Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

fuf: Sep 12, 2004; haha

Mukaikubo posted:

So is there any collected "Now that the game's completely different, again, here's everything that changed and how to actually play because everything you learned the past few years of playing this game is gone"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm confident they're great changes, I just don't know if I have the time to relearn Stellaris 3 from the ground up by trial, error, and discarded games where I got myself into a fail state without knowing it .

null_pointer posted:

Dude, someone link me to a tutorial which explains resources, jobs, districts, everything like I'm a loving moron, which, apparently, I am. I'm bouncing off of the new systems hard.

Say what you want about tiles, they were at least immediate and intuitive. I have legitimately no idea what the gently caress is going on

watch the youtube video from a few pages back

# ? Dec 7, 2018 15:54

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:27

fuf: Sep 12, 2004; haha

Learning complex new mechanics is like the whole joy of Paradox games for me so it's weird seeing people distressed that their old knowledge doesn't apply any more. This is the fun part!

# ? Dec 7, 2018 15:56

AG3: Feb 4, 2004; Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.; Oven Wrangler

No one who's played this game before wants to do the new tutorial because that would be admitting defeat. I've always learned Paradox games by failing hard repeatedly, so I'm not going to start doing the tutorials now!

# ? Dec 7, 2018 15:58

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Davincie posted:

i upgraded my research labs without paying much attention to the gas upkeep, before noticing (strategic resources are kinda hidden) i was running a deficit, which led to 25% less job income, which led to other deficits, which i couldn�t recover asap because i had just spend all my stuff. took a while to get out and is easy to happen.

Hmm. The aggregated resource counters, they show monthly income, right? Do they indicate that you're in deficit when one of them goes negative, even if you're positive in aggregate? If not, they probably should at least go orange or something. Maybe show total/average/minimum incomes of the set?

Anno posted:

Still early days but I feel like my Megachurch is actually quite strong. It’s probably because the three empires closest to me have been pretty down to commercial pact it up, though. If nothing else Megacorps are maybe too dependent on their neighbors and then the rest of the galaxy being of certain flavors. Too many hives/robots/assholes and you’d be in kind of a bad spot.

Clearly galgen needs a hugbox-thunderdome slider.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 15:58

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Shadowlyger posted:

Yeah if I had one word for this update it would be "unintuitive."

Once you get the hang of it it all clicks super well, the problem is the planet screen is designed for ants and is trying to cram way too much info into way too little space. Apparently there are people running Stellaris on 640x480 that need to be catered to.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 15:59

Psychotic Weasel: Jun 24, 2004; Bang! You're dead.

After 1300+ hours with the old Stellaris it's taking some time to unlearn old habits and figure out all the new changes but I am getting there. I do find the game much slower now with the addition of alloys. Have to figure out all my build orders again.

The biggest change I've found so far is when you see a building is ready for an upgrade do not just randomly mash the upgrade arrow. Resist the urge. Instead look at the planet, what the pops are working on already and what rare resources you have to work with then decide if you really need more jobs from that building. Until you've capped out a planet's districts you probably don't need to upgrade anything.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:00

skeleton warrior: Nov 12, 2016

fuf posted:

Learning complex new mechanics is like the whole joy of Paradox games for me so it's weird seeing people distressed that their old knowledge doesn't apply any more. This is the fun part!

Learning mechanics and interplay is fun

Having the empire you�ve spent three hours building suddenly and completely collapse for no apparent reason is not

Especially because the complete lack of information on why it collapsed means you don�t actually learn anything about the mechanics, you just learn the game hates you

AG3 posted:

No one who's played this game before wants to do the new tutorial because that would be admitting defeat. I've always learned Paradox games by failing hard repeatedly, so I'm not going to start doing the tutorials now!

If you�re playing robots, the game disables the tutorial, so go gently caress yourself

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:01

TalonDemonKing: May 4, 2011

null_pointer posted:

Dude, someone link me to a tutorial which explains resources, jobs, districts, everything like I'm a loving moron, which, apparently, I am. I'm bouncing off of the new systems hard.

Say what you want about tiles, they were at least immediate and intuitive. I have legitimately no idea what the gently caress is going on

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:08

Hungry: Jul 14, 2006

I was having fun while I was learning the new mechanics, the bad only started once I began to understand them and realise how they fit together. I just don't like what I'm seeing here.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:08

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

skeleton warrior posted:

If you’re playing robots, the game disables the tutorial, so go gently caress yourself

Learn to walk before you run

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:09

Fintilgin: Sep 29, 2004; Fintilgin sweeps!

