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I thought Eleanor was perfect Chidi torture! He's obsessed with what is morally correct, and she is (was) unapologetically morally bankrupt. Her way is to dismiss his obsessive life's work out of hand. Michael really lucked into that one.
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Dec 8, 2018 06:03
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| # ? May 26, 2024 17:34 |
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Chidi and Tahani were supposed to go on thinking they belonged in the good place for many years in Michael's original plan.
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Dec 8, 2018 06:03
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Can't wait for next week's episode!  Okay, thoughtful post - they probably aren't returning to real Earth any time soon, and in hindsight I still feel like the show really slowed down there. Two episodes of seeing into character's personal lives isn't really a bad thing, but the plot barely advanced for weeks, and then we had the series' version of a clip show!
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Dec 8, 2018 06:13
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I am guessing they will find a temporary refuge in the Good Place, but the Good Place people won't ultimately be swayed by Michael and we move on to phase 41 in the 37th episode of the show.
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Dec 8, 2018 06:21
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The Lord Bude posted:I think a more likely, (and arguably better) direction for the show would be rather than having the bad place interfering with the system, reveal that the system itself has naturally become flawed - maybe as humanity expanded and society grew more complex it became harder and harder to get points vs lose points, such that fewer and fewer people were getting in until it eventually stopped. The system is broken because its expanded too far beyond the original scope. I could see something like this. Handing out rocks just doesn't cut it anymore. Technological progress means that people have more theoretical capacity to do good than ever before, but the world is too complex for anyone to efficiently use that capacity. I kinda still feel it's going to be the bad place having a finger on the scale, though.
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Dec 8, 2018 06:27
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QuoProQuid posted:I guess Chidi’s torture was being given a perfect little apartment that he could never spend any time in because he was constantly being enlisted to help other people? Maybe the apartment had exactly two of everything that he had to choose between every day.
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Dec 8, 2018 06:45
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The only small problem I have is how long it has taken Michael to realize that the point system is completely screwed up, since it was clear to us viewers after the first few episodes.
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Dec 8, 2018 08:08
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Oasx posted:The only small problem I have is how long it has taken Michael to realize that the point system is completely screwed up, since it was clear to us viewers after the first few episodes. When you grow up in a system it takes a lot longer to recognise the flaws of the system (cf. humans, capitalism)
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Dec 8, 2018 08:33
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Another aspect of Doug Forcett, the guy you'd think would have the best chance of getting into the Good Place, due to his actually correct beliefs on how the afterlife works, he has no idea what the point value of different actions are, or even if they are positive or negative. He might have wasted his life doing deeds that only get a small amount of points, and missed out on doing things that gain you a lot of points. Like, living as a hermit may have prevented him losing points from bad interactions with people, but he's missed out on all the good he could have done for people as well. He may even have done things he thought would be gaining him points, that are actually losing him points instead. Like with the kid, Doug assumes he's getting points from 'keeping him happy' by doing whatever he wants. What if instead, he's been losing points because he's been helping that kid grow into a terrible person? Like, intentions are taken into account, but there seems to be a limit to that. Chidi spent his life intending to always do the 'right' thing, but is damned because his behaviour makes life a living hell for everyone around him, and he seems to not even be aware of that until Eleanor tells him they're actually in the Bad Place. Tahani also seems to have no self-awareness about her selfish motives until that revelation. So while doing good things won't get you points if you have the wrong motive, doing bad things without realising it, or doing bad things you think are good, either still loses you points, or, even your good intentions being taken into account, doesn't make enough of a difference to stop you from ending up in the Bad Place.
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Dec 8, 2018 10:26
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It's age. Something about age. Doug had a lot of points, but when the accountant found out what his age was he noped. Dying too old or without reproducing (and/or raising at least one child to adulthood) probably disqualifies you right off the bat.
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Dec 8, 2018 10:29
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NecroMonster posted:It's age. Something about age. Doug had a lot of points, but when the accountant found out what his age was he noped. Dying too old or without reproducing (and/or raising at least one child to adulthood) probably disqualifies you right off the bat. Or just 500k by 60 was not on track to the 2 mil (or whatever) cutoff
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Dec 8, 2018 10:34
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itt a lot of goons overrationalise the fact that The Good Place just has ridiculously high standards
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Dec 8, 2018 11:01
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So Mindy is the only person to come close in hundreds of year. Presumably she was a pretty dirtbag person. But then has an incredibly altruistic idea and follows through on it. To the point where we are lead to believe that had she stayed alive, she would make it to the good place, right? The issue is that she died before it followed through, right? Cause I could also see the argument that even if she founded the charity, if she lived for much longer she'd eventually offset the good points earned with her cocaine-y ways, given shes back on that train in the medium place. Like, her path to the good place only went down the path of: Total dirtbag -> amazing charity idea -> found amazing charity and run it for a while -> die at peak of goodness before having a chance to lose points. Or maybe I'm thinking too hard Goodness, i love this show.
