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And even if you follow the main quest there are breaks where he says its going to take a while before the next step is possible so go do something else for a while. It gives you a lot of chances to go loot and murder the countryside.
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Dec 4, 2018 10:21
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It's sort of fascinating how you see those breaks in the awareness of Bethesda's main story get more frequent and worse over nearly every release. That awareness of the fact that the stories work better without a pre-defined protagonist role (that is, the closer your character is to a totally random rear end in a top hat the better), and with plenty of space to just say 'gently caress it' to ongoing storylines. Morrowind knows that it's better to give you a character of no clear importance, a story with no urgency and something with plenty of in-built break points to go off and do your own poo poo without that feeling weird. Oblivion still has a protagonist with no clear importance, but does it largely through surrounding you with other people with clear importance. Still, while the story occasionally has points of urgency, the main story is fairly segmented and patient, has several points where they essentially let you off the leash completely, and has a major ongoing crisis that still doesn't really drag attention away from you doing other stuff. Fallout 3 gives your character some very specific and personal links to the story around them, but not in a way that precludes any way someone might play the game. There's sort of an implicit urgency to the whole story, but very rarely is it giving you things that feel like you have to do right now. Skyrim doesn't have a pre-defined character backstory, but the whole game's story just reads weirdly with certain playstyles. The central crisis of the main story does bust into you doing other things quite frequently, making putting that off feel a bit wrong, and there aren't many times in the main story where it feels like the urgency of the situation gets below a low boiling point, meaning that going off and doing something else never feels explicitly wrong but almost always feels disingenuous. And Fallout 4 gives you a VERY pre-defined character that logically calls for a very specific skillset, and if you take the main story at its face value, a sense of urgency that never really lets up until you actually finish the main quest. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 11:14 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 11:10
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Hey, that's a good write-up.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:13
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I guess my enjoyment of Fallout 4 was based on the fact that I accepted the story the game was trying to tell and didn't try to ignore it. I can see how it would be frustrating if you went into it expecting an open world game where you decide your characters' backstory, but Fallout 4 explicitly isn't that, so I thought I might as well engage with it on its level and care about that drat kid.
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Dec 4, 2018 12:34
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Agent355 posted:No the game is poo poo. Oh what's this? An aircraft carrier (or ship, I barely remember). Walk up to the first NPC and what's in the dialogue choices?  : I believe my father is insideWhat?? Why would my character know that? I can't believe they didn't even take into account that you wandered there early and at least have another way instead of skipping a bunch of story. I didn't even know you could meet Three Dog in game until I read online later, after beating it (sorry, I mean dying in the But Thou Must death chamber) thanks to
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Dec 4, 2018 12:45
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Cleretic posted:It's sort of fascinating how you see those breaks in the awareness of Bethesda's main story get more frequent and worse over nearly every release. The history of Bethesda is basically a downwards slope where the quality of writing keeps getting worse, while the complexity of the gameplay gets simpler. They probably hit the sweet spot for mass market appeal with Skyrim, but then though if they could still go a bit further, giving us FO4 and 76.