Splicer posted:

Once you get the hang of it it all clicks super well, the problem is the planet screen is designed for ants and is trying to cram way too much info into way too little space. Apparently there are people running Stellaris on 640x480 that need to be catered to.

Yeah, my biggest problem so far is how much info is jammed into the tiny planet screen and how much you need to open subscreens and tooltip everything.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:09

raverrn: Apr 5, 2005; Unidentified spacecraft inbound from delta line.

All Silpheed squadrons scramble now!

What the gently caress does the Harmony tradition that reduces stratum demotion actually do? How often are you losing jobs?

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:10

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

So do ships on patrol... not actually patrol? I set up a patrol order on a single-corvette fleet to go between Point A and B, and it goes to point B just fine (and the Patrol icon is highlighted as the order is active), but as soon as it gets to Point B, it just orbits and doesn't do poo poo. The Patrol icon then un-highlights. I'd sorta expect it to turn around and go the way it came on a loop, since that's what a patrol is.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:12

Anno: May 10, 2017; I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

General consensus seems to be that robits are undertuned right now. Wiz already posted that they�re looking into some buffs for the coming balance pass.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:13

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

The sector AI doesn't seem to know how to upgrade things and/or it always decides that things shouldn't be upgraded because they cost rare resources. There's also no longer an option to allow it to replace districts or buildings, which means once the planet get full on districts or buildings the sector AI may as well not exist. It also seems utterly confused and useless when dealing with Habitats.

Also I think Habitats are probably really bad now. Unlike planetary districts, Habitat districts force you to choose between housing and jobs. And to add insult to injury, you can't build the normal buildings that provide housing or jobs on them either? So you're stuck with either a lot of jobs and no people, or a lot of people with no jobs, and it's bad all around. Don't build Habitats and/or fix habitats please.

Edit: Wait, I just realized you can building industry on them. I guess that's probably the best use.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:13

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Drone posted:

So do ships on patrol... not actually patrol? I set up a patrol order on a single-corvette fleet to go between Point A and B, and it goes to point B just fine (and the Patrol icon is highlighted as the order is active), but as soon as it gets to Point B, it just orbits and doesn't do poo poo. The Patrol icon then un-highlights. I'd sorta expect it to turn around and go the way it came on a loop, since that's what a patrol is.

Select patrol and left click the end point

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:14

LordMune: Nov 21, 2006; Helim needed to be invisible.

null_pointer posted:

Dude, someone link me to a tutorial which explains resources, jobs, districts, everything like I'm a loving moron, which, apparently, I am. I'm bouncing off of the new systems hard.

Say what you want about tiles, they were at least immediate and intuitive. I have legitimately no idea what the gently caress is going on

You can turn on the in-game tutorial in the settings, it's been updated to explain the new concepts to some extent.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:15

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

Aethernet posted:

- As multiple posters have identified, Pop is now King. While space mining has been improved, you still need pops to make most alloys. I suspect there is some balancing to be done to make sure +growth is not the God Stat.

There will always be a meaningful stat that meaningfully affects the main gate thing. At release stellaris it was all about Energy. Then in 2.0 it was all about Minerals. Now it's all about pops. None of these are the God Stat, this is the rookie designer's trap of thinking that an optimal path is something to fix. Most designs have a few of them.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:16

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

Bedurndurn posted:

I don't know if this is your specific issue, but I kept getting caught by this exact scenario:

The goddamn second a better than poo poo-tier job opens up (poo poo tier jobs are farmer, miner, clerk and power plant tech), they all immediately quit and go to do that instead.

So right now you have 10 dudes who work in the mines. They make a base of 4 minerals each.

If you open up 10 artisan jobs on that same planet, those 10 guys who used to work at the mine now each consume 6 minerals / month each to make stuff.

So your happy +40 mineral / month buffer you thought you had is now -100 minerals / month.

Yeah I was getting monster resource swings this way too. You can hit the Minus button on jobs you don't want pops to switch to and they'll avoid them however many times you hit minus. If 8 new slots open up and you hit minus 6 times, they'll only fill two slots. The minus button 'disables' a slot permanently. This is real important when 10 fabricator jobs open up!

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:17

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Psychotic Weasel posted:

The biggest change I've found so far is when you see a building is ready for an upgrade do not just randomly mash the upgrade arrow.

It's like you're telling me not to breathe.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:18

Bedurndurn: Dec 4, 2008

What do people think about habitats? They seem like rubbish for the two perks you spend on them. One of the new ecumenopolii can hold an absolute ton of pops (like literally hundreds?) and free up slots for goods/alloy production all over your empire.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:20

Shadowlyger: Nov 5, 2009; ElvUI super fan at your service!

