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Just finished with the 4th door of The House in Fata Morgana. The Maid really emphasized beforehand how it is the final door and all my questions should be answered soon (or should have been already?), but I don't believe her one bit  -- Also, recently finished The 25th Ward: The Silver Case. Left confused. But I think I get the most important parts, especially after looking at the (major spoilers) suda51 wikia and Internet gaming forums. Before getting to the spoilers, I have to say the game is absolutely worth playing through for fans of The Silver Case. Overall the first Silver Case is the better game, more memorable characters and something better resembling a proper ending. But still, The 25th Ward's story is mind-bending and does not disappoint if the first game left you wanting more. What I think I understand from the story, mainly regarding observers: Observers and Kamui are two sides of a coin. In the Digital Man chapter we see both. On the one hand, Observers are "enhanced humans" that store massive amounts of digital data in their physical bodies. On the flip side, people with Kamui powers are able to exist outside of their physical body, in an alternate world, and even project an image of themselves back into the real world. At first glance the Kamui power of this game appears to be different than the original Silver Case. In the original it had something to do with criminal intent and brainwashing. In this game it seems to be about manipulating the alternate world. The theory that ties them together is that these "alternate worlds" purely exist in people's heads - Kamuis are able to overwrite other people's brains with new data. The "real world" is all about perception by each individual. Kurumizawa has both Observer and Kamui powers, which makes him formidable. He observes people, creating a digital snapshot of them inside his head. And then he is able to project images, mostly of himself, from the alternate world into the real world. That's also why characters talk about a weird feeling they get when they know they've been observed; that feeling is probably the subconscious realization that another copy of them has been born into an alternate world, slaves to whomever controls that world. By the end of the game a lot of people are dead. But it doesn't seem to matter because it's hinted that everyone already inhabits an alternate world, or multiple ones. That's why dead people keep reappearing after death. However, like data on a hard disk, these alternate beings don't really "live" on their own; they're inanimate and require a living medium to reanimate them. That is, mediums with Kamui powers. My hunch is that, depending on their power level, Kamuis can project more and more things from the alternate world into the real world. Kurumizawa is relatively low-level, only able to project images of himself. On the other side of the scale, Uehara is powerful enough to choose from among 100 different futures, creating entire new realities encompassing the world. Maybe I didn't get that exactly right but it sounds close enough. There's so many other aspects of the story to discuss (politics, motivations), and plenty to say about potential sequels and tie-ins to other Grasshopper Manufacture games. I probably have to go play "Flower, Sun & Rain" soon - hoping for a PC port! TalkLittle fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 01:49
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Suda said he wants to port FSR it just probably wouldn't be anytime soon. Maybe if Killer7 PC does well. Really don't want to play the DS version
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Nov 7, 2018 01:55
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lets hang out posted:Suda said he wants to port FSR it just probably wouldn't be anytime soon. Maybe if Killer7 PC does well. Really don't want to play the DS version I know it's not the thread for it, but when is the K7 port coming out? It's my favorite game of all time and I can't wait to spring it on a bunch of unsuspecting people who will let it sit in their Steam library totally unplayed until the heat death of the universe. But really, who doesn't love a game that has a lot of plot ideas tied together only by suda51 not realizing there were two places in America called Washington?
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Nov 7, 2018 03:17
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it was supposed to be "fall" so  apparently they have people beta testing it atm
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Nov 7, 2018 03:35
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So is there no way to access settings in Death MarK and change message speed, or save manually for that matter? Cause if there is I ain’t seeing it
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Nov 10, 2018 00:05
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Thuryl posted:Hmm, in that case you might like Ne no Kami as a supernatural action-adventure story with a major yuri subplot. It's pretty much a kinetic novel, though; there's one choice in part 2 and that's it, so if alternate ending options are important to you it's not really that kind of game. (Also, disclosure time again: this is another game I did QA work on, so I probably have an emotional attachment to it because of that, but I do think it's a good game on its own merits.) Finished part 1 of this, it's pretty cool. thanks.