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Dec 4, 2018 12:52
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marshmallow creep posted:Nah Nick is based on a guy who was trying to take down a criminal mastermind who killed Nick's girl and then walked because he cut a deal. You can help him find the guy, who conveniently turned himself into a ghoul before the bombs dropped and locked himself in a secret room no one could get into and stayed there for 220 years so Nick would have the chance to track him down and kill him at long last. 220 years in the equivalent of a one room apartment. Well that's lame! I doesn't even make much sense.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:00
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When people say Fallout they really mean bethesda RPG. Find the baby or not, you're pissed off because you're playing a bethesda RPG and you duped yourself into thinking you're playing a Fallout game. And turns out all bethesda rpgs are kinda bad but big, and the only time you've had actually fun was when you roleplayed another game in your head.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:05
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Vic posted:When people say Fallout they really mean bethesda RPG. Find the baby or not, you're pissed off because you're playing a bethesda RPG and you duped yourself into thinking you're playing a Fallout game. This is true to a degree, I think; essentially, as I described above, Bethesda RPGs are at their best when they give you ample opportunity to jump free of what they planned out. And it's also not necessarily a bad thing on Bethesda's part, because they are (perhaps unintentionally) very good at designing sandbox mechanics that can be very fun to dig into and make your own fun out of. Rockstar is often similar: very good at creating fun interlocking tools and world elements, not so good at making a singular narrative experience inside it. And it's an actual skill, too, not everyone can make a bunch of fun pieces that work if you just throw them all in the same pot.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:21
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You mean to tell me when my horse gets killed it dies for good? Rip Deez Nuts too good for Hyrule
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Dec 4, 2018 13:28
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Well that's lame! Also, the passcode to this secret studio apartment is hidden in holotape interviews he gave before the bombs dropped. Which you need to collect from all around the map.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:30
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Post poste posted:Also, the passcode to this secret studio apartment is hidden in holotape interviews he gave before the bombs dropped. Which you need to collect from all around the map. He must've hired Umbrella Inc. as a contractor.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:33
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Len posted:You mean to tell me when my horse gets killed it dies for good? Rip Deez Nuts too good for Hyrule Check in Southern Hyrule. Look for Horse God Bridge...
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Dec 4, 2018 14:12
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marshmallow creep posted:Nah Nick is based on a guy who was trying to take down a criminal mastermind who killed Nick's girl and then walked because he cut a deal. You can help him find the guy, who conveniently turned himself into a ghoul before the bombs dropped and locked himself in a secret room no one could get into and stayed there for 220 years so Nick would have the chance to track him down and kill him at long last. 220 years in the equivalent of a one room apartment. FO4 also gave us Billy the ghoul, a child who was trapped in a loving refrigerator for 220 years.
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Dec 4, 2018 15:28
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Like I get ghouls aren't really human anymore, but I think 220 years of solitude would destroy someone's mental state.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:12
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Dienes posted:FO4 also gave us Billy the ghoul, a child who was trapped in a loving refrigerator for 220 years. ilmucche posted:Like I get ghouls aren't really human anymore, but I think 220 years of solitude would destroy someone's mental state. In Billy's case, his parents also survived the blast as ghouls and still stay in the same blasted (literally) house mere blocks from where he could be heard calling for help from his fridge. When they meet up, the reunion is like if a kid had been missing for a day or two, not two and a quarter centuries. Did they literally never walk out of their house and explore? Or did they mean to leave him in there and put on an act for when you let him out?
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Dec 4, 2018 16:18
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ilmucche posted:Like I get ghouls aren't really human anymore, but I think 220 years of solitude would destroy someone's mental state. I dunno, it's only 2,2 Marquez, it's not that much.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:19
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Bethesda Fallout games really only work if you assume everyone is lying about "200 years after the bombs fell" and it was in fact just a few days to a few months ago.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:34
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orcane posted:Bethesda Fallout games really only work if you assume everyone is lying about "200 years after the bombs fell" and it was in fact just a few days to a few months ago. You figure after two hundreds years they would've rolled all the tires and picked up all the piles of trash in diamond city
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Dec 4, 2018 17:11
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Mikl posted:I dunno, it's only 2,2 Marquez, it's not that much. Many years later, as he faced the Raiders, Billy The Ghoul was to remember that distant afternoon when his parents forgot him on the refrigerator.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:12
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Mokinokaro posted:Check in Southern Hyrule. Look for Horse God Bridge... Gah I remember accidentally finding that whole thing while going for a wander in that game. You turn a corner, explore down a valley, and meet a hidden optional demigod ally.
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Dec 4, 2018 20:08
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Ugh, I'm playing Darksider 3, since I remember liking 2 a bit way back when that came out. Giant loving pet peeve: I do not like Dark Souls. The game adopts a semi-dark souls system where some enemy drops can be crushed for Souls/XPMoney, sure alright. The game also adopts dropping all your souls on death, and needing to pick them up. And checkpoints you get thrown back to. The game also has wonky platforming where it's incredibly easy to just drop off platforms, or get pushed off platforms. Every time you do so you seem to lose like 20-25% of your hp. Many platforming sections are so poorly set up too. There are some times where you have to swing from swing-point to swing point. Except you use the same button to swing, as to attack. Meaning that there's a chance you might just start attacking in midair instead of swinging, and have a huge chance of falling down. So peeve: lovely gameplay decisions, coupled with poor design and polish adding a lovely mechanic that in practice forces you to go through areas multiple times in case you die. And a single platforming error will wipe out a small health item worth of healing. The first impression the game is giving me is...  .