Ask me any and all questions about UI customization via PM

I think my largest problem, the point where I just closed the game, was when I found myself flooded in pops and facing the prospect of having to resettle a shitload of them to who-knows-where because they just never stop growing or, if they do, it's well past the point of being buried in Deviancy/having to micromanage the "stop drone growth" button.

Like at least with tiles I could fill up a planet and it'd be done. Now I have to babysit every planet for a hundred years.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:25

Psychotic Weasel: Jun 24, 2004; Bang! You're dead.

prefect posted:

It's like you're telling me not to breathe.

It's difficult for me, too... those bright yellow arrows sitting there, mocking me. Daring me to press them.

But they'll crash your economy so dont. The planetary capitals are the only thing you should be aiming to update as soon as you can. Upgraded alloy foundries and civilian industries will suck you dry if you let them (and not in the good way).

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:26

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Shadowlyger posted:

I think my largest problem, the point where I just closed the game, was when I found myself flooded in pops and facing the prospect of having to resettle a shitload of them to who-knows-where because they just never stop growing or, if they do, it's well past the point of being buried in Deviancy.

Like at least with tiles I could fill up a planet and it'd be done. Now I have to babysit every planet for a hundred years.

You can stop growth on a planet for a small stab hit and influence cost

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:27

Zurai: Feb 13, 2012; Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

Shadowlyger posted:

I think my largest problem, the point where I just closed the game, was when I found myself flooded in pops and facing the prospect of having to resettle a shitload of them to who-knows-where because they just never stop growing or, if they do, it's well past the point of being buried in Deviancy/having to micromanage the "stop drone growth" button.

Like at least with tiles I could fill up a planet and it'd be done. Now I have to babysit every planet for a hundred years.

You can turn off planet growth with a decision from the main planet screen.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:27

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Anno posted:

General consensus seems to be that robits are undertuned right now. Wiz already posted that they�re looking into some buffs for the coming balance pass.

Robit early and midgame in painfully slow and needs a poo poo ton of resettling to operate at peak efficiency which is awful and tedious. Once you hit late game though, they become absurd, but getting there is rough.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:27

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Rumda posted:

You can stop growth on a planet for a small stab hit and influence cost

Zurai posted:

You can turn off planet growth with a decision from the main planet screen.

You can even do a nice version which only reduces by 75%, and/or go genetic ascendancy and dump a growth penalty on everyone for two free points.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:30

Shadowlyger: Nov 5, 2009; ElvUI super fan at your service!

Ask me any and all questions about UI customization via PM

Zurai posted:

You can turn off planet growth with a decision from the main planet screen.

Yes, and having to remember to do that on every planet once they're filled is obnoxious. Not that there's really a concept of a planet being "filled", because if I ever upgrade a building whoops, this planet needs more pops now!

It just feels like you're never done with any given planet, which is great fun when you've got three and a loving nightmare when you've got twenty.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:30

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

Cynic Jester posted:

Robit early and midgame in painfully slow and needs a poo poo ton of resettling to operate at peak efficiency which is awful and tedious. Once you hit late game though, they become absurd, but getting there is rough.

They are glacially slow on the first planets it's bruuutal :negative:

. Hoping metal worlds turn this franchise around.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:31

Zurai: Feb 13, 2012; Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

A few unemployed pops aren't that big a deal. Even less so if you're using a halfway humane standard of living.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:32

Shadowlyger: Nov 5, 2009; ElvUI super fan at your service!

Ask me any and all questions about UI customization via PM

Ham Sandwiches posted:

They are glacially slow on the first planets it's bruuutal . Hoping metal worlds turn this franchise around.

On this note, do machine worlds still kick all the cyborgs off?

Zurai posted:

A few unemployed pops aren't that big a deal. Even less so if you're using a halfway humane standard of living.

Assimilators do not have living standards. A few unemployed pops quickly earns you Corrupt Drone jobs and kicks your stability in the teeth.

Shadowlyger fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 7, 2018

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:32

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

raverrn posted:

What the gently caress does the Harmony tradition that reduces stratum demotion actually do? How often are you losing jobs?

If you get new pops that are better at a job they'll displace the ones that are worse at it, so it depends on how often you get new pops coming in that are better at specialist jobs.

Shadowlyger posted:

Yes, and having to remember to do that on every planet once they're filled is obnoxious. Not that there's really a concept of a planet being "filled", because if I ever upgrade a building whoops, this planet needs more pops now!

It just feels like you're never done with any given planet, which is great fun when you've got three and a loving nightmare when you've got twenty.

