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Zurai posted:Alright, so I'm working on a mod to tweak the economy. Right now, the mod: I like all of those changes, especially the manufactoring as a worker job and the foreman job. The upkeep and output tweaks I could take or leave. I'd play a mod with your changes basically. But please don't start putting more stuff than that in - like the suggestion for more buildings. If you do that make it a separate mod please. Incidentally if anyone is interested in trying how the game plays with rare resource extraction unlocked from the start, that mod is up on the workshop now. Ignore the Tech Card +1 I couldn't find that tech anyone where so there were no changes to that. Note you still have to research how to artifically make those rare resources, you just know how to get them out of the ground from the start.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:46
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Moving manufacturing to worker class is .. a poorly thought out idea. You're basically making the only strategy to stack worker bonuses and go hard into slaves (and maybe robots, but slaves probably better), because they'll get a bonus to getting raw materials AND turning those into alloys to make ships. The other aspects of the game (tech/unity/trade) don't move fast enough for any other strategy to keep up with that. I get that it is annoying that you can't use your grunts for manufacturing, but its like that for a reason.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:49
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Boot and Rally posted:For any reason a player would need to increase energy production right then, and not wait for population to pop. For example to support a fleet because war were declared. Whenever I was in that situation I just sold shitloads of materials on the market to keep my fleet going. There's not a good reason to keep large amounts of materials or consumer goods around, and if you suddenly do need some you can usually just do a buyback.
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Dec 9, 2018 23:51
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turn off the TV posted:Why are you building generators when you don't have pops to work in them? Because unemployment is very bad, so you build ahead of time, for future use. But then I'm the guy who still builds balanced planets. I need everything, so I build everything as resources permit. You specialise when the need arises, or you find something that screams 'specialise', and if I'm honest, it hasn't yet. There's a lot of buildings that, to me, must exist. At least one research centre, one Alloy Factory, one unity building, Clone Banks, Maintenence facility, etc. There is always more work to be done than pops to fill them for a very, very long time. Which then brings up the click click click of reassignment. It probably helps that most buildings take half a year to a year to actually build. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 23:54
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DatonKallandor posted:I like all of those changes, especially the manufactoring as a worker job and the foreman job. The upkeep and output tweaks I could take or leave. I'd play a mod with your changes basically. But please don't start putting more stuff than that in - like the suggestion for more buildings. If you do that make it a separate mod please. I'm not very fond of "oh and also this does <unrelated thing>" for mods in general, although I do feel that in this case they're pretty related. I intend to keep whatever mods I do publish very discrete (in the "each does its own specific thing" way, not the "subtle or secretive" way). ZypherIM posted:Moving manufacturing to worker class is .. a poorly thought out idea. You're basically making the only strategy to stack worker bonuses and go hard into slaves (and maybe robots, but slaves probably better), because they'll get a bonus to getting raw materials AND turning those into alloys to make ships. The other aspects of the game (tech/unity/trade) don't move fast enough for any other strategy to keep up with that. Autonomous Monster posted:That doesn't actually have anything to do with what stratum they belong to, it's all to do with the possible = { } clause. Though I do think they should be in the worker stratum too. I definitely realize that there could be balance problems rising from moving jobs from strata to strata and it's one of the things I intend to actually play some test games to test once I have the mod in basic working order. I'll investigate both changing the strata and just using the job check triggers. quote:I wouldn't, because I think they're supposed to be baristas/sales clerks/hairdressers etc. The service industry, in effect. Yeah, like I said I'm not sold on that change myself. That said, if the "clerk" jobs are service industry then there aren't any bureaucratic jobs aside from the rare ruler tier ones. quote:I'd have the bonus on the building be per-worker throughput and put input/output efficiency on techs, myself. So in other words, tier 1 foundry workers would be 6 metals for 2 alloys each, while tier 2 foundry workers would be 9 metals for 3 alloys each (just as a quick example)? I can see that, although it would make even more problems in the "I just upgraded my foundries and now I'm running a 3 million mineral deficit" department. quote:I am definitely interested in hearing about how easy/difficult you find modding the system and what tricky problems you run into. So far it's been super easy, although I have spent barely any time on it and I'm sure there'll be plenty of tricky bugs to work out. But just modifying the existing jobs, making the new jobs, and modifying the upgraded production buildings was fast and easy. Getting it right I expect to take more time. quote:A problem I'm running into now in the late game is that, because those buildings (and the rare extractors) give so few jobs slots per building slot that those planets start to have jobs crises much earlier than others. Yeah, I noticed this in my Devouring Swarm game and I'm not sure at this point how to fix it without making rare resources too plentiful.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:01
