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MonsieurChoc posted:That's what happened for me with Trinity. Of Trinity? Yeah, they're both out. The Trinity core has really bad art. Like, I don't think there's a single "good" piece in it, just very generic and mediocre action-movie pieces. Aeon looks a lot better, in part, I think, because it has a very defined set of visual motifs and that meant they couldn't just draw a backer doing a Chun Li kick. The layout on both is actually very nice and clean and I would really like it except that whoever does Onyx Path's layout insists on indenting after a heading, which is my layout berserk button. The writing for Aeon shows a lot of love; I think I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. My one question is why they hired Leif Jones back, but didn't have him do any pieces in the dark style which I would have called the iconic art for Trinity.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:37
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leif jones not doing kostbaar is simultaneously a blessing and a curse on the art for trinity new edition from the sounds of it a blessing because the kostbaar "fashion" was stupid and ugly (and I don't like lief jones' style to begin with) but a curse because it means they just let him do whatever
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Dec 10, 2018 20:41
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what's a kostbaar is it a kind of bear
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Dec 10, 2018 20:42
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Rand Brittain posted:Of Trinity? Yeah, they're both out. How much was changed of the setting? I'm asking because I really loved the Trinity setting, but there was definitely a lot that could benefit from changes.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:44
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Kostbaar is a fashion designer from the future. The stuff being referred to involves a lot of spirals, South American and African influences, and the color purple. Anyway, the book is still full of Kostbaar-style fashion, so that isn't the reason. It even has art by Leif Jones; it's just colorful and in a much more realistic style than he used to do for Trinity.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:44
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MonsieurChoc posted:How much was changed of the setting? I'm asking because I really loved the Trinity setting, but there was definitely a lot that could benefit from changes. Not a huge amount? I can't remember anything that I would describe as an actual "change," more stuff like: 1) Let's actually try to focus on Sudamerica and Africa as the powerhouse continents instead of just saying they're the most powerful and then doing their books never. 2) Chitra Bhanu and Upeo wa Macho are playable from the beginning. 3) The metaplot is laid out from beginning to end with the Doyen as the main antagonists. (I actually really like the way this is set up, where the "optimistic sci-fi" take on metaplot means that instead of the future being doomed, humanity's future is a series of costly victories that player characters could turn into triumphs.) A few other things got tweaked, so that Norca is now a group of ecoterrorist/socialist Robin Hoods rather than a bizarrely compassionate Mafia. EDIT: I think they also did a fair amount to downplay corruption in the psi orders and the Aeon Trinity, and to make the Trinity a more attractive option for player character concepts. Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 20:47
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Rand Brittain posted:A few other things got tweaked, so that Norca is now a group of ecoterrorist/socialist Robin Hoods rather than a bizarrely compassionate Mafia. This, this I like. I wonder how hard it would be to run the Darkness Revealed adventure using the new system. I've got books 1 and 3 and could probably get the 2nd one from DriveThru.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:50
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Joe Slowboat posted:It's the Wyrd, not the Wyld. And the fact that they receive their titles from laws they entered into doesn't make them not nobility. They do, in fact, 'own the land entire.' They agreed to the laws, even if even they don't know the whole of those laws. The laws would not exist without them. To quote Tuxedo Catfish quoting Equinox Road (emphasis mine) Yeah it was late and the Exalted talk through me off. The thing is they are exactly as much nobility as a Changeling that joins an Entitlement, or the leaders of the Courts. The Wyrd doesn't care if you are True Fae, or human, or anything really. If you make the oath you get what you are due, the end. Hell it's entirely possible for normal people to make themselves into hobgoblins. You wrap enough obligations and contracts around yourself and you tip the balance, now blammo. You are a creature of the Wyrd. You remove those obligations, and a person goes back to 'normal'ish. The True Fae wove a lot of obligations around themselves, and they made them with more fundamental things than the average being is likely to.....but there's no indication only they could do that, and there's every indication that anything could, in theory. Certain aspects of their being might preclude others making a particular oath [I doubt any other being would have to worry about making an oath to exist, on account of them already existing], but power? Rule? No, I don't expect they are special there. They aren't the Exarchs of Arcadia, who themselves aren't the unquestioned rulers of the Supernal [Although they might be the most unified faction], they are the current dominant life form in that esoteric space. They adapted to the environment and thrived in it. If you really wanted to, you could probably do the same. The question is why would you want to?
