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KazigluBey posted:I was talking to a friend of mine about magic in Warhams and this came up, is there any source for this bit of trivia? Like, that specifically the way Teclis taught humans was something Elves would never do? I'm not doubting you, I've heard this before from other people, just trying to nail where in the lore it's mentioned specifically. i cant find the thing i had that specifically stated it, but its also just implied by the way magic works in warhammer world. basically when chaos blows into the world through the warp gates, it splits into 8 winds of magic, each embodying both a physical and philosophical aspect of the world. the elves are very sensitive to these currents, and can master each individual wind, or even all eight winds, pretty easily. but channeling stuff from any one wind will corrupt the caster in some way over time. the only way that is safe for an elf to cast magic without being corrupted is to recombine all eight winds in a balanced, harmonious way. doing that is High Magic, aka Qhaysh, and it takes a super loving long time to learn and takes a lot of patience. Humans can also sense the winds of magic, but to a lesser, cruder degree. humans are capable of casting spells through sheer force of will, but when they do so they use a muddled mixture of whatever winds happen to be nearby at the time, which is what the elves call Dhar, or dark magic. both approaches use all eight winds, but only one is balanced. think of it like the difference between using 8 colours of paint to paint a nice picture, vs mixing a random amount of 8 colours of paint together then smearing the canvas in hosed-up brown. the extra problem with dhar is that as the winds of magic are formed from chaos splitting apart, recombining the winds without proper technique gets you a form of chaos back, so its corrupting and leads to demon possession, insanity, and the chaos gods talking to you. Teclis is a good guy compared to the other high elves, and he saw value in going over to the human lands to help them out with their magic, because even if the elves and humans might go to war at some point in the future, it would be more valuable in the long run to teach the humans some form of safe magic so they could better fight against chaos. up until this point in the empire magic users had been hunted down and put to death by the witch hunters, because of the aforementioned risks of dark magic. Priests could cast miracles safely using faith, and even though Teclis knew they were basically still using the winds of magic to do it, each god was related to one wind or another, so they were just channeling a single wind. so he figured out pretty quickly that humans could only grasp one wind at a time safely, and trying to master several winds would lead them into dark magical ways as they hosed up. the long term risk of using one wind of magic was being corrupted by that wind, but the long term in this case was about the lifespan of a normal human anyway. to use an analogy, its probably fine for you to take up smoking crack if you only have 6 months to live. but a human lifespan is like the length of an afternoon for an elf, so any elf casting just aqshy (wind of fire) would find himself very very rapidly having his blood turn into fire and become obsessed with burning everything down. so teclis split the humans into 8 colleges, each mastering one wind. confusing matters slightly is True Dhar, which is like the inverse of High Magic. It's when all the winds of magic get mashed together through sheer force of will / environmental factors. but instead of being a disproportionate mess of existing winds, it's something new. Its usually used by dark elves, because instead of requiring care and patience it requires Being A Huge Dickhead. naggarond is shaped specifically to condense dhar. i wanted to do a breakdown of each wind and other lore of magic here, but imgur isnt accepting my uploads right now and i think the post will get really tiresome with no pics
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Dec 3, 2018 05:46
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Panfilo posted:Going back to playing Brettonia and I feel like they got outclassed through power creep, even with the updated research. The answer to everything brettonia is more knights. Who cares about their infantry? Did a Brettonia run recently and it was great fun. Being able to recruit armies with no extra upkeep allows you to have a lot more armies than other factions. The economy system explodes in size after a while as well. The main negative is how bad the AI is at recruiting the right type of units and is why Brettonia gets hammered.