Don't worry about too many pops. They'll naturally slow down growing and emmigrate.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:33

Benagain: Oct 10, 2007; Can you see that I am serious?; Fun Shoe

I am confused but also digging this update

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:34

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Pylons posted:

Social Welfare is also extremely good since you won't have to worry about unemployed pops dragging down your stability.

#LifeImitatesStellaris

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:39

Ice Fist: Jun 20, 2012; ^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

Benagain posted:

I am confused but also digging this update

Pretty much this. I played for about 3 hours yesterday. I have no loving clue anymore how to go about building poo poo anymore. But the update is still good.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:41

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

I do get people upset at planets no longer being 'done'; I'm not sure I'll be able to hand planets off to sectors as I just don't trust the AI.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:41

Davincie: Jul 7, 2008

Autonomous Monster posted:

Hmm. The aggregated resource counters, they show monthly income, right? Do they indicate that you're in deficit when one of them goes negative, even if you're positive in aggregate? If not, they probably should at least go orange or something. Maybe show total/average/minimum incomes of the set?

Clearly galgen needs a hugbox-thunderdome slider.

only shows net positive, despite one being 'negative'. well i guess its at -0 now after a bunch of effort, but its not positive at least

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:42

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Shadowlyger posted:

Yes, and having to remember to do that on every planet once they're filled is obnoxious. Not that there's really a concept of a planet being "filled", because if I ever upgrade a building whoops, this planet needs more pops now!

It just feels like you're never done with any given planet, which is great fun when you've got three and a loving nightmare when you've got twenty.

Keep your housing about on par with your jobs and your pops will naturally emigrate from the "full" planets, if they have somewhere to go.

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:42

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

Splicer posted:

Keep your housing about on par with your jobs and your pops will naturally emigrate from the "full" planets, if they have somewhere to go.

EFFICIENT PLANET MANAGEMENT REQUIRES LEBENSRAUM

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:43

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:27

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

So I'm having fun updating all my custom system initialisers and jazz:

common\solar_system_initializers\prescripted_species_systems.txt:

code:

planet = {
	name = "NAME_Earth"
	class = "pc_continental"
	orbit_distance = 25
	orbit_angle = 120
	size = 16
	starting_planet = yes
	has_ring = no
	entity = "continental_planet_earth_entity"
	deposit_blockers = none
	modifiers = none
	flags = { planet_earth }
	
	init_effect = {
		prevent_anomaly = yes
	}
	
	moon = {
		name = "NAME_Luna"
		class = "pc_barren_cold"
		size = 5
		orbit_distance = 12
		orbit_angle = 40
		has_ring = no
		entity = "cold_barren_planet_luna_entity"
	}
}

"Wait a sec. How are they getting the custom deposits/blockers on here?"

common\scripted_effects\01_start_of_game_effects.txt:

code:

# Special for Earth
generate_earth_deposits_and_blockers = {
	clear_deposits = yes
	add_deposit = d_mesopotamian_urban_corridor	
	add_deposit = d_boswash_metropolitan_axis
	add_deposit = d_mauritanian_security_zone
	add_deposit = d_great_albertan_crater
	add_deposit = d_scandinavian_reclamation_sector	
	add_deposit = d_saharan_irrigation_project
	add_deposit = d_pearl_river_agglomerate
	add_deposit = d_great_pacific_garbage_patch
	add_deposit = d_failing_infrastructure_earth
	add_deposit = d_decrepit_dwellings
	if = {
		limit = { owner = { is_machine_empire = yes } }
		add_deposit = d_rushing_waterfalls
	}
	if = {
		limit = { owner = { has_valid_civic = civic_machine_servitor } }
		add_deposit = d_hot_springs
	}	
}

"...okaaay, but where is that being called?"

events\game_start.txt:

code:

# this: capital planet
# from: founder species
planet_event = {
	id = game_start.12
	hide_window = yes
	is_triggered_only = yes

	immediate = {
		if = {
			limit = { 
				NOT = { has_planet_flag = planet_earth }
			}
			generate_start_deposits_and_blockers = yes
		}
		else = {
			generate_earth_deposits_and_blockers = yes
		}
		generate_start_buildings_and_districts = yes
		generate_start_pops = yes
		generate_home_planet_final_pass = yes
	}
}

"What the gently caress :psyduck:

"

So anyone wanting to do their own custom deposits has to extend/clobber this event. Apart from just being awkward this is going to be tricky from a mod inter-compatibility standpoint.

Davincie posted:

only shows net positive, despite one being 'negative'. well i guess its at -0 now after a bunch of effort, but its not positive at least

Yeah, that's hosed. Drop a feature request on the forums maybe?

# ? Dec 7, 2018 16:46

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