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mods changed my name posted:WWI cracks me up, like poo poo when you name it WORLD WAR I you're pretty much begging for there to be a World War II and who knows how many more after that like, c'mon guys They didn't, that came later. It was called the Great War afterward, I'm pretty sure. They didn't *expect* there to be a second one. Godholio posted:You kind of picked one of the biggest points of historical debate about one of the biggest wars in history, and used it as the centerpiece of your argument. In a military subforum. With several people who have graduate degrees in history, and a whole lot more who actually read quality books on history out of personal interest.
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Dec 10, 2018 03:35
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It's kind of the MCU thing like no one know it was going to be a thing until the stinger of the first movie or whatever, which I guess would have been the Versailles Treaty and like everything else has been the WW1 EU (extended universe, not to be confused with European Union which obviously came later, but is also part of the EU I guess, I'm not sure if this is canon or if its been categorized as "Legends")
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Dec 10, 2018 03:37
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mods changed my name posted:WWI cracks me up, like poo poo when you name it WORLD WAR I you're pretty much begging for there to be a World War II and who knows how many more after that like, c'mon guys I'm still waiting for the third one in the series, I'm getting bored of all these side stories in the franchise
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Dec 10, 2018 03:44
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SPOILER ALERT: Mickey Dies in III, but IV has a robot
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Dec 10, 2018 03:46
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mods changed my name posted:WWI cracks me up, like poo poo when you name it WORLD WAR I you're pretty much begging for there to be a World War II and who knows how many more after that like, c'mon guys Ayfkm?
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Dec 10, 2018 04:01
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Dec 10, 2018 04:04
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Godholio posted:You kind of picked one of the biggest points of historical debate about one of the biggest wars in history, and used it as the centerpiece of your argument. In a military subforum. With several people who have graduate degrees in history, and a whole lot more who actually read quality books on history out of personal interest. Tanks were not the center point of my argument. My argument is that "WWI started only because people had new toys and wanted to use them" is equally as wrong as "No general or admiral ever lied or mislead anyone in order for their pet project to get deployed" Tanks are literally the least important part of my argument.
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Dec 10, 2018 04:11
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And then a bunch of people who actually study the setting for a living told you "not really no" and you went "YUH-HUH" and here we are.
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Dec 10, 2018 04:13
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World War I was fake news, prove me wrong 
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Dec 10, 2018 04:16
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CainFortea posted:Tanks were not the center point of my argument. My argument is that "WWI started only because people had new toys and wanted to use them" is equally as wrong as "No general or admiral ever lied or mislead anyone in order for their pet project to get deployed" A lot of the primary belligerents of WWI had already tried out their new toys prior to 1914 though, so let's just stick with that Archie Duke bloke who shot the ostrich because he was hungry.
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Dec 10, 2018 04:43
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Malachite_Dragon posted:And then a bunch of people who actually study the setting for a living told you "not really no" and you went "YUH-HUH" and here we are. Nope. You should try reading the posts and more importantly, the author's name. CainFortea fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 05:18
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Godholio posted:You kind of picked one of the biggest points of historical debate about one of the biggest wars in history, and used it as the centerpiece of your argument. In a military subforum. With several people who have graduate degrees in history, and a whole lot more who actually read quality books on history out of personal interest. This is precisely why I love watching debates in here  Pretty much half of my personal war history purchases have come from this forum.
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Dec 10, 2018 05:52
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There were no World Wars, because all wars are civil wars, since all men are brothers.
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Dec 10, 2018 05:54
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A Bad Poster posted:There were no World Wars, because all wars are civil wars, since all men are brothers.  only the war of the worlds against the fathead mars dudes really counts
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Dec 10, 2018 05:58
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CainFortea posted:Nope. You should try reading the posts and more importantly, the author's name. Ah yes, the "Read what I said again, slowly" style. When done right, no can defense. 
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Dec 10, 2018 06:02
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Ah yes, the "Read what I said again, slowly" style. When done right, no can defense. I'd settle for "read it at least once understanding that i'm not the guy you think you're talking to".
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Dec 10, 2018 06:10
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CainFortea posted:I'd settle for "read it at least once understanding that i'm not the guy you think you're talking to". Glad you could make an appearance in the idiot thread. I'm still a big fan of the christmas truce during WW1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce Kind of sucks that most of those guys were likely killed / shell shocked from their experiences. Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 06:35
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mods changed my name posted:It's kind of the MCU thing like no one know it was going to be a thing until the stinger of the first movie or whatever, which I guess would have been the Versailles Treaty and like everything else has been the WW1 EU (extended universe, not to be confused with European Union which obviously came later, but is also part of the EU I guess, I'm not sure if this is canon or if its been categorized as "Legends") The sequel was way darker than the first one too. They wrote out the French pretty much right away, and took the really disturbing Armenian genocide subplot from the original and massively expanded it.
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Dec 10, 2018 06:51
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Malachite_Dragon posted:They didn't, that came later. It was called the Great War afterward, I'm pretty sure. They didn't *expect* there to be a second one. Yep, the other common name for it was "The War to End All Wars". A large part of why the Western Powers were so hands-off with Hitler was because a large fraction of society very strongly did not want a sequel.