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Dec 3, 2018 05:55
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Cardiac posted:The answer to everything brettonia is more knights. Who cares about their infantry? I don't like how they made infantry so pointless though. With each peasant unit using '1' peasant resource, why bother with Peasant mobs when you could take a trebuchet, light cav, or squires? It just becomes a really arbitrary thing. Their stats are below average and taking them can potentially handicap your economy. Here's how I would have done the Peasant system: Make it work like Skaven Food system, in that there's a meter with 5 quintiles. This represents the economic strain or benefit you have based on how many peasants you've recruited. The point system is more granular, so you can take lots of peasant mobs and it won't affect your economy as much as taking lots of squires (we can assume the barebones units were literally just mundane serfs and gofers at home, while the higher tier infantry represent more skilled professions that suffer a lack of manpower. Since there's 5 quintiles, two of them represent economic bonuses you receive from having a surplus of manpower. You also have one-off ways of getting more, just like Skaven do; vs other human factions you defeat in battle, you can put them to work to temporarily boost your peasant capacity. Both types of buildings could then be changed up, the windmill and warehouse buildings now being capital-only but applying the bonus to the entire province, so while its not a big deal in Brettonia proper grabbing up a 4 settlement province can reap some serious money, and more importantly it frees up a lot more of your building slots in minor settlements. Both types would now be affected by the Peasant system, but they would be affected differently; Farms would get bigger money bonuses and penalties, but the base value would now be comparatively lower, while industry buildings would get less extreme fluctuations, but have a higher base value. Farms would also minorly affect growth and replenishment, while industry buildings would affect global trade goods produced, port income and construction time.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:22
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Grondoth posted:Anyone else's Allariel like... a bloodthirsty warlord? She's decided to start wars of conquest all over Ulthuan, it's kinda crazy 
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Dec 3, 2018 06:37
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Alarielle is the wife of the current Phoenix King, right? Why doesn't he really have a role in the game? Why is Tyrion more important?
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Dec 3, 2018 06:46
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Panfilo posted:I don't like how they made infantry so pointless though. With each peasant unit using '1' peasant resource, why bother with Peasant mobs when you could take a trebuchet, light cav, or squires? It just becomes a really arbitrary thing. Their stats are below average and taking them can potentially handicap your economy. Peasants are decent tar pits that cost nothing and can hold the enemy in place for your cavalry to do the killing. With techs, skills and a grail reliqae they are about as viable as spearmen for tar pitting and arrow catching, but cheaper.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:51
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Grondoth posted:Anyone else's Allariel like... a bloodthirsty warlord? She's decided to start wars of conquest all over Ulthuan, it's kinda crazy Every time. She bee-lines for the Sword and paints the top half of Ulthwan green with it while Tyrion takes the bottom half. In my last game, something glitched out and she kept taking it. Every hero in her stack had a loving Sword of Khaine and by the time I found out they'd all fully charged. Y'ever see a Elf Mage solo half an army? I sure have  juggalo baby coffin posted:spoopy friends Olynder's a cool character. I doubt she or the rest of the AoS characters (maybe including the daemon ones like Horticulus? idk the Warp's weird) will make it in Kyrdoss Valentian, The Craven King  A real piece of work in life, Kyrdoss was last in line for the throne of his homeland and slowly murdered his way through his brothers through a variety of assassinations, accidents and kidnappings until he was the only one of the royal bloodline left. Unfortunately for him all his brothers had sworn oaths to Naggy at their coronations and soon the Big Hat man himself came to town to find out why he was getting all their souls way too soon. Because Naggy's hat in AoS is dishing out ironic punishments, he served up an entire platter after ripping Kyrdoss's soul out and binding it to never find peace. He installed The Craven King to be Lady Olynder's consort to ensure he'd always be below someone else despite the royal station, enchanted Kyrdoss's throne so that his soul was tethered to it but can never ever actually sit upon it and then conjured up a pair of heralds that proclaim every foul deed Kyrdoss ever did and constantly ridicule him day and night. Naturally this leaves The Craven King a little pissed off, his only outlet for it to fly into a berserker rage upon taking to the battlefield venting his frustrations on the living. Reikenor, the Grimhailer  Once the Sorcerer-King of a nation of scholars and mystics, Reikenor travelled the realms in search a way to conquer death itself, training himself in the lores of Death and Life magic in a selfless quest. Naturally this pissed off Nagash something fierce when he found out, manifesting himself in person when Reikenor was on the precipice of a breakthrough. Their duel lasted days but eventually Naggy got the upper hand and Reikenor was skeletonised. Now he flies from realm to realm as Nagash's personal herald and reaper of souls, a Grim Reaper figure that haunts the eight realms with his now seriously amplified death magics. Fun hobby fact, Reikenor's model is part