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ROAB's basically dead, Freegardeners exist almost only because Masonry literally had to go and revive it and give them some juice, IOOF's abandoned most of my country, the Druid benevolent orders are nearly extinct. We've all lost ground to the rise of the welfare state. In a sense, we were too successful - we wanted everyone to have a square deal in life and not be abandoned when times got rough, we worked for it, and society took it up, so one of our core reasons for existence died away. We kept trucking though because unlike most of the benevolent societies that were basically just welfare programs, we had our social and ritual aspects, and ever since we've been coasting on people chasing camraderie- but people don't look to fraternal societies for that anymore. We're quaint and old fashioned. It's why the Strict Observance movement exists, to try and refocus on what makes Masonry Masonry through ritual and reemphasize that. I also recall a conversation I had with a venerable Templar brother from grand priory. His opinion, having observed Masonry as a member for some sixty years, is that perhaps 90% of people join (or more importantly, stay) for the social experience, 5% join for enlightenment (of whom maybe a tenth actually pursue it seriously and contribute to esoteric masonry), and 5% join for business ties and walk away when they get disappointed. The essential problem we face is that what we deliver socially is not perceived as desirable, and so naturally our proportion of social joiners is shrinking - in and of itself, not a bad thing, but those social members (or 'good ol' Norms' as I recall one article on the issue from the 90s calling them) have been the lifeblood sustaining the craft for decades and they're all dying. Couple that with a generalized tendency away from being 'joiners' as a society (also not inherently bad), charitable endeavours largely running through the Lions club and similar groups that don't have our baggage, and the growing trend of atheism and you get a natural progression away from membership rates increasing. My belief is that it'll stall out and Masonry will begin to reach a sustainable plateau over the next fifteen years. As we become less saturated and people lose their memories of us being literally everywhere, we'll regain some mystique that'll help draw people in - and the occult renaissance that the internet has enabled will also bring new members, changing the ratio of social:esoteric masons significantly. The increasing economic and social collapse we're going to inevitably face will also prompt new growth later in the century. It is the paradox of our craft: When times are bad, we will be stronger, because that is when people need to lean on each other most and we erect ourselves as strong pillars to support those who need a helping hand - but when times are good, and have always been good within memory, we will be weak, because we aren't needed.
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Sep 28, 2018 04:53
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Loomer posted:because we aren't needed. That's very sad. I've been watching Netflix's "Inside the Masons" show and it's caused me to think that we need much more of a sense of brotherhood in our culture. American culture, I mean.
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Sep 28, 2018 07:32
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Sub Rosa posted:I used to be in IOOF. Maybe I still am if I cough up ~15 years of dues. My impression is basically they are far worse off than Masonry. I was actually told there was an Oddfellows lodge active in Greensboro, but no one could ever actually tell me where or when they met. Considering the Soverign Grand Lodge for North America is in Winston-Salem I figure that's a really bad sign. I've driven by the IOOF lodge in Greensboro (it's by the baseball stadium, if I recall) and have driven by the Grand Lodge in Winston, and I've sent dozens of emails out but could never get a single response on joining the IOOF. Oh well!
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Sep 28, 2018 14:12
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There used to be an IOOF lodge in my city, but it seems to have gone under for unknown reasons. No real info in the papers or historical records I could find, but their cornerstone is still there. Developer is interested in converting it to some kinda small town skyscraper. The nearest one I believe is still active is one state over.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:42
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So I was recently made FC and the more I learn the more I feel like I made the right choice in seeking to join. Fascinating, to say the least. And thanks to everyone who has posted here, reading the backlog of this thread has been really informative.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:15
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Getting installed as WM for the second year in a row tonight. I'm going to joke that I promise to do a better job than the junior past.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:21
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Are Transmen Men as far as the requirements for becoming a Mason are concerned?
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Nov 19, 2018 21:09
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OscarDiggs posted:Are Transmen Men as far as the requirements for becoming a Mason are concerned? Depends on jurisdiction. UGLE put out a statement earlier this year saying that yes, they are, but it hasn't really been fought out to my knowledge because no one wants to tussle with UGLE
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Nov 19, 2018 21:16
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Elected WM for the first time. Installation in a couple weeks and a 3rd degree next week. I swear Masons in this jurisdiction just loving hate themselves come holiday season
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Nov 19, 2018 22:32
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I am travelling to Portland, OR in January. Any MM from that area here, I would like to attend lodge as it is a business trip so plenty of time to visit. Basically, do I need to pack my stuff and tux? As a developer I have no formal clothing but my tux...
