|
I'm already bored of people talking poo poo about Chibnall's showrunning, so I'm gonna say something I would've liked them to go harder on this episode. There was a trend in the episode of tiny little threads from other episodes coming back to be part of the finale, which would've actually been great if they went all the way with it. We had Tim Shaw back, the Doctor called on some tricks from the Ghost Monument, and the planets were located through the telepathic circuits from Demons of the Punjab, but surely they could've done a little more, just as one-liners that came back. It would've been hard for some, but not all of them... -Make some mention of Krasko's 'crime by butterfly effect' strategy with Tim Shaw's plan. It'd be a bit weird, but he took whole planets out of orbit, that's bound to have hosed with some poo poo. -Revive a plan from Arachnids in the UK, maybe the vibrational bait. It'd be a reach, but I'm okay with a reach if the rest works. -I got no idea on the Tsuranga Conundrum or the Witchfinders, but I feel like the pieces are there somewhere. -It's not TARDIS Technobabble that teleports the planets back in place: it's Kerblam tech. I actually thought they were going through with that one. -With both the Solitract and the Ux being really old stories that the Doctor's really into, there's surely a connection there somewhere, I'm just not sure where. As it stands, it was an okay episode, not great, but would've been elevated considerably with just having a fun centerpiece Thing to it, and having some fun linking in disparate parts of every other episode in the season could've been that. As it is, it's an 'eh' episode that had the room to be more, but not really the pieces to make more out of. I do want to point out a little thing I noticed and appreciated, though: in The Woman Who Fell To Earth, he's credited as Tim Shaw. This time, he's credited as Tzen Sha. I like that in a metatextual sort of elevation thing; he's no longer an absolute joke, so the credits aren't making fun of him anymore. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Dec 10, 2018 |
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 12:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:28 |
|
|
BSam posted:Amazing. I mean, realistically Chris Chibnall could start planning and writing for the 2020 season tomorrow and I'd expect the episodes written by him would be exactly as mediocre as if he'd knocked them together the night before filming.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 12:38
|
|
|
sinepost posted:I mean, realistically Chris Chibnall could start planning and writing for the 2020 season tomorrow and I'd expect the episodes written by him would be exactly as mediocre as if he'd knocked them together the night before filming. This is true. So much was left on the table this series, so many interesting ideas just tossed by the wayside, usually in favour of exposition and/or explaining what's happening as it happens. I get trying to go for a less frenetic pace and fewer universe ending threats after RTD and Moffat, but this wasn't the way to do it. This whole series was the equivalent of wallpaper paste, and even the good episodes were, to a certain extent, only relatively so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 12:54
|
|
|
This really felt like the weakest first season out of all the new Doctor's and it really didn't help it's only 10 episodes, as opposed to the 'usual' 12-13. (And this includes Blowjob Tile in Season 2) I really really liked a few of the episodes (1, 9 and 10 are standouts for me), but a lot of them felt... pandering in a way. Also felt like the Doctor is a little less 'switched on' about things. Not a lot of speeches or clever solutions that you normally see. Less gravitas? Don't get me wrong I adore Jodie as the Doctor, and think Broadchurch is a brilliant bit of tellie, but I feel like they need to get their act together a bit otherwise she's going to be super underutilised like 10 was. Hopefully the next season settles things down a bit. Don't know which muppet decided 2020, but they deserve an uppercut. Graham continues to be outright Best 13 Companion thus far, glad he got a resolution to the Grace saga and he got his Granddad moment. Other 2 not bringing much to the table, other than being talking heads to play off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 13:03
|
|
|
Like the first episode had me super super pumped for potential steampunk/maker/welder/Mrs Fix-it/mad-scientest goggles wearing Doctor, but then 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 13:07