of the "easy to build" range. That entire thing can be assembled without glue and is 11 parts total including the molded base. Plastics tech has come a long way. Keldrek, Knight of Shrouds  A character made for the Malign Portents campaign, he never got any actual unique rules or a model, just using the Knight of Shrouds model here with his name on the box. In life, Keldrek was an honourable knight of a kingdom that revered Sigmar, but Keldrek was a pretty secular sort. The kingdom got ran over by a bunch of Chaos boys and Keldrek's entire order was slaughtered in a valiant final charge which caught Sigmar's attention. Sigmar called all the souls of the slain knights to be reborn as Stormcast, but at the last moment Keldrek hesitated, instead throwing his lot in with Nagash who gladly took the traitor's soul. Keldrek was reborn in undeath as the first of the Knights of Shrouds, champions of Nagash made from souls that rejected Sigmar in death. During the events of Malign Portents, Keldrek gathered together followers of Nagash and ensured everything was in place for Hatboy's big plan. Unfortunately, he to forgot Skaven are a thing and failed to stop the Skaven selflessly saving everyone from being turned into ghosts.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:58
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SHISHKABOB posted:Alarielle is the wife of the current Phoenix King, right? Why doesn't he really have a role in the game? Why is Tyrion more important? Finubar II, the current Phoenix King, isn't really a battlefield leader. He's known as the Seafarer. His whole shtick is that he's a cosmopolitan moderate in Elven politics, basically. He travelled a ton when he was younger. Other Phoenix Kings were decidedly more hands-on in their approach to ruling and fighting. Finubar isn't like that. Also he's pretty underdeveloped in the lore in comparison to almost all the past Phoenix Kings. During the End Times he secludes himself, comes to the realization that Malekith is The One True King (tm) and commits suicide. Tyrion is by far more active and has a more developed backstory while fulfilling the same 'charismatic commander who fights good' niche. I feel like this is another reason as to why we didn't get Eltharion, one of the oldest characters in the Warhammer universe (as in, he's been a character for far longer than most named lords currently in the game). There isn't really notorious about him aside from being a warrior/caster, riding a griffon and hating greenskins.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:59
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SHISHKABOB posted:Alarielle is the wife of the current Phoenix King, right? Why doesn't he really have a role in the game? Why is Tyrion more important?
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Dec 3, 2018 06:59
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SteelMentor posted:Every time. She bee-lines for the Sword and paints the top half of Ulthwan green with it while Tyrion takes the bottom half. In my last game, something glitched out and she kept taking it. Every hero in her stack had a loving Sword of Khaine and by the time I found out they'd all fully charged. hell yeah, these guys are cool, thanks for the post! i dont know about any age of sigmar guys yet, i just saw lady olynder while googling mortarchs also what everyone else said, finubar is a big time wimp who got elected via conspiracy by nobles who wanted someone they could push around. the high elf line of succession is super corrupt and shady, down to the kings they pick not actually going through asuryans magic flame, just lying and saying they did. malekith got burned to poo poo cause he was the first guy who actually did it but because everyone else had lied about it he didnt know you were supposed to get burned, he thought you were meant to pass through unharmed. so he jumped out, not knowing that you are actually meant to get burned and THEN healed. hence the name phoenix king. malekith was always the rightful king, he just got hosed over and took it badly. and his mom is evil.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:37
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Malekith got trolled hard lol.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:48
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The Crotch posted:Saurus warriors are great, though I think most people run temple guard-centric armies for Mazdamundi, since he gets them cheaper. A pure saurus army is going to start running in to trouble later in the game, of course; Clan Rictus' policy of "minimum 5 doomwheels in every late-game army" requires some dinosaurs to deal with. I usually take around 7 units of line infantry in each lizard army (pure temple guard for Mazda, 5-6 saurus warriors and 0-2 temple guard for regular armies). If you're lucky, you get lots of quests for blessed saurus warriors - easily my favourite blessed unit. But dinos, heroes (on dinos), kroxigors, and chameleons are all really valuable. Ya, I just ran into one of said doom wheel stacks (only two really) and it hit me with a garrison that had a lot more going on then I expected. Won the battle, but lost most of my saurus. Gonna end that game there, I really had spread myself too thin and didn't feel like doing a rebuild up. I think starting as HE made me really paranoid about multiple lords because they get hit with that scaling cost super hard. Is there a rule of thumb for when you should be rolling another lord? My gut says something like (n lords + 1) *1000 = get new lord. So if you have 3 lords and have 4k economy, you can grab a new lord and get a good stack going, and once the econ gets up to 5k, grab another, so on and so forth.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:59
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Panfilo posted:Malekith got trolled hard lol. he does at least get to be his fursona in age of sigmar
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Dec 3, 2018 08:27
