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Zurai posted:The majority of sci-fi movies or stories involve significant ground combat at some point except for Star Trek, which is intentionally pacifistic anyway. I'm deeply concerned about this statement.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:38
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If you bombard a planet while your armies are attacking it do you damage your own armies too?
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Nov 26, 2018 22:41
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Zurai posted:No, ground combat has value and should stick around, it just needs to be significantly better than what we have now. The majority of sci-fi movies or stories involve significant ground combat at some point except for Star Trek, which is intentionally pacifistic anyway. It's too important to the overall genre to discard even if it's somewhat unrealistic in principle. Given the focus of the rest of the game, there is just no good way to implement it that isn't a glorified progress bar. It needs to be abstracted and streamlined further, as a function of your fleets/techs/policies, and doubly so if/when we get an overhaul to fleet design and combat mechanics.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:43
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turn off the TV posted:I'm deeply concerned about this statement. It's true though? Trek, as envisioned by Gene Roddenberry, was pretty pacifist. Not in the "no weapons, just flowers" hippy sense, but by canon the Federation for most of its existence barely had a standing navy and the majority of its fleet were science and exploration vessels. They were supposed to use diplomacy whenever possible and protect life. One of Roddenberry's express intents was to show what the future could become if we ended all the infighting on Earth. It has become more warlike in the time since the original series/TNG, but at the origin it's very much about the value of peace. Conspiratiorist posted:Given the focus of the rest of the game, there is just no good way to implement it that isn't a glorified progress bar. Sure there is. Like was said earlier in the thread, forcing fleets to be more than dedicated space combat vessels opens up a ton of room on the ground as well as in space. There are all kinds of ways to improve the ground combat layer to something worth having. Zurai fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 22:43
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turn off the TV posted:I'm deeply concerned about this statement. Well, the Federation is mostly. Klingons and Romulans? Nah.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:47
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Ground combat could really use some attention but simply adding an army manager would go a long way to removing the tedium from the current implementation. Aggressive stance transports help a lot but will incur losses which means more hunting for planets that have the army buildings and manually merging the invasion fleets (which breaks every time the main fleet invades a planet).
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Nov 26, 2018 22:49
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I guess that if you don't count the series where the Federation fights a large scale war involving ground combat then they don't have ground combat at all. Personally I think that's weird but okay.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:49
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The Dominion War is why DS9 was the best series.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:50
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turn off the TV posted:I guess that if you don't count the series where the Federation fights a large scale war involving ground combat then they don't have ground combat at all. Personally I think that's weird but okay. Which series involves large scale ground combat with armies facing off against armies? I'm not being confrontational, I genuinely did not know that there was any serious ground combat in Trek. There's away teams and defending Deep Space 9, but those are much smaller than the scope of ground combat in Stellaris.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:51
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^^^ In the later parts of DS9 there are episodes set in what is essentially infantry combat... obviously with transporters and laser guns the details are much different and probably also way cheaper to film, but it's actual "the Federation has a military battle on a planet." turn off the TV posted:I guess that if you don't count the series where the Federation fights a large scale war involving ground combat then they don't have ground combat at all. Personally I think that's weird but okay. By comparison the second shot in Star Wars (even leaving aside the name) is a shipboard gun battle.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:00
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Zurai posted:Which series involves large scale ground combat with armies facing off against armies? I'm not being confrontational, I genuinely did not know that there was any serious ground combat in Trek. There's away teams and defending Deep Space 9, but those are much smaller than the scope of ground combat in Stellaris. What Nessus said. The DS9 episode, "The Siege of AR-558" is about Federation infantry, having captured a planet with a Dominon communications base, holding it against a 5 month Dominion assault. Other ground battles are also referred to, but not seen on screen. The Cardassians also occupied Bajor for 50 years, of course, and engaged in frequent combat against Bajoran resistance troops, but that would be better be abstracted in game as garrison troops reducing unrest.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:13
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Nessus posted:While true, that happened in the second spinoff series - third if you count the cartoon - and was a major part of the overall arc of the series, as well as being a war that the Federation did not seek save by the most contrarian interpretation of "by existing near me and not being beneath me, you threaten me." (The Romulans and Cardassians earned a whipping, though.) Kirk fighting the Gorn is probably one of the most famous depictions of ground warfare in all of science fiction and it's in TOS. 
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Nov 26, 2018 23:16
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Federation martial arts training centering entirely around sissy-punches and axehandles is kind of an odd choice....