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Like the first episode had me super super pumped for potential steampunk/maker/welder/Mrs Fix-it/mad-scientest goggles wearing Doctor, but then Yeah that would've been great. I like 'nice' Doctors (well, 5 not so much) but that personality feature alone does not a character make. It's definitely a writing flaw rather than a problem with Jodie, though
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 13:19
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:It's definitely a writing flaw rather than a problem with Jodie, though This was always my problem with 10. Tennant was great, just lovely lovely writing for like half his eps. I hope Jodie doesn't suffer the same fate
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I do want to point out a little thing I noticed and appreciated, though: in The Woman Who Fell To Earth, he's credited as Tim Shaw. This time, he's credited as Tzen Sha. I like that in a metatextual sort of elevation thing; he's no longer an absolute joke, so the credits aren't making fun of him anymore. I didn't notice that and I actually find it a little disappointing. I loved how the name undercut his tryhard "I'm a badass" persona he kept trying to project while cheating his rear end off to be in any way effective as a threat. He effectively gains the power of a God and his imagination is so limited he uses it to bitch and moan and plot revenge on the lady who completely outclassed him 3400 years earlier, only to get taken down and imprisoned by a retired bus driver/cancer survivor and a guy suffering from dyspraxia. I'll always refer to him as Tim Shaw, because you can guarantee the name just utterly rankles him: it's a constant reminder that as overpowered as the tech he uses is, as fortuitous as the powers he gains access to are, he's still a fraud who desperately wants to be cool and never will be.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 13:35
|
|
|
Davison era people always said that writing for three companions was hard. You have to find things for everyone to do on top of creating characters native to the time/place of the story. And every episode the Doctor says "You lot, go find out xyz." Either have less characters, or seperate them and put them in actual peril.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 14:33
|
|
|
Murder Ryan and Yaz offscreen, and just have the Doctor+Graham for all of next season.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 14:42
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Murder Ryan and Yaz offscreen, and just have the Doctor+Graham for all of next season. I want Tosin Cole to star in this thing I'm writing, so sure, let's. I just realised Yaz is Nyssa in the Five comparisons.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 14:49
|
|
|
The Adventures of Granddad and Grandma "Hang on a minute Doc, I'm a might peckish" *Pulls out pocket sandwich* "Good idea Graham, I could use a break myself" *Pulls out pocket jellybabies* *The Doctor winks knowingly at the camera* Writes itself really
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 14:51
|
|
|
The Invisible Enemy, except it's about space gout 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 14:54
|
|
|
Reveal Graham to be a Timelord but change nothing else about him. "Guess I'm a Timelord eh? Well that's something, best get back to work, eh Doc?" Overall disappointing season. Beautifully shot and wonderfully cast. But nothing feels very memorable and the reduced episode count is a real bummer. What should be a rebirth for the show just feels like more of the same, just with any sense of urgency or majesty stripped away.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
A Fancy Hat posted:Reveal Graham to be a Timelord but change nothing else about him. Changed as it makes the most sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 15:37
|
|
|
I actually really liked the season overall, despite its flaws. It is a bummer that it has a weak ending, a reduced episode count, and that there will already be a gap year, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 15:57
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:The Adventures of Granddad and Grandma Jelly babies are gross.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 16:04
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:Jelly babies are gross. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:Jelly babies are gross.  A simple "No, thank you" would have sufficed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:I want Tosin Cole to star in this thing I'm writing, so sure, let's. Are you writing a tv version of Rivers of London?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Are you writing a tv version of Rivers of London? God, I wish. I'd prefer Alfred Enoch as Peter (Peter being mixed race).
