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I'm still trying to find a prayer routine that I can stick to. At weekends I pray the hours; the Divine Office app has a feature where it can remind you which is helpful. On weekdays more often than not it's just hurried stray thoughts, though last night I prayed the Examen for the first time using a podcast as a kind of guided prayer and that felt pretty nice so I might try to roll that in somewhere.
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Dec 13, 2018 03:41
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Typically I pray once every night before bed - surprise surprise, I'm not fussy and it's as much me putting my thoughts in order for the day as anything. And it tends to come down to "I press on. Lord, let Your will be done." Beyond that, I'll pray on the spot if I'm feeling particularly stressed out or conflicted or depressed. 
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Dec 13, 2018 03:45
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zonohedron posted:I pray while making dinner a lot - something about seeing steam rising invariably reminds me of the line "the prayers of the saints rise like clouds of incense", and even when I'm using the oven or the microwave instead This is a great idea, I cook most of my own meals and I'm going to steal it! semi-related, this is the prayer my family has always done before meals, apparently it's the standard Lutheran prayer? quote:Come Lord Jesus be our guest edit: although in hurried Upper Midwestern mumblings this quickly becomes: quote:Come LorJeezus beer guest Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 03:50
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HopperUK posted:I'm still trying to find a prayer routine that I can stick to. At weekends I pray the hours; the Divine Office app has a feature where it can remind you which is helpful. On weekdays more often than not it's just hurried stray thoughts, though last night I prayed the Examen for the first time using a podcast as a kind of guided prayer and that felt pretty nice so I might try to roll that in somewhere. Liturgical Christianity Thread: I prayed using a podcast and that felt pretty nice
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Dec 13, 2018 03:51
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nevermind! 
POOL IS CLOSED fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 04:16
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I always pray as if I have a conversation with God - way back when I was a kid a teacher told us it was okay to pray with our eyes open and I just kind of started praying as if God was one of my friends standing in the same room as me. Sometimes I worry that He doesn’t appreciate the rambling I sometimes fall into but it often helps me a lot (I have pretty bad anxiety). At bedtime I pray the Lord’s Prayer and finish with a small personal prayer.Pellisworth posted:Contract horror This is a special kind of hell and you’re in my prayers - my PhD supervisor does this too, renewing our contracts/PhD agreements at the literal last minute possible to “motivate us to work harder”. Also I’m cool with anybody asking for prayers here, lurker or no!
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Dec 13, 2018 04:48
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I want to do morning prayer from the BCP but I never manage to keep it up for more than a few days 
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Dec 13, 2018 05:19
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WerrWaaa posted:I want to do morning prayer from the BCP but I never manage to keep it up for more than a few days It is an excellent routine if modern understandings of mental fitness is anything to go by. I found it helps to know other people who go through morning prayers. Sitting alone with a coffee first thing in the morning can make it a distracting process but knowing at least one other person who is going through it as well helps very much: I know my priest does his morning prayers so I often think about joining my prayers to his. I use the First Order out of A Prayer Book For Australia, which is pretty much a 1995 version to be used with BCP; you would be joining your prayers with at least two other people in the world (as well as the global ecumenical fellowship of Christians who make their own morning prayers). The prayers for the end of the day/Complines is a helpful routine for getting a good night's rest if you wanted to look there? Mid afternoon is another excellent time of day for prayers (when Peter healed the lame beggar in Acts 3).
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Dec 13, 2018 05:50
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Pellisworth posted:So, let's talk about prayer! I started praying the Examen before bed last year. Then it gradually grew to practicing it a few times a day. Some time in 2018, I began practicing contemplative prayer.That has strongly clicked with me so far, and I do it several times a day. It's noticeable when I'm not doing it, which more than half the time happens in PYF.
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Dec 13, 2018 07:36
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Mr Enderby posted:Virgin Mary beating up the devil. Hail Mary, full of grace, punch the devil in the face.