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Dec 8, 2018 13:30
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Mameluke posted:If only Janet's powers worked on Earth, she could turn all coins into rocks and get everybody into the Good Place by gaming the system you know what happened in 1497 "June 13 – The Catholic Monarchs issue the ordinance of Medina del Campo, creating a money system based on the copper maravedí, creating the peso of 34 maravedis. In the next three centuries, this system will dominate international payments. It will be used in almost all parts of the Americas and large parts of Asia. It is the basis for a number of modern currencies, including the U.S. dollar." everyone on earth has been tainted by the invention of modern money
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Dec 8, 2018 14:31
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Goa Tse-tung posted:you know what happened in 1497 I like that kind of thing, don't know if it's intentional, but it's a cool coincidence if that's all it is.
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Dec 8, 2018 14:39
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double nine posted:I just want you all to know ... the corner cake was a lie. Ha, even when watching the episode he occasionally delivered his lines with shades of Wheatley and I was wondering "wait, is that the same guy?"
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Dec 8, 2018 14:42
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NecroMonster posted:It's age. Something about age. Doug had a lot of points, but when the accountant found out what his age was he noped. Dying too old or without reproducing (and/or raising at least one child to adulthood) probably disqualifies you right off the bat. Without knowing what the points cutoff for getting into the Good Place was, the age thing doesn't really tell us much other than older people will need more points than young people. The accountant said Doug was doing well, then said oh, he's in his fifties? Nope, not gonna make it. Maybe you're right, and people usually need the +1,000,000 points from raising a child to adulthood. Or it could mean that the Bad Place hacked it or it could just mean that people used to gain a lot more points per day. It's possible that there's something people are constantly doing that's draining their points away, or it's possible that the type of "good" things people are doing today just aren't worth as many points as the sorts of "good" things they did 500 years ago. Doug has a positive total, but it's possible that he's not aware of something negative that he's doing, or that the "good" things he does every day for some reason aren't worth very much. Or maybe everything is working as intended and you just have to have virtually no flaws to get in! Phenotype fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 15:54
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Doug's been losing points for not taking better care of himself first. Not in a selfish way. Like, you can't fulfill the obligations you have to others at the expense of you.
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Dec 8, 2018 15:59
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I've been assuming it's one or both of:
But that's still hard to reconcile with Mike Schur's spoilerish remarks from an interview: quote:[INTERVIEWER] Why has the Good Place been broken for so long?
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Dec 8, 2018 16:01
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I personally don't care about spoilers, but you should probably black-box that quote. It kinda derails the discussion we've been having, too. e: good man 
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Dec 8, 2018 16:04
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Rarity posted:itt a lot of goons overrationalise the fact that The Good Place just has ridiculously high standards Yeah also overrationalizing the bad place punishments considering it's all silly tongue in cheek jokes
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Dec 8, 2018 17:19
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Accretionist posted:I've been assuming it's one or both of: So is it something like the context of your actions is important as well? You're judged in relation to the maximum possible number of people you can help, and a globally interconnected world means that nobody can reach that number? Whereas a farrier in 6th-century France could give one set of free horseshoes to all the farmers in his 5 mile-wide world and be assured entry for having helped a large percentage of all people he could know? My other thought is that humanity in general was tainted by the mass genocide and violence that the Columbian Exchange prompted, but I don't know about that.
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Dec 8, 2018 17:48
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Mameluke posted:So is it something like the context of your actions is important as well? You're judged in relation to the maximum possible number of people you can help, and a globally interconnected world means that nobody can reach that number? Whereas a farrier in 6th-century France could give one set of free horseshoes to all the farmers in his 5 mile-wide world and be assured entry for having helped a large percentage of all people he could know? That's a good take. If it's about action-on-community then that could explain how globalization(?) screwed even the Sentinelese. Like, sorry pal, your community is now the world and you're negligent..
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Dec 8, 2018 17:59
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greententacle posted:Another aspect of Doug Forcett, the guy you'd think would have the best chance of getting into the Good Place, due to his actually correct beliefs on how the afterlife works, he has no idea what the point value of different actions are, or even if they are positive or negative. He might have wasted his life doing deeds that only get a small amount of points, and missed out on doing things that gain you a lot of points. Like, living as a hermit may have prevented him losing points from bad interactions with people, but he's missed out on all the good he could have done for people as well.
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Dec 8, 2018 18:14
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Do we know if it's 521 years in Earth time, or Jeremy Bearimy time?
