped in his lap as a small child that paltry salaries like $200,000 are essentially meaningless to him. Throw the rich out of government. Their wealth has made them incapable of understanding the lives and needs of ordinary people.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:33
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:This is a symptom: Trump had so much money dropped in his lap as a small child that paltry salaries like $200,000 are essentially meaningless to him. well not trump specifically because he's widely known for being insanely cheap in every way, but the point stands yes
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Nov 25, 2018 17:34
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Your Boy Fancy posted:You’re pushing an idea that the Democratic Party will stop running primaries entirely, despite precisely zero indication that this is something anyone has pushed except you. You’re then using that as proof that anyone who disagrees is either foolish or disingenuous. Considering superdelegates have already been neutered in recent memory, yes, you’re arguing a hypothetical. There’s enough reality to bang on Democrats for, and here you are making poo poo up to be angry about. Uh, yeah, I'm positing a hypothetical situation and I'm arguing that the Democrats would in fact try to abolish the primaries provided said situation were to arise. This is what hypotheticals are for, and your claim that I'm somehow arguing that said hypothetical is actually reality today is absurd on its face. Furthermore I'm arguing that said situation would arise if this whole "always vote Dem no matter what" principle was universally or even near-universally followed in order to show that said principle is incompatible with actually being able to push the Democratic party to the left by way of primary elections. This shouldn't be hard to follow. Rust Martialis posted:There was a discussion of how people should course left in the primary then Democratic in the general, and you barged in with your "thought experiment" of "well what if they cancelled the primaries then?" that literally nobody but *you* wanted to talk about because it's like interrupting a discussion of treatments for hay fever with "well what about blowing your head off with a shotgun?" Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if people are arguing for two different ideas, then the counterpoint that said ideas actually contradict each other seems pretty loving germane to the discussion, pal.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:35
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:Maybe like 100 pages ago I did some simple math to illustrate how the ultra rich are, in fact, far richer than people realize. This is why I laugh when people prasie him for donating his salary. "HE'S SO SELFLESS HE'S DOING THIS JOB FOR FREE!!" gently caress you.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:36
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Young Freud posted:
AND if you have a felony conviction, you can't get a job, or in some states exercise rights like voting. The background check is already deciding your fate in America.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:37
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Roland Jones posted:Why do some people immediately start whining about "the left eating itself" and "circular firing squads" whenever the thread isn't in perfect agreement? It almost feels disingenuous sometimes, like an attempt to shut down people they don't want to hear. That, or they're terrified that any disagreement will guarantee Republican rule if not squashed immediately, which would be an unhealthy mindset to have, to say the least. Because posters are attacking each other across multiple posts and pages. It's not even a discussion where one tries to explain their opinions anymore, just invectives thrown back and forth.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:48
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$200,000 is actually not all that “much” in terms of salary - a senior coder in Silicon Valley could make that. Since politicians like Kelly are rubbing shoulders with the super-rich like Trump, they can be highly tempted by dirty dealings on the side to make some extra cash. Bernie Sanders is unique in not being any richer than you’d suppose after drawing a Senator’s salary for many years (I.e. quite comfortable)
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Nov 25, 2018 17:50
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KillHour posted:If this were true, we'd all be forced to carry around a national ID and have to use it to shop or buy gas like in Israel. I grew up around hard right religious people. They would never accept any form of nationalized identification, especially one that tracked their behavior. Besides, we already have a defacto one with our Facebooks and Apple IDs so why would the government bother? They can just get a secret court order to look at those. They don't need it because Jim Crow and Jim Crow 2.0 have been working pretty well to oppress minorities. If they needed a national ID to start oppressing people they would change their tune immediately. Gun rights got curtailed in California by Republicans because of the Black Panthers and the political Religious Right became a thing because of school integration. What they claim to REALLY care about now is meaningless since fundamentally they only care about racism and the rest of their public ideology is incredibly malleable to fit that. Three years ago people were saying Trump couldn't win over religious conservatives since he's aggressively against all of their values and every Christian voting bloc went for him. What hard right religious people tell you they care about has nothing to do with what they actually care about. Your Taint posted:This is why I laugh when people prasie him for donating his salary. "HE'S SO SELFLESS HE'S DOING THIS JOB FOR FREE!!" gently caress you. The message that throwing out his salary is some intrinsic good is outrageous since it makes the argument that somehow a rich person is better than a poor person because of that "magnanimity." It's the same bulllshit they are throwing at AOC right now because she struggled with money as a service worker unlike her wealthy peers in Congress that clearly are better since they are rich and don't understand economic struggle. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 17:51
