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we've been in the gently caress stage for like a decade
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Dec 10, 2018 06:25
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Yeah, the most accurate climate change image is ThisIsFine.jpg
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Dec 10, 2018 15:43
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gently caress should be the red, and yellow should just be silence.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY A parable for our time.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:15
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Strap yo'selves in for a gooder, friendos. Pliocene and Eocene provide best analogs for near-future climates quote:The expected departure of future climates from those experienced in human history challenges efforts to adapt. Possible analogs to climates from deep in Earth’s geological past have been suggested but not formally assessed. We compare climates of the coming decades with climates drawn from six geological and historical periods spanning the past 50 My. Our study suggests that climates like those of the Pliocene will prevail as soon as 2030 CE and persist under climate stabilization scenarios. Unmitigated scenarios of greenhouse gas emissions produce climates like those of the Eocene, which suggests that we are effectively rewinding the climate clock by approximately 50 My, reversing a multimillion year cooling trend in less than two centuries. quote:Our study suggests that climates like those of the Pliocene will prevail as soon as 2030 CE and persist under climate stabilization scenarios. quote:will prevail as soon as 2030 CE and persist under climate stabilization scenarios. quote:persist under climate stabilization scenarios.  quote:Hence, RCP4.5 is roughly equivalent to stabilizing at Pliocene-like climates, while unmitigated emission trajectories, such as RCP8.5, are similar to reversing millions of years of long-term cooling on the scale of a few human generations. Both the emergence of geologically novel climates and the rapid reversion to Eocene-like climates may be outside the range of evolutionary adaptive capacity. We hosed, my dear sweet goons. Rime fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 02:17
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friendbot2000 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY I remember this video. The dragon is suppose to represent death and we need to "cure" that so no one ever dies.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:18
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OhFunny posted:I remember this video. Oh, the lesswrong.com crew. Death is avoidable and thinking otherwise makes you "deathist." They think AI is the biggest existential threat to humanity. Haha, suckers. Our clathrate gun will crush your puny Paperclip Maximizer.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:44
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Rime posted:Strap yo'selves in for a gooder, friendos. Pliocene to eocene in one generation is just astonishing lmao.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:34
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i've been thinking about this you figure the rainforests in the yukon/sibera lattitudes were only able to get there because they had a few thousand years to move over hundreds of generations (tree generations) they're just not going to be able to move anywhere near quick enough this time part of an attempt to save as much biodiversity as possible will need to be creating some kind of corridor or just out and out re-planting/transplanting every type of plant and animal life we can as far north as possible as quickly as possible
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Dec 11, 2018 05:55
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StabbinHobo posted:i've been thinking about this I was thinking about this the other day except animal tissue cultures, eggs, and sperm. If we can't save some biodiversity we might be able to resurrect them. I know the science isnt quite there yet...but I feel we might be able atone for our sins. It is a silly notion, but what weighs most heavy on my heart is all the life that will be snuffed out because of our hubris. We made our beds, the animals and plants did not ask for this...
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Dec 11, 2018 06:06
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Pliocene to eocene in one generation is just astonishing lmao.  gently caress trying to pay off my student loans what's the point 
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Dec 11, 2018 06:07
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lmao "geologically novel climates". It is astounding how big of a fuckup can be encapsulated in just three words
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Dec 11, 2018 06:09
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friendbot2000 posted:I was thinking about this the other day except animal tissue cultures, eggs, and sperm. If we can't save some biodiversity we might be able to resurrect them. They had their chance to strangle us in the crib but they chose to spend their evolutionary time evolving claws and spiked torpedo dicks and long floppy noses. I will not weep for creatures that had millions of years to surpass us and instead squandered it! Means tested survival of the fittest!
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Dec 11, 2018 06:11
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StabbinHobo posted:i've been thinking about this cut up 1sqmi blocks of land and transport them north 2 degrees every ten years obviously.
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Dec 11, 2018 06:12
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friendbot2000 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY That's huh... I don't know what you were going for posting this.
