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site posted:So it looks like gators are really actually trying the animegate thing now I feel like cross-dressing and trans characters are an old staple of anime, although I wouldn't have a broad field of knowledge here. What was Yellow Dancer in Robotech: The New Generation? I feel like that was just a cross-dressing character situation but it's been a while since I've seen it. And one of the girls in "You're Under Arrest" was unquestionably trans. Probably there's someone here who is a lot more knowledgeable on the subject who can break that down.
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Nov 25, 2018 20:28
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Stole this from the idiots on social media thread. One of those good faith arguers.
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Nov 25, 2018 20:37
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joehonkie posted:I feel like cross-dressing and trans characters are an old staple of anime, although I wouldn't have a broad field of knowledge here. It is, even though most of them aren't transgender in the way we'd think of it nowadays. Ranma 1/2 is an obvious example of mangas and animes from back in the day dealing with such themes. Next these idiots will be complaining that the SJWs put giant robots in there.
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Nov 25, 2018 20:50
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mallratcal posted:Stole this from the idiots on social media thread. One of those good faith arguers. I was hacked I was hacked! https://twitter.com/Mr_Sandman77/status/1066376527955283968?s=19
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Nov 25, 2018 21:27
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Lurdiak posted:It is, even though most of them aren't transgender in the way we'd think of it nowadays. Ranma 1/2 is an obvious example of mangas and animes from back in the day dealing with such themes. Hunter x hunter is a good example as it has a lot of male characters who dress feminine and it’s never really brought up. It’s just a thing they do. The only way you will know is looking at character bios.
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Nov 25, 2018 22:46
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Regarding the newly revealed trans girl in that anime, I saw someone say something funny but true earlier that the venn diagram of people who deny her identity as trans and people who are pedophiles that want to date her is nearly a circle. There are probably one or two truly oblivious people mixed in there somewhere but a lot of these people calling this child a "trap" is pretty drat telling.
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Nov 26, 2018 01:56
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https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1066509741789085697?s=19 Tbh I was in fact oblivious when I watched it (zombieland saga is real good btw, y'all should watch it) but now that I've had people talk about it and mention some other coded clues I'm gonna have to rewatch the episode
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Nov 26, 2018 02:18
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I’m trying to figure out why they think Crunchyroll would do that. It serves literally no purpose other than pissing off whoever produced the work. Using incorrect pronouns happen sometimes but that’s a different thing.
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Nov 26, 2018 02:24
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joehonkie posted:What was Yellow Dancer in Robotech: The New Generation? I feel like that was just a cross-dressing character situation but it's been a while since I've seen it. As someone who slogged through Robotech earlier in the year for research purposes, Lancer/Yellow Dancer in New Generation is probably intended to be written as cross-dressing (including a frankly baffling explanation that Lancer needs to dress as a woman so non-humanoid aliens won't be able to tell he's a soldier), but written in such a way that they come off as genderfluid in a modern viewing pretty easily? They're better than their MOSPAEDA equivelent, probably largely due to accident: the censorship cut out some of the more... fetish-y shots in MOSPAEDA of them (which then sneak back into the "uncensored" version of Robotech -_-), and Robotech cuts out a lot of the casual sexism in MOSPAEDA at least compared to what I've checked of MOSPAEDA. (I also prefer the vocal delivery being all Cam Clarke across the entire roll except for the 80's rock singing over the multiple VAs and idol singer-yness of MOSPAEDA.) They're certainly the best part of that entire last arc, mostly on the grounds that having a genderfluid rock star/resistance mecha pilot who saves the day with a relationship with an alien princess is pretty great, especially compared to the... amazingly baffling gender politics of the Macross stuff.
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Nov 26, 2018 02:33
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joehonkie posted:I feel like cross-dressing and trans characters are an old staple of anime, although I wouldn't have a broad field of knowledge here. Dirty Pair was handling this back in '85. https://skirtdefenseforce.wordpress.com/2015/07/13/the-dirty-pair-had-a-progressive-transgender-character-in-1985/ It handles the topic surprisingly well.
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Nov 26, 2018 02:42
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joehonkie posted:I feel like cross-dressing and trans characters are an old staple of anime, although I wouldn't have a broad field of knowledge here. More the former than the latter, and it's often handled in a way that isn't great. But occasional good portrayals of trans characters definitely do exist, and as Vandar points out, they go back a long way.