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Dec 4, 2018 21:44
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Didn't the studio that made darksiders 2 run out of money, deliver a partly finished game, then close down? Sounds like darksiders 3 is just an ill conceived cash grab.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:22
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Necrothatcher posted:For 10bux it's a fine game and definitely worth playing. People here moan too much - which is understandable given that this is the moan about games thread. Thanks. I figure any 4 star rated game is worth a 10 spot and I enjoy the atmosphere and graphics of Bethesda games. I'll probably do what I did with FO3, Oblivion and Skyrim and get bored, overwhelmed, hopelessly sidetracked or distracted after 30 or 40 hours but that's fine. I get tired of getting over-encumbered, fast traveling to a shop and unloading my poo poo over and over again or crafting a cool new weapon only to find a way better one 30 minutes later. Same thing dragged down The Witcher 3 for me as well where I felt like half of what I did was inventory management, sub menus and staring at the mini map but getting that much play out of a game is pretty good value for me. Most complaints about these games seem to come from people that spend 100+ hours with them and discover all the ways they're broken and unsatisfying.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:45
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SubNat posted:Ugh, I'm playing Darksider 3, since I remember liking 2 a bit way back when that came out. Square being attack and chain swing is really irritating too. I can’t count the number of times I’ve meant to transfer to another swing point and instead gone into an attack combo and fell to my death. My biggest gripe is the lock on target button being a shoulder button. I hate that so so much. And dodges being a right shoulder button. I hate that too. I’m sure some people like it that way and that’s fine, but I cannot believe we still don’t have button remapping in all games. I think I’ve complained in this thread about that before, but it just drives me nuts. If I want the god drat touch pad to be my main attack I should be able to set it to that even if it’s a stupid idea.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:49
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Agent355 posted:Didn't the studio that made darksiders 2 run out of money, deliver a partly finished game, then close down? Sounds like darksiders 3 is just an ill conceived cash grab. No, that's just a usual Darksiders. They were always this kind of B-game, just 2 that was terribly padded because the studio was closing down but the quality was never that good. It fills a niche, but that's it.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:57
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HairyManling posted:My biggest gripe is the lock on target button being a shoulder button. I hate that so so much. And dodges being a right shoulder button. I hate that too. I’m sure some people like it that way and that’s fine, but I cannot believe we still don’t have button remapping in all games. I think I’ve complained in this thread about that before, but it just drives me nuts. If I want the god drat touch pad to be my main attack I should be able to set it to that even if it’s a stupid idea. Also actually locking on is really slow and sluggish. I'm not sure what it is, but it feels like I have to stop what I'm doing, and then hold it down for a bit to get it to actually trigger. Which doesn't help when there are often and usually enemies off screen. (Especially since you often seem to meet groups of enemies.) And it's even worse with the optional boss I encountered, where the lock on is useless, because it moves underground and breaks lock every couple of seconds. It's kind of 50:50 like dislike right now, it got a lot better when I stopped trying to headbutt an optional boss, but it isn't exactly a particularly good game so far. Also it crashed. How the hell do you get an unreal game to crash, it's a pretty stable engine.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:09
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In Dark Souls 2 one of the earliest bosses you can fight is named " The Last Giant", but later in the game you can find 2 more giants. The bosses name should be patched to " One Of the Last Giants".
