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Schwartzcough posted:As far as I know the Suikoden games were about wars rather than any global annihilation. 3 was about both. (Maybe not quite global, but at least a good chunk of the world was going to be magic nuked as collateral damage to the antagonist's plot).
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Dec 2, 2018 07:29
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ultrafilter posted:How many games don't have that? I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. A Couple of the Tales games I think. At the Very Least Phantasia. Dhaos just wanted to stop the advent of Magi Technology to save the World Tree in order to save is own world.
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Dec 2, 2018 17:25
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The villain of Tales of Symphonia has already technically won and split the world into two unbalanced halves ages ago, which he keeps around because it keeps his comatose sister in suspended animation, or something like that. He explicitly doesn't want to wipe anyone out, either.
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Dec 2, 2018 17:46
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The villain in the first Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't a nihilist, right? Omnicidal, but not a nihilist.
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Dec 2, 2018 18:00
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Omobono posted:The villain in the first Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't a nihilist, right? Omnicidal, but not a nihilist. He was close - at least if we're talking about the actual main villain. He was the kind of guy who literally saw no value in any life other than himself.
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Dec 2, 2018 18:33
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Isn't that simply Trump-tier narcissism though? It's different from nihilism.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:39
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None of this is actually nihilism in the proper sense of the word, so does that kind of hair-splitting really matter?
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Dec 2, 2018 19:42
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Dr. Snark posted:He was close - at least if we're talking about the actual main villain. He was the kind of guy who literally saw no value in any life other than himself. His whole gimmick was that he wasn't being worshipped as a god anymore, so he was gonna wipe the slate and start over so the new life forms would worship him again.
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Dec 2, 2018 21:39
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Shiki Dan posted:3 was about both. I was always under the impression that the scale of destruction in 3 was actually relatively small Just the literal area of the world the game was set in, which was relatively small
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Dec 3, 2018 05:05
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Arkanumzilong posted:I was always under the impression that the scale of destruction in 3 was actually relatively small It would have completely annihilated the Grasslands at minimum. The Grasslands is absolutely huge area that supposedly is even bigger than the entire areas in the first two Suikodens combined. Even the villain explicitly said he didn't know exactly how much would be destroyed, however.
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Dec 3, 2018 06:02
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I think I've misremembered Albert Simon; I remember him being much more formally nihilistic--in the sense that he wasn't trying to achieve any moral good, spare pain, or anything, but that he saw mankind's self-destruction as inevitable, so there wasn't any real difference between him destroying the world and him not destroying the world. A "We're all doomed to die anyways, might as well see if I can summon god" motive. Which is disappointing, but I also kind of remember that Simon's best moments are still to come? Even as a less unique villain, I still really appreciate his commitment to the top hat and vest look.Nissin Cup Nudist posted:What did Simon get out of helping Dehuai with his schemes? Simon was expecting Dehui to fail do did he need Dehuai to summon his god so Simon could summon the float thing? I really think he was mostly loving with Dehuai, since they're both villainous warlocks who run in the same circles and they're both dicks. He might have also been seeing his methods as a bit of a test case, since Dehuai's plan was to blast Japan off the Earth via "Summon Big Monster To Hit Thing," which Simon is also using on a much grander scale. See what works, what didn't, then amp it up through the Neameeto method. I think he always knew he could use Koudelka if Dehuai used up Alice, so it's not like he absolutely needed her for his plans, so I'm pretty sure he was turning towards Plan B while also sticking around to mess with Dehuai/Yuri. In terms of misremembering, I kind of wish Dehuai was less of an open failure, because, in my memory, he felt like a good opposition to Simon? He's trying to make use of Forbidden Magic to repulse colonizers, and there's a really interesting political crisis where he's an extremely corrupt and vile man, but he's also the only way Shanghai can keep the Japanese at bay. He's Zhuzhen's nemesis, and yet, Zhuzhen acknowledges that even he's not inclined to help the occupying Japanese Army against him. Colonial aggression's driven China against a wall, and they can't win without extraordinary, extremely dangerous efforts, like Dehuai. If I were rewriting the game, Simon's nihilism would be an outgrowth of Dehuai's realpolitik--the only methods left to fight imperial conquest are monstrous, and when they fail, there's just no hope (barring, of course, a multinational team of remarkable individuals who form a family of misfits). Precambrian fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 06:08
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Precambrian posted:In terms of misremembering, I kind of wish Dehuai was less of an open failure, because, in my memory, he felt like a good opposition to Simon? In terms of the presentation of the game itself, what you're taking from it seems really more or less what was intended.
