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skipThings posted:then go out and fight for the sovereignity of Ukraine and leave this messageboard behind, until then it's just you being an armchair chauvinist One might as well fight for the sovereignty of Narnia.
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Nov 29, 2018 23:55
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I love Calormen and Narnia, which is part of Calormen
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Nov 30, 2018 00:00
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1983 is on netflix and though I had time to see the first 3 minutes or so, it's definitely set in Eastern Europe and looks to be close to The Man in the High Castle for Slavs.
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Nov 30, 2018 10:18
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https://twitter.com/PavloKlimkin/status/1068500599652651011 The captured are being transferred to Moscow for a show trial.
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Dec 1, 2018 04:31
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HorrificExistence posted:https://twitter.com/PavloKlimkin/status/1068500599652651011 They were in Moscow jail Lefortovo 2 days ago, according to their lawyer.
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Dec 1, 2018 08:24
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The last captured Ukrainian soldier imprisoned in Russia turned into a military-coup-planning Manchurian candidate upon her return to Kiev. Not that it's going to happen again, but I just remembered, and it's pretty amusing.
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Dec 1, 2018 09:25
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steinrokkan posted:The last captured Ukrainian soldier imprisoned in Russia turned into a military-coup-planning Manchurian candidate upon her return to Kiev. Can you give more details to this id like to know more.
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Dec 1, 2018 09:27
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LeoMarr posted:Can you give more details to this id like to know more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadiya_Savchenko On 15 March 2018, the Attorney General of Ukraine Yuriy Lutsenko charged Savchenko with preparing a terrorist attack on the Ukrainian parliament.[86] According to Lutsenko, she planned dropping the building of the Verkhovna Rada using mortar fire and finish off all survived members of the Rada with automatic weapons.[87] On 15 March 2018 Lutsenko asked parliament to annul Savchenko’s parliamentary immunity in order to prosecute and arrest her.[87] Savchenko believes that Ukraine should become "more or less a dictatorship" with a strong leader to stand up to Russia and win,[91] with Augusto Pinochet, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel, Ronald Reagan and Nelson Mandela as examples.[91] Savchenko has suggested Ukraine should accept the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea as an attempt to end the War in Donbass.[91] Mokotow fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Dec 1, 2018 |
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Dec 1, 2018 09:48
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Mokotow posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadiya_Savchenko poo poo all she need 50 packs of ramen noodles this story is bonkers
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Dec 1, 2018 20:40
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What would happen if Russia rolls the tanks into Kiev right now? Nothing? There would be a lot of stern words, some fairly toothless sanctions, a ton of germans whining about how we shouldn't antagonize putin and his delicious gas and this is all western imperialism that forced poor Russia into this situation, Poland going apeshit and doubling their military spending, but ultimately Russia would take and hold Ukraine and it would just become the status quo like with Crimea? Putin would make some subtle comments about his willingness to use nukes *defensively* if any Russian territory was invaded and Ukraine is and always will be Russia and half of europe would rush to appease him and accuse anyone who even wants tougher sanctions of trying to start WWIII, we just need to let russia have their rightful puppet countries so they feel safe and Mr. Putin will settle down. Trump would again go on about europe not pulling their weight and how the US should maybe leave NATO and stop paying for Europe's sovereignty.
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Dec 1, 2018 23:17
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Sounds about right, sadly. Best response I imagine EU mustering is more sanctions that don’t affect Russian energy exports.
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Dec 1, 2018 23:46
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What would happen is probably that the Russian military would implode. That's honestly the one thing keeping Russia from invading. And, of course, they still rely on foreign consumer goods, but I think they would be able to replace the bulk of the current flows by using proxy markets if needed.