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Dec 4, 2018 23:14
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Your Gay Uncle posted:In Dark Souls 2 one of the earliest bosses you can fight is named " The Last Giant", but later in the game you can find 2 more giants. The bosses name should be patched to " One Of the Last Giants". Well the other ones were hiding deep underground where presumably nobody had seen them in a long time. So really that first one should've been called "The Last Giant We Know About". But that's awfully leading.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:22
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GIRL BRAINS posted:You figure after two hundreds years they would've rolled all the tires and picked up all the piles of trash in diamond city That's the thing that bothers me most about the Bethesda fallout games. Two centuries and apparently nobody figured out how to push a broom or build a mud hut again. There are mr handy robots just loving everywhere but nobody could even be assed to tell them to dust and move the garbage away.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:34
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Your Gay Uncle posted:In Dark Souls 2 one of the earliest bosses you can fight is named " The Last Giant", but later in the game you can find 2 more giants. The bosses name should be patched to " One Of the Last Giants". The game should refer to them all as "The Last Giant."
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Dec 4, 2018 23:35
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The Last Giant is so pissed at you when you fight him because you've already defeated him before in the past through time-travel. So how is it that he drops a soul each time you beat him?
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Dec 4, 2018 23:45
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I mean people gain and lose souls all the time in the game. You took his soul before and then he has spent years collecting this new one that isn't nearly as good as his old one and he knows it, which is why he is pissed.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:48
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's the thing that bothers me most about the Bethesda fallout games. Two centuries and apparently nobody figured out how to push a broom or build a mud hut again. There are mr handy robots just loving everywhere but nobody could even be assed to tell them to dust and move the garbage away. Btw how are those robots still functional after all that time? What powers them?
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Dec 4, 2018 23:49
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's the thing that bothers me most about the Bethesda fallout games. Two centuries and apparently nobody figured out how to push a broom or build a mud hut again. There are mr handy robots just loving everywhere but nobody could even be assed to tell them to dust and move the garbage away. Something something constant struggle they simply don't have the time to clean because every minute is fighting bandits or mutants. So claim fans.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:57
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Sininu posted:Btw how are those robots still functional after all that time? What powers them? Atomic power. The Black Isle games had plenty of robots in them too.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:21
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Carcer posted:And even if you follow the main quest there are breaks where he says its going to take a while before the next step is possible so go do something else for a while. It gives you a lot of chances to go loot and murder the countryside. Wasn’t there some absolute “reputation” score that you got for clearing certain significant quests in every guild/house line as well as the main quest? I think progress through the main quest was (nominally) gated around that. Which made a lot of sense, given that part of the quest is being politically recognized as the Nerevarine, rather than just being inherently awesome like the Dragonborn.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's the thing that bothers me most about the Bethesda fallout games. Two centuries and apparently nobody figured out how to push a broom or build a mud hut again. There are mr handy robots just loving everywhere but nobody could even be assed to tell them to dust and move the garbage away. It's doubly funny/annoying because in Fallout 1 the very first place you go to is a village entirely composed of adobe houses. But you know, gotta have trash everywhere because how else will people get that it's a post-apocalyptic setting?!
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Dec 5, 2018 00:36
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Here's a Fallout 4 quest that doesn't rely on combat: You pick up a case at Nick's Detective Agency. You learn some guy called Earl in Diamond City has gone missing. You poke around Earl's house and find a receipt for a facial-reconstruction in the nearby clinic. You get permission from Dr Sun who mans the clinic counter to enter the basement, where a Dr Crocker is supposed to be. You enter the basement and find a half-mad Dr Crocker standing over the dismembered remains of Earl after a botched surgery. Dr Crocker kills himself out of grief and Dr Sun walks in and demands to know what's going on. You explain everything and return to the Agency. Queries: The trap-door to the basement is right next to Dr Sun so he should really loving know what's going on. Also Earl must be missing for several days to merit an investigation, which means that Dr Crocker has been in the basement for days with Earl's corpse, and Dr Sun never thought to enter the room at any point. If GK Chesterton had porridge for brains he would have written a story of this caliber. Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 00:49 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 00:37
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The Last Giant is so pissed at you when you fight him because you've already defeated him before in the past through time-travel. So how is it that he drops a soul each time you beat him? Also how did he recognize me? I was wearing a helmet both times I fought him.
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Dec 5, 2018 01:13
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