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Bloodly posted:Because unemployment is very bad, so you build ahead of time, for future use. But then I'm the guy who still builds balanced planets. I need everything, so I build everything as resources permit. You specialise when the need arises, or you find something that screams 'specialise', and if I'm honest, it hasn't yet. There's a lot of buildings that, to me, must exist. At least one research centre, one Alloy Factory, one unity building, Clone Banks, Maintenence facility, etc. There is always more work to be done than pops to fill them for a very, very long time. Which then brings up the click click click of reassignment. So you're ok with floating a ton of maintenance cost while being upset about having 1 pop be unemployed for a short period of time. Or you can check a planet every 4-5 years (time it takes for 2 pops) and have a couple empty job slots.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:02
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Im gonna put some alloy forges on my mining world, this is a great idea, now to upgrade the forges! Ah yes thats why this was a bad idea  also there should be a building called garbage miner or reclycler or someting that just adds in extra mining jobs like hydroponics does. it can basically represent a bunch of pops getting employed to look over all your trash to strip any good poo poo out of it which gives you more minerals
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Dec 10, 2018 00:04
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Splicer posted:I'm not picking on you specifically, you're just a good jumping off point: Do you (and anyone else) think your extra pop micro is due to the inherent nature of the system or due to specific implementations in some areas? The robot thing seems very annoying, but the specific issues seem more to do with the setup of robot reproduction than the new planet system as a whole. With non-hive organic pops getting a colony to 5 to fast drop a frontier clinic is definitely helpful, but your pop growth gets boosted by immigration and food rather than by upgrading your shelter so there's way less of a snowball effect. My main complaint is all these miserable people stubbornly growing on low-hab planets, and the seriously over the top push on low pop pops, neither of which are inherent to the new mechanics. I will freely admit my focus is very ME oriented so this may come across as a bigger issue to me than it does for slavers and the like, but it's not unique to them either. Resettling unemployed people and the difficulty of managing this on a per-planet basis in the UI, and/or managing jobs with the +/- system seperated by several submenus that don't fit on screen together all makes this seem far more tedious than it needs to be. It can definitely be narrowed down more to UI issues than anything else IMO, at least once the numbers getting tuned a little so things don't feel so restrictive early on. I honestly don't there is anything wrong with the new planet system on a basic level, it's more the execution of certain specifics/tuning and the UI we use to interact with it being off right now. Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 00:05
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I tried declaring a subjugation war as a crime corp. The casus belli said that a status quo peace will result in anything of theirs I control being spun off into a subjugated nation so long as one of the sectors is a planet. When I peaced out with their capital and another colonised planet, everything was reset to pre-war borders. Have I missed something or is this a bug?
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Dec 10, 2018 00:07
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Zurai posted:I definitely realize that there could be balance problems rising from moving jobs from strata to strata and it's one of the things I intend to actually play some test games to test once I have the mod in basic working order. I'll investigate both changing the strata and just using the job check triggers. What you could do is create a fourth stratum between worker and specialist, or between specialist and ruler. That might be better, actually, so people are still promoting into factories. That would mean dicking with living standards as well, though. Zurai posted:So in other words, tier 1 foundry workers would be 6 metals for 2 alloys each, while tier 2 foundry workers would be 9 metals for 3 alloys each (just as a quick example)? I can see that, although it would make even more problems in the "I just upgraded my foundries and now I'm running a 3 million mineral deficit" department. I probably wouldn't scale that aggressively, but yes.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:09
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Bloodly posted:Because unemployment is very bad, so you build ahead of time, for future use. But then I'm the guy who still builds balanced planets. I need everything, so I build everything as resources permit. You specialise when the need arises, or you find something that screams 'specialise', and if I'm honest, it hasn't yet. There's a lot of buildings that, to me, must exist. At least one research centre, one Alloy Factory, one unity building, Clone Banks, Maintenence facility, etc. There is always more work to be done than pops to fill them for a very, very long time. Which then brings up the click click click of reassignment. My playstyle is similar and my experience is similar FWIW. I think it's mainly UI related stuff and a lack of fast-action buttons (send all unemployed, etc) more than anything in the base system though. Agean90 posted:Im gonna put some alloy forges on my mining world, this is a great idea, now to upgrade the forges! Pretty funny you should say that right now, put this together about 2 minutes ago, cleaning it up now. 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 00:09
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the numbers on event fleets are.... a little questionable, now. anybody manage to hold off the Great Khan? i knuckled under, but usually I'm able to at least put up a fight.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:17
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Zurai posted:Alright, so I'm working on a mod to tweak the economy. Right now, the mod: I really like this idea and from reading dev diaries did expect upgraded buildings to offer foremen/supervisory jobs and increased efficiency beyond just jobs/building slot. Bring it on!
