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I want to scream at my loving conservative family that all their "I love yous" are meaningless words and their continued support for politicians who don't support any action on climate change means that they almost certainly do not love or even give much of a gently caress about their children and grandchildren. I don't really know what good it would do but I guess I didn't really need a family anyway.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:31
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Admiral Ray posted:Alright if you say so. Ahem "The science is fake/Scientists are liberals/coal creates jobs/fake news/its the end times/I'll get raptured anyways" A lot of these people either a. Do not buy the scientific evidence because its Liberals/Democrats/Insert-your-demonization-here b. Believe that this is supposed to happen anyways because they long for the End Times. Convince people with REAL evidence, not Bible quotes Mozi posted:The death cult is loving business as usual. You haven't paid your dues.
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Dec 11, 2018 20:36
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quote:Climate Change: I have never, and will never, joined or formed an eco-terrorist org And with that path closed, what choices do we, who already do what we can, be we madmen, gentlefolk, or otherwise, then have now? Stand by and watch the world burn? Ssthalar fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 20:45
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CommieGIR posted:Ahem They have good propaganda. That means we should get better propaganda, not that we should give up. "REAL evidence" is not always the best propaganda
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Dec 11, 2018 20:52
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Admiral Ray posted:I'm not saying this is a cure all, but I've had success with this angle. Realistically you only really run into this issue in the US since we're the only ones in the loving world that has a national party that explicitly denies global warming. That would be great if it was just the Republicans, but no you're not. We have one of those too here in the Netherlands, arguably two even, they're just not in power (yet). The upcoming president of Brazil, Bolsonaro, is also largely a denier afaik. I'm sure there are many more.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:28
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Martian posted:That would be great if it was just the Republicans, but no you're not. We have one of those too here in the Netherlands, arguably two even, they're just not in power (yet). The upcoming president of Brazil, Bolsonaro, is also largely a denier afaik. I'm sure there are many more. Oh yeah I forgot about Bolsonaro. Well it's good to know that America isn't as uniquely terrible in this as I thought.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:29
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Epitope posted:They have good propaganda. That means we should get better propaganda, not that we should give up. "REAL evidence" is not always the best propaganda Your not countering made up poo poo with other made up poo poo.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:29
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its a bullshit premise that you're ever gonna convince the dumbest fifth or even third of genpop of anything., just a cowardly excuse to pretend there's an insurmountable stalemate and justify doing nothing. ignore boomers, radicalize your children/nieces/nephews
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Dec 11, 2018 21:43
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Admiral Ray posted:I'm not saying this is a cure all, but I've had success with this angle. Realistically you only really run into this issue in the US since we're the only ones in the loving world that has a national party that explicitly denies global warming. I wrote some  earlier about how the Australian Labor Party tore itself apart over doing something about climate change, and there could easily be a follow-up post about how the conservative Coalition is doing the same over simply acknowledging it.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:44
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StabbinHobo posted:its a bullshit premise that you're ever gonna convince the dumbest fifth or even third of genpop of anything., just a cowardly excuse to pretend there's an insurmountable stalemate and justify doing nothing. Hell yeah.
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Dec 11, 2018 21:48
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StabbinHobo posted:its a bullshit premise that you're ever gonna convince the dumbest fifth or even third of genpop of anything., just a cowardly excuse to pretend there's an insurmountable stalemate and justify doing nothing. Call your mother
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Dec 11, 2018 22:25
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I know this is small potatoes but I was looking for a charity to donate to. Not just straight up but also to switch my Amazon Smile charity too. Has anyone had experience with Cool Earth? Sounds like they take the money and just buy up rainforests in places like Brazil so that it fucks up the market for them and keeps it out of the hands of loggers. But was curious if there was a better one. Just realized I spend enough through Amazon that it accounts for like $100 a year which isn't bad I guess.