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Dec 10, 2018 21:57
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Rand Brittain posted:Kostbaar is a fashion designer from the future. The stuff being referred to involves a lot of spirals, South American and African influences, and the color purple.  No, Kostbaar is Leif Jones' specific alter ego for the line; and this does not really look south american or african to me. Mostly it looks ugly and frankly kinda racist. Also I can't be hosed to even rotate that photo.
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Dec 10, 2018 21:57
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Digital Osmosis posted:I read and liked both editions of Dreaming, but 2E has a special place in my heart because I loving love Rebecca Guay intro art. I also don't remember a ton about Dreaming these days, what do you remember changing between the editions? I don't recall anything as big as say Mage's Avatar Storm. It was a matter of tone. This may have been me reading too much into editorial changes, and it's probably been twenty years since I last compared the two, but I felt that 2E played up the 'magical SCA' thing far more than 1E did. For me, 1E was shot through with lingering resentment and conflict between the Sidhe and the common kiths, from the street level to the Parliament of Dreams. Little overtly violent (the Sidhe won the Accordance War handily, after all), but chafing under the whole Sovereign-enforced high fantasy fairyland thing. Basic noble/commoner friction. 2E kept that, but to my perceptions a lot of the friction was moved to strictly Courtly lines, and the Courts themselves were polarized a great deal more than before: Unseelie courtiers were bad people who loved the modern world, while Seelie ones bought into the new-old feudal trappings of the Sidhe regime wholeheartedly. I don't have a copy of 2E close to hand, but I recall one of the Nocker kith bennies having effects split along those lines. There was an essay somewhere in the book about why changelings found comfort in middle-ages trappings that I never quite bought-- that past-lives Remembrance background was a thing, after all. At the same time, I played with some truly obnoxious SCAdians-- the kind of people who thought it would be a lovely idea to pretend to be their Changeling characters, pretending to be -them-, pretending to be their SCA personas at large-scale events. It's very possible that I've been shoring up the mountain I made out of a molehill for decades now. And the cantrip cards, while pretty, were also the nadir of the whole CCG gold rush. Yikes.
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Dec 10, 2018 23:56
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EMBRACE MISERY, GEHENNA COMES   
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Dec 11, 2018 00:27
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Hostile V posted:EMBRACE MISERY, GEHENNA COMES 
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Dec 11, 2018 00:49
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Page of the beast, nice. Going on about what the implications of C:tL True Fae not being reductible to a thoughtless avalanche, as Mulva has already stated there are many hints that the powers of the Wyrd are not exclusive or creations of the Gentry, and that it is openly stated that the future of a Changeling attempting to 'power-up' to resist their Keeper is to become corrupted by the power, which is very cool and evocative commentary on the nature of abuse, resistance, and acceptance. Further, in I believe Rites of Spring, it suggests strongly that even the first members of the Gentry can have been outsiders that wandered into Arcadia and warped themselves to survive & thrive. Ultimately, reducing the True Fae to a soulless automaton or natural consequence is a weird choice that pretends that abuse is some outside alien force, counter to what is written and also the metaphors being used.
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Dec 11, 2018 01:01
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It wouldn't be my choice? I don't think it's a good idea. I think Equinox Road's take is bad because I feel it leads us down that road. (Folks can disagree with that, and that's fine, and the excerpted 2e material points away from the stuff I don't like, which is cool.)
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Dec 11, 2018 01:25
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Gerund posted:Further, in I believe Rites of Spring, it suggests strongly that even the first members of the Gentry can have been outsiders that wandered into Arcadia and warped themselves to survive & thrive. I thought that was always the case. It's explicitly true as of 2E, anyway.
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Dec 11, 2018 01:50
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Unrelated to Changeling chat, as good as it is, My entire circle of friends has a running joke that started years ago during a Changeling game where the party decided to go to Denny's. Somehow Denny's has become an aspect of every game since then and is simply accepted to be a supernatural hangout, to the point where during a recent Hunter game I had an NPC stop the party from charging into one guns blazing because "that would violate the treaty. Denny's is neutral ground." Does anyone else have a thing like that in their games?
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Dec 11, 2018 02:01
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Xinder posted:Unrelated to Changeling chat, as good as it is, Yes. IHOP.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:04
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Xinder posted:Unrelated to Changeling chat, as good as it is, My last WoD game had all diners, drive-ins, and dives as spiritual neutral ground until Guy Fieri was finally brought down in the Shadow at the Battle of Flavortown.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:07
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So what is the inferior arcana of Flavor?
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Dec 11, 2018 02:11
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good hair?