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Kanos posted:This is entirely correct; Teclis taught humans to focus on single lores of magic because it's the only way a human could actually become an adept spellcaster in their lifespan. Big boy human wizards who dive super deep into one lore can be just as good as elves or whatever - at casting that one lore. It’s canon that that fire-obsessed elf wizard would also get to ride a dragon at the hero level... so are they REALLY losing out? My gut instinct says hell no! E: also, somehow no one has mentioned the politically contentious fact that Tyrion and Alarielle are banging. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 08:44
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SHISHKABOB posted:Alarielle is the wife of the current Phoenix King, right? Why doesn't he really have a role in the game? Why is Tyrion more important? Phoenix Kings are elected for their political acumen and acceptability to all the various opposing factions in the High Elven court. Sometimes this results in a warrior king, sometimes not. As mentioned upthread, Finubar, the current guy, is a really good politician who is adept at balancing the many, many factions in High Elf society but is not so great at cracking heads open. Thankfully, he's on super good terms with Tyrion, who is the second greatest high elven fighter ever born after Aenarion, so Tyrion is his chosen champion/general. Finubar mostly sits at home and handles political matters while Tyrion does all the Warhammer things like fighting. Finubar's skillset and talents would be completely useless in a game like Total War because he is explicitly not a fighting kind of dude. Edgar Allen Ho posted:E: also, somehow no one has mentioned the politically contentious fact that Tyrion and Alarielle are banging. Alarielle is technically Finubar's wife by law since she's the Everqueen and he's the Phoenix King, but it's basically a ceremonial position. The two of them were required to get married and bang at least once, but after that it's sort of understood that both are free to play the field, even if it's not officially acknowledged; Finubar is aware that Tyrion is Alarielle's side piece and is willing to tactfully overlook it since Tyrion and Finubar have a great working relationship and Tyrion is amazingly useful, and Alarielle is willing to tactfully ignore the fact that basically every Phoenix King has mistresses and concubines along with their Everqueen. High Elf society is basically built on these sort of intrigues, which is why their in-game special mechanic is Intrigue and in at least one edition of the game the leader of your army was chosen randomly by a dice roll to represent political maneuvering in a spectacularly hated rule called "Intrigue at Court". (It was hated because a random D6 roll could mean that your level 1 hero mage who you spent the bare minimum on could get the nod to be your general over your super tricked out elf prince on a star dragon.) Kanos fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 10:13
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yeah i think the requirement is a marriage of one year and having one kid who will be the next everqueen or something? but outside of that they can gently caress all they want and pursue other relationships
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Dec 3, 2018 13:11
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Should I do a Vortex campaign or the other one? And how do the different races play out?
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Dec 3, 2018 13:19
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I'm having a lot of fun with the vortex campaign, probably the best idea for late campaign challenge in any TW game. I haven't tried the ME one though.
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Dec 3, 2018 13:28
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Turtlicious posted:Should I do a Vortex campaign or the other one? And how do the different races play out? If you're playing one of the new factions I suggest picking up Vortex, as the map feels better designed to accomodate game 2's mechanics and has a pretty good variety of factions everywhere. The four release races (High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen and Skaven) are competing to do rituals, it will go from ~120 to 160 turns, depending on how quickly you go through yours. It has a good pacing and decent sense of escalation at the end. Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast can do things at their own pace and have a lot of flexibility on how they interact with the map, both get a bunch of unique things they get to do campaign-side.
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Dec 3, 2018 14:40
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Why is Obscide chasing my secondary beastmen army across all of Bretonnia. EDIT: Why are multiple full stacks from Clan Skryre chasing me across Bretonnia in the first few turns of this game. The Crotch fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 15:00
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Because there can be only one baddest chaos boy around..
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Dec 3, 2018 15:30
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beastmen are fuckijg cancer and must be vanquished
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Dec 3, 2018 16:39
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play the lizardmen and skaven first as they haven't received a big content patch and therefore won't have a roster that feels slim once you come to them from the chunkier, more fleshed out races.
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Dec 3, 2018 16:42
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Lizardmen and skaven will get their DLC after the next faction pack, undead dark and high elves. Actually, hey, wait: can there be non-human or animal undead? Everything in the game is based on a human, bat, canine, horse, crab, or dragon. Are there zombie elves? Skeleton dwarves? Vampire orcs?