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Dec 11, 2018 23:53
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Niwrad posted:I know this is small potatoes but I was looking for a charity to donate to. Not just straight up but also to switch my Amazon Smile charity too. Has anyone had experience with Cool Earth? Sounds like they take the money and just buy up rainforests in places like Brazil so that it fucks up the market for them and keeps it out of the hands of loggers. But was curious if there was a better one. Just realized I spend enough through Amazon that it accounts for like $100 a year which isn't bad I guess. loving amazon smile to save the amazon i can't... i just... ARRRRGGHHHHH gently caress IT BAN ME KILL R URSELF !?!?#11!! KILL YOURSELF NOW
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Dec 12, 2018 00:03
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Niwrad posted:I know this is small potatoes but I was looking for a charity to donate to. Not just straight up but also to switch my Amazon Smile charity too. Has anyone had experience with Cool Earth? Sounds like they take the money and just buy up rainforests in places like Brazil so that it fucks up the market for them and keeps it out of the hands of loggers. But was curious if there was a better one. Just realized I spend enough through Amazon that it accounts for like $100 a year which isn't bad I guess. 350.org is what I did my FB birthday charity thing to.
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Dec 12, 2018 00:11
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Kunabomber posted:I feel that as a society humanity can turn on a dime to face this threat but it remains to be seen if it will be in time to mitigate the most horrible effects because goddamn we love procrastinating. This depends entirely on what you consider "the most horrible effects". Because while there's no bottom to this abyss, according to the IPCC at this point 2°C during the 40s is all but physically inevitable, regardless of political will.
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Dec 12, 2018 01:27
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Ssthalar posted:And with that path closed, what choices do we, who already do what we can, be we madmen, gentlefolk, or otherwise, then have now? Imo there should be campaign to raise awareness among old people that the only reason they can stand on their own two feet in public is we let them, and the only reason we let them is because we have been promised a future, then let them imagine what will happen to them when that future becomes impossible Remember how scared they were of the knockout game lol? eighty-four merc fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 03:34
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In my experience at least the main thing that keeps older people from taking the problem seriously is the idea that things tend to work out if you don't worry about them. Nuclear war never happened after all, "clever innovators" like Steve Jobs/Elon Musk etc will solve the problem, the market will solve it and so on. Being worried, alarmed or compelled to action conflicts heavily with the main boomer ideology of shallow buddhism, zen and personal improvement. They're often people who view themselves as permanently in a lotus position while the world burns down around them.
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Dec 12, 2018 03:45
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This thread (and the climate scientists I follow on twitter) are heavily influencing my outlook on having children, amongst other things. Was on the fence before, even less inclined now. My entire worldview is seen through this lens these days. I'm not even depressed, but instead just trying to remain pragmatic about what the future holds, which influences most of my major life decisions. Welp
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Dec 12, 2018 04:02
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Conspiratiorist posted:This depends entirely on what you consider "the most horrible effects". I rewrote what I think are the "most horrible effects" multiple times before conceding that we're already experiencing it in little doses already, and anyone who is in the third world or even in an unfortunate geographical area in the first world are feeling the full brunt of it. The most horrible effect to me is if the entire ecosystem we rely on collapses, and there's no way for us to provide sustenance without drastic efforts. When we have no future but a spiralling decline into the fossil record of the earth. Even though we've condemned countless other species to this fate, the speciest in me want humanity to survive as a species, and even thrive beyond this century.
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Dec 12, 2018 04:11
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DrNutt posted:I want to scream at my loving conservative family that all their "I love yous" are meaningless words and their continued support for politicians who don't support any action on climate change means that they almost certainly do not love or even give much of a gently caress about their children and grandchildre I haven't screamed 'gently caress you' or anything, but when my family get gaga over their grandchildren I bring up the world their grandkids are inheriting and it really starts to hit them, so much so they kind of push it back out of their mind. Death is certain, but there is a very bad future that awaits and I believe they need to feel on a visceral level that the things they ostensibly care about are threatened. People complain about the economy, jobs, whatever material bullshit. It's pretty much universal that is all trumped by your own children, your own flesh and blood hangs in the balance. People who have lost someone dear through and event they may have prevented often say they would give anything to have their loved ones back, that no ransom is to great. Well, that is where we are now and I see no problem waking people up to that fact as ugly and painful as it is.