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Dec 1, 2018 23:50
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Baronjutter posted:What would happen if Russia rolls the tanks into Kiev right now? Nothing? I won’t say it won’t happen because the last ~25 years did, but it certainly would be the end of the Russian Federation as we know and love.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:15
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Maybe I'm placing too much faith into diplomatic  in TYOL 2018, but I just think the Russian army blitzing its way through Eastern and Southern Ukraine all the way to Kyiv would be a bit too much in terms of a raw display of power. Not in terms of what the West would think about it, mind you, but what Putin considers to be the larger Russian nation (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus). What I mean is that yes, it would definitely deliver Ukraine under Russian control, but also it would be such a blatant forced occupation of a people that were considered "brotherly" to the Russians just five years ago that I can't see it happening.The Novorossiya project and trying to split Ukraine into two greatly relied on the Russians facing practically no to very little resistance in Ukraine, but after it turned out that wouldn't be the case, they can't afford the kind of immense public image damage that a full-blown invasion would entail. It would forever ruin any kind of hope for Ukraine returning to the Russian sphere under diplomatic means, which could still conceivably happen under the present circumstances after a long enough time has passed. Russia cannot afford what a full-blown invasion would forever do to the image of Russia in the eyes of Ukrainians, who would have to be slaughtered in huge numbers in the case of such an invasion.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:16
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The question isn't whether it would be a too blatant show of force (it would, self-evidently), but what response could follow such a blatant show of force. The answer is, Ukraine's best defense is that it is exponentially more expensive to have troops deployed abroad than sitting at the border, rattling sabers.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:18
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Baronjutter posted:What would happen if Russia rolls the tanks into Kiev right now? Nothing? Russias military still uses rail for transort across their own territory.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:18
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LeoMarr posted:Russias military still uses rail for transort across their own territory. And the point is??? Rail is still the most efficient means of moving heavy things over land. They do have other transport options should operational needs demand them. If anything, it was pointed out during the Crimea crisis that the Russians had a greater ability to dynamically pull troops from well behind the frontlines than their European counterparts. Lots of the guys who ended up in Crimea or Donetsk / Lugansk were relocated straight from Siberia rather than from closer, European republics.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:20
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steinrokkan posted:And the point is??? Rail is still the most efficient means of moving heavy things over land. They do have other transport options should operational needs demand them. If anything, it was pointed out during the Crimea crisis that the Russians had a greater ability to dynamically pull troops from well behind the frontlines than their European counterparts. Lots of the guys who ended up in Crimea or Donetsk / Lugansk were relocated straight from Siberia rather than from closer, European republics. In non-contested, home territory. Every rail bridge along the way would be blown to bits within days, though I admit I’m probably overestimating Ukrainian armed forces.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:37
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As I said, they have other transport capabilities for battle operations. It makes no sense to condemn them for using transportation ideal for uncontested home territory in uncontested home territory.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:38
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Baronjutter posted:What would happen if Russia rolls the tanks into Kiev right now? Nothing? This is correct. The fact that Russia hasn't rolled out the tanks is pretty telling.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:41
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LeoMarr posted:Russias military still uses rail for transort across their own territory. The US does too so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with this one.
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Dec 2, 2018 00:44
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but you see, trains are OOOOLd, all the cool kids use the hyperloop
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Dec 2, 2018 00:44
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CountFosco posted:This is correct. The fact that Russia hasn't rolled out the tanks is pretty telling. They did. Several times. That's what reversed the war back when Ukrainian troops had nearly recaptured the entire border and encircled the last few Russian-backed strongholds. The Ukrainians adapted pretty quickly, though, and destroyed/captured a bunch of said tanks as the lines solidified (after several major attacks failed). Warbadger fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Dec 2, 2018 |
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Dec 2, 2018 03:56
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CountFosco posted:This is correct. The fact that Russia hasn't rolled out the tanks is pretty telling. Why would they do that? An all-out war would bankrupt them even before all the costs from destroyed infrastructure in Ukraine. And it might back-fire domestically too. Extreme nationalists would applaud but for ordinary people there's a difference between supporting poor oppressed Russian minorities and invading a foreign capital with tanks.
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Dec 2, 2018 12:26
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They already increased age of retirement because there are no finances and Putin's approval ratings took massive hit. And it seems that military involvement in Syria is already perceived by some as a waste of money. I guess some quick show of power might be met with increase in popularity, but that would exclude invasion and Ukraine's military is probably already more experienced than in 2014 and well, military expenditures is one of reasons why Soviet union collapsed. But politicians often do stupid things.
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Dec 2, 2018 12:45
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https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2018/12/02/788105-putin-liberalizovat Putin announces a plan to give Ukrainians Russian citizenship.
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Dec 2, 2018 21:04
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Can you elaborate or provide an english source? What are the terms that it is issued on?
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Dec 2, 2018 21:12
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Slashrat posted:Can you elaborate or provide an english source? What are the terms that it is issued on? To quote, 'We are not going to put in place any limitations for Ukrainian citizens. Moreover, we're going to make the conditions of their stay in Russia and, if they so desire, obtaining Russian citizenship more accessible.' That's all there is about it for now. It may not even happen, Putin is just trying to show that good Russia is doing everything for de-escalation, while evil Ukraine is becoming (even more of) a nazi dictatorship.
