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1glitch0 posted:Thanks for all the answers, y'all. Who in gently caress's name knows. You could have a new referendum (binding or advisory) that puts 'no Brexit' up against May's deal (or No Deal gently caress You) but the current government would need to legislate to get one, and they never will. You could have a general election, but the current government would have to lose a vote of no confidence first. And then you'd need to assume that Labour would campaign for, and deliver on, a new referendum as legislation. And it's not sure they will, could, or should. Also, all this needs to happen before March 29 2019 when the UK just straight up leaves due to the legal procedures put in place regarding leaving the EU. To prevent that, you'd need the current government to send a letter to the EU kindly asking for more time while they fight (yet another) general election on Brexit, or have another (non-binding) Referendum. The most likely answer is praying to mighty C'thulhu. That could do it.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:36
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It'd be very simple to have No Brexit if Parliament could agree on it, but they can't. So it's going to happen regardless lol
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Dec 12, 2018 11:38
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corn in the bible posted:Officially, Britain has to go to the EU and ask if they can stop the process. But that would definitely be approved, so in reality all that Parliament has to do is decide they don't want to do Brexit Not even. ECJ guidance last week made it clear that the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50. Literally the only thing preventing the avoidance of national catastrophe is political hubris and craven self-interest
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Dec 12, 2018 11:38
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Failed Imagineer posted:Not even. ECJ guidance last week made it clear that the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:41
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Also keep in mind that there's no good political option for any politician no matter what regarding brexit. No matter what happens they're all hosed. It's so hilariously stupid.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:41
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Failed Imagineer posted:Not even. ECJ guidance last week made it clear that the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50. Revoke, yes. Asking for an extension on their homework, no. For that, they do actually have to send a polite note to
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Dec 12, 2018 11:42
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Like the last scene in Reservoir Dogs. What a clusterfuck.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:43
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corn in the bible posted:Sure, some will make a fortune out if it instead. Brexit can be the ultimate short if you've got the money to play stocks. Incidentally, want to guess what Theresa May's husband does for a living? He's a hedge fund manager.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:43
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FizFashizzle posted:Also keep in mind that there's no good political option for any politician no matter what regarding brexit. Stupid, and entirely their own choice. The greatest unforced error in decades.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:45
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FizFashizzle posted:Also keep in mind that there's no good political option for any politician no matter what regarding brexit. And all because a certain posh hamfucker decided he wanted to sort out a intraparty squabble by putting the entire nation at risk of eternal devastation
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Dec 12, 2018 11:48
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Not a bad way for thinking about Brexit and UK party politics is like this: you can 'win' Brexit or the next election, but not both. Choose one.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:50
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Junior G-man posted:Who in gently caress's name knows. You could have a new referendum (binding or advisory) that puts 'no Brexit' up against May's deal (or No Deal gently caress You) but the current government would need to legislate to get one, and they never will. Well... if it's any consolation, the top three elected leaders in the United States had a loud argument in the oval office for no clear reason on live tv yesterday. So I'm down with the C'thulhu option.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:51
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Junior G-man posted:Not a bad way for thinking about Brexit and UK party politics is like this: you can 'win' Brexit or the next election, but not both. Choose one. I think my better question is if, whence May and her chinless ilk have torpedoed the UK's economy, they avoid a breakup of the United Kingdom.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:54
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1glitch0 posted:Well... if it's any consolation, the top three elected leaders in the United States had a loud argument in the oval office for no clear reason on live tv yesterday. At least that was really really funny though.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:56
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Barry Foster posted:At least that was really really funny though. So is this. I don't know what's the matter if you're not in tears over how dumb this all is.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:59
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Liquid Communism posted:I think my better question is if, whence May and her chinless ilk have torpedoed the UK's economy, they avoid a breakup of the United Kingdom. As an Irishman, I certainly hope not. Also whence is a place not a time
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Dec 12, 2018 11:59
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Failed Imagineer posted:As an Irishman, I certainly hope not. Was going for 'once'. Clearly didn't get there, as it's early here. Speaking of which is the Citrus in Chief tweeting yet?