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Dec 12, 2018 04:32
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Clarification: Does an RCP 8.5 represent a scenario in which 2005-10 level emissions and policies continue to grow unabatted, or in which all regulations period suddenly cease altogether? I'm thinking that our dawning efforts will begin to show on the emissions rates in about 5 years and that we'll head more towards a 4.5 or 6.5 scenario (2 or 3C), in which the planet does not become a hellscape, but one in which the third world still collapses. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 04:43
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yes 8.5 assumes that mitigation/renewable efforts are basically washed out by other demand growth, not so much that we abandon solar/wind but that even with it emissions continue to grow a small single digit % per year for another couple decades. also lol yes the planet absolutely becomes a hellscape at 4C (and probably 3 but we can't out and out say that yet) also this is still with the "by 2100" framing, even if you think i'm being pessimistic all you're saying "hellscape doesn't come till 2130"
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Dec 12, 2018 04:48
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Grouchio posted:Clarification: Does an RCP 8.5 represent a scenario in which 2005-10 level emissions and policies continue to grow unabatted, or in which all regulations period suddenly cease altogether? RCP8.5 represents a scenario where we maintain our current consumption patterns as best we can afford to, with fossil fuels only eventually displaced by renewables as a result of dwindling reserves and increased cost effectiveness in the latter, and response in terms of necessary shifts in infrastructure and changes in energy policies being disorganized, particularly in regards to global agreements as nations adopt "me first" attitudes and maintain high fossil-fuel use rather than bear the economic costs of phasing them out. That's why it's called business as usual. There's no scenario modeled for a true race to the bottom. Yes, this results in a hellworld all the same.
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Dec 12, 2018 04:57
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It came to my realization that gasoline costs around 2.5 times more per gallon than water. We basically already have the holy grail of cars that run on water from an economic perspective. I don't see how people will give up cars that run on water. I think carbon capture is really our only hope.
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Dec 12, 2018 04:58
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And here I thought we were on the right track towards adaptation, towards 6.5 or 4.5.
Grouchio fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 05:23
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Grouchio posted:And here I thought we were on the right track towards adaptation, towards 6.5 or 4.5. Well, to be fair, RCP6.5 is the more realistic emissions pathway when factoring for up and coming mid-century crises like the next financial collapse, the carbon bubble popping, and general global instability as temperatures cross past 1.5°C. Business as usual fails to properly account for the world burning down, you see, and also makes some assumptions about coal use late in the century that are probably not gonna happen. Probably. That said, with every new Assessment Report the IPCC admits the climate system is more sensitive and in worse shape than previously expected, so we're looking at greater-than-worst-case consequences anyway. And as StabbinHobo said, in the end anything less than negative emissions just means moving hellscape cutoff from 2100 to a few decades later. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 05:57
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Based on the trend of reports as mentioned, it’s just better to assume that poo poo is much much worse than has been published, because that’s the trend all of us have seen; that doesn’t mean to bemoan it, but be prepared for it in any way that is effective.
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Dec 12, 2018 06:27
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I'm already prepared with several backups for the next few decades, but my bemoanment goes to some parts of the first and third world that would otherwise not make it depending on the projections. It is my own empathy that is eating me inside. Also the difference between 8.5 and 6.5 is the difference between Mad Max and Children of Earth (with children). Big effing difference. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 06:34
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IMO the Shared Socioeconomic Pathways do a better job of demonstrating possible emission and societal response pathways from here. SSP3 and SSP4 both provide better pessimistic examples than the silly spew-coal-forever RCP 8.5 world.
