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Motronic posted:He's right. I don't like to see them in there either. And if I saw them in new work I'd be all over everything, because it indicates sloppiness and poor planning. Yeah, I feel the same way, and they're never in any of our new work. Sometimes though you get thrown into a giant mess and you do what you have to do. I love working for the guy because he cares about doing things right and treats us all very well.
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Nov 25, 2018 06:19
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So I live in the EU and went to plug in an old device I have from the US using a simple outlet adapter. The device is a "Squeezebox" and it has a pretty standard looking AC adapter (output DC 5V 2A). I plugged the outlet adapter into a powerstrip and the AC adapter into that. Before I could plug the jack into the squeezebox, I heard a loud pop and smoke appeared. Oops. I was able to pull the outlet adapter and AC adapter out. The AC adapter looks like it tried to split itself in half and there are some black marks on the outlet adapter. Thankfully the powerstrip is still working fine; none of the other items plugged into it at the time seemed to notice... So now that I look, the AC adapter is only rated for 100V input so the 220 or 240V or whatever they have here surely did it in. I kinda assumed all these types of things took the full range of input of 100V-240V and all the other ones in my possession, EU and US plugs, are indeed this way. I even have another model of US Squeezebox with a different power requirement and it takes 100V-240V. How common is it to have one of these things that only takes 100V input? Since the powerstrip appears to still be working... it's fine, right? How dumb am I?
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Nov 25, 2018 14:23
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Associate Christ
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Re: gloves, these are what you want https://www.amazon.com/34-8743-Medi...ds=maxiflex+cut They will sort of mold to your hands as you wear them.
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Nov 25, 2018 14:27
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other people posted:So I live in the EU and went to plug in an old device I have from the US using a simple outlet adapter. The device is a "Squeezebox" and it has a pretty standard looking AC adapter (output DC 5V 2A). Not turbo dumb but medium dumb. It could have burst into flames and you would have had a much worse day. You must check every device. Anything with a motor, charger, or heating element is double suspect. Next time read the relevant information (input) instead of the worthless information (output). Power strip is probably fine.
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Nov 25, 2018 15:37
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other people posted:How common is it to have one of these things that only takes 100V input? And to answer this one: it depends. The older and more market-specific the more likely it is to be in the 90-130v input range, as it covers the US, Caribbean, Central and parts of South American and most importantly to the older electronic devices targeted at US markets: Japan and Taiwan. There was a long time there where Europe and/or global distribution in general wasn't much of a thing in the world of electronics and they were built accordingly, as building them for "dual voltage" cost more. Now with the advent of switch mode power supplies it makes little economic sense to not support global voltages/frequencies.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:16
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other people posted:How dumb am I? Not as dumb as the time I hooked up temporary power to the 277/480 lighting panel instead of the regular panel and fried my Makita charger. Those things are expensive, drat it. Everything's probably fine except for the exploded adapter.
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Nov 25, 2018 19:52
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My media server at home suddenly started crashing out of the blue last night.. So I started to tear it apart. As I was doing so, I got a slight buzz/shock when I touched the outer shield of the VGA cable coming from the monitor. And if said cable was plugged into the computer, you could feel the entire case "buzzing". Grabbed my multi-meter... Touching one lead to the VGA cable, and touching the other lead with my finger:   The surge strip the computer/monitor is plugged into has a ground indicator light, and I noticed it was off. So I started testing some outlets and only one outlet in the room showed a ground. I pulled that outlet out and discovered whoever wired my house used some sort of bronze ferrule to crimp the bundle of ground wires together. And the ferrule had broken. This got me checking other outlets; on nearly every outlet they used one of these ferrules, and they where ALL broken or only loosely holding the ground wires together. Did I mention my house is only 5 years old and the electrical supposedly passed inspection? Bonus: They left exactly 1.5 inches of wire sticking out of the wall. Using a wire nut was impossible thanks to this, so I ended up fixing it with a Waygo connector (the push fit kind). And it looks like I'm going to have to fix all the outlets this way.
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Nov 26, 2018 15:52
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There's nothing wrong with those ground crimps, unless of course some jackass didn't install them properly and left barely any wire to work with. You could get some and do it right if you want to save a little money, they're a lot cheaper than Wagos.
Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 16:00
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Mimesweeper posted:There's nothing wrong with those ground crimps, unless of course some jackass didn't install them properly and left barely any wire to work with. You could get some and do it right if you want to save a little money, they're a lot cheaper than Wagos. Whatever crimps they used where apparently poo poo. They are a really soft metal. I can bend them easily with my fingers. I don't see how they would ever last. I can also assume they where not crimped properly, because it looks like they where just smashed flat with a pair of pliers. When I pulled the other 5 outlets in the room to check; 2 crimps where where cracked, 3 where loose and the ground wires could be moved around inside the crimp. They left so little wire sticking out of the wall, I couldn't hold the wire and get a wire nut on it at the same time. A Wago worked perfectly in this case and at least I know it won't come loose again! Not really worried about the cost on Wagos. I work for a company that also sells electrical supplies, so a bag of them only costs me a few bucks. 
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Nov 26, 2018 16:20
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stevewm posted:Whatever crimps they used where apparently poo poo. They are a really soft metal. I can bend them easily with my fingers. I don't see how they would ever last. I can also assume they where not crimped properly, because it looks like they where just smashed flat with a pair of pliers. Gross, yeah, you're supposed to use a purpose built crimping tool. They're soft because they're copper but no wonder the connections are loose. Some people just don't care. They last fine if you use them right, it's pretty standard for residential work.
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Nov 26, 2018 16:34
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Mimesweeper posted:Gross, yeah, you're supposed to use a purpose built crimping tool. They're soft because they're copper but no wonder the connections are loose. Some people just don't care. They last fine if you use them right. Given the other electrical issues I've found, the fact they didn't use the proper tool doesn't surprise me. When I replaced a light switch a couple years ago with a ZWave switch.. I discovered the neutrals where just twisted together with no wire nut to be found. I ended up checking all the other switches in the house because of this. I guess I should have checked the outlets at the same time.
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Nov 26, 2018 16:53
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stevewm posted:Did I mention my house is only 5 years old and the electrical supposedly passed inspection? Any home warranty on this from the builder? Sounds like jimbo the fuckwit electrician lost his crimper but pressed on anyways. I wouldn't be surprised if your whole block (or every Nth house) is like that. If the company is still building near you it might be worth a call to the city with your findings. When put on with the crimper they do not come off period. At least the ones in my boxes don't which was super fun when I needed to pigtail a wire.
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Nov 26, 2018 17:10
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stevewm posted:Grabbed my multi-meter... Touching one lead to the VGA cable, and touching the other lead with my finger:  You are using yourself to measure to ground? Who taught you that? Because that person doesn't like you.
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Nov 26, 2018 21:03
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RabbitWizard posted:
Yeah, that was pretty stupid on my part.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:24
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Well, it is the most accurate way to determine how much of a shock you were getting from touching the case.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:08
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stevewm posted:My media server at home suddenly started crashing out of the blue last night.. So I started to tear it apart. As I was doing so, I got a slight buzz/shock when I touched the outer shield of the VGA cable coming from the monitor. And if said cable was plugged into the computer, you could feel the entire case "buzzing". Did this fix the problem? The lack of a ground shouldn't cause this problem, unless the ground wire was hitting the hot legs when it broke.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:13
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Special A posted:Did this fix the problem? The lack of a ground shouldn't cause this problem, unless the ground wire was hitting the hot legs when it broke. Yes it did actually. Surge strip and other testing devices show ground present again on all the affected outlets and I measure no voltage to ground from the monitor or computer casing.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:46
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H110Hawk posted:Any home warranty on this from the builder? Sounds like jimbo the fuckwit electrician lost his crimper but pressed on anyways. I wouldn't be surprised if your whole block (or every Nth house) is like that. If the company is still building near you it might be worth a call to the city with your findings. I've removed those crimps from houses built in the 60s that were wrapped in asphalt tape (before vinyl tape was invented), so the crimp method is absolutely sound if properly installed. I'd be more concerned about whatever device is, by its nature, leaking to ground and energizing things. That used to be a thing that CRT monitors did, but most modern devices don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:54
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:I'd be more concerned about whatever device is, by its nature, leaking to ground and energizing things. That used to be a thing that CRT monitors did, but most modern devices don't do that kind of stuff anymore. I mean he was using VGA in 2018. (  Brand new servers which don't even support bios mode booting still use VGA ports as their sole output. For the love of god go to mini displayport.)