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Nov 26, 2018 03:04
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Crossdressing is a pretty common anime trope which leads to a lot of characters that are blatantly trans but the author doesn't realize because they themselves haven't really been exposed to openly trans people or characters. That means a lot of characters getting embraced by trans people for being accidental representation, and the accompanying arguments about whether they're actually trans or not, which means trans people entering those communities and asking people to please not use hateful slurs associated with murdering trans women about those characters. So the whole Lily situation is kind of a flashpoint for the people who got asked to not be such assholes and responding by revealing just how big assholes they were in the first place. They have to win this battle, because otherwise the trans agenda will take over their anime and Luka and Ferris won't belong to them anymore. Anyway, in summation, we all have to be nicer to bigots or they'll get upset edit: Also Crunchyroll actually did edit it a bit - Lily refers to her "old name" in the subs but "deadname" would be a more accurate translation of the phrase used and make it much more obvious Threep fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 03:20
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Well editing implies changing something drastically Crunchyroll is obviously gonna change some stuff somewhat as direct translations don’t really work.
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Nov 26, 2018 03:57
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I'm friends with people who work in official translations of various manga and anime, and people assigning malicious motives to them and assuming that they're messing with the integrity of the work (despite not knowing even rudimentary japanese and having no way to check) is nothing new. Idiots will swear by fan translations that have horrendous grammar and get every other word wrong as the "true" version of the anime simply because it seems more japanesey to them to use bad sentence construction.
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Nov 26, 2018 04:23
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Shout out to Band of the Hawk, who got really mad at Kentaro Miura for saying that the official romanization of the main character of the comic he created was Guts and not Gattsu
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Nov 26, 2018 04:37
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Threep posted:edit: Also Crunchyroll actually did edit it a bit - Lily refers to her "old name" in the subs but "deadname" would be a more accurate translation of the phrase used and make it much more obvious If this is true, it actually is worth griping about imo but ironically in the opposite direction the chuds want lol
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Nov 26, 2018 04:41
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Lurdiak posted:I'm friends with people who work in official translations of various manga and anime, and people assigning malicious motives to them and assuming that they're messing with the integrity of the work (despite not knowing even rudimentary japanese and having no way to check) is nothing new. Idiots will swear by fan translations that have horrendous grammar and get every other word wrong as the "true" version of the anime simply because it seems more japanesey to them to use bad sentence construction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo This was basically the debate in the early 2000s for anime. I'm not paying to much attention to the animegate thing, but at least gay and lesbian couples have been a part of anime for ages. And while not the same thing as voluntary transgenderism, a few series have dealt with involuntary transgenderism, like one called Kashimashi, about a boy that was killed by a space ship, then reconstituted as a girl cause the aliens thought he was one. It was a short read, and kind of interesting, as the kid had to stay a girl, and it dealt with her and others coming to terms with it.
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Nov 26, 2018 06:10
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I don't know a ton about anime so I'd be legitimately fascinated to read a popular or academic overview of GLBTQ+ representation in that and manga. Trans stuff in particular, it seems like there's a willingness to play around with cross-dressing and with magical or supernatural transformation, but not a lot exploring transness as a social and political identity, that is, more of an interest in playing around with gender tropes in the circumscribed space of the art rather than really digging into it as a cultural thing that fits uneasily in with conservative sexual and gender mores. I'm thinking of Makoto from Dead Dead Demons, or the really pretty shockingly offensive trans-woman in Golden Kamuy, the very dated and cringey character in Cowboy Bebop or the handful of trans characters in My Hero Academia who are generally innocuous but have pretty goofy character designs. As well as the long history of depicting drag queens/okama as burly, stubbly brutes, even when they're largely sympathetic (as in One Piece). I wonder if some of it is just not having the same taxonomical lines drawn as we do, and hence there being sort of a category crisis in trying to translate subject positions 1:1 either way. Sort of how in early modern England "mollies" were a distinct, crisply delineated demographic group, but to a contemporary reader it's impossible to tell in a given case, without further context, whether someone described as a molly is a gay young man, a transwoman, a cross-dressing sex worker or a male sex worker in general, a chaser, a hermaphroditic or intersex person, just sort of an effete or pretty looking working class boy, etc., because in that place and in that moment one umbrella term sufficed for all of those things and it didn't present definitional challenges. I'm just talking out of my rear end-- I really don't have any idea!
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Nov 26, 2018 16:21
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I'm hardly an expert but as I understand it, there are a lot of subcultures in Japan that defy gender norms and they've existed for a long time. Japan's mainstream society is very patriarchal, traditionalist and sexist (though getting better in recent decades), but there are corners of pop culture and subcultures that have pushed back heavily against this norm and have substantial followings. I'm sure anime's explorations of the subjects have some relation to these groups. Korea has similar subcultures that are even more accepted in the mainstream. There's probably books and documentaries about these topics out there, I just have no idea where.