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Dec 3, 2018 12:56
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Episode LXIII: We'll Use Science!.jpg) It seems like learning Albert Simon's true name was the only thing holding him back from reverting to a cackling dingus bent on the destruction of the world for vague nihilistic reasons. Oh well. Not much we can do about that now that he's chilling out in a flying castle that's hanging out in the stratosphere. We automatically retreat to Roger Bacon's abode to see if he has any ideas about what to do next.  Music: Callback from Jesus .jpg)  She’s resting at the London Rats hideout. She’s in better shape than I thought. <nods> I’m glad to hear that, but… Well… Our trouble is just starting, I’m afraid. You don't say!? Hey Rog! What is that big, castle-lookin’ thing anyway? It’s one of the legacies left behind by beings who visited this planet long ago. It’s Neam. ... That doesn't explain anything. It's a great big flying castle in the sky. What more do you want out of me? When you say “one of the legacies”, do you mean there’s still some others out there? <nods> Oh, definitely. About a hundred of them, I’d guess. That many?! I am probably lowballing it, if we're being honest..jpg) It’s just like the renowned Tower of Babel. It’s not something that can be easily controlled by humans. That Albert guy, he said the gods would fly from the depths of the sky, but what is that Neam machine? The mean Neam machine... <nods> It was he who said that Neam means “float” in the ancient tongue of Ebi. Do you know what a float is? Like when you drift off the ground? No, not that one. The big gaudy thing in parades? Not that one either. A government grant of a fixed amount of land not yet located by survey out of a larger specific tract? CERTAINLY not that one! A soft drink with ice cream in it? That doesn't sound bad... The hell is a "soft" drink?! Mmm... I could go for one of those. But no! It’s the thing that bobs when a fish bites while you are fishing. Once the float goes up, God will home in on it from the M72 nebula, some 4,800,000 light-years away. You mean God lives that far away? That doesn’t sound right somehow. Calling it God is something humans dreamed up themselves. More precisely, it’s an “alien organism”. So God is an alien, eh. I always thought he sits on this leaf, with his hands like this… That’s Buddha! Listen… if you saw a human with the eyes of an ant, they would seem overwhelmingly huge, right? You wouldn’t want to fight them, would you? <cracks knuckles> I'd give it a go! Not the brightest bulb, are you?  Ants may not understand it, but humans could almost be their god figure for them. So are you saying that to this organism from space, we’re the same… just like ants? <nods> That’s correct..jpg) <looks at Yuri> Why does that hurt you so? <steps forward> Something too overwhelmingly powerful for humans to deal with is coming to this planet. I suppose if that happens, Earth, and everything on it, will be wiped out. Assuming its intent is hostile destruction immediately. For all we know, it could arrive only to decide to take a nap on Australia. Or blow up the moon? I... suppose that too is a possibility. There's no way to know the intentions of such a powerful being. Albert is really winging this plan. He hasn't changed since his days as a student...  What’s wrong? <turns to Alice> Well, that’s what we gotta fight, right? What!? You actually intend to fight!! Isn’t there any way to stop it!? Is Albert really going to bring about the destruction of the world!? There is a way!  We’ve got to destroy the float inside Neam before the God homes in on it! <shakes head> Can it really be done?! But it’s floating in space!! How are we gonna get up there? Get shot out of a cannon? A trebuchet? I don't think that's gonna work. Hee hee hee! And that’s where the Instantaneous Matter Transporter will come into play!  Roger walks onto the central platform. .jpg) Everyone knows the only thing that can match an aliens' tech and a dark god from the cosmos is cutting edge SCIENCE! .jpg) Get on top of it and run!  