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Dec 12, 2018 12:02
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Brexit leading to a possible united ireland and free scotland is goddamn hilarious.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:02
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Junior G-man posted:So is this. I don't know what's the matter if you're not in tears over how dumb this all is. Eh, Donald Trump once again demonstrating he's a brain dead toddler is nothing new and doesn't really lead to anything. All of this poo poo means there's a distinct possibility I'll be eating rats in three and a half months. I can certainly understand why Americans and you can sit back and lol though
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Dec 12, 2018 12:09
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Am I correct that the issue is more complex because the Leave voters are spread across the traditional political spectrum?
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Dec 12, 2018 12:10
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Am I correct that the issue is more complex because the Leave voters are spread across the traditional political spectrum? Remain and Leave voters are split between the two parties, neither of which can afford to piss off that half due to district voting and first past the post.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:11
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Don't worry, Donald Trump will come to conquer the UK as his own personal possession if he isn't beat to it by the Irish, Scottish or the French.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:12
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Junior G-man posted:Remain and Leave voters are split between the two parties, neither of which can afford to piss off that half due to district voting and first past the post. Tories were 2:1 Leave and have trended further in that direction since, while Labour were 2:1 Remain and have also gone more that way since. So yeah, it's not exactly halves, but neither can afford to piss off such large segments, at least without having been seen to 
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Dec 12, 2018 12:16
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Failed Imagineer posted:Tories were 2:1 Leave and have trended further in that direction since, while Labour were 2:1 Remain and have also gone more that way since. So yeah, it's not exactly halves, but neither can afford to piss off such large segments, at least without having been seen to Yeah, plus those 1/3rd are (I think) very regionally located; like if Labour went hard remain most of their Northern strongholds would be immediately in huge danger of turning Tory, and there's no guarantee you can make that up in the South somewhere.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:18
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I look back at 2016 as the year where the UK and the US--two nations both near and dear to my heart for a variety of reasons--decided to plunge headfirst completely into insanity after a period of relative stability, fueled by Russian bots and money that was used by soulless conservatives to gin up their voter base of angry white racists, who willfully blinded themselves to the fact that things like Brexit and "Donald Trump, POTUS" were absolutely horrible loving ideas.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:18
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I look back at 2016 as the year where the UK and the US--two nations both near and dear to my heart for a variety of reasons--decided to plunge headfirst completely into insanity after a period of relative stability, fueled by Russian bots and money that was used by soulless conservatives to gin up their voter base of angry white racists, who willfully blinded themselves to the fact that things like Brexit and "Donald Trump, POTUS" were absolutely horrible loving ideas. Yeah, as an Irish guy with British and American family 2016 was wild July 2016 Me (looks to the east):  Nov 2016 Me (looks to the west):
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Dec 12, 2018 12:21
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just lmao at ireland in this whole disaster. like what do they expect to happen between ireland and n ireland?
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Dec 12, 2018 12:21
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FizFashizzle posted:just lmao at ireland in this whole disaster. Honestly, Brexit or no Brexit, a border poll on Irish reunification is happening within a decade. If Brexit happens and goes about as well as expected, United Ireland is likely. If no Brexit, probably not. In the meantime, a fairly weak Irish minority government is making huge popularity gains by kicking the Brits in the balls repeatedly lmao e:VVVVV not really. Most Irish expect actual Brexit to be extremely bad for cross-border movement, thus reigniting sectarian conflict Failed Imagineer fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 12:24
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FizFashizzle posted:just lmao at ireland in this whole disaster. that the eu will help them maintain free travel across the border, which it seems they would be willing to do, and also that owning england over and over on a public stage will make the unpopular government more popular, which is working
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Dec 12, 2018 12:25
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FizFashizzle posted:just lmao at ireland in this whole disaster. Nobody knows. The essence is that the Good Friday Agreement (you know, the thing that stopped generations of Irish people from killing each other) states that there can be no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. A No Deal Brexit would deliver that hard border. It's been one of the EU's hard lines throughout all this - that the GFA is respected whatever happens. The easiest way to do that would be to install a customs border in the Irish Sea, but then you're de-facto breaking up the territorial integrity of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Plus, May's government is dependent on 10 absolutely crazy, anti-abortion nutters from the Ulster Unionist party, and they don't want a customs border between them and England. There's really all flavours of madness.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:26