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Dec 11, 2018 02:13
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Kurieg posted:So what is the inferior arcana of Flavor? Subtlety.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:14
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Xinder posted:Unrelated to Changeling chat, as good as it is, I am running a Vampire game based around the New York greater metro area, which is a mix of interlaced domains. I asked the players to decide what their home domain's version of Elysium was; they decided it was Denny's. All Denny's. Every Denny's is an Elysium, at all times.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:16
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down w the god-machine
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Dec 11, 2018 02:18
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Yes. IHOP. Good call. Mors Rattus posted:I am running a Vampire game based around the New York greater metro area, which is a mix of interlaced domains. I asked the players to decide what their home domain's version of Elysium was; they decided it was Denny's. All Denny's. Every Denny's is an Elysium, at all times. We've decided that all Denny's employees know that their clientele is 95% supernatural but pretend not to notice. "Those goth kids have been at that table for over an hour and are still on their first coffee." "They're regulars, don't bother them."
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Dec 11, 2018 02:56
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In Mors' game the rules of Elysium are that 1) you must order something and 2) you must tip. We run the gamut of orders. I get fries, which I drench with vinegar and ketchup because I enjoy the smell, another character gets pancakes and cuts smiley faces into them and will share, a third player always makes their order to-go so they can give the food to a homeless person and not waste it, etc.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:33
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Gerund posted:Going on about what the implications of C:tL True Fae not being reductible to a thoughtless avalanche, as Mulva has already stated there are many hints that the powers of the Wyrd are not exclusive or creations of the Gentry, and that it is openly stated that the future of a Changeling attempting to 'power-up' to resist their Keeper is to become corrupted by the power, which is very cool and evocative commentary on the nature of abuse, resistance, and acceptance. To be honest, I wish Changeling had something like the three-way Geist endgame, where what you become depends on what you do and how you get there. The inevitability of it is a little disconcerting, even if the risk is a very cool element.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:38
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Mors Rattus posted:I am running a Vampire game based around the New York greater metro area, which is a mix of interlaced domains. I asked the players to decide what their home domain's version of Elysium was; they decided it was Denny's. All Denny's. Every Denny's is an Elysium, at all times. MollyMetroid posted:In Mors' game the rules of Elysium are that 1) you must order something and 2) you must tip. We run the gamut of orders. I get fries, which I drench with vinegar and ketchup because I enjoy the smell, another character gets pancakes and cuts smiley faces into them and will share, a third player always makes their order to-go so they can give the food to a homeless person and not waste it, etc. I loving love this. It's like a LARP inversion.
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Dec 11, 2018 03:42
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Mors Rattus posted:I am running a Vampire game based around the New York greater metro area, which is a mix of interlaced domains. I asked the players to decide what their home domain's version of Elysium was; they decided it was Denny's. All Denny's. Every Denny's is an Elysium, at all times. Every Denny's is a hangout for Vampires at all times? The Ordo Dracul have won!!!
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Dec 11, 2018 04:27
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It's kind of the opposite for my group. Have you seen that really stupid photoshopped sheet of corporate logos? Sbubby's, Mcnaldos, Bubger Kirg? My group ended up meeting to talk strategy at a burger joint and I jokingly confirmed it as a McNaldo's. Since then it's been a running joke to use vaguely silly sounding names for franchises, and a meta-game of trying to get the dumbest sounding one that I won't veto as implausible. Last chapter the party was fighting a Strix that had fused with a Fetch, which gave it the power to see changelings, and clued it into the Wyrd, where it had fled and started hedgeshaping itself an ultra silent hill nightmare fortress and forcibly power-leveling its Wyrd to try and turn itself into/possess one of the Gentry. The party dungeon-dived the hedgefort, fought the strix a little, and then used an Icon they'd gotten from the Autumn King to blast open a hedgegate and drag the strix out into midday and tear its husk open to burn it with sunlight. I hadn't actually planned out where they were gonna re-emerge into the real world and after some neurons in my brain triggered and reminded me of some half remembered meme claiming that 'The best place to fight is a Denny's parking lot', that's where they tumbled out of the hedge back into reality. The party immediately corrected me that it was a Dendy's. Dendy's parking lots are the best place for a supernatural brawl.