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Dec 10, 2018 09:15
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My grandfather served in France in the Great War. It left him fairly pacifist, up until it became clear what Germany was up to. Then, of course my dad and uncle went to West Point.
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Dec 10, 2018 14:10
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Dear slapfighting idiots: 
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Dec 10, 2018 17:54
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What the gently caress did you just loving say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the history program, and I’ve been involved in numerous published articles on World War 1 and 2, and I have an over 300 page book. I am trained in international relations and I’m the top lecturer in the entire history department. You are nothing to me but just another student. I will fail you the gently caress out with grading the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my loving words. You think you can get away with saying that poo poo to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of professors across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your argument. You’re loving dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can grade you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in historical writing, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Congressional Library and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable post off the face of the continent, you little poo poo. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your loving tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will poo poo fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re loving dumb, kiddo.
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Dec 10, 2018 19:25
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Speaking of good sources, does anyone have a short list of suggested reading subject/authors?
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Dec 10, 2018 19:33
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toplitzin posted:Speaking of good sources, does anyone have a short list of suggested reading subject/authors? Shim in this dead gay forum.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:47
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I guess the pessimistic naming of World War I did have precedence with the Hundred Years War. Like man, that's one hell of a commitment to make imo
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Dec 10, 2018 20:58
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Glad you could make an appearance in the idiot thread. Joyeux Noel is still one of my favorite movies and definitely worth a watch so long as you're not looking for a literal documentary on the topic.
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Dec 10, 2018 21:21
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toplitzin posted:Speaking of good sources, does anyone have a short list of suggested reading subject/authors? The first one that comes to mind is All Quiet on the Western Front, but that's kind of the expected answer and also fictionalized. I also have The Realities of War (also published in the US as Now it Can be Told)- written by a British war correspondent posted on the western front. His original reports were censored and sanitized by the British government, but after the war he was able to write about what he had really seen (hence the name). e: vv drat I'm going to have to read that vv As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 22:06
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Military history thread can recommend some great books, but off the top of my head The Sleepwalkers is a great book on how and why ww1 starts, and forums poster trin tragular did a blog where he covered ww1 day by day, starting in 2014 so it was 100 years ago to the day. He got up to 1916 before not having the time to keep going, but he does an amazing job of dispelling the myth that ww1 was just dudes sitting around in a trench most of the time. Stuff happens every day.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:12
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I read The World Undone and that was a solid account of the War. Still kind of pop-history though, don't reference it on your college essay.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:21
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toplitzin posted:Speaking of good sources, does anyone have a short list of suggested reading subject/authors? The Guns of August is a really good read.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:25
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C.S. Forester's The General *fiction, but so good E: For maximum irony the latest edition has a cover blurb from none other than John Kelly shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 22:31
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The General is a terrific novel. Almost spooky in its realism. I'll throw in Massie's Dreadnought and Castles of Steel for coverage of the lead up to war, especially the battleship building race between England and Germany, and then the actual war at sea.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:38
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Not a book, but the YouTube channel "The Great War" did a really good summary of the war week by week, and it's additional material was awesome- the poo poo like bios, Q+A, and the like.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:43
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Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger is a great piece of WWI literature. It's the memoirs of a German who enlisted at the very start of the war. Earlier translations give the picture of a man caught up in nationalist fervor who genuinely enjoys combat, though later versions have changed that to be more audience-friendly.
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Dec 11, 2018 01:30
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toplitzin posted:Speaking of good sources, does anyone have a short list of suggested reading subject/authors? Charley’s War.
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Dec 11, 2018 04:42
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mllaneza posted:The General is a terrific novel. Almost spooky in its realism. Castle of Steel is good, Dreadnought gets faaaar too deep into the weeds for the average history nerd.
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Dec 11, 2018 05:30
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In Great Spirits Basically the diary of an Australian named Archie Barwick that served in WWI as an infantry troop. He was there for 4 years or so and describes in great detail the horrible poo poo they went through. At one point they charged directly into German held trenches and suffered 60%+ casualties and he makes it out with a few cuts. He was in Turkey too and said the Turkish were much better sports about the war vs the Germans who would sometimes shoot the medics.
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Dec 11, 2018 05:49
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Vengarr posted:The Guns of August is a really good read. It's a good read but unfortunately, dated as heck and gives some seriously wrong impressions to the reader. Sleepwalkers is better as historical research, but a lot drier.
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Dec 11, 2018 10:21
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I love book chat: Thunder and Flames: Americans in the Crucible of Combat, 197-1918 is brand new and awesome. It's about the AEF in the French sectors and how they worked up to combat. It's amazing to see an army of volunteers go from completely untrained to sorta trained then dying as their officers figure out how to trench warfare.
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Dec 11, 2018 17:46
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I'd suggest reading "The Beauty and the Sorrow: An Intimate History of the First World War" by Peter Englund if you want to read about how loving different those 4 years could turn out in terms of experiences and hardships depending on where you were in the world during the war. The book follows 20 people through their journal entries going through the war (all of them in different places and spread out across all the major/minor players of the war). It wont give you a god's eye view, but it will help you understand a little more about the parts that history usually summarizes.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:07
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