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Nov 10, 2018 05:37
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The House in Fata Morgana. Spoiler talk for people who have finished it- The middle of the story is the best part of the game by far. The backstories of the main characters are powerful and emotional. The romance is real and amazing. At this point I understood why it is some people's favorite VN. The ending specifically Morgana's plotline conclusion, was disappointing. Morgana all of a sudden admitting her mistakes, taking the blame for cursing others. It almost completely invalidated her pain. Hopefully the sequel picks up the pieces and is more satisfying in this regard. Rereading the early story after beating it, the 4th door is so sweet. Morgana invented the false story right? Then it's a love story between Morgana and Michel whom she could never touch, since they never lived in the same time period. That genuinely melts my heart. Overall great story, amazing plot composition and progression, fully fleshed out and empathetic characters. I will check out the Requiem sequel for sure. Sometimes it does drag on though, with extraneous or repetitive dialogue. IMO the game is somewhat oversold when some call it their all-time #1 favorite visual novel. My expectations were set a bit too high, and the flaws in the game therefore stuck out.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:38
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I'm not sure I would interpret the ending that way, a big reason why I like it so much in the first place is that I feel it does a good job of letting her move on while simultaneously not forgiving the three men. She had every reason to hate them, even after their humanizing stories were told, however in the end she was able to see that despite earning their hatred it did not necessitate damning them along with herself for eternity. Not to mention that by doing so she HAD roped in innocent people like Giselle, Michel, and Pauline. Fata Morgana did IMO a genuinely great job at making just about everyone empathetic in some nature, and wrap it all up / bring it together in a cathartic and organic manner. Well, except for Aimee.  I think Requiem is pretty rad but I'm wondering if some of the directions it takes might be not exactly what you're looking for since it is primarily a prequel dealing with Morgana's past more explicitly which by its definition is going to be fairly focused on further humanization of very flawed (sometimes monstrous) people. That said it's still worth IMO if you have any attachment to that world because more than anything finishing it made me feel that Novectacle truly loves that world and characters and wants to do right by them. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 23:28
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I agree about the treatment of the badguys being well done, and showing their human side and letting the reader (and Michel) understand their points of view. My issue was probably how quickly Morgana could pick up and move on; after festering alone for hundreds and hundreds of years, she was convinced in a matter of days. It almost felt like she was pushed and prodded by Michel and Giselle to reach a conclusion so quickly, rather than coming to the conclusion on her own. By two people who did genuinely want to help her, but who also had the secondary motive of convincing her to let them escape. A decade timeskip would have helped a lot IMO. Starting with Michel saying "I can't help you anymore, ultimately it's your decision to make," and each year the mansion gets gradually brighter as Morgana slowly comes around, finally deciding she wants to move forward on her own terms. And then finally after that she removes the curses. Oh yeah, gently caress Aimee Glad to hear that you liked Requiem, I really want to see more!
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Nov 14, 2018 00:08
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Absolutely not the type of game for it but it'd be funny if there was a joke ending in Fata Morgana where after helping Morgana through all her stuff, you immediately turned around and cursed Aimee in the exact same way. It'd be funny and also very cathartic because seriously, gently caress Aimee.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:32
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Fata Morgana may have my favorite ending in a VN, though I'm mainly talking about the double-fakeout credits into Michel and Giselle's reunion.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:41
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I mean what visual novel doesn't have extraneous or repetitive dialogue tbh.
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Nov 14, 2018 12:06
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Fata Morgana may have my favorite ending in a VN, though I'm mainly talking about the double-fakeout credits into Michel and Giselle's reunion. Speaking of fakeouts, I like the digital screen corruption thing around the 4th door making you think "oh... so it's sci-fi?" and then thankfully it's not. Meallan posted:I mean what visual novel doesn't have extraneous or repetitive dialogue tbh. To expand on that in Fata Morgana, the second door was too long which they even mention in the Backstage Extras. And the sappy lovers' banter with constantly-awkward Michel got kind of old at the end, which was unfortunate for two reasons: it took away from the real and impactful romance established prior; and it partly displaced what could have been a more believable human treatment of Morgana's ending. The writers chose to go for the Michel-Giselle centric romance ending, so a more satisfying wrapup of Morgana's plot would have gotten in the way of the pacing they used for that. Sorry to sound like a negative nancy, I really did enjoy the game and would count it among my favorites, it has many amazing parts to it that I will continue to remember fondly.
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Nov 14, 2018 19:22
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GOG added some more DRM-free visual novels to their catalog and put them on sale for the next 3 days. https://www.gog.com/news/release_visual_novels_galore_japanese_games_now_up_to_80 Includes Umineko (50%/40% off), Fata Morgana (50% off), World End Economica (75%/50% off) and others. Higurashi ch1-6 and Fault are on sale too. Sale list Unfortunately it's dumb and won't let me buy the Fata Morgana soundtrack without owning the game on GOG.
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Nov 14, 2018 22:38
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One thing I dislike about Fata Morgana is Jacopo, the game obviously wanted me to feel sympathetic to him the most but man that dude was irredeemable garbage, plus the weird pedo angle was pointless and weird.] I liked how it did basically everything else but man with that character it dropped the ball.