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Nov 21, 2018 07:00
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Being installed as WM tonight. We are financially probably the most secure lodge in our state but members wise we have shrank enough that it's been a struggle to pull in enough people to pull off degrees or this installation. I'm hoping to make meetings more interesting/educational this year. It's been a huge struggle for us and even myself find it hard to recommend the craft to new people when what they'll do is waste hours of their time for nothing in a boring meeting. Any recommendations for masonic educational material?
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Dec 8, 2018 00:11
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Paramemetic posted:the recent advertising approach and the semi-active recruiting thing That's really weird, I thought y'all's whole schtick was was "you have to ask." Since they were mentioned, what's up with the Odddfellows and Elks? Guys that couldn't get into the Masons went and started their own club
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Dec 8, 2018 12:48
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Found these in the town of Älmhult, Sweden. Are they legit Mason groups? 
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Dec 9, 2018 18:58
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"Svenska Frimurare Orden" (The Swedish Masonic Order) is a legit masonic grand lodge recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England. "Sirius Orden" appears to be a Swedish fraternal order with no connections to freemasonry. It's normal in small-town Scandinavia for several fraternal orders to share the same building, since they need more or less the same kind of facilities (a big hall and a bar).
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Dec 10, 2018 09:31
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SimonChris posted:"Svenska Frimurare Orden" (The Swedish Masonic Order) is a legit masonic grand lodge recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England. "Sirius Orden" appears to be a Swedish fraternal order with no connections to freemasonry. It's normal in small-town Scandinavia for several fraternal orders to share the same building, since they need more or less the same kind of facilities (a big hall and a bar). Our building is way to large for us, dwindling numbers and so on, and we rent to whoever wants to, we seen the birth of several groups who call themselves Masons and are not recognized but we enjoy their rent money keeping our beautiful temple up and running. https://goo.gl/maps/zR8pUeenmyN2
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Dec 10, 2018 11:34
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Checking in on a sleeping thread to say I'm finally scheduled to have my MM degree next Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to it. I've not been in for a full year yet and already I have seen such positivity and generosity from the men at my lodge that I'm very eager to become more involved myself.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:07
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BONESAWWWWWW posted:Checking in on a sleeping thread to say I'm finally scheduled to have my MM degree next Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to it. I've not been in for a full year yet and already I have seen such positivity and generosity from the men at my lodge that I'm very eager to become more involved myself. Congrats! Whereabouts are you located? (General country/region/whatever is fine, not trying to doxx anyone) Like I'm sure people told you before your EA degree, just relax and take it all in. There's a lot going on there.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:19
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Any of you other guys doing the Hauts Grade Academy for AASR NMJ?
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Jan 23, 2019 18:09
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Huh, that (NMJ talk) reminds me, I'll be moving to the Philadelphia area in about a month (technically Downingtown, about an hour west). Anyone have recommendations for lodges, or any goons in the area?
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Jan 23, 2019 18:22
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COOL CORN posted:Congrats! Whereabouts are you located? (General country/region/whatever is fine, not trying to doxx anyone) I'm based out of Michigan. More specifically, the fringes of Detroit. My EA went great but of course I had all these preconceived notions about what I thought would happen, plus I was very nervous. Once I saw and understood, my FC was much better. I'm looking forward to the MM. It's a welcoming feeling, knowing that this group of people is practicing and rehearsing to get things right for my own experience.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:24
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BONESAWWWWWW posted:to get things right Whoa, let's not be too hasty here.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:26
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Emron posted:Any of you other guys doing the Hauts Grade Academy for AASR NMJ? I am. Have one more paper for level 2 to go, working on figuring out my topic for level 3.
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Jan 25, 2019 22:15
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lone77wulf posted:I am. Have one more paper for level 2 to go, working on figuring out my topic for level 3. I just started in on level 2. The whole thing is a great idea, but needs some more polish on implementation, in my opinion.
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Jan 25, 2019 22:30
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Emron posted:I just started in on level 2. The whole thing is a great idea, but needs some more polish on implementation, in my opinion. Level two seems to vary depending on your advisor. I’ve had some good conversations over mail, which aren’t part of the program, but are educational. Part 1 seemed like a formality, and didn’t dig at all. I did SJ Master Craftsman 1 before they moved a bunch around and still am in the process of the Symbolic Lodge and second Scottish Rite part. Those are good for learning what’s in Morals and Dogma and Esoterika, but don’t make me dig into the meaning in the same way as HGA will in part 3. Then to be inane, I have the Companion Adept of the Temple on my shelf as the next thing after all those. If you can, might as well take all of them. Only the HGA has time limits.