Get on top of what? The wheels? Why are they covered in SPIKES!? No, the platform there, you fool. It'll move when you run on it. If you say so... What's with the creepy statue on the end? It's not creepy! It's a relic recovered from the ruins of the monastery. The haunted evil rear end monastery? That's the one. ...Yuri steps on the treadmill and starts walking cautiously. Music: Bacon's Juice .jpg) Yuri starts running. The Sacnoth statue at the head of the treadmill starts spinning. .jpg) Huff! Huff! Maybe... I should... rethink... wearing this... coat... Huff, huff... Whooaa!!.jpg) .jpg) Man, it'd be the worst to be doing exercise and suddenly get hit with a Judgment Wheel or a QTE mid-session. I'd never go back to the gym. .jpg) All right! Here we go!.jpg) .jpg) Huh, he’s gone…?! ... I... uhh... we didn't accidentally like... vaporize the old geezer, did we...? I DON'T KNOW!...Maybe. Aww, geez....jpg) The sound of some falling from a great height and thudding on the ground is heard. .jpg) Good news, everyone! It was a success! Thank goodness. Why are you smoking? Science! Did you see that? You saw what my teleporter is capable of, right? You can go anywhere using my teleporter. Yeah, it’s pretty amazin’, but didn’t you almost get killed there? We were a little worried you got... vaporized...Roger Bacon dashes surprisingly swiftly down to the lower level. .jpg) Pretty great, huh? If you set the target to Neam’s specific coordinates, it flies right it! How do you know Neam's coordinates? ... ...... Let me worry about that! No offense, but you smell like burnt toast and are still smoking a little bit. There must be another way. There is none!! <nods> Well, okay then. Man, you're easy to convince when it's anybody but me... <laughs> Hee hee... Come on! It doesn't matter if we go up in this machine or if god comes to end the world! So why don't we just let fate decide!? You really don’t trust me, huh? I can’t believe it! You speak that way about my greatest invention… <shakes head> No, I didn’t mean anything! Yeah, that’s right, Rog! We love your machine, so take us to the stars!! NEAM!! Here we come!! Use your beam to get us to the Mean Neam Machine. It's not a beam! It's an Instantaneous Matter Transporter! Gonna be real, Rog. I ain't gonna remember that. <nods> Trust me! I’ll make sure to get you there safely! I promise, promise, PROMISE! Since we’ve made our decision, I’ll get ready. Please get ready for departure too, everyone! Should we go back to the hideout, too?Music: Callback from Jesus .jpg) Man, I'd be down as poo poo with a device that could just teleport pizza into my hand. Unfortunately, it's going to take a while for Roger Bacon to work out the kinks of his teleporter. b.jpg) Well, not really. But we do need to go attend to some other business first. So let's depart from Nemeton Monastery for now. Music: Atmosphere - Blow Up .jpg) We're technically at the end of this chapter right here. But... we're also not allowed to go embark on Seven Days of Sidequests before the end of the world until we return to London for a scene. So let's get that out of the way right now. .jpg) .jpg) Specifically, we need to return to the London Rats' Hideout and go to the top floor where we met Halley for the first time. Music: Don't Cry My Vampire .jpg) Regardless of our party composition, Halley is up here now with his mother. Turns out Koudelka came up with that stupid saying, I guess. Where she picked it up in the last fifteen years is anyone's guess. Halley rushes up to his mom. .jpg)  <nods> I know, but I’m okay. After three years, we’re finally together. <shakes head> I’m so sorry, Mom. I wanted to go see you sooner. <shakes head> It’s okay, Halley. It must have been very difficult for you. You’ve done a great thing here. Heh heh… It’s all thanks to the little ones. I’ve gotta protect them! Yeah... we need to have a discussion about the collection of powerful mage orphans you've collected here. What are you talking about? The little girl with the pigtails and her demon summoning. Or the boy with the running nose who seems to be binding souls to random objects... Mom, you sure you don't still need some rest? …... How you’ve grown, Halley…Halley turns away from Koudelka. .jpg) <nods> What is it? I’m going to fight until the end with Yuri. Will you be okay with that? Well, I suppose it is the end of all life on the planet if they don't stop Albert Simon, so... As long as you promise to come back to me. Like your father did… Oh, I misspoke. I meant don't be like how deadbeat father just took my horse, rode off into the morning mists and never came back. You’re beginning to look a lot like him. Don't start wearing a backpack. You'll look like a drat