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Yeah, I don't really know what to say about it. https://twitter.com/bobkopp/status/1070393379702362118 I look at charts like that and think, well, poo poo. And considering what is necessary to shift that curve now... I keep typing stuff and then deleting it.
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Dec 5, 2018 20:38
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Mozi posted:Yeah, I don't really know what to say about it. That chart doesn't look good at all, however the one encouragement I can give people is climate change is very much an almost daily news article now. It's an issue that is happening right now, the effects are noticeable, and it is becoming impossible to just deny it. Governments and corporations may not give a poo poo, but people will and it is up to us to hold them accountable. A sign of encouragement, a major US utility just announced they will aim to be 80% carbon free by 2030 https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/12/5/18126920/xcel-energy-100-percent-clean-carbon-free
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Dec 5, 2018 20:45
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Solaris 2.0 posted:This is most disappointing but, honestly also expected. China and India keeping growing and they will get their energy wherever they can, which unfortunately still means lots of coal. I had a heard a lot of hub-hub about those two countries trying to switch away from coal because their citizens are literally choking to death, but I don't know enough details to see if that is actually going to start happening. China is trying to get 150,000 MW of nuclear by the 2040s and they are pretty on track IIRC since the CPC has made it a priority and are willing to crack skulls when needed, especially as they plan to eventually have a turnkey product for export, but India is running into a lot of problems with local activism for many of their nuclear power projects.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:03
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Solaris 2.0 posted:That chart doesn't look good at all, however the one encouragement I can give people is climate change is very much an almost daily news article now. It's an issue that is happening right now, the effects are noticeable, and it is becoming impossible to just deny it. Governments and corporations may not give a poo poo, but people will and it is up to us to hold them accountable. Like Paris? Hmm....
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Dec 5, 2018 22:25
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VideoGameVet posted:Like Paris? Hmm.... This is a piss poor post that took almost no thought or nerve connectivity to make, but I'll respond. I would like to think there is a difference between a pledge from a national government, and a pledge from a private entity with actual trends to back it up. As the article points out, renewable are becoming cheaper, cheaper than natural gas in some cases. Also people are becoming more and more comfortable with wanting renewable solutions. Does this mean the company will make their stated goals? Maybe, maybe not. But we should take any and all pledges as positives, however it IS up to us, the voters, the consumers to hold these organizations and utilities accountable. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 22:36
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Solaris 2.0 posted:This is a piss poor post that took almost no thought or nerve connectivity to make, but I'll respond. Let me try to make the argument here. Climate Change Inaction is a good example of the "Tragedy of the Commons." People will make long-term poor decisions for short-term gains. In the case of the Paris Riots, climate change is a lesser concern to the protesters than paying more for diesel fuel.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:49
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VideoGameVet posted:Let me try to make the argument here. Some dudes using diesel fuel does gently caress all for climate change compared to the output of big energy extraction companies. It's once more forcing those with the least flexibility to pay to shoulder the burden while the mega-corporations causing the problem sail along unimpeded. Also the tragedy of the commons was a dumb thought experiment by a dude who never did any actual research to back it up. When individuals manage a commons they actually do talk to each other and work out rules for sustainably using it. It's only when a capitalist takes charge of what was formerly commons that they'll proceed to gut its long term prospects for those short term gains and shareholder dividends.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:59
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VideoGameVet posted:Let me try to make the argument here. I was confused and thought you meant the Paris Climate Accords versus the Paris Riots.
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Dec 5, 2018 23:05
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Solaris 2.0 posted:As the article points out, renewable are becoming cheaper, cheaper than natural gas in some cases. The fact that people think this means anything is a huge issue with our ability to tackle the problem. It doesn't. It doesn't matter at all. It means gently caress all. All IPCC scenarios already assume renewables will be cheaper - it's projected and accounted for when it comes to decarbonization. But it's not enough. It's not enough that they become cheaper and (with some vigorous prodding) gradually replace the grid, that just gives us RCP8.5, at best. Repeat after me: The cost of nuclear and renewables doesn't loving matter. It doesn't matter because to actually turn this boat around they have to be pursued regardless of cost. Aggressively so. That natural gas plant you opened 3 years ago? No, shut it the gently caress down, gently caress growth needs, gently caress those jobs, and gently caress the investors. THAT is the kind of political will needed. THAT is why we're utterly hosed.