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Nov 26, 2018 23:18
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turn off the TV posted:Kirk fighting the Gorn is probably one of the most famous depictions of ground warfare in all of science fiction and it's in TOS. That's not warfare in the sense that we're talking about re: Stellaris, though. That's more of an event than anything. (To be fair, the referenced Star Wars scene is out of Stellaris's scope too unless we eventually get marine boarding parties)
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Nov 26, 2018 23:18
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Space Opera also has betrayal, intrigue, spies and recognizable characters with personal stories interspersed in grand theaters of war and politics, so it's only right that we get that.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:20
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In retrospect it's pretty reasonable to skip or forget about the ground combat episodes of DS9 because they mostly involve Jake and Nog.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:22
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Zurai posted:That's not warfare in the sense that we're talking about re: Stellaris, though. That's more of an event than anything. (To be fair, the referenced Star Wars scene is out of Stellaris's scope too unless we eventually get marine boarding parties) Ground warfare is difficult to show on any scale without CG because you need a huge number of people. The episodes of Star Trek featuring half a dozen guys on each side were about the best you could get. Things changed a lot with the LOTR battle scenes. (That said, Babylon 5 had a good old stab at showing how ground combat was important in the setting - either directly (GROPOS) or through the lengths people went to to get around it (The Long Twilight Struggle))
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Nov 26, 2018 23:24
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Hi I just bought this game after looking at it for a couple of years now. Took the paradox plunge with HoI4 and EU4 as well. What expansions are worth their weight/price? Grand strategy and 4x is my jam and I can easily see myself dump a few hundred hours a year in this game. Also: who knew of the grand strategy games by paradox that the only one without war crimes is the ww2 game 
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Nov 26, 2018 23:27
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dialhforhero posted:Hi I just bought this game after looking at it for a couple of years now. Took the paradox plunge with HoI4 and EU4 as well. What expansions are worth their weight/price? IMO the only absolute must-have expansion for Stellaris for a new player is Utopia, although some of its features are being released for free with the next major patch on December 6th. Leviathans and Distant Stars are good for once you've explored the possibilities of the base game and are looking for some new stuff to flesh out the midgame, Synthetic Dawn is completely skippable unless you want to play the Geth or Borg or similar machine hive mind-ish races, and Apocalypse is very good but not really "must have". EDIT: Also it should be noted that there's likely to be a big sale on the current DLCs when MegaCorp releases on the 6th, and they'll probably be on deep discount in the Steam Holiday Sale as well.
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Nov 26, 2018 23:30
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Ground warfare is difficult to show on any scale without CG because you need a huge number of people. The episodes of Star Trek featuring half a dozen guys on each side were about the best you could get. Things changed a lot with the LOTR battle scenes. Well, not always. Sometimes when you wanted to film a proper battle scene you just got the Soviet Union to lend you 17,000 soldiers, including a cavalry brigade.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:48
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Okay, which one of you assholes is responsible for making a game so good I spent 82 hours in 3 weeks on it?Dongattack posted:If you bombard a planet while your armies are attacking it do you damage your own armies too? I also have this question
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Nov 27, 2018 00:49
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Potato Salad posted:Okay, which one of you assholes is responsible for making a game so good I spent 82 hours in 3 weeks on it? There are rather a few Paradox Goons around, but I can only remember Wiz and LordMune's names.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:59
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Dongattack posted:If you bombard a planet while your armies are attacking it do you damage your own armies too? Pretty sure that during an actual ground invasion bombardment is paused.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:22
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TalonDemonKing posted:On strike craft: Have destroyers replace Corvettes entirely with their unlock, but once you get cruisers, you can start deploying Corvettes as your strike craft, with whatever you load them out with. That's oddly enough, been attempted, after a fashion. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1460065164 The way he's reprented 'internal space factories' is to make Corvette, Destroyer, Cruiser and Battleship 'strike craft'. They don't use your loadouts/models, but it's a step.
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Nov 27, 2018 01:37
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Zurai posted:Sure there is. Like was said earlier in the thread, forcing fleets to be more than dedicated space combat vessels opens up a ton of room on the ground as well as in space. There are all kinds of ways to improve the ground combat layer to something worth having. I think the "easiest" (keeping in mind that nothing to do with development is ever simply "easy") would be to integrate troop transports into the ship designer. Obviously that also automatically means it's integrated into the fleet designer, so you can get easy reinforcements too. I'd go a step further and make troop transport ship sections for some of the bigger ship types to and I'd absolutely require troops to capture stations (which also means station troop garrison modules if you want a harder-to-take station). If you want to go another step further, make troops able to run out as part of a general supply bar that all fleets deplete when in combat and refill when in friendly territory/at owned starbases to give some more value to fighting near your supply lines so you can't just take infinite planets in a row without resupply. Then if you wanna go even further tie that into a manpower mechanic where troop and ship losses cost manpower to replace (manpower being based on your population, traits, government and policies). But then we're deep into Grand Strategery territory and a lot of work.
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Nov 27, 2018 02:34
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Just went to preorder the expansion and it's $30 :| isn't that a bit steep.
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Nov 27, 2018 06:55
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tithin posted:Just went to preorder the expansion and it's $30 :| isn't that a bit steep. It's $20 on steam and everywhere else I've seen it. Or sometimes slightly less. In US dollars, that is.