fool....jpg) Yes. Your father always kept his promises. ...Would be a lie. So don't be like that, sweetheart. Thanks to your father, I’m here with you now. ... ...... Is Yuri my dad? WHAT?! NO! Oh sweetie, no! Of course not! He's in his mid-20s. Think about that for a moment... No, your father is an idiot who went to America to "make a name for himself" and... that's the last I heard about him in ten years ago... I promise, I’ll be back! Let’s go to America together! We’ll take a boat with Chris, Sharon and Joshua and meet Dad! Halley… Talking to your father again in the first place is a big ask. Taking all of your little friends along too, well... That’s what we’ll do. Right, Mom? <nods> Ok. All right. I promise. (We're all going to die in a week anyway.)Music: ENDS. Alice and Yuri wander onto the scene. .jpg) Sorry about that. Is it a bad time? No, it’s okay. Great timing, in fact. I needed the subject changed immediately. Music: ICARO - Beated Version .jpg) Yuri, I don’t know how to thank you. Thank you so much for coming to see me. <laughs> C-c’mon. Yer embarrassin’ me. As for me, I can’t believe that drat voice, er, I mean that “mysterious voice” was an actually a beauty like you. Yuri, please stop hitting on my mom. After we beat Simon she's going back to America with me to see Dad. ...That right? He's getting ahead of himself. Also, I wanna thank you for savin’ Alice at Kuihai Tower. Yes, thank you. A week of torture was rough... I don't know if I could have held out without your help. It was no problem. Though Yuri, I'm still a little confused why you and the others saw it fit to go to Hong Kong instead of going straight to Kuihai Tower. ...You all did WHAT!? Hehehe... Yeah, umm... Hey, Koudelka! Question! But how come it was only me who’s head hurt when they heard your voice? Was I being punished? That’s because all the monsters fused inside you became terrified. Like bats fear the sunlight….jpg) I hope it wasn't too unpleasant. Ehh... ya know, at worst I was only a LITTLE worried my head would pop like a melon. No big deal... Oh... s-sorry... Water under the bridge. But... if you could, like, never do that again unless 100% absolutely necessary... that'd be super great! There’s nothing to worry about. You’re protected by a greater spirit. A spirit so strong that even Albert fears… Look deep inside yourself. You’ll know who that soul belongs to. <nods> I know, Koudelka. I mean, not really... That's super vague. But, I'll take it under advisement. <turns to Alice> Alice… .jpg) <shakes head> No… it’s just because of all the help I got from everyone. I can see the burden you carry for the sake of your loved one. You’re scared, right? Just don’t ever give up hope. You have Yuri now. The curse may be strong, but he will protect you. All right? <nods> Yes, that’s right. (Oh CRUD! Right... I TOTALLY blanked on that curse thing with everything that has been going on. Should probably look into lifting that...) I can’t do anything anymore, but I’ll wait here for your safe return. You sure? You still seem pretty strong. I'm in my mid-30s. That's one foot in the grave in female protagonist years. I'm afraid you're on your own, kids... Roger will help you with the rest. Now, go…Music: Babysitter is Old Nurse .jpg) And that's the end of Koudelka's role in this game's plot. Which is not to say that's the last we'll interact with her going forward. She may be involved in a side quest we'll be seeing in the near future. Even though it seems like Roger Bacon's house would make more sense, the party has seen it fit to spend the end game hanging out in the London Rat's squatting digs for the duration of the endgame if they're not in the active party. With that in mind, we can go talk to everyone who is not currently active. They're all chilling out at varying parts of the building. .jpg) Good news, Zhuzhen! You actually are going to be coming out of retirement, however briefly. We'll need you to trigger a couple of quests along the road. .jpg) Just gonna get sloshed for this whole thing, huh? I can respect that. Cheers..jpg) I'm pretty sure that little pipsqueak is eyeing my wallet again and I cannot be held responsible for where bullets might be discharged if he makes a move. Please don't shoot a buncha orphans. I make zero promises....jpg) How far a walk is that?...A walk? To America. Everything is so drat spaced out 'round here. It's across the ocean. Like