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FizFashizzle posted:just lmao at ireland in this whole disaster. The correct answer is that it never occurred to anyone that NI was hosed until about a year after the whole thing started. Like, none of the Leave campaigning mentioned the Irish border at all. Then all of a sudden, someone realised that the Good Friday Agreement pretty much stops working if the UK leaves the EU.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:27
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Helen Highwater posted:The correct answer is that it never occurred to anyone that NI was hosed until about a year after the whole thing started. Like, none of the Leave campaigning mentioned the Irish border at all. Then all of a sudden, someone realised that the Good Friday Agreement pretty much stops working if the UK leaves the EU. The Irish thing is really fundamental because it's exactly where the question over trade, borders, custom checks, territorial integrity etc. become real. There's no loving around there.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:28
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Helen Highwater posted:The correct answer is that it never occurred to anyone that NI was hosed until about a year after the whole thing started. Like, none of the Leave campaigning mentioned the Irish border at all. Then all of a sudden, someone realised that the Good Friday Agreement pretty much stops working if the UK leaves the EU. It occurred to everyone in Ireland months before the vote and Ireland tried to warn the UK, but it was dismissed as fear-mongering, etc. Junior G-man posted:Ulster Unionist party, *Democratic Unionist Party, of course. the UUP are a much milder flavour of regressive dipshits.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:29
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Every fresh produce transit from NI to Rep and vice versa gets turbofucked as they cant afford to be held up by border checks when they are running this stuff back and forward 10+ times a day
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Dec 12, 2018 12:31
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CyberPingu posted:Every fresh produce transit from NI to Rep and vice versa gets turbofucked as they cant afford to be held up by border checks when they are running this stuff back and forward 10+ times a day You put up a camera, it will get blown up. You put up a barrier, it gets blown up. You put a PSNI guard there, he gets shot or he gets followed home and his family get tiger-kidnapped. You respond to that with British troops on the ground, and you have an international incident, a border skirmish with the EU, and poo poo gets real in Belfast and Derry real fast
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Dec 12, 2018 12:33
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I'd actually be quite happy with an independent Scotland post-Brexit, as my mother was born there and (under rules that the ScotNats have already said they'll put in place should independence ever happen) that automatically grants me Scottish citizenship. So I'd be an EU citizen again, assuming Scotland was allowed to rejoin. (IIRC Spain recently changed their mind on blocking it, as they see it as a way to kick England in the balls even harder over the status of Gibraltar: "If you can't even keep hold of the colonial possession that's literally attached to you, why should you keep the one that's attached to us?")
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Dec 12, 2018 12:34
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CyberPingu posted:Every fresh produce transit from NI to Rep and vice versa gets turbofucked as they cant afford to be held up by border checks when they are running this stuff back and forward 10+ times a day There's literally farms with land that crosses the boundary and roads that skip back and forth for like 200m in one country and then the other. The only people Brexit looks like it might be really, really good for is disaster capitalists and Irish smugglers. Not that that's led to any kinds of problems in the past. Failed Imagineer posted:*Democratic Unionist Party, of course. the UUP are a much milder flavour of regressive dipshits. Yeah, my bad.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:35
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Squalid posted:I keep rereading this and can't parse it at all. Can someone who speaks legalize please help!!! Concurrent Resolutions under the War Powers Act are Big Deal. They normally get special treatment and can't just be left to languish in committee. The Nixon-era authors determined that the president waging forever war was a sufficient evil that they required the House and Senate to report it out of committee in 15 days AND THEN required that it get a vote no later than three days after that. If the CR passes then the President shall gently caress off and stop the military action. Forcing a vote on Yemen means Congressmembers must either explicitly support an ongoing war crime or piss off the Saudis AND set up a likely Constitutional crisis. Republicans (and probably a fair share of Democrats) don't want to be on the record for that. More importantly, it's a procedural thing that Democrats could use to help run the clock out on a few days of the lame duck session. By slipping this through they're just agreeing that this specific undeclared war can be treated like any other piece of legislation they don't like, which is to say referred to committee, never to return.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:39
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1glitch0 posted:So why is May lovely? Imagine if Nicola Murray from The Thick of It was a Tory instead of Labour, just as incompetent, but also extremely racist.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:Imagine if Nicola Murray from The Thick of It was a Tory instead of Labour, just as incompetent, but also extremely racist. And in favour of punishing the poor and disabled to the point of suicide.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:43
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