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Dec 12, 2018 07:56
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Grouchio posted:Also the difference between 8.5 and 6.5 is the difference between Mad Max and Children of Earth (with children). Big effing difference. for me it's the difference between Interstellar and Idiocracy
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Dec 12, 2018 14:52
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Grouchio posted:I'm already prepared with several backups for the next few decades, but my bemoanment goes to some parts of the first and third world that would otherwise not make it depending on the projections. It is my own empathy that is eating me inside. Do you mean Children of Men?
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Dec 12, 2018 16:46
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Grouchio posted:I'm already prepared with several backups for the next few decades, but my bemoanment goes to some parts of the first and third world that would otherwise not make it depending on the projections. It is my own empathy that is eating me inside. I feel similar. I see all these countries around the planet that I love, see the things I love about them, and wonder if any of this is gonna still exist in a hundred years.
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Dec 12, 2018 20:57
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Children of Men is a little optimistic, but it's not too far off of what people should think of the future.
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Dec 12, 2018 21:02
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Son of Rodney posted:I feel similar. I see all these countries around the planet that I love, see the things I love about them, and wonder if any of this is gonna still exist in a hundred years. Places you remember wouldn't exist in a recognizable state in 100 years anyway even without apocalypse. Go back to somewhere you haven't been in even 20 years and it's usually changed beyond recognition. Weep for the planet and all, but that particular aspect of change has been the norm for basically any hundred year period of human history, everywhere, forever. We're really, really good at changing things in short spans of time.
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Dec 12, 2018 21:14
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https://twitter.com/aprilaser/status/1072735279658688512 Hell yeah.
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Dec 12, 2018 21:43
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The Harvard board would like to welcome its newest member, Immortan Joe. Please give Mr. Joe a great big round of applause everyone.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:05
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I mean, there are drastic actual world solutions we could do so long as humanity hasn't collapsed yet. We could implement full communism now, start massive public works programs of reforestation and start spreading Azolla ferns to every fresh water source we can find particularly in agricultural runoff areas, force regrassification of arid and desert biomes through livestock and water managment and forcibly transition everyone away from ever eating a cow, sheep or a pig again. Heck, we could even start painting everything white to increade earth's albedo and reflect more heat away to compensate for loss of snow cover. We could. But we won't, so long as two things remain: Capitalism and democracy. Capitalism because of obvious reasons, and democracy because the simple fact that democracy is incredibly vulnerable and is basically rule by tragedy of the commons. That's the insurmountable problem, not the actual things we ought to be doing. They just aren't the tools we need for the job, and I would really like to see progress made towards finding better alternatives and a realistic way of getting there. I mean it's 2018, there has to be some way to start everyone towards the path away from consumerist capitalism and gridlocked governments towards a Democracy 2.0: Electric Socialoo?
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Dec 13, 2018 20:21
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Nice piece of fish posted:I mean, there are drastic actual world solutions we could do so long as humanity hasn't collapsed yet. We could implement full communism now, start massive public works programs of reforestation and start spreading Azolla ferns to every fresh water source we can find particularly in agricultural runoff areas, force regrassification of arid and desert biomes through livestock and water managment and forcibly transition everyone away from ever eating a cow, sheep or a pig again. Heck, we could even start painting everything white to increade earth's albedo and reflect more heat away to compensate for loss of snow cover. Through incremental change. You've seen climate change become a massive issue this year. Youve seen leaders and governors go alert and begin trying to implement change. I've even seen conglomerates and business alliances begin to do the same. Change and implementation are snowballing, until the ball is big enough to show noticeable impact. It's now two steps forward one step back, instead of a standstill. Hope for the middle path but be prepared.
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Dec 13, 2018 21:34
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I will barbecue and eat every cow so that there are none left to (g)raze our wilderness. I'm doing my part.(tm) Edit: Aw yes, there's the doom'n'gloom this sort of response was intended for! VVV
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Dec 13, 2018 21:38
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Incremental Change means we all loving die, holy poo poo please stop spouting off that bullshit. You know what isn't going to inclementally change while we spend a few generations tossing the ball around? The loving C02 levels.
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Dec 13, 2018 21:38
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