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Nov 14, 2018 22:48
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That has kind of been bothering me in Requiem which I still haven't finished. I don't completely hate him as a character, though I want to smack him a lot, he has Flaws and they have created Problems. But I can't understand how the game thinks we're supposed to be okay with him having romantic feelings for a child. And this from someone who doesn't even mind storylines dealing with inappropriate relationship ages and the angst and confusion created by them, when you've interacted with someone as an equal and started to have feelings for them as an equal even though they're not. But it feels like it wants us to think this is just fine, no big deal? What? It's been so long since I played the first game that I don't remember how that issue was addressed there.
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Nov 15, 2018 03:24
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I think it was handled in the original by being a part that's just sort of glossed over, since that part of the story is sort of intentionally stepped through in somewhat different manner than the rest. Then with Requiem they almost seemed a bit written into the corner, with a "well you know how it's going to go, anyway".
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Nov 15, 2018 03:52
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CharlestheHammer posted:One thing I dislike about Fata Morgana is Jacopo, the game obviously wanted me to feel sympathetic to him the most but man that dude was irredeemable garbage, plus the weird pedo angle was pointless and weird.] I liked how it did basically everything else but man with that character it dropped the ball. That's what I disliked the most about it too. Tbh I though the whole story with Morgana was kinda too much. It escalated to absurd degrees that when the story tried to make you understand the other side it fell flat because everyone had gone way too far.
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Nov 15, 2018 14:44
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Meallan posted:That's what I disliked the most about it too. Tbh I though the whole story with Morgana was kinda too much. It escalated to absurd degrees that when the story tried to make you understand the other side it fell flat because everyone had gone way too far. I forget his name but I think the kid was fairly well handled as he was put in a lovely situation which made him sort of sympathetic but they couldn’t figure a way to make either the beast or Jac sympathetic and it kind of hurts the end of it. Though hilarious Michael shits all over the kid but with Jac he sort of blames Morgana for the lovely thing he did to her do to his greed.
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Nov 15, 2018 16:15
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I don't really remember there being that much victim blaming going on re: Morgana, it always felt pretty damning on the other side. The fig leaf that Requiem seems to give Jacopo is more how he became so cynical/nihilistic which in the original from what little you know is very abrupt. As for Yukimasa, if anything Requiem seems to walk back his "redemption" (if you want to call it that) by having that one side story where he just murders that lady for yucks. I guess he's really just an rear end in a top hat in the end but well I don't think they handwave it away for narrative convenience that much.
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Nov 15, 2018 16:33
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I am talking about the bit where Micheal is explaining the backstory and gets to the part where she is brought before Jacapo and she mistakenly thought he was the old noble and Michael says if she hadn’t done that this might not have happened. Which kind of ignores that Jacapo has a you know choice here. Which is insane considering how hard he went at the other two. I also hated the behind the scenes poo poo that called Jacapo the second most pure heart of the cast which was eye rolling
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Nov 15, 2018 21:22
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Requiem (vague and non-detailed) does a decent job of explaining how Jacopo could become horribly cynical and paranoid, without actually excusing him for it, at least in the parts I've read. Like, he made some very dumb choices, and for some of the same reasons that he messed up with Maria in the railroad door era. He thought he was making the best decisions for other people, without taking the time to actually talk to them, explain himself, and find out what they needed. And then as things start to go wrong he isolates himself more and puts more pressure on himself while being bitter at the world for his own screwups. .... But yeah pfft on him having such a pure heart, that's dumb.
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Nov 15, 2018 23:06
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Otome games on the Fall sales: Amnesia: Memories - $2.99 (-85%) OZMAFIA!! - $17.49 (-50%) Nameless ~The one thing you must recall~ - $22.49 (-25%) Dandelion ~ Wishes brought to you ~ - $22.49 (-25%) Fashioning Little Miss Lonesome - $12.49 (-50%) Hakuoki: Kyoto Winds - $4.49 (-85%) Hakuoki: Edo Blossoms - $4.49 (-85%) Hatoful Boyfriend - $2.49 (-75%) Nightshade - $27.99 (-20%)
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Nov 22, 2018 16:55
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A whole bunch of VNs are presumably on sale in some fashion, as I was able to pick up 428 for 40% off.