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Nov 27, 2018 01:00
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H110Hawk posted:I mean he was using VGA in 2018. ( If they remove VGA, then you get remote hands techs that complain they can't access the server because they don't have the adapter. It's great when it's a Dell tech accessing a Dell server that doesn't have any sort of adapters with them.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:05
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H110Hawk posted:I mean he was using VGA in 2018. ( Its an old i3 desktop cobbled together from bits I had laying around used mostly for Plex hooked up to a 9-10 year old Dell LCD monitor, not my main computer. I would say the monitor was most likely the main culprit of the ground leakage, as it was the only thing that seemed energized and the computer didn't become energized until the monitor was hooked up. Edit: Curiosity got to me. Dug up a 3 pin to 2 pin adapter plug and plugged the monitor in with it. Sure enough, the ground leakage down the video cables comes back and I measure ~50v between any metal part of the monitor and ground. Guess I'll be getting rid of that monitor..... stevewm fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 01:09
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devicenull posted:If they remove VGA, then you get remote hands techs that complain they can't access the server because they don't have the adapter. It's great when it's a Dell tech accessing a Dell server that doesn't have any sort of adapters with them. This is why we provide the crash carts and complete toolkit in-cage. No dealing with that crap. stevewm posted:Its an old i3 desktop cobbled together from bits I had laying around used mostly for Plex hooked up to a 9-10 year old Dell LCD monitor, not my main computer. I would say the monitor was most likely the main culprit of the ground leakage, as it was the only thing that seemed energized and the computer didn't become energized until the monitor was hooked up. I don't actually care what you do in the privacy of your own home. Pervert.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:30
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:I'd be more concerned about whatever device is, by its nature, leaking to ground and energizing things. It's this. This is what you worry about. By all means, it's great you knew/were informed you had a structured wiring issue and fixed it. But leaking to ground is not okay for normal operations.
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Nov 27, 2018 03:58
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Motronic posted:It's this. This is what you worry about. Yeah, I edited a post above to reflect that I tested the monitor again with its ground disconnected (using a 3-pin to 2-pin adapter) and every metal part of its chassis is showing ~50v to ground. Along with anything metallic connected to it like video cables. Definitely not safe. I've since unplugged it and will be disposing of it.
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Nov 27, 2018 04:16
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stevewm posted:Yeah, that was pretty stupid on my part. You mentioned it so casually, I couldn't leave it alone  Nevets posted:Well, it is the most accurate way to determine how much of a shock you were getting from touching the case. It is not, circumstances change fast. There's a difference between 1) Finger touching the case a bit 2) Holding one probe between 2 fingers and poking the other one ever so slightly into the paint. Yes, you may not use method 2 exactly like this, but you should get what I mean. Also, a multi-meter isn't a device designed to save you from deadly current if you are touching the metal bits.
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Nov 27, 2018 16:53
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H110Hawk posted:( Now as I'm thinking about that I'm picturing a device that resembles an ultra-thin laptop but is basically just a display, keyboard, trackpad, and USB hub.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:08
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wolrah posted:I totally agree with the complaint, but USB-C would be a better choice. You could have a one wire crash cart with the appropriate monitor while still supporting cheap adapters to DisplayPort and/or HDMI/DVI for use with more common monitors. I would also accept this.
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Nov 27, 2018 21:29
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H110Hawk posted:Any home warranty on this from the builder?