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Dec 11, 2018 04:32
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:To be honest, I wish Changeling had something like the three-way Geist endgame, where what you become depends on what you do and how you get there. The inevitability of it is a little disconcerting, even if the risk is a very cool element. I never interpreted Becoming Nightmare to be "inevitable" in any way. The risk is very cool, but I assumed the actual number of changelings who became Others was very low. Partially because I assume very few changelings hit that level of Wyrd in their lifetime, but partially because once you've had one brush with it or heard rumors that it's possible, the solution is extremely easy and doesn't particularly hold you back from meaningful power: squat at Wyrd 9. I'm not really that fond of the bit in the Entitlements preview suggesting how 2e will handle it (that it never results from high Wyrd, but can result from particular "eldritch Entitlements"). I understand that Becoming Nightmare is an idea that kind of warped the readership's impression of what the Gentry are (the otherworldly Strangers are, in fact, mostly otherworldly Strangers), but part of what appealed about Becoming Nightmare was the natural, accidental nature of the risk. I'd be fine with just rumors that some changelings of high Wyrd begin this process, but no mechanics to actually mandate which do; keep it restricted to those who might be narratively appropriate. Digital Osmosis posted:Every Denny's is a hangout for Vampires at all times? The Ordo Dracul have won!!! The sun does not honor the rules of Elysium. Yet, anyway.
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Dec 11, 2018 04:32
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Xinder posted:Unrelated to Changeling chat, as good as it is, The vampire game I used to run had Maccas as a whole declared as an Elysium. No one fights at Maccas in my town so it just made sense. KFC, on the other hand, is a loving bloodbath most nights, and that's without supernatural influence.
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Dec 11, 2018 05:01
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's what happened for me with Trinity. Aeon core just dropped, but I haven't looked at it yet. Been too busy with the frosty one shot. My players have been attacked by tiny snowmen and have defeated them with a combination of ace body spray flamethrowers and vehicular trauma
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Dec 11, 2018 06:11
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Crasical posted:The party immediately corrected me that it was a Dendy's. Dendy's parking lots are the best place for a supernatural brawl.  
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Dec 11, 2018 09:31
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First pass on the KJ's done. It still needs a broader revisit for causes of death but for the compiled global stats I can leave that to wait.
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Dec 11, 2018 09:41
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Thanks for an (as always, I daresay) awesome discussion about the aspects in C:tL! The thing is, I wanted my group to be former playthings for this horrible Fae lady( I want to use Lady Bolevile as a template), have them become knights of a freehold and get their former lives somewhat in order, then flip the script on them and have them discover that one of their children is swapped for a fetch, and now stuck in Arcadia with the Lady, whereafter they have to get the babe out of there before it changes too badly. In this setup, what would the lady's story be, and how could it be compelled and invoked to help/hinder the characters? I'm sorry if these are dumb questions, but this is my first contact with Changeling as said. I Am Just a Box posted:I never interpreted Becoming Nightmare to be "inevitable" in any way. They're talking about Geist (I think) But, what is Becoming Nightmare?  Do I want to know?
Tias fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 11:48
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Becoming Nightmare is the title of a section of 1e's Equinox Road which suggests that some changelings who reach Wyrd 10 brush subconsciously against another level of glamour transcendence. Changelings who brush against this experience begin to steadily lose Clarity and experience hallucinations of Faerie, and those who don't pull themselves from the brink and step back from the wash of power eventually wander to the far end of the Hedge, to shed their humanity and claim the title of Gentry. It gets overemphasized in a lot of readings. I misremembered it myself when I implied that an ideal goal might be that only some changeling characters at this level, chosen for the needs of the story, threaten to become nightmare. That's actually how it already is in Equinox Road. Anyway, second edition appears to make the process no longer happen spontaneously at all.
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Dec 11, 2018 13:32
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Tias posted:one of their children is swapped for a fetch, and now stuck in Arcadia with the Lady, whereafter they have to get the babe out of there before it changes too badly. Watch out for the Bog of Eternal Stench.
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Dec 11, 2018 14:59
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Digital Osmosis posted:Every Denny's is a hangout for Vampires at all times? The Ordo Dracul have won!!! I mean, if you can get to a Denny's at noon, it'd be still be an Elysium at noon, legally, in Newark, New Jersey. e: This is the setting doc I made. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 15:18
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Yawgmoth posted:They have 13 hours in the hedge to get the kid back, but David Bowie keeps heckling them. That's actually not a terrible idea.
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Dec 11, 2018 15:26
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Doing the location pass on the 20th century active combined pop. To meet the minimum figures provided, it's had a lot of unaccounted for entities added - 4k mages, 600 or so fera of most kinds, several thousand Garou, and tens of thousands of various vampires. This is because we have actual figures as well as my count, and only in a few rare cases do the figures meet or exceed those actual figures from the books. Unfortunately for pop ratio purposes this means that, outside of a few of the kinds of critter (e.g. Kuei-jin are largely presumed to be active only in Asia) we can only use them for a global pop ratio, not a local one.
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Dec 11, 2018 15:31
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