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Dec 11, 2018 11:34
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Conspiratiorist posted:That's huh... I don't know what you were going for posting this. Well, the ending isn't quite applicable, but the parallels between the dragon being the oil/gas/greenhouse gasses/climate change and then the king's advisors saying "this is how it always has been" or "this is fine" was pretty apt. The child speaking up in favor of killing the dragon when no one else would, sparking a torrent of support. Then you have the parallel of the sheer amount of joint work that the entire kingdom had to go through to defeat the dragon, though, in the end, so many had died in the dragons gluttony. It almost perfectly describes what we are facing today. Almost. I think art is honestly going to help climate change conversion a lot. We have already won those who will listen to reason and science, the only way for everyone else is through different mediums like art, music, and storytelling. Propaganda can be a force for good and I think it is time we start weaponizing it to try to convert as many as we can to the reality of the work that needs to be done. We need to start forming groups, where people can talk about this stuff too. Once it dawns on you how bad things are...the natural reaction is to just shut down because it feels too big and is just...soul-crushing. That is one of the reasons I wanted this thread to have a lighter tone of hope and action because we can't let despair take us. Fear and despair is a paralytic, we need courage more than anything in the next ten years. In light of this, I am adding a section in the OP for any good, provocative art that you come across that can be used to win people to the cause. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 13:31
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I'm fairly sure I've reached that threshold where all one does is read as much about how humans are trying to mitigate climate change on this thread, the cspam one, twitter, reddit, youtube, some science dissemination portals and fora then feel really lovely and dark. I'm fairly sure I'm now just like many others in this and previous iteration of this thread so gonna take a bit of a break from all this. heck, its 1:30am and i have work tomorrow and here i am reading about extinction rebellion on the guardian.co.uk again. every time i chance across that infograph chart of how quickly we need to drop emissions NOW i stare at it feeling super "ah well" about all this.friendbot2000 posted:I am adding a section in the OP for any good, provocative art that you come across that can be used to win people to the cause.  even just the last panel would be rad. some may recall, this was popular on the net like ten years ago so goons will get a lil nostalgia kick.Lampsacus fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 13:38
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Lampsacus posted:I'm fairly sure I've reached that threshold where all one does is read as much about how humans are trying to mitigate climate change on this thread, the cspam one, twitter, reddit, youtube, some science dissemination portals and fora then feel really lovely and dark. I'm fairly sure I'm now just like many others in this and previous iteration of this thread so gonna take a bit of a break from all this. heck, its 1:30am and i have work tomorrow and here i am reading about extinction rebellion on the guardian.co.uk again. every time i chance across that infograph chart of how quickly we need to drop emissions NOW i stare at it feeling super "ah well" about all this. Perfectly normal reaction my dude. It helps to talk about it with people because keeping that heavy poo poo inside is a paralytic. Talking about these feelings helps move you through the stages of grief, because...let's be real, you go through a grief process with climate change. Also, thank you for that comic! That last panel is quite powerful! I was wondering something today. 2 Day Shipping/next day often involves companies to ship via air travel yeah? Is Ground shipping more or less of a carbon cost in comparison to short-haul shipping? Now before ya'll start yelling that one individual not ordering packages long distance accomplishes nothing, I was thinking about getting the Climate Group I am starting in the DC Area to work on small achievable lifestyle changes and messaging initiatives. So I am just spitballing here and seeing what sticks.
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Dec 11, 2018 16:10
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friendbot2000 posted:Well, the ending isn't quite applicable, but the parallels between the dragon being the oil/gas/greenhouse gasses/climate change and then the king's advisors saying "this is how it always has been" or "this is fine" was pretty apt. The child speaking up in favor of killing the dragon when no one else would, sparking a torrent of support. Then you have the parallel of the sheer amount of joint work that the entire kingdom had to go through to defeat the dragon, though, in the end, so many had died in the dragons gluttony. It almost perfectly describes what we are facing today. Almost. The reason it doesn't work is because the whole thing is based off an article written by a crazy endless growth cornucopian, hence the solution to the problem being SCIENCE, the error of the people was not SCIENCE-ing harder and earlier, and the moral at the end is that all future problems will likewise be solved through SCIENCE. Also the problem is so simple a child can understand it, and it all comes down to how it makes us feel bad, therefore we needn't even worry about what comes after, just go for it using SCIENCE, and the correct way to use SCIENCE is to continue living just the way we do but giving scientists more money. What this poo poo actually encapsulates really well is the hopeful 90s outlook that all human problems are solvable through continued growth and technological progress, and all we need is to apply ourselves a little. It's certainly a well done animation, but just dropping this here without further context is akin to going into a historical films thread and cluelessly promoting Birth of a Nation as a cool and good Civil War piece.