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Dec 1, 2018 01:12
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I could use some advice from this thread... I am concerned about the wiring in my house and I would like to have an electrician replace my main distribution panel and breakers with CAFCI breakers, to mitigate potential arc faults and other dangerous conditions in the house. Also, because of water intrusion (described below), I would also like to replace the ~10ft run from the main distribution panel to the electrical meter with something like underground feeder wire (if practical) and have the electrician replace my meter box. I'm also not entirely convinced the previous owner's 200 Amp service upgrade replaced anything beyond the distribution panel, and I don't know whether there needs to be any other work done to upgrade the connection to the utility lines (which I suppose is more of a question for an electrician to advise on). For context, I live in an 120 year old house that was built nearly thirty years before electricity came to the area. In fact, the upstairs bedrooms still have (disconnected) gas lamp hookups). The knob and tube wiring has been disconnected near so far as I can tell, but I do still find the insulators and remnants in the walls. Reasons I am concerned: -The electrical meter box had a broken door seal tag on it, suggesting the panel upgrade from the PO was not properly permitted or approved from the utility. This is a semi rural town with previously lax code enforcement, so I'm not really surprised. -The main distribution panel has a broken lug where the main breaker connects to the left hot bus bar. Consequently, the main breaker is not bolted in to the bus bar, just resting on top of where it should be making contact  -The main distribution panel has weeped water from the circuit breakers because of a leaky meter box housing, which funneled water into the panel. I would like to have an electrician replace this run with underground feeder wire or something so water cannot funnel from the meter box and go into my panel, rusting out the breakers. I'm assuming I should also request to have the meter housing replaced? Soon as I discovered the issue I puttied around the box seams with duct seal as a stopgap, which seems to be working for now  -When installing receptacle GFCIs in the kitchen/bathrooms after moving in, I noticed evidence of arcing in the kitchen outlets with scorched wiring and loose connections.I installed a CAFCI breaker on another circuit, but it trips almost immediately, which is extremely disconcerting. I suspect that was because of some other issues I found on the circuit (live light fixture, etc), but I haven't tried putting the CAFCI back in to confirm that was the source of the problem after fixing the issue. -When fixing the wiring in my bathroom so the switch operated the lights, I noticed part of the circuit still used fifties era braided NM wiring with crumbling rubber sheathing. The wiring in the house was supposed to have been completely replaced in 2007, but I suspect there may be connecting runs on certain circuits where they didn't bother replacing the old wiring after the first leg of the circuit. I replaced that run but I suspect that there are more rotting away in the walls  -The new (2007) wiring in the basement seems pretty slapdash and not up to code, or at the very least not very professional looking. It's just stapled to the underside of joists running out in every direction. I wouldn't care as much if it weren't for the rest of the issues. -I've run into and cleaned up several circuits with various issue in the basement, eg where the light fixture itself was live, and another where there was a floating ground. My Questions Can anyone help me ballpark a price for a panel replacement, new circuit to the meter box, and new meter box? For reference, I currently have a square D QO panel with 40 slots (30 filled, including a whole house surge protector), so I'm looking at probably roughly 1300$ alone for the panel and CAFCI breakers (if that's even the best solution). I'm assuming the electrician will want to provide the equipment, so I'm not trying to buy things and ask them to install it, just get an idea. How much of a priority is this work, and how concerned should I be? I've been living with this for four years now, but I haven't had any money or time to address it. What's a good resource to find electricians? What other information should I get together before reaching out to get quotes on this project? Are CAFCI breakers less problem prone in 2018? I just want to mitigate electrical fire risk without replacing all of my wiring, but maybe I need to fix the sources of the problem on all the circuits before putting something in that would just keep turning the circuits off. I greatly appreciate any guidance here! For reference, here's a picture of the broken lug on my distribution panel:  And here's the whole panel with the cover off. You can see some rust from the water inside the clear on/off indicator on the breakers: 
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Dec 1, 2018 19:33
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We regret to inform you that your house has already burned down and you're currently ghostposting. I'll let the professionals give you serious advice as this is way more than I'm qualified to talk about.
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Dec 1, 2018 19:42
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Your biggest issue is that broken bolt, I'd suggest getting that done ASAP.
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Dec 1, 2018 20:14
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Have you seen the water in the panel yourself? I had water riding my service line into the box in my last house, and my panel was 1000% worse looking than yours. My inexpert guess is that when the box was replaced they fixed an existing water problem but reused the dirty old breakers. If that's the case you may still want to replace the breakers but at least you don't have to worry about more water. And it's possible that the 200 amp service upgrade consisted of just replacing the panel, the service line might have already been rated for that, but the old panel was too small to fit more than 100 amps worth of gear in. If you can get an electrician in to do an estimate / evaluation I would.
