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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Your work sells even better if you make it be about Rick and Morty or a fetish so tying any personal ego to the idea the quality of your work is measured by its market value is a great recipe for becoming a depressed artist, yet Campbell's stuff was moving exceptionally well for a self-employed artist who doesn't know any billionaires well before they started posting those updates. Literally every indie comics and small press person has sold more poo poo on Kickstarter than on fuckin Twitter, one's a marketplace for buyers seeking smalltime craftspeople that transformed cottage industry and one's a forum for Nazis to shitpost. That's true. I'm just saying I can absolutely see how that experience would provoke a breakdown from someone. Like, the reason they had to beg for money in the first place was because a bunch of Kickstarter backers asked for refunds for books that weren't going to arrive before Christmas, and Campbell gave them the refunds freely because they felt it was the right thing to do, then found themselves in the hole and needing to sell the original art for their strips as a result of doing this basically ethical thing. That's psychologically tough too.
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Nov 18, 2018 17:36
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The Christmas refunds were ruinous because going into it Campbell's pricing structure had them making no/losing money on every book, and trying to make up for it with volume. A bunch of the first wave of Kickstarter adopters wiped out for basically the same reasons, I don't remember which it was who got driven to the poorhouse because they just didn't put a cap on some tiers they'd never checked that they could scale up without hemorrhaging money. We're not disagreeing I'm just making clear how pathological the narrative was that their problem was they were being oppressed by their friends and supporters, and justified in lashing out, because some folks itt were talking about how persuasive and 'courageous' it was.
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Nov 18, 2018 18:44
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The rare good  Oglaf: (rare that it's not not rare that it's good)Panels five through seven are my fav
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Nov 18, 2018 19:03
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Neophyte posted:Panels five through seven are my fav
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Nov 18, 2018 19:26
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Wait did Campbell really spend 30,000 dollars on printing 2000 books because if so, they totally got screwed over by their printer.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:10
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The books did have a built-in compartment designed to contain a dead wasp. Not your standard printer's order, to be sure.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:27
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JethroMcB posted:The books did have a built-in compartment designed to contain a dead wasp. Not your standard printer's order, to be sure. That's true but going to a random website (that I may or may not have used to print comics in the past), $15/book is literally twice the price of what I'm quoted for, for a bigger, full colour book. (It's 4x the cost if we are looking at a greyscale book) If it *is* true that dead wasps had a major role in ruining Campbell's life then wow Fangz fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 14:43
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Off the top of my head I think it was the shipping costs that cause the trouble. That's something that many kickstarters seem neglect to think about and run into trouble with.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:20
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Ebola Dog posted:Off the top of my head I think it was the shipping costs that cause the trouble. That's something that many kickstarters seem neglect to think about and run into trouble with. The account I'm reading says it cost them 30k USD to print 2000 books, then more for the wasps, which left not enough to do shipping, especially after refunds.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:36
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what's the going rate on bulk dead wasps
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Nov 19, 2018 17:41
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what's the going rate on bulk dead wasps all your health and sanity / 10 gross, as far as I can tell
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Nov 19, 2018 17:45
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I thought that wasp thing was a joke. Where do you even get a bunch of dead wasps.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:12
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Galvanik posted:I thought that wasp thing was a joke. Where do you even get a bunch of dead wasps. no it's real I have my wasp book still I remember on the kickstarter the wasps were described as ethically sourced. with some degree of irony. it is a mystery
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Nov 19, 2018 18:18
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Campbell's rant on Kickstarter is really hard to read because it hits home for me. Someone I know was under-medicated for their mental issues for YEARS, and she sounded JUST like that. Right down to wanting to be supported as an artist without being required to produce work. Now that she's on the right medication, she has a job and can function in society again, and is embarrassed about her previous actions. I hope Campbell also got the help they need, but I somehow doubt it. :/
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Nov 19, 2018 18:18
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campbells actually right, its just that human sanity involves accepting the status quo to a certain extent the appropriate response to the world we live in only manages to not be burning it all down because thatll gently caress the rest of the environment even more lmao
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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the solution to 'capitalism is a plague destroying us, the earth, and all we hold dear' is not 'if you care about me at all as a person, then give me money for nothing in return so that i personally get to live outside of capitalism' imo hopefully campbell is in a better headspace these days and doing okay, but i doubt we'll ever hear from again given how throughly they went to torch their online presence