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Dec 10, 2018 00:21
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Bloodly posted:Because unemployment is very bad, so you build ahead of time, for future use. But then I'm the guy who still builds balanced planets. I need everything, so I build everything as resources permit. You specialise when the need arises, or you find something that screams 'specialise', and if I'm honest, it hasn't yet. There's a lot of buildings that, to me, must exist. At least one research centre, one Alloy Factory, one unity building, Clone Banks, Maintenence facility, etc. There is always more work to be done than pops to fill them for a very, very long time. Which then brings up the click click click of reassignment. Have you tried not doing this and just clicking on your planet every once and a while? Having unemployed pops isn't a huge deal, and is in fact very good in certain situations.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:22
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One unemployed pop for ~1-2 years is WAAAAAAAAYYYY less expensive than overbuilding. I completely get the philosophy of wanting to front-load colony development, but the new system does not work well with it. My colonies are ending up more specialized organically because it's more effective to utilize each planets zones on a per colony basis. Approaching it as each colony having X of each class of worker to work with makes a huge difference. I currently have a mineral heavy colony that pretty much is built around churning as much minerals into my stockpile as possible. If I went too heavy on research/higher level production/etc I'd just be pulling workers out of the mines(until I have enough surplus pop to do both). I just sell whatever I don't need and chalk it up as that planets energy output. Also, If your running a heavy surplus stockpile of one resource but hurting for another (IE: alloy) you aren't using the system to it's fullest. Sell stockpiles for credits and buy what you need, when you need it. You can even set up automated monthly sales to streamline the process. Until you can handle supplying all your resource needs in-empire make use of the galactic economy.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:31
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sales to the market need to be pro-rated on a per unit basis rather than bulk prices. Monthly market sales are disadvantageous compared to going for breakpoints of tons of units at once when it should be the other away around. Plus the free money sploit on rare resources if you accumulate enough of a stockpile is a problem.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:35
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Is there any mod for a more sensible 1440p UI? The custom scaling in game isn't great, everything goes fuzzy and meh.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:42
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Retro42 posted:Also, If your running a heavy surplus stockpile of one resource but hurting for another (IE: alloy) you aren't using the system to it's fullest. Sell stockpiles for credits and buy what you need, when you need it. You can even set up automated monthly sales to streamline the process. Until you can handle supplying all your resource needs in-empire make use of the galactic economy. You should definitely use the galactic market even more as the game goes on. I built a Dyson sphere just to pay for the number of motes that I was importing for alloy factories.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:44
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I finally got a pretty decent amount of alloy income for fleet-building. And now I'm somewhat concerned that there aren't enough minerals in the galaxy to fuel this kinda thing. I have a Matter Decompressor and I still need to buy hundreds of minerals from the market every month to keep the machines running. That's with several planets dedicated to mining as well.Guilliman posted:I only go back to colonies to if the icon for overcrowding or jobless pops shows up in the right UI. The thing is that this is nearly constant once your planets start to "cap out", in terms of housing and/or jobs.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:48
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Magil Zeal posted:The thing is that this is nearly constant once your planets start to "cap out", in terms of housing and/or jobs. The game is really missing a 'Please ignore this planet and remove it from the outliner' tickbox.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:50
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I think the whole alloy economy needs some rebalancing. Costs for ships seem to have been transferred across 1:1 M:A, so a corvette that might have been 4 or 5 months of early game mineral income is instead 11 or 12 months of early game alloy income. It's all sideways.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:51
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it does sorta, you can choose not to display sectors on AI. and an AI with no resources cant actually do anything.quote:I think the whole alloy economy needs some rebalancing. Costs for ships seem to have been transferred across 1:1 M:A, so a corvette that might have been 4 or 5 months of early game mineral income is instead 11 or 12 months of early game alloy income. It's all sideways.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:51
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Theswarms posted:I tried declaring a subjugation war as a crime corp. The casus belli said that a status quo peace will result in anything of theirs I control being spun off into a subjugated nation so long as one of the sectors is a planet. When I peaced out with their capital and another colonised planet, everything was reset to pre-war borders. I've noticed that too, it's an all or nothing affair at the moment. It's a shame too because a neighboring empire got split up into 3 separate chunks by a horde and I wanted to use status quo to turn them into 3 separate subsidiaries to fix the border gore but to no avail. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the numbers on event fleets are.... a little questionable, now. anybody manage to hold off the Great Khan? i knuckled under, but usually I'm able to at least put up a fight. Hah no, the horde started off right on my border and I took one look at those numbers and surrendered instantly. I was the strongest conventional empire in the galaxy at the time and had been keeping up on fleet-building but all my navy wouldn't have done dick to even one of his dozen or so doomstacks.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:51