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Dec 13, 2018 07:45
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pidan fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2018 07:57
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Morning and Evening prayers from my Old Rite Orthodox prayer book, plus the Jesus prayer and the psalms when I’m feeling up to it. Consistency and praying even when I don’t want to are the tricky parts.
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Dec 13, 2018 08:08
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pidan fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2018 08:37
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Rainbow Pharaoh posted:Hail Mary, full of grace, punch the devil in the face. save this one for whenever we next need a thread title
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Dec 13, 2018 09:20
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I've started this post a few times before and will try not to delete it this time even if I feel like a bad conversion student for thinking what I do. In short, I don't like Judaism's emphasis on Hebrew very much. It feels too much like tradition for tradition's sake and that's something that makes me uncomfortable in part because my experience with tradition for tradition's sake is that it doesn't leave room for people with identities that wouldn't have been possible when those traditions were created. I can understand learning it for bar/bat mitzvahs because that's a rite of passage, but beyond that it feels like it would be a lot more accessible if worship was entirely in the language(s) spoken in a given area and further language study offered to those interested in it. There's probably some historical reason for Hebrew above local languages that I'm missing because I've never been very interested in ancient history. I can make myself interested in events less than a century or so old, but beyond that I have a hard time caring. Always have but I've always felt bad about it too. I honestly feel defective for this at times like now. I also feel really weird attending synagogue because it feels impossible to learn how to sing along when only lyrics are written down in prayer books. I grew up not in any specific denomination until I was 10, attended Lutheran services until high school, and then my family transitioned to a smaller denomination called Advent Christianity, so I'm used to a list of songs either visible from the pews, printed in the weekly bulletin, or both. The latter even had an overhead projector setup to share new songs with the congregation. Not knowing the tunes, and not easily having a way to learn them, makes me feel like I'll never belong to the community no matter how much I've heard or been told that converts are welcome. The synagogue I've been working with is Reform but the intro to Judaism classes I took last year had some teachers from the area who were neither Reform nor Conservative. I can't remember the words they used for themselves or how to get in touch with them, sadly, and I'm anxious enough about falling quiet in 2018 that I'll feel lovely if I ask the rabbi I was working with about how to get in touch with those others.
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Dec 13, 2018 10:57
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In regards to not being able to sing along and stuff like that, I think a lit of that might be a "learn by doing" thing. The more you go to services, the more familiar you'll be with the songs and the melodies and less awkward you'll feel participating.
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Dec 13, 2018 12:07
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I pray out of the Jordanville Prayer Book in the morning and at night. I tried to buy a pocket horologion but it got lost in the mail.
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Dec 13, 2018 12:20
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:I've started this post a few times before and will try not to delete it this time even if I feel like a bad conversion student for thinking what I do. In short, I don't like Judaism's emphasis on Hebrew very much. It feels too much like tradition for tradition's sake and that's something that makes me uncomfortable in part because my experience with tradition for tradition's sake is that it doesn't leave room for people with identities that wouldn't have been possible when those traditions were created. I can understand learning it for bar/bat mitzvahs because that's a rite of passage, but beyond that it feels like it would be a lot more accessible if worship was entirely in the language(s) spoken in a given area and further language study offered to those interested in it. There's probably some historical reason for Hebrew above local languages that I'm missing because I've never been very interested in ancient history. I can make myself interested in events less than a century or so old, but beyond that I have a hard time caring. Always have but I've always felt bad about it too. I honestly feel