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:Davison era people always said that writing for three companions was hard. You have to find things for everyone to do on top of creating characters native to the time/place of the story. And every episode the Doctor says "You lot, go find out xyz." I said earlier in the season that it is a bit too much to introduce a new Doctor, three new companions, and try to tell a new story every week while developing those characters. Something is bound to suffer. I think they did a good job, all things considered, but the short episode count and lack of an overarching story was really noticeable towards the end. But hey, Graham got a fantastic story arc and Yaz had her moments. Ryan was weird because he had a chance to meet Grace last week and didn't, and he seemed indifferent about confronting Tim Shaw, but at least he called Graham "granddad" and said "I love you." 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 17:10
|
|
|
sinepost posted:I mean, realistically Chris Chibnall could start planning and writing for the 2020 season tomorrow and I'd expect the episodes written by him would be exactly as mediocre as if he'd knocked them together the night before filming. To be fair, "Midnight" was literally knocked up together the night before filming while RTD was high on five different types of cough medicine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Something interesting by comparison is in finally got around to watching my first Old Who serial, the Unearthly Child, and it is also a three companion story (Susan, Ian and Barbara), but they all had poo poo to do because the situation was desperate enough they all had to chip in. It took the combined might of all three of them to attempt to cut their bonds after the Doctor finally chipped in and suggested using the bone fragments instead of the soft rocks (although they had to be bailed out by the old woman in the end, they were all trying) and for the stretcher for the son of the FireMaker that took all of them and the arranged bride working together to assemble the stretcher and tend the wounds. None of the companions felt all that useless because if they weren't all there they wouldn't have had enough coats for a start. Also I kind of liked that rather than being the all knowing caretaker of later doctors, Hartnell just spent the whole thing being a belligerent arse for the first few episodes. Also it was a historical but not about The Most Important Guy - it wasn't the guy who discovered fire like it would have been in new Who, it was his son trying to live up to the expectations. It's also interesting that there is a when for when the chameleon circuit broke - it burned out while they were camped in the junkyard so Susan could go to a normal human school and socialise. I also enjoyed that Hartnell is more scientific than the other incarnations, he checks the readings before going outside to make sure it's safe then sticks around the Tardis collecting samples to study.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
Lampsacus posted:There is this diminishing of episodes and episode length in fandom BBC shows. Sherlock, etc. Once a show reaches critical hype, its more important they put out stuff that is:
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 19:18
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Also felt like the Doctor is a little less 'switched on' about things. Not a lot of speeches or clever solutions that you normally see. Less gravitas? I really want to see thirteen get pissed off, sorrowful, anxious, scared, contemplative, and everything else. The writing hasn't allowed much in the way other than bright, ecstatic optimism, with the occasional funny face. Give me more moments where she confronts a companion, like she did with Graham, and gets super-serious. A problem that happens with nearly every doctor of the revival is that they start off full of life and character, with a whole range of different emotions and personality traits, and then eventually they get 'typecast' into a narrower role. With Jodie Whittaker it feels like the role has already been narrowed to just this, and it's a real shame not to see more.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
It's tough to compare things to An Unearthly Child, though, because it's really so good (in my opinion). It's weird that we identify with Susan, Barbara and Ian and that the Doctor spends the first episode being the primary antagonist and the second episode being a kind of secondary antagonist, but it works, and we do feel like he's starting to redeem himself by the end of the serial, something that will continue on through the next two. It's also back when they actually gave Carole Ann Ford something to do: to be a weird, alien person who is actually a bit terrifying but wants some pet humans, instead of basically being just like an earth teen who was good at science. It takes some really basic "Ugga bugga, me live in cave!" cave man tropes and manages, somehow, to make the whole thing feel terrifying and desperate, like their tiny, fragile society could crumble at any time, with all of the factions in their relatively small group working against each other. It neatly arranges everything for a continuing story throughout the serialization while also allowing for monsters of the week: the Doctor has kidnapped them, and he doesn't know how to work his time machine, so they are stuck building a fragile alliance together, and learning to understand one another, as various historical and sci fi dangers threaten their very lives. "The Doctor is kind of a dick" doesn't work forever, though, as the Sixth Doctor's first season and the Twelfth Doctor's second season indicate. Part of the problem with having an immortal character is that if they don't learn from their mistakes, moral and otherwise, we start not to like them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 20:00
|
|
|
I imagine in part they didn't want to start filming until after the season ended in case it was a massive failure Not that that's a good management thing either
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 20:00
|
|
|