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Nov 23, 2018 16:57
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Nate RFB posted:A whole bunch of VNs are presumably on sale in some fashion, as I was able to pick up 428 for 40% off. Wow, that many 
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Nov 23, 2018 17:02
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When does Umineko actually get good? I've got slightly over 6 hours of active playtime and sure there's mystery of extra or not? person on the island but jesus this game reminds me why I can't often stand VNs and their pacing. None of the characters seem that interesting either and the protagonist? seems quite unlikable so far. I'm also sure some of the dumb stuff like why the hell would servants live on a far-off island are going to be answered because it's strongly hinted that they're either somehow bound to the master or they are not what they appear to be but it still doesn't help the initial depiction. My largest hope for the game so far is that Beatrice is either incredibly compelling/interesting/chilling/scary/conflicted a character especially with interactions with the protagonist Coming from Fata Morgana I had interesting character interactions and mysteries way earlier into the game. I did get chills from the scene where they show the painting though. I wish Witch on The Holy Night was translated and officially released in the west. The audiovisual presentation is so far ahead of any VN I've played so far. Hell, even doki doki is quite a bit ahead of most VNs I've played from an audiovisual standpoint even though it's just running on Ren'py I honestly probably would have given up on the medium if I didn't have additional wiimotes lying around. Playing VNs while lying on a comfortable chair and casually pressing a button to advance regardless where you've decided to twist your arm to saves a lot of frustration.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:15
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If you're 6 hours in you might literally be on the cusp where it all pops off, though I will maintain that I still like the earlier parts of EP1 a lot because gosh there will be a time you'd look back at it with whimsical nostalgia. I guess technically this counts as mild spoilers given how EP1 is structured but given the overall % of the reveal to the rest of the story, I think it's fairly safe to say that you (probably) will not be too disappointed with how they would handle a hypothetical Beatrice character. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 00:31
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Thing I strongly dislike about Fata Morgana that always stands out to me is near the end that whole scene with Ghost Brother and oh by the way if you double die then that's it for you it just felt like they wanted some last minute tension and I thought it was extremely out of place.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:33
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No one can promise that you'll like umineko , but the first chapter is exceptionally bad at getting to any of the interesting bits. It needs a round of editing. That said even the scenes you're watching now, no matter how seemingly innocent, are full of foreshadowing and reveal a lot more about the characters than what initially might seem. About liking the characters... well it depends. Battler is supposed to sound like a pretentious rich kid at first who has fails completely to empathise with others even if he looks like he's trying hard. It's all supposed to look like a really passive aggressive family and they won't get any better. But will be more compelling later on.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:36
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Dessel posted:When does Umineko actually get good? I've got slightly over 6 hours of active playtime and sure there's mystery of extra or not? person on the island but jesus this game reminds me why I can't often stand VNs and their pacing. None of the characters seem that interesting either and the protagonist? seems quite unlikable so far. I was bored of Umineko until maybe the halfway point of Chapter 1. Might have been 2/3. It’s now one of favorite VNs ever. I think Fata Morgana is better as a more consistent work, but Umineko’s highs are really loving high. Also it’s super fun trying to solve the mystery.
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Nov 27, 2018 03:33
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Umineko upholds the fine tradition of "it gets good a dozen hours in" Japanese-style storytelling. The primary plot device doesn't even show itself until a quarter or a third of the way into Episode 2. That said, I still found Episode 1 compelling once poo poo hit the fan, so it wasn't a complete wash. They just really needed to cut like half of the words before that point.
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Nov 27, 2018 23:49
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Umineko EP1 has a lot of Natsuhi being a cool lady and I will always really like it for that.
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Nov 28, 2018 00:07
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It's also incredibly cool and clever in retrospect once you know the solution but it does drag the first time around.
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Nov 28, 2018 01:23
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Yeah Umineko got better towards the end of EP1. Not extremely delighted at EP2 seemingly having bunch of slice of life stuff in the beginning though. I almost wish any solution will have supernatural and non-supernatural parts to it. My itch is that someone is using Beatrice or w/e as a cover and faking it out and everything that happens is not related to supernatural but something is/will be. There's something to be said about a story that takes the reader in for a ride to make them believe the story has occult/supernatural elements to it with the protagonist being strongly opposed of that being true and seemingly a strong theme of making the protagonist believe in elements of supernatural/occult. That could be thought of very covert type of a 4th wall breaking in itself.
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Nov 28, 2018 20:13
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Stole from reddit, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiNSqXGgLTc "When they Cry 5 "Kikonia no Naku Koro ni" preview released"
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Nov 29, 2018 14:39
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Captain Okonogi, huh... Apparently "When the Storks Cry". No idea what to make of the apparent military-focused setting but it seems safe to say that it will be a very different overall setup from the previous.
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Nov 29, 2018 14:55
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The preview has the Witch Hunt team credited as translators so there may be a simultaneous or at least relatively quick English release.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:01
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That looks extremely like it will not be my poo poo but at the same time I think a trailer for Higurashi would make me think the same thing. Heck, Umineko too, if they emphasized the (minor question arc 2-3 spoilers) anime Star Wars servant-demon magic battles. It's 7th Expansion and I'll read it anyway.
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Nov 29, 2018 17:08
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this ain't your grandfather's when they cry
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Nov 29, 2018 18:31
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https://twitter.com/Klashikari/status/1068119390795808768 So yeah not simultaneous
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Nov 29, 2018 18:48
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