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Nov 27, 2018 06:58
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ConfusedUs posted:It's $20 on steam and everywhere else I've seen it. Or sometimes slightly less. Ah yeah, steam changed to aud in my area recently. Still a bit.. eh.
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Nov 27, 2018 07:02
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the australian pricing change is a loving debacle, basically
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Nov 27, 2018 07:18
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:the australian pricing change is a loving debacle, basically I haven't kept up with it at all. knew nothing of it until steam emailed me to say it had happened. fill me in?
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Nov 27, 2018 07:22
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Deceitful Penguin posted:You know, I sometimes wonder if there mightn't be a point to having an actual fixed galaxy that would have real, fixed factions that you could then play around with. So you actually would care about a feature of the galaxy, or know that you should try and grab that wormhole ASAP to control the galactic supply of extra-reality space kittens for great profits or that around a certain year a fallen empire will enter a civil war or some such I've been wanting to make a static map scenario for some time now, but I haven't been able to find any guides on the actual making a literal map part.
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Nov 27, 2018 07:38
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chairface posted:Federation martial arts training centering entirely around sissy-punches and axehandles is kind of an odd choice....
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Nov 27, 2018 07:44
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:the australian pricing change is a loving debacle, basically Do third parties like green man gaming charge less? I use GMG for pretty much all my preorders because they discount more than steam but I'm not sure if that applies to other currencies.
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Nov 27, 2018 08:30
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Gadzuko posted:Do third parties like green man gaming charge less? I use GMG for pretty much all my preorders because they discount more than steam but I'm not sure if that applies to other currencies.
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Nov 27, 2018 10:14
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tithin posted:I haven't kept up with it at all. knew nothing of it until steam emailed me to say it had happened. fill me in? steam now charges in australian dollars. it seems like in all cases things are more expensive than they had been converting from USD prices to AUD, sometimes by more than 10%. so, the australia tax has finally hit steam, really. also, a bunch of publishers didn't set an australia price so you flat out can't buy their games until they set an AUD price. maybe half my wishlist cannot be purchased, during a sale where i had been hoping to buy some.
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Nov 27, 2018 10:17
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You should know, some of those games do have AUD prices, but they don't show up on the wishlist page, you have to click through to the individual game pages to see them.
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Nov 27, 2018 10:52
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Welcome to the same boat Europe is in. Hope you Australians didn't like receiving Steam gifts from people in the USA, unless you wanna jump through hoops to get a key from the Humble store. In Stellaris news: holy gently caress integration of larger empires is the worst. I'm sitting at 85% of the map owned after having let the game run itself with basically no attendance for the last five or six hours and have roughly two more hours to go before the final empire is integrated. There is nothing left to do but wait. Internal politics suck so while integrating I'm at - 0.7 or +0.3 influence per tick, depending on if my Chosen One is in charge. I'm at over +3k on energy and minerals without edicts, +1k food because I cannot be arsed to micro all these loving garbage worlds I'm getting and +3k in every science except engineering where I'm getting 4k because the sector AI doesn't balance the goddamn buildings. Not that it matters, I'm already at over XV on all the relevant repeatable techs. The most exciting times are when the game grinds to a halt when integration finishes and I suddenly get a ginormous malus to my income because of being over the core system and starbase limits and I have to make another sector (why can't the game do this automatically?) and downgrade starbases until the numbers are happy again. I just want this entire map to be done. 
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Nov 27, 2018 10:54
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Zurai posted:It's true though? Trek, as envisioned by Gene Roddenberry, was pretty pacifist. Not in the "no weapons, just flowers" hippy sense, but by canon the Federation for most of its existence barely had a standing navy and the majority of its fleet were science and exploration vessels. They were supposed to use diplomacy whenever possible and protect life. One of Roddenberry's express intents was to show what the future could become if we ended all the infighting on Earth. Even though Trek ended up with more fighting as things progressed the Federation has always preferred to not fight. The issue is that some of the things that showed up don't want peace. Even in the original series there were hostilities between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. At its core the Federation wants to be your buddy but will definitely kick your rear end if you pick a fight with it. Then after it wins will help you up, dust you off, and take you out for a drink to discuss your differences and hopefully not fight again. Pretty much all Star Trek media shows the Federation as an organization that really, really doesn't want to fight you but will if you make it.
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Nov 27, 2018 11:08
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:steam now charges in australian dollars. it seems like in all cases things are more expensive than they had been converting from USD prices to AUD, sometimes by more than 10%. so, the australia tax has finally hit steam, really. Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 11:12
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Splicer posted:Yeah it should be emphasised that prices are set by the publisher. So USD 19.99 is AUD27.64 right now, but that'll get rounded up to 29.99 because it's a nice number. 24.99 is also a nice number but lol @ rounding down. Here in Europe they go the other way, they just swap out the dollar sign for a euro sign for a 10%+ premium. A couple of years ago that premium was way higher too; it's actually smaller now than it's been for years.
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Nov 27, 2018 11:17
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