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Dec 11, 2018 17:29
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Conspiratiorist posted:The reason it doesn't work is because the whole thing is based off an article written by a crazy endless growth cornucopian, hence the solution to the problem being SCIENCE, the error of the people was not SCIENCE-ing harder and earlier, and the moral at the end is that all future problems will likewise be solved through SCIENCE. Also the problem is so simple a child can understand it, and it all comes down to how it makes us feel bad, therefore we needn't even worry about what comes after, just go for it using SCIENCE, and the correct way to use SCIENCE is to continue living just the way we do but giving scientists more money. Good point. I could have added a bit more instead of dropping it in the thread, but I was lazy. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 17:45
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God, I wish climate change was as huge, terrifying, and imposing to the naked eye as an all-consuming dragon. Enough people would actually feel a sense of urgency then.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:15
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Kunabomber posted:God, I wish climate change was as huge, terrifying, and imposing to the naked eye as an all-consuming dragon. Enough people would actually feel a sense of urgency then. 
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Dec 11, 2018 18:24
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yeah but it's not happening in my country/state/county/city/neighborhood/block
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Dec 11, 2018 18:28
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At least that McDonalds survived.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:34
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Pretty sure that smoldering wreckage is the mcdonalds based on the road layout.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:35
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Like off-hand comments like "I noticed there's no fireflies around our neighborhood anymore." freak me the gently caress out, and last time I drove down Florida I didn't need to scrape off a sheet of bug guts off my windshield. If I start making hay about that kind of stuff I'll probably be considered to be going crazy over nothing. I have noticed that conservatives here in Texas are not trying to shout down GHG and global warming talk so there's some positive direction, which gives me a bit of hope. The recent hot as hell summers probably contributed to that, and a lot of people here still have their roots in farming so they are acutely aware of the climate and weather. I feel that as a society humanity can turn on a dime to face this threat but it remains to be seen if it will be in time to mitigate the most horrible effects because goddamn we love procrastinating.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:43
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Rime posted:Strap yo'selves in for a gooder, friendos. I have nothing to add in regards to this report, besides the following: Dylan Thomas posted:Do not go gentle into that good night, EDIT: And that corny speech from Independence Day DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 18:49
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Kunabomber posted:Like off-hand comments like "I noticed there's no fireflies around our neighborhood anymore." freak me the gently caress out, and last time I drove down Florida I didn't need to scrape off a sheet of bug guts off my windshield. If I start making hay about that kind of stuff I'll probably be considered to be going crazy over nothing. Pointing out the lack of bugs is actually surprisingly effective on older folks that distinctly remember and hated all those loving bugs. It freaks them out really bad because it's a clear and tangible result that cannot be denied. The issue with the deniers in the US isn't that they don't see the changes, they do since they have sensation (probably), but that they've been trained/are predisposed to discount the notion that humans can have such a grand impact on the planet. In my experience, the emotional anchor comes from the idea that only God can end/significantly alter the planet as a whole and its arrogant to state that humans can alter creation to that degree. They'll have lots of obfuscating arguments that don't explicitly say that, but that's what it comes down to. Pointing out the story of the Tower of Babel has worked on the more literal Christians I've convinced, though.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:51
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Admiral Ray posted:Pointing out the lack of bugs is actually surprisingly effective on older folks that distinctly remember and hated all those loving bugs. It freaks them out really bad because it's a clear and tangible result that cannot be denied. The issue with the deniers in the US isn't that they don't see the changes, they do since they have sensation (probably), but that they've been trained/are predisposed to discount the notion that humans can have such a grand impact on the planet. In my experience, the emotional anchor comes from the idea that only God can end/significantly alter the planet as a whole and its arrogant to state that humans can alter creation to that degree. They'll have lots of obfuscating arguments that don't explicitly say that, but that's what it comes down to. Pointing out the story of the Tower of Babel has worked on the more literal Christians I've convinced, though. How do you use the Tower of Babel? I am aware of the generalities of the story, but I am curious as to how you use that to change minds?