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Dec 8, 2018 18:45
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eke out posted:"What was the thing you had to kiss?" Why did they make D'arcy kiss Stephen Merchant? 
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Dec 8, 2018 18:53
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Finally got to see the latest episode. Holy cow, one Emmy for D'Arcy Carden, please. A few episodes back, I was impressed by Simone's actress briefly channeling Eleanor so well, but D'Arcy managed to pull off that same trick for four characters for an entire episode, completely convincingly. And while I'm ordering awards statues, here's a nod to the lighting, editing and special effects people who seamlessly cut together five Janets in an infinite white void and made it look great. The pixelated transformations of Eleanor were pretty neat too. Hell, even the wardrobe people did great work, visually distinguishing the characters without being over-the-top about it. And finally, back in-universe, I have one tiny prediction: they're totally going to look up Donkey Doug in the Book of Dougs.
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Dec 8, 2018 20:07
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this may have been a better episode than Dance Dance ResolutionPowered Descent posted:
I mean, why wouldn't you?
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Dec 8, 2018 20:44
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Powered Descent posted:Finally got to see the latest episode. Chidi and Eleanor are actually the hardest ones to pull off, too. With Tahani and Jason you have the clothes and voice which do about half the work. But Eleanor's gag mocking Tahani's grudging acceptance of the dress Janet gave her was uncannily good. Like, I know it's Carden, but it FEELS like Bell.
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Dec 8, 2018 21:07
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Gaz-L posted:Chidi and Eleanor are actually the hardest ones to pull off, too. With Tahani and Jason you have the clothes and voice which do about half the work. But Eleanor's gag mocking Tahani's grudging acceptance of the dress Janet gave her was uncannily good. Like, I know it's Carden, but it FEELS like Bell. Also Chidi has a lot of quirks that it's probably easy to imitate some of, but only an exceptional mimic could get them all.
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Dec 8, 2018 21:13
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I really, really want the whole cast of The Good Place to guest on the new season of Veronica Mars, but I know it would be distracting.
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Dec 8, 2018 21:33
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If we assume that the system the system works and no one has gotten into the Good Place in more than 500 years, then that means Mindy Saint Claire, the only person to ever get into the Medium Place, is the best person to live during that time. And it would be because she made a foundation, which is a pretty bougie definition of good that we've seen doesn't count for much in the points system. So either the Bad Place demons poached everyone and they decided to let Mindy Saint Claire go, they missed her somehow, or the Good Place has a truely weird and specific criteria that she lucked into.
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Dec 8, 2018 22:00
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Powered Descent posted:And finally, back in-universe, I have one tiny prediction: they're totally going to look up Donkey Dad in the Book of Dougs. 
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Dec 8, 2018 22:04
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Mameluke posted:So is it something like the context of your actions is important as well? You're judged in relation to the maximum possible number of people you can help, and a globally interconnected world means that nobody can reach that number? Whereas a farrier in 6th-century France could give one set of free horseshoes to all the farmers in his 5 mile-wide world and be assured entry for having helped a large percentage of all people he could know? I think the first paragraph here is probably the winner.
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Dec 8, 2018 22:14
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Maybe they weight for individual age and species' age? Makes me think of The Onion's piece on babies: quote:Study Reveals: Babies are Stupid What if we aren't keeping up with our expected developmental milestones? Illiteracy and pants-making GBS threads are okay when you're 3. Not okay when you're 30.
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Dec 8, 2018 22:28
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I'm pretty sure if you're still pants making GBS threads at 3 you've already missed a developmental milestone.
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Dec 8, 2018 22:35
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I don't want lose points by being too judgmental here
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Dec 8, 2018 22:47
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Maybe the system isn't exactly corrupt but simply outdated. The accountant didn't imply that any of the actions would ever become reevaluated. Perhaps the first time some "ate a crop he didn't personally grow" he did it by stealing it from somebody else, who in turn starved to dead. So now that action automatically gives a ridiculous amount of negative points. On the other hand "buying produce" became a thing a bit later and is pretty much a normal mundane action which doesn't change the point total all that much. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't just assume that the demons would do such a vile thing as hacking.
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Dec 8, 2018 22:54
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I don't see any non-corrupt way you can have Forcett and St Clair coming even close without admitting a few people, Dan West or Norman Borlaug, say, if global impact is the main thing. (Maybe if the system has decided humans are a net negative, so saving/raising lives start eating the points they earned after a few years; so Mindy was an accounting glitch and helping animals is a better route to go by...)
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Dec 8, 2018 22:54
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Maybe it's some really stupid feedback loop. Earning less than a thousand points at the end of the day -2000 points. Actually losing points at the end of the day. -20000 points. If you think about it, there are points for every single action. So in theory, there should be some value of points for the act of earning points.
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Dec 8, 2018 23:00
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