defective for this at times like now. I used to be the kind of Catholic that goes to Mass in Latin, now I am eastern Orthodox and although most prayers are in the vernacular, the churches I usually go to still use Greek and in some areas Latin (it was a Western-rite Orthodox church) at the special moments. I love those times, because it makes me feel like I have a connection to Orthodox people who have come before me. I am not only an individual, I am a link in a chain--it was there before me and it will be there after me. My responsibility is to hold onto what has been given to me and pass it on to the next generation without change. That's why these languages are also important to me. As for "accessible," the Catholic Church tried to change their rites to make them more accessible in the 1960s and all it did was make them really boring and lame. It also split the church in half, because there was no option like there is for you guys for there to be "conservative catholics" and "reform catholics" or whatever, it was entirely top down and the people who still wanted to pray as they had in the past were either forced out or forced to change. Now when people--mostly people who are our age--are converting to Catholicism, most of them I've seen on the Internet prefer the old version. The inaccessibility is the point--there's a sense of mystery to it, and of grandeur. Fortunately most of the Orthodox never tried to change their ceremonies in the 20th century, bypassing the Catholics' problems. Except the Greeks, who put pipe organs and pews in their churches, both of which should be forbidden. And here again, once the 60s ended most converts to Orthodoxy prefer the versions which are the least accessible, the least modified for individual peoples' sensibilities and tastes. We should not make concessions to modernity. What would we have become if we made concessions to modernity five hundred years ago, or a thousand? I urge you not to abandon the ancient grandeur of a religion that is more than twice as old as mine for the sake of a passing emotion. Edit: Memorizing stuff: that will come with time. My parents taught me the Catholic prayers when I was a child, and that came with time as well. Gradually, I have imbibed the Orthodox prayers, and I think I can detect my thinking becoming more Orthodox as well. Feeling a part of a community you're converting to: I HAVE THIS PROBLEM A LOT. All Orthodox converts who are not members of traditionally Orthodox ethnic groups do. In the US this varies by church--you have churches that are 100% Greek or Serbian or whatever, and churches with a mix of people from everywhere. And if you're not one of those ethnicities it can be HARD. Especially if they all hang out together after church and speak to one another in a language you don't know. The key if you're Orthodox is to find a church where you're not the only person like you. Try to look for people who are kind of like you when you go to synagogue. Keep talking to your rabbi and to your friends in the congregation. Don't stop reaching out to them. They won't think you're defective--rabbis and priests are THERE to deal with large numbers of people and their daily lives. They know about human problems already, it's their JOB. They've probably seen it before. They're not going to think "this guy's defective," they're going to think "he's shy." Which is normal. But they have so little time on their hands that you have to be the one who makes contact. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 12:31
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Pellisworth posted:edit: although in hurried Upper Midwestern mumblings this quickly becomes: Upper Midwestern Catholic Mumblings are similar. "Blessus Lord forthagifts we'reabouta recievefromthybunty."
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Dec 13, 2018 12:33
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Overheard two children having a theological debate on the metro. Child A: Do you think there are dogs in Heaven? Child B: Yes! Everything is good in Heaven, there has to be dogs. Child A: But I don't like dogs... Child B after a lengthy silence: There aren't dogs in YOUR Heaven, they all live in MY Heaven!
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Dec 13, 2018 12:45
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HEY GUNS posted:What would we have become if we made concessions to modernity five hundred years ago 
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Dec 13, 2018 14:17
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Siivola posted:...Protestants? 
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Dec 13, 2018 14:49
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And all things considered, it worked out pretty well for the church. Not the Church, but the church that matters. 
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Dec 13, 2018 15:14
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Cythereal posted:And all things considered, it worked out pretty well for the church. Not the Church, but the church that matters. Eh, jury's still out.