so you'd have to take a boat? Most likely. No thanks! Count me out! You weren't invited....jpg) Yo. ... Something up? Oh, uh... nothing... Just, you know... Still a little cursed. I know we've got a lot on our plate, but... <rubs neck> Yeah... we should probably sort that out... Y-yeah... That'd be... nice....jpg) .jpg) While Sharon and Joshua get nifty occult powers, Chris just gets... the ability to switch party members. Kind of the short end of the ability stick, huh? We'll be shuffling our party far more often than we had been for most of Europe in coming updates. Music: Atmosphere - Blow Up .jpg) But for now, thus concludes Chapter 20: Nemeton Monastery. A world state change has occurred now that the Neameto Float has arisen and almost every single location in Europe now has new content in the form of a ton of sidequests such as:
  Well that was certainly a full chapter and we've got a nice helping of new entries in the Library. MONSTER: .jpg) Look, bird and man I could be OK with but plant added in too just makes it weird. .jpg) Welsh does indeed qualify as a strange language, so that checks out. .jpg) So does it have intelligence or act purely on instinct? You're giving me mixed signals in this thing that has a gaping maw where its head should be. .jpg) It can and WILL shoot a Level 1 adventurer in the face with no hesitation. It's here to commit murder rear end murder! .jpg) Weakness: Pans dropped on its head. NPC:  Koudelka's entry updated to a more dignified version of her model now that she's free from Albert Simon's bullshit. .jpg) He has not been seen except by that tailor who clearly fitted his suit.   Koudelka Iasant Portrait - Age really gave Koudelka a strong jawline... The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2018 19:41
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At least this god is as considerate of sidequest time as the meteor from FFVII. They might as well be the same.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:08
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The Dark Id posted:
I totally read this line as “what if you saw a human who had ant eyes” and yeah, Yuri would totally fight someone like that, it’d be a pretty normal enemy for this game.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:14
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Ghosts, wizards, demons, ancient aliens, and not Lovecraftian abominations from beyond the stars. We're hitting all the horror highlights here. I have to admit that having his entire plan spelled out really makes Albert's villain cred take a hit. Sure, it's impressively scaled and all, but does come off as more like a cosmic temper tantrum than anything. Also, Koudela really seems to have hyped Edward up to Halley. I guess "your father is ghost punching dumbass that I had a one night stand with after some very traumatic events" isn't that appropriate for a child, but it is a lot for a man she didn't even know for a full day. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 21:16
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I found this one day months ago, and I can't not think of it when talking about the jRPG gods. This one far more than most.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:29
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quote:What is it with this LP and making me want pizza?
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Dec 3, 2018 21:51
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It's kinda sad that Koudelka doesn't really retain a lot of her personality from the first game. Yeah, certainly age and kid would have mellowed her, but you'd think she'd still be a bit acerbic.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:26
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I was just about to say that motherhood seems to agree with her and that I like how much less of a jerk Koudelka is these days. Funny how that goes.  She has had like 20 lines spread out over all of the game so far, though, so it's really hard to infer anything into that.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:32
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Sidequest time! Woot!
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Dec 4, 2018 01:10
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so did anyone ever figure out what the heck is up with 'thou has not won even once'?