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Dec 11, 2018 18:55
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If I'm remembering right, mankind was getting close to making themselves equals to God. So God struck them down and made them speak different languages so they couldn't collaborate anymore. Well now we are collaborating again, all 7 billion of us. Kunabomber fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 19:09
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friendbot2000 posted:How do you use the Tower of Babel? I am aware of the generalities of the story, but I am curious as to how you use that to change minds? For those who don't know the story: quote:Genesis 11:1-9 New International Version (NIV) The passage I use is: quote:5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” Why would God scatter us if we are incapable of great things? Denying our capability to alter the planet seems to deny God's judgement that we were too dangerous to let be if we were united. God scattered us and confused us, but we now have overcome that confusion and work with unified purpose, and in doing so will accomplish great and terrible things. A passage that can be used to drive this home is: quote:Genesis 1:26-30 New International Version (NIV) God explicitly gave us dominion over the Earth, to rule it and care for it and subdue it. Denying our responsibility here is denying our charge of stewardship of the planet and explicit denial of God. It also contains a command for vegetarianism in it. I'm an atheist, but I was raised as a weird mix between Evangelical, Baptist, and Seventh Day Adventist so I have a lot of exposure to arguing about these sorts of things with American Christians. Taking the question of good environmental stewardship out of the "political" and into the realm of clear cut divine commands makes people less defensive about it in my experience.
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Dec 11, 2018 19:14
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i don't get the point if you convince them that global warming is god scattering our capitalist tower... then they just think its good fits perfectly into them country folks being ok while the city dwellers in their glass and steel towers will feel gods wrath
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Dec 11, 2018 19:29
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StabbinHobo posted:i don't get the point I'm not saying this is a cure all, but I've had success with this angle. Realistically you only really run into this issue in the US since we're the only ones in the loving world that has a national party that explicitly denies global warming.
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Dec 11, 2018 19:38
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Conspiratiorist posted:The reason it doesn't work is because the whole thing is based off an article written by a crazy endless growth cornucopian, hence the solution to the problem being SCIENCE, the error of the people was not SCIENCE-ing harder and earlier, and the moral at the end is that all future problems will likewise be solved through SCIENCE. Also the problem is so simple a child can understand it, and it all comes down to how it makes us feel bad, therefore we needn't even worry about what comes after, just go for it using SCIENCE, and the correct way to use SCIENCE is to continue living just the way we do but giving scientists more money.  It's a tangent, but for those interested there was a decent mock thread focusing on those types of A holes- The Less Wrong Mock Thread: The Big Yudkowsky https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3627012
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Dec 11, 2018 19:55
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Epitope posted:
Ah poo poo. I didn't realize it was from those loving goobers. I tend to stay away from those parts of the internet. Well, now I feel like a dummy...
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Dec 11, 2018 20:16
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Admiral Ray posted:God explicitly gave us dominion over the Earth, to rule it and care for it and subdue it. Denying our responsibility here is denying our charge of stewardship of the planet and explicit denial of God. It also contains a LMAO if you thing Evangelicals actually give a poo poo what the Bible says, these are the same people that regularly quote about gays and then ignore the same passages about shellfish and mixed materials. Quoting the Bible at these people is going to get us nowhere.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:22
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CommieGIR posted:LMAO if you thing Evangelicals actually give a poo poo what the Bible says, these are the same people that regularly quote about gays and then ignore the same passages about shellfish and mixed materials. We're already heading to hell but I still think it's fun to bring more people into the death cult of climate change awareness.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:24
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Admiral Ray posted:We're already heading to hell but I still think it's fun to bring more people into the death cult of climate change awareness. "Awareness" being the key word. Evangelicals don't have that capability.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:26
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The death cult is loving business as usual.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:28
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CommieGIR posted:"Awareness" being the key word. Evangelicals don't have that capability. Alright if you say so.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:29
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