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Dec 13, 2018 15:40
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Liquid Communism posted:Upper Midwestern Catholic Mumblings are similar. Silvola posted:
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Dec 13, 2018 15:57
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zonohedron posted:You joke, but HEY GUNS has related that in the time period he studies, a Lutheran service and a Catholic service were indistinguishable by the average mercenary. Arguably many of the differences between modern Catholicism and modern Orthodoxy arose from Catholics adjusting to the Protestants... so it's interesting to contemplate that not having happened. it was a more disorganized age https://journal.orthodoxwestblogs.com/2018/03/01/orthodox-and-catholics-in-the-seventeenth-century-schism-or-intercommunion/ edit: in the parallel universe where catholicism did not adjust to protestantism but the other way around, we'd have catholics, high anglicans/anglocatholics, lutherans as a german/scandi version of high anglicans, the bohemian bretheren and the utraquists in central europe, and a few salty calvinists in france, hungary, and the netherlands but according to a paper i recently read, dutch calvinists varied to what extent they got rid of sacred objects or spaces, so you'd end up with "catholic reformed" people there HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 16:08
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HEY GUNS posted:I tried to buy a pocket horologion but it got lost in the mail. This would also work as a line in a Douglas Adams book.
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Dec 13, 2018 20:03
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Jumping ahead from pages ago but frequent punch line Andy Williams will always own the definitive rendition of O Holy Night in my book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSJKFU2rTGE shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Dec 13, 2018 |
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Dec 13, 2018 22:45
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This question is probably dumb, but when Judas betrayed Jesus was he (Judas) supposed to have become disillusioned with Jesus' teachings? And come to the conclusion that he isn't the son of God? Otherwise what he did makes no sense to me. "I know you're the Messiah or whatever but I could really use the money"
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Dec 14, 2018 00:51
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I don't think it's a dumb question but it doesn't really have an answer either. As with most of the apostles very little is said about Judas. 95% of the focus is on Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, and James.
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Dec 14, 2018 01:18
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I like his motivation in Jesus Christ Superstar where he's becoming afraid of the increasing official attention and thinks they're heading for disaster.
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Dec 14, 2018 01:22
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Personally, I've always wondered if Judas didn't do what he did because Jesus asked him to, that what happened was necessary and Jesus knew it. I've heard that Coptics hold Pilate as a saint for the same reason, that Pilate had to condemn an innocent man to death because it was God's plan, and I wonder if the same holds true for Judas. How terribly that must have hurt, to seemingly betray Jesus Christ to his death because that is part of Jesus' plan.
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Dec 14, 2018 01:26
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think it's a dumb question but it doesn't really have an answer either. As with most of the apostles very little is said about Judas. 95% of the focus is on Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, and James. That is thoroughly unsatisfactory. I've always gotten a kick outta the way artists interpret Judas during the Last Supper:  Jesus: One of you will betray me Judas: .....I have to go now.
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Dec 14, 2018 01:31
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Cythereal posted:Personally, I've always wondered if Judas didn't do what he did because Jesus asked him to, that what happened was necessary and Jesus knew it. I've heard that Coptics hold Pilate as a saint for the same reason, that Pilate had to condemn an innocent man to death because it was God's plan, and I wonder if the same holds true for Judas. How terribly that must have hurt, to seemingly betray Jesus Christ to his death because that is part of Jesus' plan. This is similar to the Gnostic Gospel of Judas.
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Dec 14, 2018 01:35
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Yaws posted:This question is probably dumb, but when Judas betrayed Jesus was he (Judas) supposed to have become disillusioned with Jesus' teachings? And come to the conclusion that he isn't the son of God? Otherwise what he did makes no sense to me. Bp. Fulton Sheen makes the point that Judas expected the Messiah to be a bit more "cleanse the temple, drive out the Romans, reign for a thousand years" and became very disillusioned between Palm Sunday and Good Friday. I may dig a bit and see what Aquinas says about it.
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Dec 14, 2018 02:01
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The only reasons given for Judas's actions in the canonical gospels are in the Gospel of John, where he's called a thief, and the gospel of Luke, where we're told that Satan entered into him. Well, plus the money thing. People sell out other people for money all the time.
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Dec 14, 2018 02:03
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Worthleast posted:Bp. Fulton Sheen makes the point that Judas expected the Messiah to be a bit more "cleanse the temple, drive out the Romans, reign for a thousand years" and became very disillusioned between Palm Sunday and Good Friday. Seems like a pretty big conjecture. I like theories on Judas, but where’s the evidence? I wonder there is some early church legend re: Judas.