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Dec 2, 2018 21:17
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Paladinus posted:To quote, 'We are not going to put in place any limitations for Ukrainian citizens. Moreover, we're going to make the conditions of their stay in Russia and, if they so desire, obtaining Russian citizenship more accessible.' Yup then whe theres Huge amount of ukrainians with russian citizens he can go full hitler and say " I am protecting native russians from tyranny" and invade
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Dec 2, 2018 21:48
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LeoMarr posted:Yup then whe theres Huge amount of ukrainians with russian citizens he can go full hitler and say " I am protecting native russians from tyranny" and invade There are about 3 million Ukrainians living or working in Russia, not counting Crimeans who might have dual citizenship.
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Dec 2, 2018 22:11
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Baronjutter posted:What would happen if Russia rolls the tanks into Kiev right now? Nothing? Never going to happen. There is literally nothing of sufficient value left in the Ukraine for foreign power to even want. Most of the heavy industries were in Donbass region, now either destroyed in fighting or taken west/eastward, according to their owners' political allegiances. Crimea is a done deal, with an easy to defend borders and huge geopolitical value. All that's left is 53 million strong aging population, mostly in poverty, with declining education and healthcare standards. You could argue for gas pipelines control, but that matter is being resolved way cheaper by building them undersea.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:45
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53 million? come on
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Dec 3, 2018 18:08
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chesnok posted:Never going to happen. There is literally nothing of sufficient value left in the Ukraine for foreign power to even want. Most of the heavy industries were in Donbass region, now either destroyed in fighting or taken west/eastward, according to their owners' political allegiances. Crimea is a done deal, with an easy to defend borders and huge geopolitical value. All that's left is 53 million strong aging population, mostly in poverty, with declining education and healthcare standards. The agricultural potential of the Ukraine is not to be underestimated.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:32
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Baronjutter posted:but ultimately Russia would take and hold Ukraine and it would just become the status quo like with Crimea? I don't know about the ukraine, but crimea was/is full of russians.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:46
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spacetoaster posted:I don't know about the ukraine, but crimea was/is full of russians. ~17% of Ukrainian citizens are ethnically Russian. But that's counting Crimea, of course, which is pretty much the only region with a Russian majority.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:55
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Paladinus posted:~17% of Ukrainian citizens are ethnically Russian. But that's counting Crimea, of course, which is pretty much the only region with a Russian majority. Yeah, my inlaws and grandparents were living there when it (crimea) was still a part of russia (originally given over to ukraine in 1954). I'm not up to date on legal stuff, but the crimeans I know always said they were some kind of republic (and sported their own flag too) for years before this happened. Kinda like texas is always carrying on about in the US I guess. spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 23:48
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Crimea was an autonomous republic in the Russian SSR, until the genocide through deportation of the Crimean Tatars and their replacement with Russians. After that was done, it was demoted to a simple oblast. Then in 1954 it was transferred to Ukraine, as it made sense to Khrushchev (I'm assuming his reasoning was that since Crimea's only land connection is with Ukraine, it simplified logistics). With the independence of Ukraine in 1991, Crimea was back as an autonomous republic. Then Putin staged his takeover in 2014.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:18
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Cat Mattress posted:Crimea was an autonomous republic in the Russian SSR, until the genocide through deportation of the Crimean Tatars and their replacement with Russians. After that was done, it was demoted to a simple oblast. Then in 1954 it was transferred to Ukraine, as it made sense to Khrushchev (I'm assuming his reasoning was that since Crimea's only land connection is with Ukraine, it simplified logistics). With the independence of Ukraine in 1991, Crimea was back as an autonomous republic. Then Putin staged his takeover in 2014. All the water/electricity/transport of goods came in via land from Ukraine. While the majority was Russian ethnically, that wasn't considered a huge deal by most Soviets/Ukrainians (whatever ethnicity) so it still made sense to leave the peninsula administratively attached to the rest of the contiguous territory that it was reliant upon. They had a pretty warm view of Ukraine compared to certain other former SSRs and didn't choose to utterly gently caress them over to keep the naval base (until 2014). Warbadger fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 03:57
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Lot of ceasefire violations and troop movements in donetsk. Mariupol seems to be the biggest target as if it falls ukraine is crippled. Seems like this is going to be q larger offensive than just the boats
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Dec 5, 2018 21:55
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How viable is the mid-point between the status quo and toppling Kyiv, taking Mariupol and all the intervening territory up to the land connection to Crimea, creating a contiguous land territory out of their official and unofficial gains?
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Dec 5, 2018 22:36
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