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Nov 19, 2018 19:49
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Tollymain posted:campbells actually right, its just that human sanity involves accepting the status quo to a certain extent That's the frustrating part when dealing with a loved one with this kind of mental illness - you can't really argue with any of their points. Yes, the world is hosed up, yes, things are incredibly unfair, and yes there's basically gently caress-all we can do about it. We all accept that because we still need to try and live our lives in a healthy and mostly happy way, because what the gently caress else are we going to do? But when someone close to you decides, no, I'm going to opt out, I have no desire to be happy when there's suffering and inequality, and gently caress everyone else who isn't dropping of society out with me. Everyone has already been judged by their very, very strict moral code, found wanting because they're not starving in the street with a picket sign, and therefore they are not worthy of basic human decency. It's loving heartbreaking to experience firsthand, and the only real solution is finding the proper medication (at least in my case). Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 20:34
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AriadneThread posted:the solution to 'capitalism is a plague destroying us, the earth, and all we hold dear' is not 'if you care about me at all as a person, then give me money for nothing in return so that i personally get to live outside of capitalism' imo I always had a vague idea that their KS burn-out had some kind of rhetorical argument? Like, that they were trying, albeit really ineffectually, to push the general idea of a basic income? Or am I way off base.
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Nov 19, 2018 21:07
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Joe Slowboat posted:I always had a vague idea that their KS burn-out had some kind of rhetorical argument? Like, that they were trying, albeit really ineffectually, to push the general idea of a basic income? I mean, it's online and you can still read it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/759318 quote:All right: I want direct funding for my living necessities. I want to establish relationships with a group of people who can pay for my baseline needs like food and rent. I am looking for people who do not feel they need to see any “return” on their “investment.” I am looking for people who understand that money is a bad joke we use to hurt each other. I’m looking for people who like me were born with a lot of privileges but who have had the awareness and emotional stability to keep their bucket under the faucet when the money comes out.
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Nov 19, 2018 21:53
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I think it weirded them out that there were people who could afford the $500 and $1000 tiers and liked their work. Would weird me out too. The same amount of money is so trivial to some people and life-or-death to others.
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Nov 19, 2018 23:19
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Ditocoaf posted:I think it weirded them out that there were people who could afford the $500 and $1000 tiers and liked their work. Would weird me out too. The same amount of money is so trivial to some people and life-or-death to others. Why? That's literally what an art patron is. I live in San Diego, and more than half the exhibits at the zoo are named after Conrad Prebys, some guy who gave a LOT of money. It wouldn't be the place it is without that. It's the same philosophy behind Patreon - I haven't seen the numbers, but I assume the higher tier backers are what really keep artists afloat. Their reaction was to recoil from the fact the backers WANTED something for the money. That disgusts them. But doing nothing for the same money... That's ok somehow? It's very twisted logic, especially when you consider that they STILL would be leaning on their privilege - the only reason anyone would choose Campbell in particular to support to do nothing is because they knew his comic.
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Nov 19, 2018 23:33
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Joe Slowboat posted:I always had a vague idea that their KS burn-out had some kind of rhetorical argument? Like, that they were trying, albeit really ineffectually, to push the general idea of a basic income? there was a follow-up e-mail, like, a year later to people that had asked to stay in touch re-reading it now, it's not quite as emotionally manipulative as i remember but the basic gist was, subscribe to them via PayPal for $20 a month for the project of 'being alive' if you thought they were valuable enough person to keep alive.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:27
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Fangz posted:If it *is* true that dead wasps had a major role in ruining Campbell's life then wow
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Nov 20, 2018 01:05
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campbell is the van gogh of our generation
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Nov 20, 2018 01:06
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Why? That's literally what an art patron is. I live in San Diego, and more than half the exhibits at the zoo are named after Conrad Prebys, some guy who gave a LOT of money. It wouldn't be the place it is without that. It's the same philosophy behind Patreon - I haven't seen the numbers, but I assume the higher tier backers are what really keep artists afloat. Leaving aside the specifics of Campbell's whole meltdown, it's pretty hosed up to be barely surviving day to day and suddenly brought face-to-face with the fact that there's people in your social circle who have so much personal wealth they can just throw thousands of dollars away on an idle whim and see nothing exceptional about that. "gently caress you why am I living like this then" is a pretty natural response, and the knowledge that, like, robber barons have existed in the abstract doesn't really prepare you for the disgusting reality. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 04:34
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Depression is hard to live with and hard to witness. But you shouldn't try to argue with a disease.