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Dec 5, 2018 23:58
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Conspiratiorist posted:
Yes we already know we are hosed but that's not what this thread is for. This thread, or so Friendbot has wished it to be, is to discuss climate change related news, advances in technology related to renewables, discussion of advocacy, ect. You wanna go cry how hosed everything is and we're all gonna die anyway so what's the point? Everyone in this thread knows how bleak the outlook is we don't need you crying about it. If you just want to scream WE'RE ALL hosed NONE OF THIS WILL MATTER OH GOD then yea, go make your own thread. Or better yet, seek help or try to live life outside of these forums.
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Dec 6, 2018 00:09
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My horse for the death of nothing matters. Knock it the gently caress off.
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Dec 6, 2018 00:12
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Solaris 2.0 posted:You wanna go cry how hosed everything is and we're all gonna die anyway so what's the point? Everyone in this thread knows how bleak the outlook is we don't need you crying about it. If you just want to scream WE'RE ALL hosed NONE OF THIS WILL MATTER OH GOD then yea, go make your own thread. Or better yet, seek help or try to live life outside of these forums. His point is incredibly important if we're discussing energy generation, though. Xcel's pledge is a good thing, obviously, but those dates most likely coincide with plans to shut down their existing aging coal plants anyway since most of those units are from the 70s or very early 80s. Meanwhile, new natural gas capacity is going up throughout the US and India will be building out its coal capacity until at least 2030. All of that is capacity that is going to continue to operate through 2050 and beyond. I get that you want to be optimistic, but any kind of honest discussion about energy generation has to focus on the fact that the cost of renewables is no longer all that meaningful. It was meaningful decades ago, but we're now at the point where meeting emissions targets means scrapping relatively new infrastructure rather than just replacing old capacity as it ages out. That isn't "nothing matters," it's just the reality of the problem. edit- also, the 20% of their capacity that Xcel won't switch to renewables until around 2050? It lines up pretty well with the parts of their fleet that are only about ten years old. In other words, there's no indication that they plan to shut down a significant number of units that aren't already nearing end of lifespan. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 00:49
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There's a CSPAM thread for nothing matters posting, it's nice https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3866036 We can let people in this thread pretend that they can make a difference in peace IMO.
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Dec 6, 2018 00:53
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Paradoxish posted:His point is incredibly important if we're discussing energy generation, though. I’m actually not optimistic and I, along with everyone else who posts here, know what we are currently doing isn’t enough. And even if we meet all our goals, we are only fighting to make climate change less bad, not preventing it. Hell, the methane trapped beneath the permafrost is enough to gently caress our poo poo up even ignoring all the CO2 we’ve pumped into the atmosphere. But what ive found is that in the previous version of this thread, someone (such as myself) would post an article about how organized X is now going 100% renewables or scientist Y has an idea to turn excess CO2 into fuel. That would then be met with a barrage of posts of how its not enough, we’re still hosed, who cares, ect. Which frankly isn’t helpful. If we want to discuss how our society, our way of life, will never be the same then fine. If we want to discuss how millions may die, then ok. But responding to every poster who comes in here with “gently caress you dumbass we’re still hosed even if we do all those things “ isn’t helpful, and it frankly makes people just want to give up. gently caress that, i want to inspire people to get involved and force change, no matter how bleak it may all seem.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:02
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Mozi posted:Yeah, I don't really know what to say about it.  friendbot2000 posted:German Company called Greenpeace Energy is trying to gradually buy up all of Germany's coal plants and lignite mines building renewables in their stead and working to restore the land damaged by the open pit lignite mines. Their plan involves absorbing all the workers from the coal plants and mines and putting them to work in renewables and land management. Reducing coal and supporting workers transitioning to other jobs: good "Working" to "restore" the land damaged by lignite mines: extremely uncool and bad. We have a severe lack of early successional habitat in Germany, causing serious declines and local extinctions of open land species which have lost most of their original habitats. We definitely don't lack mediocre planted forest which about 99.9% of mine restoration attempts turn into (even if the mining destroyed an ecologically valuable forest, it's better to do nothing after mining stops and let nature take its course than to put a much shittier forest there), so the one benefit of having had an open pit coal mine disappears under well-intentioned but destructive busywork. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 01:15