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Dec 14, 2018 02:05
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Yaws posted:This question is probably dumb, but when Judas betrayed Jesus was he (Judas) supposed to have become disillusioned with Jesus' teachings? And come to the conclusion that he isn't the son of God? Otherwise what he did makes no sense to me. One theory is that he believed that Jesus was the Messiah, was disillusioned with Jesus refusing to kick the Romans out, and attempted to engineer a situation where Jesus would have to call down an entire legion of angels to rescue him. Then Jesus didn't call down any angels at all, and even Peter denied knowing him, and his body was stabbed to be sure it was actually dead, and Judas thought he had caused the failure of God's plan, so, out of the sin of despair ("I have done something so awful that God could never ever forgive or fix it!") he committed suicide. (Alternately, he was just really greedy - at least one of the Gospels say that he was stealing from the disciples' collective money bag - and figured he'd pocket the 30 silver and Jesus would be fine anyway, given all the times he didn't die. He walked on water! He passed right through a crowd that wanted to throw him off a cliff near Nazareth! He went to Lazarus's tomb and mourned publicly and nobody did anything! So Judas committed the sin of presumption ("yeah, sure, it's wrong to sell out an innocent man, but God will make everything work out and anyway Jesus is always talking about forgiveness, right?") and then when everything seemed to have gotten wrong, presumption turned to despair, see above for how that went, the end.) Cythereal posted:Personally, I've always wondered if Judas didn't do what he did because Jesus asked him to, that what happened was necessary and Jesus knew it. I've heard that Coptics hold Pilate as a saint for the same reason, that Pilate had to condemn an innocent man to death because it was God's plan, and I wonder if the same holds true for Judas. How terribly that must have hurt, to seemingly betray Jesus Christ to his death because that is part of Jesus' plan. This suggests that Jesus instructed Judas to sin, though, and not like "yes, it's the Sabbath, but we're all starving, go ahead and pick the grain as we walk through this field" but more like "completely fail to show love for your teacher and friend by bringing armed men to arrest him", and, knowing that Judas was misusing the disciples' money anyway, put temptation in his path by making sure he'd have thirty pieces of silver obtained in secret. Pilate didn't have to condemn Jesus; maybe if he hadn't he'd have been removed and the next governor would have done it, or Herod might have had Jesus executed, or maybe the crowd would have been incited to stone him, who knows? If he's a saint it would be because he repented of what he did, perhaps because he saw how God took his unjust decision and turned it into something glorious, not because of what he did, right? (Similarly, it fulfilled prophecy for the soldiers to callously play a game to see who would win Jesus's tunic, but any of them could have decided they weren't going to gamble for a dying man's possessions right in front of said dying man.)
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Dec 14, 2018 02:06
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zonohedron posted:This suggests that Jesus instructed Judas to sin, though, I'm wondering if it wasn't a sin, though, and was merely recorded that way because the people who wrote the Gospels didn't talk to Judas - or perhaps did and didn't believe him. One big reason why I've never cared for Biblical literalism is that I was trained too well in history. The Bible is God's word, as understood and written by men, and the books of the Bible were assembled by men. Different denominations of Christianity have different books in the Bible, and I've always wondered what might be true but didn't make it in. Perhaps because the author of one of the books hated another of the Disciples and didn't talk to him, perhaps because what happened didn't fit the mores of the time, or perhaps was rejected from inclusion in the Bible because it preached something that didn't suit the morals or secular desires for power among the church leaders at the time. Not to mention how many times the Bible's been translated over the years. 
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Dec 14, 2018 02:12
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Judas betraying Jesus seems weird to us perhaps but so do any number of incidents in the Bible where people were confronted with the supernatural and still made bad decisions.
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Dec 14, 2018 02:17
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