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I doubt he would actually do it, but closing the Southern border completely would be a huge clusterfuck and businesses would riot.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:I doubt he would actually do it, but closing the Southern border completely would be a huge clusterfuck and businesses would riot. I'm sure everyone is going to be thrilled when cheap fruits and vegetables begin to skyrocket in price
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Nov 25, 2018 17:56
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Cerebral Bore posted:If they could do so without any backlash, then why wouldn't they? I know I’m late but this seems slightly absurd, not in that I doubt they would if they thought that they could get away with it I suppose, but that I don’t think we’re close to that point. That’s the kind of thing that would happen if the comfort of the powerful was legitimately threatened, which we aren’t at yet. The kind of language they use against Corbyn, including the threat of military coup, is more in line here I think. The American left isn’t that powerful yet.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:00
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Radish posted:They don't need it because Jim Crow and Jim Crow 2.0 have been working pretty well to oppress minorities. If they needed a national ID to start oppressing people they would change their tune immediately. The problem with this logic is I wasn't the dirty liberal they were lying about their beliefs to. I was the good Christian kid they were trying to pass their beliefs on to. If they didn't really care about a national ID, they wouldn't have spent such an insane amount of time telling their children how evil it was. Beliefs don't pass down through osmosis and as someone who grew up around these people, trust me when I say I know what they actually believe. They actually believe that the devil is real and is trying to trick them into betraying God. They think that Jesus will come back, but only if they figure out the secret decoder ring correctly. They believe people choose to be good or evil and if they are good, they will be rich and if they are evil, they will be poor (unless God is testing their faith, of course). Oh, and they believe evil people who are rich got that way by selling their soul to the devil. The racism isn't the core belief here - the just world fallacy is. Being racist is how they resolve the cognitive dissonance of a group of people being poor as a whole, while still believing that God takes care of good people: those people must just not be as good. TL;DR: If you didn't grow up surrounded by fundies, you don't understand them any more than I understand what it's like to grow up in Sub-Saharan Africa and it's just as lovely of you to come in here and 'explain' their motivations as it would be for me to do the same with a minority group.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:11
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Bubbacub posted:E: the 15 biggest cargo ships put our the same greenhouse gas emissions as all the cars in the world. So it’s really a big loving deal
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Nov 25, 2018 18:16
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Radish posted:What hard right religious people tell you they care about has nothing to do with what they actually care about. The anti abortion folk got what they wanted, a supreme court judge.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:18
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BarbarianElephant posted:$200,000 is actually not all that “much” in terms of salary - a senior coder in Silicon Valley could make that. Since politicians like Kelly are rubbing shoulders with the super-rich like Trump, they can be highly tempted by dirty dealings on the side to make some extra cash. Bernie Sanders is unique in not being any richer than you’d suppose after drawing a Senator’s salary for many years (I.e. quite comfortable) Isn't the median salary for millennials like 30k? I was happy when I was making 15k ffs.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:21
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Cefte posted:No, they don't. They emit equivalent sulphur and nitrogen oxides, because auto fuel is highly regulated regarding those specific compounds. They don't move the needle compared to total auto greenhouse emissions . Yep some marine bunkers are so unrefined one can walk on them when they aren't heated. I see a lot more LS fuels now than a decade ago, mostly due to SOLAS amendments and emissions laws.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:23
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BrandorKP posted:The anti abortion folk got what they wanted, a supreme court judge. Ding ding ding ding. I'm not exaggerating when I say pro-lifers literally see abortion as the second Holocaust. They add abortion numbers to death totals. I used to be pro-life, and this is how I won arguments - if you frame every abortion as a death, abortion looks like an absolutely massive problem. The CDC posted:In 2015, 638,169 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2015 was 11.8 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 188 abortions per 1,000 live births. That says almost 20% of all pregnancies end in abortion. Now, to the vast majority of people on this site, that's like saying 20% of cars are blue - who cares? But to a group of people who believe in their bones that abortion = murder, that's like saying 20% of all pregnancies end with a drug dealer cutting the baby out with a paring knife. It sounds horrific. Of course these people don't care if Trump hosed a porn star.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:24
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