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:
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Dec 6, 2018 01:33
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Yes we already know we are hosed but that's not what this thread is for. This thread, or so Friendbot has wished it to be, is to discuss climate change related news, advances in technology related to renewables, discussion of advocacy, ect. No, you listen. My post isn't nihilism, it's a call for honest discussion of our issues. As Paradoxish elaborated on, the cost of renewables isn't relevant, nor is the pledges of an utilities company to, 10 years down the line, not replace their end-of-life coal plants with new coal plants. That isn't progress,  doing its thing.It's cool you want to motivate people, but be realistic: effective action regarding energy policy is, in this tyool 2018, to immediately cease operation of and tear down existing carbon-intensive infrastructure. To imply that anything less than that is progress is downright misleading, and enabling the milquetoast action policy of token efforts that earn green-thumb brownie points but amount to nothing.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:43
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Hi thread, longtime lurker here. I often see people opting out of having children in light of climate change and/or telling others to do the same. I'm aware that there's a huge carbon footprint associated with having kids. Are folks also opting out because things are likely to be so bad in the lifetimes of today's kids (and adults) that they don't want to worry about what'll happen to them? Or is it more that having a lot of savings in the future will be so important? Both? Other things I'm not thinking of here? I know adoption is somewhat better on the carbon footprint issue, but obviously not the other major concerns...
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Dec 6, 2018 01:46
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Zugzwang posted:Hi thread, longtime lurker here. I opted out of children for a bunch of reasons but chiefly because I think bringing a child into the world at this point is frankly unethical and that kid is hosed if I do. I plan to adopt or foster tho since those kids are already born and deserve to be taken care of.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:49
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i'm having a baby
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Dec 6, 2018 01:53
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fauna posted:(same ecology goon as before, i refuse to do three days in the kitty for absorbing the jordan river into my thirsty womanhood.) i respectfully disagree that mediocre planted forest is worse than nothing, because even stunted single-level evenly-spaced saplings that are all exactly the same age and species provide habitat for something, even if it's just invertebrates. poor habitat > no habitat imo. but i agree with you that 90% of mine rehab jobs are woefully executed greenwashing and a huge waste of time and money that provide about as much ecological value as a golf course I respectfully disagree with you respectful disagreement. Given that Germany has thousands of square kilometers of mediocre planted forest, there exists pretty much no species that simultaneously does well in mediocre planted forest and is in any way endangered. However, outside of the high alps, we largely lack any habitats where vegetation cover is incomplete, and therefore virtually all pioneer species that don't find train tracks to be acceptable habitat are seriously threatened. While blank rock or sand with a few leaves poking out might not look as pretty as a planted forest, it is actually home to a diverse and threatened community of plant and animal species. Planting lovely forest where open ground could undergo natural succession is therefore, in fact, worse than doing nothing.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:54
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Mine tailings cause heavy metals contamination and need to be remediated if you want much of anything to grow there ever.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:56
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Hello Sailor posted:Mine tailings cause heavy metals contamination and need to be remediated if you want much of anything to grow there ever. Yeah but at that point it's "get heavy metals out of the pit" not "cover the pit in spruce and beech". Also many German coal mines have fairly harmless tailings which are undergoing natural succession just fine.
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Dec 6, 2018 01:59
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suck my woke dick posted:I respectfully disagree with you respectful disagreement. Given that Germany has thousands of square kilometers of mediocre planted forest, there exists pretty much no species that simultaneously does well in mediocre planted forest and is in any way endangered. However, outside of the high alps, we largely lack any habitats where vegetation cover is incomplete, and therefore virtually all pioneer species that don't find train tracks to be acceptable habitat are seriously threatened. While blank rock or sand with a few leaves poking out might not look as pretty as a planted forest, it is actually home to a diverse and threatened community of plant and animal species. Planting lovely forest where open ground could undergo natural succession is therefore, in fact, worse than doing nothing.