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Nov 20, 2018 08:45
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AriadneThread posted:subscribe to them via PayPal for $20 a month for the project of 'being alive' if you thought they were valuable enough person to keep alive. No that doesn't sound emotionally manipulative at all. In equal measure I hope that they were able to get the help they needed and that we never hear from them again.
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Nov 22, 2018 09:07
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perhaps the saga is only beginning
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Nov 22, 2018 15:51
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personally i feel campbell's being ridiculously passive-aggressive about it if i ever find myself in a hole i cant see out of im just going to self-immolate in front of the police bureau
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Nov 22, 2018 15:56
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Just Offscreen posted:No that doesn't sound emotionally manipulative at all. yeah, i went with that phrasing because that's still my take-away even if it's not as bad as i remember it being i'd offer to share the letter so people could decide for themselves but it's long and rambly plus it'd feel like a privacy violation Tollymain posted:perhaps the saga is only beginning that's the last thing i heard from them, and that was three years ago, so i doubt it? campbell offered to keep in touch with ~life subscribers~ but i don't know anyone that took up the offer
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Nov 22, 2018 16:34
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 you know, i didnt think that lulenski could make this look any more like a worse idea without verging into farce but i was wrong  on the other hand over in never satisfied im not at all surprised by how many questions corny manages to avoid answering while opening up new ones lmao Tollymain fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 13:11
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also jeds time w us in a ghost story might be coming to an end how terrible lmao i hope he somehow comes back having learned absolutely nothing  e: also hey paradise is back 
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Nov 27, 2018 04:14
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So this is making the rounds... https://twitter.com/Polygon/status/1067452621315891200 and I know it's a normal clickbait thing to make a list that's like half correct and half trash so that people get angry and talk about it, but it makes me wonder what the real non-Homestuck influential webcomics are? Gunshow, Dinosaur Comics, 8-Bit Theater, and Perry Bible Fellowship are glaringly missing. Hell, even Lackadaisy deserves a nod for how much it elevated artistic expectations.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:16
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Kelly Turnbull had a short thread about MGDMT and some of the related things going on https://twitter.com/Coelasquid/status/1067568099908476929 it's kind of rough in spots
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Nov 28, 2018 05:23
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Hi! I'm Wanda Lulenski, and welcome to Jackass!
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Nov 28, 2018 05:26
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QC isn't influential because it's good, it's influential because it's hipster Marmaduke and has also somehow managed to create a merchandising empire because what JJ is really good at is Hot Topic t-shirt design.rannum posted:Kelly Turnbull had a short thread about MGDMT and some of the related things going on
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Nov 28, 2018 05:28
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PMush Perfect posted:QC isn't influential because it's good, it's influential because it's hipster Marmaduke and has also somehow managed to create a merchandising empire because what JJ is really good at is Hot Topic t-shirt design. I suppose it's "influential" in the same way any shambling comic that updates out of financial obligations is. Being known and part of the culture out of sheer inertia. Maybe we'll get lucky and it'll get Olivia James'd in 30 years? rannum posted:Kelly Turnbull had a short thread about MGDMT and some of the related things going on Manly Guys has a sweet message, but I don't blame her for wanting to move on to things that don't involve making a video game webcomic.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:37
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Nuns with Guns posted:So this is making the rounds... A Lesson Is Learned should be on here
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Nov 28, 2018 05:40
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Nuns with Guns posted:I suppose it's "influential" in the same way any shambling comic that updates out of financial obligations is. Being known and part of the culture out of sheer inertia.
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Nov 28, 2018 05:40
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thrilla in vanilla posted:A Lesson Is Learned should be on here agree i'd put it in place of dresden codak, imo i don't know about 8-bit theatre being a 'most important' did it really leave that big an impact beside being 'the other good sprite comic'?
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Nov 28, 2018 05:49
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