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Dec 3, 2018 17:55
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The Crotch posted:Lizardmen and skaven will get their DLC after the next faction pack, undead dark and high elves. Yes.  This was a Dogs of War regiment called the Cursed Company of Richter Krueger
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Dec 3, 2018 18:07
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The Crotch posted:Actually, hey, wait: can there be non-human or animal undead? Everything in the game is based on a human, bat, canine, horse, crab, or dragon. Are there zombie elves? Skeleton dwarves? Vampire orcs? Edit:  I had to look up how you spelled Kreugar.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:11
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Undead dwarfs are weird because there's the Cursed Company and that one grudge about a necromancer putting on a lovely play with a dwarf corpse, but IIRC Dwarfs are innately resistant to magic, including necromancy and vampirism. Mannfred even says that there's a reason you don't see vampire or undead dwarfs when he's making peace (or signing a treaty) with you as a Dwarf faction.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:15
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The fluff for Age of Sigmar is garbage, but man do they have some pretty models.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:32
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Asuryan comes out as theworst of all the characters of the End Times because he spent basically all of recorded history screwing over his faithful children to give a billion chances to Malekith as he inflicted unimaginable pain and horror on countless millions, more so than probably every Everchosen combined, all In service of plan that involved actively sabotaging the defenses against the Chaos gods and puréeing the defenders of order and feeding them to two baby-eating murderrapists. In conclusion, Finubar's mistake wasn't cheating at the ritual or denying Malekith his birthright, it was getting mopey when he learned the truth instead of telling Asuryan to go. gently caress. Himself. No gods, no masters, be gay, do crimes. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 18:36
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Dr Christmas posted:Asuryan comes out as theworst of all the characters of the End Times because he spent basically all of recorded history screwing over his faithful children to give a billion chances to Malekith as he inflicted unimaginable pain and horror on countless millions, more so than probably every Everchosen combined, all Outside of maybe Vaul and occasionally Hoeth, the Elf Gods are pretty uniformly dickbags at all times.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:44
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The Crotch posted:Lizardmen and skaven will get their DLC after the next faction pack, undead dark and high elves. can't wait to field 19 warplock jezzails and 19 slingers (poison) with two grey seers
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Dec 3, 2018 18:58
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Night10194 posted:Outside of maybe Vaul and occasionally Hoeth, the Elf Gods are pretty uniformly dickbags at all times. Well, they are elven gods.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:14
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This only happened post pirates patch, why is she a monster now
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Dec 3, 2018 20:02
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Arialle just wants to go under the sea
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Dec 3, 2018 20:07
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shes loving had enough *clutches sword of khaine*
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Dec 3, 2018 20:09
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deathbagel posted:The fluff for Age of Sigmar is garbage, but man do they have some pretty models. They’re really hit or miss imo. Some are fantastic and some are total garbage with really basic design errors like having obvioualy mismatched movement lines. Like the Alarielle on giant beetle* model, Alarielle looks like she’s standing in a dramatic wind but the beetle’s loose dangly bits are all hanging limp. Otoh the new nurgle dudes, the fish aelfs, etc are great. The steampunk dwarfs and naked dwarfs have grown on me too. Sigmarines run the gamut from cool to shite. *a better designed beetle as a mount for her in tw would be cool tho. And tbh I’d love to see the AoS chaos stuff appear. Other than the lameo khorne bloodbloods they have a lot of cool designs beyond the current roster that’s 100% edgelord armour dudes. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 20:10
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The steampunk dwarfs and naked dwarfs have grown on me too. Fancy hats and dwarf homoeroticism are the only things I crave in this life.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:13
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One day they'll retcon the end times and just say the whole thing was a dream that nagash had or something.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:13
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I like all the Sigmarine models that aren't wearing helmets. It just hits that node of "super righteous fantasy paladin" when they have visible, distinct faces. Giving them generic identical bland face masks makes them look generic, identical, and bland to me  Edgar Allen Ho posted:And tbh I’d love to see the AoS chaos stuff appear. Other than the lameo khorne bloodbloods they have a lot of cool designs beyond the current roster that’s 100% edgelord armour dudes. Yeah the recent Tzeentch stuff looks really great, to the point I bought some. If they take some of the AoS designs to flesh out game 3's Chaos armies I'd be happy. Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 20:22
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AoS has a lot of great fluff now. They've really done a lot to flesh it out and the realms of magic structure offers far more possibilities than the Old World allowed. There's so much more scope for craziness there.
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