TinTower posted:To be fair, "Midnight" was literally knocked up together the night before filming while RTD was high on five different types of cough medicine. Moffat wrote Day Of The Doctor by the seat of his pants as well, iirc
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 20:06
|
|
|
Midnight was a goddamn masterpiece on the sound alone
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 20:09
|
|
|
I liked this episode’s direction (those colours  ), just not so much the plot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
Just watched part 2 of The Daleks - I like that the old Daleks are more cunning, less "BLOW EVERYTHING UP IMMEDIATELY" and more manipulating people for their own gain. I especially like that their rays aren't always instant kills, they can partially paralyse as well for tactical use.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
BioEnchanted posted:Just watched part 2 of The Daleks - I like that the old Daleks are more cunning, less "BLOW EVERYTHING UP IMMEDIATELY" and more manipulating people for their own gain. I especially like that their rays aren't always instant kills, they can partially paralyse as well for tactical use. This is roughly how the Daleks are until Davros comes back They're actually an alien race that think and plan (and have dumb plans) up to Genesis of the Daleks. Genesis is their last hurrah before they stop being a coherent thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 22:20
|
|
|
The beginning of the Daleks is funny because the Doctor wants to walk around the post-apocalypse wasteland and outright lies to the people he kidnapped so he can go do dumb experiments. It gets very "Terry Nation is telling another World War II story with aliens" in the middle, but it's still pretty great. The beginning of Hartnell's run is a lot of fun to watch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 22:24
|
|
|
I mean this in all seriousness, one of my favorite Doctor Who scenes ever is the one in An Unearthy Child where a caveman (a bad guy, at that) struggles to articulate to another one the process of thinking/imagination/deduction. It's actually kinda stunning. From memory it's something like,"I can see it with my eyes, as I see when I sleep" and the other one clearly can't quite grasp what he is getting at but wants to.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
I liked the writing for the cavepeople in general, especially one moment that in any other story wouldn't be too impressive, but in this context, given the total lack of tools that the main characters have in their mad scramble to the Tardis, it works: The first ever "I am a god" moment "They will wear the night as a blanket! It will be impossible to find them!" "With fire... Night becomes DAY!" I actually had a minor "Holy poo poo" kind of feeling, more than the Russel T Davies Daleks flying up stairs. I think it's because you get a good few hours in these old stories to allow them to breathe, and so you get stronger characterisation due to having more time for irrelevant conversations. It's not often an angry mob with torches actually had gravitas and actual threat to them. It's also a great moment for the character because until then the tribe was badly fragmenting - this is him finally rising to the challenge of being a true leader, and they have also learned teamwork from the strangers which means that it's not only the leader coming after them, but the whole tribe, united in a way they never have been before. BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 23:45
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I mean this in all seriousness, one of my favorite Doctor Who scenes ever is the one in An Unearthy Child where a caveman (a bad guy, at that) struggles to articulate to another one the process of thinking/imagination/deduction. It's actually kinda stunning. From memory it's something like,"I can see it with my eyes, as I see when I sleep" and the other one clearly can't quite grasp what he is getting at but wants to. KAL: My eyes tell me what has happened. As they do when I sleep and I see things. Za and Hur came to free them, and find a way to make fire. The old woman saw them. Za killed old woman. HORG: The old woman is dead. It must have been as your eyes said it was. KAL: Za has gone with them, taking them to their cave. Za takes away fire. Now I, Kal, lead. Go!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2018 23:50
|
|
|
That's it, yep. Love it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2018 00:44
|
|
|
I think the last episode was good as a regular episode, but it lacked the punch of a season finale. When the Doctor says something like "I know that voice" we've been conditioned to expect The Master or Davros or The Valeyard to come sauntering out. When they say "Earth will be destroyed" we expect to see shots of people on the planet freaking out, see the loved ones of Our The character moments were great, but there was no epicness. Some people will love that, but I wanted to see more. Also I think they missed the mark with The Doctor being responsible for Tim Shaw's wave of destruction. In the past we've seen the Doctor create problems unintentionally, such as Ashildr/Me. But here the Doctor did the "right" thing and let Tim go--and he ends up enslaving 1/3 of an entire race for 3000 years (even if they do live a long time and it's just 2 of them), destroying 5 planets and killing all life on them, causing the deaths of hundreds of people who tried to stop him--and the Doctor is like "yeah don't put this on me." No maybe DO put it on you.  That's a lot of collateral damage to be "The Woman Who Never Would." It's particularly jarring in a season where several times we see the Doctor vaguely solve some problem in a way that leaves loose ends like Space Racist. Tim Shaw just happens to be the loose end we see?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:28 |
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:KAL: My eyes tell me what has happened. As they do when I sleep and I see things. Za and Hur came to free them, and find a way to make fire. The old woman saw them. Za killed old woman. Shame it's all been downhill since then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2018 02:23
|
|