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Nov 26, 2018 18:35
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Yeah anime is a very very broad category so you get whole areas that are just meant to appeal to those groups. Like while comic books can be a boys club anime is so many different things that their are a ton of groups than can find poo poo just for them. This as mentioned before can be good or bad.
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Nov 26, 2018 20:25
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It's a game rather than manga/anime, but some surprisingly excellent trans representation came out of Japan this year with Swery65's new platformer The Missing. It was a massive shock to see it better handled than many Western studios by a longshot. Things are changing everywhere- slower than they should be, but definitely.
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Nov 26, 2018 21:33
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Rachel Thorn tweets about LGBTQ issues in Japan often (also some good articles on her rarely updated site), also she translated Wandering Son, a manga which is real drat good and not enough people bought it in the US damnit.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:11
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I recently read an autobiographical/diary manga written by a trans woman called "I Was Born the Wrong Sex!" (Umareru Seibetsu wo Machigaeta!). It seems pretty detailed and mostly focuses on her experience being married to a woman in Japan and actually traveling solo to Thailand for SRS. I don't think there's an official translation for it yet but it's real interesting!
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Nov 27, 2018 00:25
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TheComicFiend posted:I recently read an autobiographical/diary manga written by a trans woman called "I Was Born the Wrong Sex!" (Umareru Seibetsu wo Machigaeta!). There's another one called The Bride Was A Boy that does have an official translation and is incredibly good
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Nov 27, 2018 00:31
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Thanks! I'll hafta check it out asap.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:40
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Can second the bride was a boy, it was good
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Nov 27, 2018 00:43
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I think it's seven seas so good luck finding it in the wild, but it's available through diamond so your local shop should be able to get it
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Nov 27, 2018 00:44
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Its on comixology too https://www.comixology.com/The-Bride-was-a-Boy/digital-comic/662606
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Nov 27, 2018 00:52
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Who uses that tho I mean really
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Nov 27, 2018 00:54
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It’s kind of funny how comiXology has basically become one of the easiest places to obtain Manga. You can even get popular series with same day releases now. Like you can get weekly Shōnen jump for a buck.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:55
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I picked up The Bride Was a Boy from there just now and its really endearing!
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Nov 27, 2018 02:08
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The Bride Was a Boy is super adorable.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:31
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CharlestheHammer posted:It’s kind of funny how comiXology has basically become one of the easiest places to obtain Manga. You can even get popular series with same day releases now. You get it for maybe half that if you just get a sub through viz
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Nov 27, 2018 05:38
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:You get it for maybe half that if you just get a sub through viz Viz’s online store isnt very good last I checked. Ain’t worth the like 20 bucks you’d save
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Nov 27, 2018 19:58
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Just subscribe in the Shonen Jump app, which works fine.
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Nov 27, 2018 20:02
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CharlestheHammer posted:Viz’s online store isnt very good last I checked. Ain’t worth the like 20 bucks you’d save Their app is fine and good you should just sub to it There's even a Jump app for people who just want to sub and don't care about the online store Still sub on their site though because it's cheaper BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 03:02
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Chapterhouse is giving creators a very special chance to write and draw FREE COMICS for a chance to be published as a backup in a book written by Dan Fogler, Harry Potter spinoff star. No entry fee required! https://twitter.com/chapterhouseca/status/1068233638825918464 Some people thought that was real lovely. https://twitter.com/hellocookie/status/1068236635270258690 Dan Fogler finally agreed to at least pay something for the winning entry, but he's super mad about it. https://twitter.com/mrdanfogler/status/1068283835283062784 https://twitter.com/mrdanfogler/status/1068288040429338624 https://twitter.com/mrdanfogler/status/1068289990281572352 https://twitter.com/mrdanfogler/status/1068301016028848129
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Nov 30, 2018 05:22
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Where's the fun in paying people for work
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Nov 30, 2018 06:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGAmPRxV48&t=12s The mantra of the freelancer.
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Nov 30, 2018 07:20
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Squidster posted:Chapterhouse is giving creators a very special chance to write and draw FREE COMICS for a chance to be published as a backup in a book written by Dan Fogler, Harry Potter spinoff star. No entry fee required! This seriously reads like a goddamn parody.
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Nov 30, 2018 07:36
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