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Dec 1, 2018 20:25
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Loose/lovely lugs are what cause multi-million dollar industrial fires, that should be the #1 priority. Honestly if you can live with just the circuits that are on the good one you should give serious thought to shutting down every breaker on that phase until you can get it fixed.
shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Dec 1, 2018 |
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Dec 1, 2018 20:55
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Also how long have you been there and have you contacted the utility and told them the previous owner broke the seal? Have they inspected the meter and replaced the seal? If anything does happen your insurance is going to deny the gently caress out of your claim over that.
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Dec 1, 2018 21:04
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shame on an IGA posted:Loose/lovely lugs are what cause multi-million dollar industrial fires, that should be the #1 priority. Honestly if you can live with just the circuits that are on the good one you should give serious thought to shutting down every breaker on that phase until you can get it fixed. Thanks! I about had an aneurysm when I took the cover off for the water and noticed that. At the very least there appears to be a sheet metal screw holding it together, but I'm going to guess that the pot metal expanding and contracting can't mean that it is very long for this world. Nevets posted:Have you seen the water in the panel yourself? I had water riding my service line into the box in my last house, and my panel was 1000% worse looking than yours. My inexpert guess is that when the box was replaced they fixed an existing water problem but reused the dirty old breakers. If that's the case you may still want to replace the breakers but at least you don't have to worry about more water. Yup!  That's currently why the cover is staying off... I went downstairs to reset the stove's circuit, and there was a literal waterfall trickling down the front of the breakers when I opened the door. My lovely patch fix it fast patch was duct seal over all the seams in the meter box till I can get someone out to replace that. I suspect the panel was replaced when the wiring was redone by the PO in 2007, and there was probably a 40 amp fuse box before that, which is why I'm wondering whether the service lines are adequate, given the rest of the state. Ok, so it sounds like I really need to get an electrician out ASAP. Is there any way to fix that lug, or is that new panel territory? What's the best course for finding an electrician?
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Dec 1, 2018 21:14
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OSU_Matthew posted:Ok, so it sounds like I really need to get an electrician out ASAP. Yes. This is the kind of thing that would cause my former code enforcement self to red tag the box and how the power company disconnect service while I was standing there. OSU_Matthew posted:Is there any way to fix that lug, or is that new panel territory? The bus bar of that box is a replaceable item. But getting that replacement may be a pain in the rear end, so your electrician will likely buy a new box and gut the part out of it to put in your existing box. Boxes are cheap compared to the breakers in them. And from my experience - call code enforcement in your town and ask who they would suggest as an electrician. They may tell you, or they may only be able to give you a list of people who are currently licensed/bonded in the jurisdiction. If you can talk to a code inspector in person you are more likely to get a shot list of "people who's work I don't have to tear apart regularly."
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Dec 1, 2018 22:48
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Motronic posted:Yes. This is the kind of thing that would cause my former code enforcement self to red tag the box and how the power company disconnect service while I was standing there. This is really great advice, thank you! I'll give him a ring first thing Monday and go from there.
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Dec 2, 2018 02:48
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Even if that lug is replacable, because it's upstream from the disconnect the only way to do it safely is going to be to make your POCO come and pull the meter.
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Dec 2, 2018 04:25
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shame on an IGA posted:Even if that lug is replacable, because it's upstream from the disconnect the only way to do it safely is going to be to make your POCO come and pull the meter. The lug isn't replaceable - it's part of the bus bar assembly if I recall correctly (pressed in). So the meter was getting pulled regardless. And depending on jurisdiction/poco you don't need to call to pull a meter, maybe not even to replace. If you call them with a closed out permit as proof of why you pulled the meter they will re-tag around here.
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Dec 2, 2018 16:08
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We will re-tag but do not encourage anyone but utility employees to access the meter enclosure unless there is an emergency. The available fault current can be very high, and while rare the meter or stabs/wire lugs can break and come out with the meter. Although, last week I had an electrician trip off the transformer on the pole, with his own hot stick.  He didn't expect us to show up so quickly and was real worried I was gonna start trouble with him over it. I made it clear that it wasn't a great idea (we try not to use the built in transformer breakers because they have a habit of refusing to close back in) but given the semi-emergency situation he had, I would keep it quiet.
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Dec 2, 2018 18:02
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