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Is there any reason why I should take over manual creation of trade routes between hubs instead of letting the AI do it manually? I'm not really seeing a difference, especially since I can't seem to get them to do routes that don't go through high piracy systems.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:52
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No. I mostly use the trade view to gauge piracy.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:53
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the numbers on event fleets are.... a little questionable, now. anybody manage to hold off the Great Khan? i knuckled under, but usually I'm able to at least put up a fight. In both my games so far the Great Khan has spawned multiple 10K plus fleets while most of the galaxy is still fiddling around with between 4-7k.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:54
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the numbers on event fleets are.... a little questionable, now. anybody manage to hold off the Great Khan? i knuckled under, but usually I'm able to at least put up a fight.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:54
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:No. I mostly use the trade view to gauge piracy. Yeah, that's what I'm doing too. Side note: I don't like being forced to add weapon slots to stations to adequately deter piracy, and I don't like feeling like I have to build stations in places I would never build them before.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:55
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Mayor Dave posted:Is there any reason why I should take over manual creation of trade routes between hubs instead of letting the AI do it manually? I'm not really seeing a difference, especially since I can't seem to get them to do routes that don't go through high piracy systems. Sometimes the AI routes them horribly, like the time it decided to send a trade route through a marauder empire's space. That said, you can ban individual systems from the pathfinding algorithm and it works for trade routes too.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:56
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Nessus posted:I suspect the alloy costs are what's in back of this, since the event fleets come out of the magic jar rather than being built by the AI. As an experiment I bumped the mid/end game events back ~75 cycles to see if that helps this game. As a whole the AI seems to just build slower than before in the new system.
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Dec 10, 2018 00:57
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I've assembled a weird capital fleet of derelicts, strangers and acquisitions, and it's pretty great. Didn't pay a single alloy for any of these.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:00
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How does Gladius's Ultimate AI compared to the legacy game? What other mods do you like? I'm using the following: - Auto Survey at AI Start (Seriously it's loving idiotic that this isn't a core feature) - Beautiful Universe - Better Faction Info - Diverse Rooms - EG* - Planet View + 24 Building Slots - Job Descriptions - Stronger Orbital Bombardment - UI Overhaul 1080p Plus
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Dec 10, 2018 01:03
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Rolled a Psionics specialist less than six years into this game. Guess I know which path I'm taking! 
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Dec 10, 2018 01:07
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I've found this mod to be a nice little UI-cleaner-upper: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1585002798
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Dec 10, 2018 01:09
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How does Gladius's Ultimate AI compared to the legacy game? When I use mods (usually after getting the achievements), Gulli's Planet Modifiers is a must. Auto Survey is good, I play humans a lot so I run with the Human Diversity mod, an assortment of namelists, Researcher Trait 'Fix', and the UI Overhaul. I used to play with a few others (Gigastructural Engineering for example), but most of them are either no longer maintained or don't make a lot of sense in 2.2.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:10
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Cynic Jester posted:
There is a Margaret Thatcher joke somewhere in the game telling you that you have insufficient society to open this mine
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Dec 10, 2018 01:10
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Gladius AI is possibly too stronk on admiral. A military nation had a 4k fleet by 2245, 33 vettes and 12 destroyers (iirc), and thats with fighting several wars. Miiiight have been able to take them but missed my shot for a favorable engage. Also anyone noticed that when the AI emergency retreats its combat losses neither show up in the combat summary nor count for warscore? I think thats whats going on anyway.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:17
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Gladius AI is possibly too stronk on admiral. A military nation had a 4k fleet by 2245, 33 vettes and 12 destroyers (iirc), and thats with fighting several wars. Miiiight have been able to take them but missed my shot for a favorable engage.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:20
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Am I supposed to be able to move whole planets worth of pops as an egalitarian with forced relocation policy very much off?
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Dec 10, 2018 01:21
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Baronjutter posted:Am I supposed to be able to move whole planets worth of pops as an egalitarian with forced relocation policy very much off? I don't think so but apparently you can do it. I've had forced migration policy'd off since the first few months and yet I've been moving pops around all game as of the War in Heaven. And it's a good thing too. I've started taking FE worlds and, uh, most of their buildings don't actually produce any jobs. So their worlds are full of unemployment. Being able to transfer their pops to my ecumenopoli is clutch.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:28
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