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Dec 6, 2018 02:26
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I am but an amateur and new to this land, but I feel that central Canada having virtually no snow while swinging between -32 at night and nearly 0 during the day is probably not normal. Maybe.
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Dec 6, 2018 03:16
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Lightning Knight posted:I opted out of children for a bunch of reasons but chiefly because I think bringing a child into the world at this point is frankly unethical and that kid is hosed if I do.
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Dec 6, 2018 03:31
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Conspiratiorist posted:The fact that people think this means anything is a huge issue with our ability to tackle the problem. I dunno, "gently caress those fuckers and gently caress up their poo poo" is the kind of action that, historically, people can get behind. And it's the kind of activity that human beings are indisputably and remarkably effective at. "Consider carefully the long term costs and benefits of this or that and implement a peaceful long-term and reasonable economic plan over decades", that we pretty much suck at. If the discourse around climate change really started to shift away from abstract economics and hand-wringing over collective behavior, to the kind of single-minded us vs. them "gently caress those fuckers" thinking you illustrate (which it really needs to), the overall situation would be a lot more hopeful.
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Dec 6, 2018 04:11
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Morbus posted:I dunno, "gently caress those fuckers and gently caress up their poo poo" is the kind of action that, historically, people can get behind. And it's the kind of activity that human beings are indisputably and remarkably effective at. Climate change is the fault of India and China, and climate refugees steal jobs and bring crime.
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Dec 6, 2018 04:24
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Conspiratiorist posted:Climate change is the fault of India and China, and climate refugees steal jobs and bring crime. those are probably the excuses the elites will go with yes
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Dec 6, 2018 04:43
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"other countries are polluting worse so we shouldn't have to do anything" is an insanely tempting line of thought to follow but also a dumb one
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Dec 6, 2018 04:44
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Yinlock posted:"other countries are polluting worse so we shouldn't have to do anything" is an insanely tempting line of thought to follow but also a dumb one It's the main argument being used here in Australia, because despite having some of the highest per-capita emissions in the world our small population means we produce about "only" about 2% of global CO2 emissions.
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Dec 6, 2018 04:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:Climate change is the fault of India and China, and climate refugees steal jobs and bring crime. I'm assuming you meant that this is what the line would be from those in power and this isn't a random racist one-liner?
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Dec 6, 2018 05:26
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm assuming you meant that this is what the line would be from those in power and this isn't a random racist one-liner? Correct. Though, not "would be" - it's already going on.
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Dec 6, 2018 05:34
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Conspiratiorist posted:Correct. Right no it was just reported and it looks bad without that context so I was double checking. 
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Dec 6, 2018 05:38
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Looking at the report, the vast, vast majority of emissions rise has been from China's massive construction projects aimed towards phasing out old coal for renewables - which ironically create more emissions. These will be temporary, and I hold on to the hope that China will peak emissions by 2020-22 as more and more coal and gas is phased out, buying more time for mitigation efforts.
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Dec 6, 2018 07:42
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nickmeister posted:I was wondering what sort of technology humanity would need to survive in the harsh environment we can look forward to in the coming decades. Does anyone know if theres a good place to read about this kind of stuff? http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Death (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 6, 2018 08:01
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I live on a sheep farm. may we please be allowed another baby?
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Dec 6, 2018 09:25
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Nuclear War posted:I live on a sheep farm. may we please be allowed another baby? actually you'll find that excessive populations of sharp-hooved ungulates contribute significantly to 
fauna fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Dec 6, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 09:32
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i got really excited a few years ago because i thought that kangaroos somehow didn't produce methane and for a glorious few months the greater scientific community thought the same, but then they had to publish an addendum to the "kangaroos somehow don't produce methane!" study that basically said "actually yes they do, almost as much as cows in fact, we just measured it wrong the first time" and we were all crushed, "we" being the kangaroo meat industry, which is not a huge industry
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Dec 6, 2018 09:38
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they do much less damage to our tired old sands with their soft little feet, though. and they're grazers rather than browsers, so they just snip grasses off mid-stem while cows rip them out by the root. cows are just not good for australia. sheep are almost as bad the way we currently farm them but i believe that can be changed
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Dec 6, 2018 09:41
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