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Jan 26, 2019 03:56
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Paramemetic posted:Freemasonry is the world's oldest esoteric fraternity, varyingly referred to as a secret society, fraternal order, conspiratical organization, etc. While commonly called a secret society, Masons tend to prefer calling ourselves a "society with secrets." Details of our rites and rituals are kept secret for a variety of reasons which I will discuss, none of which are nefarious but rather traditional. Our membership is not commonly secretive, except in countries and times when it is necessary to be so (whereas Masons in America commonly wear rings or rock emblems on their cars, Masons in China must by necessity be much less overt). Our history is long, with realistic estimates looking at Freemasonry developing from actual guilds and lodges of masons working in the middle ages in the present day UK. Popular (likely mythical) origins tell of integration of the Knights Templar, and it is certainly evident that masonry existed in a primitive form as early as the building of many great cathedrals in the UK, as many have symbols that modern day Masons would recognize instantly. We are a storied and long-lived fraternity, dedicated to promoting the most noble ideals of Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth, and we are open to men of all races and creeds should they meet some few (occasionally contested) mandatory requirements. How do I know if there is a fake Masonic Lodge or not
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Jan 28, 2019 15:31
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) from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but they boil down to this:
'd about it is as long as its own existence. From early Catholic proclamations that we are secularists aiming to destroy Christendom (the Pope was upset that some Masons were involved in a variety of reformation movements and in the overall dismantling of the Holy Roman Empire) to Nazi allegations that we stood in opposition to Nazism (this was half-true, Masonic ideals are incompatible with Nazism, but discussion of politics is not permitted in Masonic) to the
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Ask in here I guess? There are fake lodges out there but they fall under two categories. Confusingly, both are called "clandestine" in Mason-speak. Some people set up their own fake lodges to make money on our name. These are usually small and strange, and will have extremely ridiculous long names. This is fairly common in the Southern US. The other kind of lodge is one that has been deemed irregular for whatever reason. For example, France is full of lodges that are irregular and so "fake" to the main body of Masonry. Basically if you want someone to check out a Lodge in here I'm sure someone would be happy to do. From within the organization it's a pretty straightforward affair that we can accomplish with a range of difficulty from "looking at the website" to "asking our secretary to send a letter." Not a big deal.
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Jan 28, 2019 15:58
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I can't speak for every grand lodge in every country, but you can probably just type "Grand Lodge of ________" for wherever you are and call the phone number that comes up and ask.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:09
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Hit another delay but finally got my MM last night. My lodge is pretty chill, but that degree was for real. Glad to finally be a full member though.
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Feb 21, 2019 03:28
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Got my MM yesterday and that sure was a ritual, I should say. And now I have a lot to read.
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Mar 26, 2019 11:33
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Paramemetic posted:The other kind of lodge is one that has been deemed irregular for whatever reason. For example, France is full of lodges that are irregular and so "fake" to the main body of Masonry. What are the reasons lodges become irregular? I was told that if I visited lodges in foreign countries I should make sure they are not irregular, but how do they become so? Can they reconcile somehow?
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Mar 26, 2019 23:15
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Ataxerxes posted:What are the reasons lodges become irregular? I was told that if I visited lodges in foreign countries I should make sure they are not irregular, but how do they become so? Can they reconcile somehow? A good example is lodges that start raising women.
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Mar 26, 2019 23:55
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Essentially if they were created without a real charter or if they violate the charter by falling out of regularity or if they get in a spat with another grand lodge that declares them irregular by edict. So yeah, lodges that started changing rituals or started changing rules so that they fell out of accord or so on. In the US most irregular lodges are fraudulent, for example. Just a guy setting up a copycat operation without a charter to grift. You see this a lot in the South. In Europe you have co-masonry which liberalizes a bit (for example the making women masons thing) which is always clandestine. Then you have the political spats between a revolving door of French lodges that fall in and out of regularity with UGLE. There are also lodges that will start adding extra rules that violate the spirit of masonry (by endorsing political views, for example, or specific religions). Generally if you're traveling it's best to check with your own secretary before visiting a lodge. When in doubt and that's not possible you can ask to see the charter which should say what grand lodge is over that lodge. Grand lodges also need historic charters. In the US, for example, the difference between the F&AM and AF&AM grand lodges is about whether they got their charters from the Antient Grand Lodge of England or the Grand Lodge of Scotland. I don't think any got theirs from the Grand Lodge of Ireland. As a total aside, Grand Lodge of Ireland's degree work is wild.