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Dec 4, 2018 01:28
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:so did anyone ever figure out what the heck is up with 'thou has not won even once'? Kind of a letdown, that. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 01:36
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Koudelka exposed Simon for who he was and in their last scene together, completely wiped the smirk off his face and would have flattened him if he didn't have his Amon cheat code. It wasn't some thing like with Yuri at the beginning where he managed to heal a flesh wound that would be a big deal for most people like it was no problem, there was definitely a clear difference in their power. As off the cuff and cool as our new protag is, I think that's enough to redeem her getting kidnapped and being a minor character for most of the game.
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Dec 4, 2018 01:55
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Shitenshi posted:Koudelka exposed Simon for who he was and in their last scene together, completely wiped the smirk off his face and would have flattened him if he didn't have his Amon cheat code. It wasn't some thing like with Yuri at the beginning where he managed to heal a flesh wound that would be a big deal for most people like it was no problem, there was definitely a clear difference in their power. As off the cuff and cool as our new protag is, I think that's enough to redeem her getting kidnapped and being a minor character for most of the game. Did they ever explain why she got so much more powerful over the years when she wasn’t exactly in action for the period? Or why she won’t help finish the job now?
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Dec 4, 2018 02:20
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Geostomp posted:Did they ever explain why she got so much more powerful over the years when she wasn’t exactly in action for the period? Or why she won’t help finish the job now? And yeah, it does kind of suck that they pretty much removed her caustic streak entirely because she and Yuri could have really bounced off of each other well as two people that just laugh in the face of cosmic horrors.
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Dec 4, 2018 02:30
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:so did anyone ever figure out what the heck is up with 'thou has not won even once'? Here lies Halley he has not won even once.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:30
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I'd like to think Koudelka tracked Edward down the moment she realized she was pregnant and had Words (and possible threat of psychic castration) but yeah, the dialogue seem to infer that the two had some kind of relationship after their one night stand.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:31
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Oh cool, a JRPG where the endgame involves going up against God. What a novel concept.
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Dec 4, 2018 05:01
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I feel like slamming Shadow Hearts for its cliched plot doesn't work as well when the game was released in 2001 and was part of the trend that created the cliche in the first place. The game is nearly old enough to vote. It's probably got at least its drivers license!
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Dec 4, 2018 05:15
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kw0134 posted:I feel like slamming Shadow Hearts for its cliched plot doesn't work as well when the game was released in 2001 and was part of the trend that created the cliche in the first place. The game is nearly old enough to vote. It's probably got at least its drivers license! also we're technically going to kill a SPACE-god. Totally different when it's going all Lovecraft.
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Dec 4, 2018 05:44
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Koudelka just got out of medieval torture prison and has had a really rough few months in general, cut her some slack.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:38
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I caught up with the lp, hell yeah. felt good to see old nemeton monestary again, I like the idea that God is a huge space fish
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Dec 4, 2018 13:04
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Sterski posted:Oh cool, a JRPG where the endgame involves going up against God. Technically not god, but rather an alien that may as well be for all that it matters. Kinda one of those "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" deals, but in a religious context instead. And for all the flak it gets as an idea, I feel like a JRPG that ens with a fight against something more mundane would feel like an anticlimax. Even most Western RPGs pit you against something at least demi-god level by the end. (Unless they forgo boss fights more or less entirely)
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Dec 4, 2018 19:45
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while it will obviously end in fighting god, the current plan is to do everything they can to keep god from showing up at all.
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Dec 4, 2018 19:52
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:while it will obviously end in fighting god, the current plan is to do everything they can to keep god from showing up at all. Yeah, we all know how that always turns out.
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Dec 4, 2018 20:38
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, we all know how that always turns out. Well, the crew did stop Dehaui from summoning Seraphic Radiance and prevented Kouldelka from being sacrificed. It's just that in both cases, Albert finished the job in a different way, making their efforts meaningless.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:03
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CmdrKing posted:I found this one day months ago, and I can't not think of it when talking about the jRPG gods. This one far more than most. This hasn't gotten nearly the love it deserves.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:05
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Geostomp posted:Well, the crew did stop Dehaui from summoning Seraphic Radiance They didn't.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:17
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:They didn't. They did, Albert just punted his corpse across the finish line.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:39
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