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Mar 27, 2019 00:07
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Some US jurisdictions deem Prince Hall to be irregular, as well. The irregularity thing is where you truly enter the world of Masonic controversy.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:42
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Emron posted:Some US jurisdictions deem Prince Hall to be irregular, as well. The irregularity thing is where you truly enter the world of Masonic controversy. Ah, the Prince Hall are the Africa-American lodges that were founded when many of the US lodges were white-only, if I understood correctly? I can see why that would be one heck of an issue today. Finland had a period of time (1920's-1950's) when the Grand Lodge of Sweden didn't recognize the Finnish lodges, but that is long past. Is there an interest in knowing how the Finnish and Swedish lodges differ? I could post about that.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:12
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Ataxerxes posted:Ah, the Prince Hall are the Africa-American lodges that were founded when many of the US lodges were white-only, if I understood correctly? I can see why that would be one heck of an issue today. Finland had a period of time (1920's-1950's) when the Grand Lodge of Sweden didn't recognize the Finnish lodges, but that is long past. The Prince Hall thing is specifically legitimate lodges chartered by the Antient Grand Lodge of England that share jurisdiction with regional grand lodges. The reason it's controversial is that grand lodges are supposed to be sovereign over territories, but Prince Hall lodges weren't chartered under the grand lodges of those areas and for a long time racism kept them separate. Now most states have mutual recognition with their Prince Hall counterparts but some southern states do not while the other states recognize both GLs. It gets a bit dicey. I'd be interested to hear about whatever story there is to tell. My understanding is Sweden is explicitly Christian and not just monotheistic, is that true? Some other bits about the monarchy get involved there too, yeah?
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Mar 28, 2019 00:59
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Paramemetic posted:I'd be interested to hear about whatever story there is to tell. My understanding is Sweden is explicitly Christian and not just monotheistic, is that true? Some other bits about the monarchy get involved there too, yeah? Yeah, Sweden has a 10-degree system that, to my understanding (and a Swedish brother is more than welcome to correct me if I'm mistaken) is explicitly Christian from the start. Their 10 degrees cover everything from Blue Lodge up to the highest levels of the attendant degrees. There is an agreement that a Finnish mason with certain degrees can attend Swedish lodge meeting up to the n:th degree, depending on stuff I'm not really familiar with. Also, in Sweden the monarch was, for a long time, traditionally the Grand Master, but I think this tradition broke during the 60's or 70's. A brother described the differences between the Swedish and Finnish systems as two different people putting the same book together, but with the various pieces in different order. Historically, the first lodge in Finland was found in Stockholm, Sweden, in 1756 and it moved to Helsinki, Finland in 1763. At the time the sea fortress of Sveaborg was being built and Helsinki as a city (then only a small town) existed to serve the needs of the fortress. Much of the membership of this lodge were officers of the Swedish army and navy, as well as people related to the fortress construction. Most of what is nowadays the Republic of Finland was a part of the Swedish Kingdom up to until 1809, when Sweden lost a war against Russia and the Finnish territory was given to Russia as the grand-duchy of Finland. As a part of the aftermath of this war the lodges in Finland ceased officially operating in 1813 and the Tsar of Russia forbid any secret societies (especially masons) in 1822. Up to until Finnish independency (1918) it was illegal for a subject of the Russian Empire to be a mason and the Finnish masons that existed mostly got their degrees in other countries (Sweden, Britain, the US etc), as many of them were mariners, diplomats or other people who traveled a lot. When Finland became independent a Swedish-speaking lodge under the Grand Lodge of Sweden was established here. Finnish-speaking masons tried to form an agreement with them that would permit a Finnish-speaking lodge to operate under the rule of the Grand Lodge of Sweden, but for reasons unknown to me no such agreement was ever made. Finnish masons and people interested in masonry instead approached the Grand Lodge of New York and people from there helped form the first Finnish-speaking lodged in 1922, with the Grand Lodge of Finland being formed around 1923. Due to this split history in Finland there are lodges that are under the rule of either the Swedish or Finnish Grand Lodges. There was some sort of quarrel between the Grand Lodges that was resolved somewhere around 1950's, before that the Grand Lodge of Sweden didn't recognise the Grand Lodge of Finland. Since the 1950's though things have been friendly. There is also an entirely English-speaking lodge in Helsinki under the rule of the Grand Lodge of Finland, so if a brother visits here they can attend a meeting in a language they can understand easier.
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Mar 29, 2019 09:43
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Paramemetic posted:Now most states have mutual recognition with their Prince Hall counterparts but some southern states do not while the other states recognize both GLs.
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Apr 2, 2019 06:24
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The whole thing is loving dumb and an artifact of racist social structures. Just my two cents.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:39
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Emron posted:The whole thing is loving dumb and an artifact of racist social structures. Just my two cents. Agreed but the solution is integrating grand lodges which would require GLs or PHGLs to give up their sovereignty which is kind of an ask.
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Apr 3, 2019 00:11
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A couple of years ago, when I was master of my lodge, a visiting mason from TN presented me with a pin from the GL of TN, which said " Be The Example." The next day, I mailed it back to the GL of TN, explaining that I would be happy to sport one of their pins once they recognized PHA. Much of the south still has a long way to go.
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Apr 3, 2019 01:58
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