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In the course of my world conquest game, I think I might've stumbled across a way to have a world republic so stable that even the AI could rule it, with functional elections and what have you. Might try to build it after the last patch comes out. Can you upload a save as a mod? It'd probably be pretty fun to play it as a vassal.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 04:08
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Volkerball posted:In the course of my world conquest game, I think I might've stumbled across a way to have a world republic so stable that even the AI could rule it, with functional elections and what have you. Might try to build it after the last patch comes out. Can you upload a save as a mod? It'd probably pretty fun to play it as a vassal. Well don't leave us hanging. Do tell 
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Dec 14, 2018 04:23
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Torrannor posted:Again, you should become their liege. I can see no reason why you wouldn't. Here you go: Bulgaria's still de jure part of the Byzantine Empire.  The king.  The claimant.  The conclusion.  I feel like there's an obvious explanation but I can't figure it out. The only non-bug possibility I can think of is that it doesn't work because she's a woman, or it doesn't work because Bulgaria holds land outside the de jure Byzantine Empire.
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Dec 14, 2018 06:34
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EDIT: loving should have posted this in the paradox thread.
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Dec 14, 2018 07:17
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GHOST_BUTT posted:Well don't leave us hanging. During the course of this game, I learned two key things. The first is that I could fit the entire world into my vassal limit more comfortably than I had predicted. As I currently have it built, it requires 25 superking vassals. Britannia isn't in my empire yet, but it can fit into one vassal kingdom, and Iceland goes in with the Scandinavian king. The darker spots are just revolts.  With every council law that empowers the council passed, having a vassal limit over 30 should be a given even with a lovely AI ruler with no diplomacy. 25+4 is less than that, which is huge. The second thing is that in the early 1000's at least, keeping your vassals in line as the emperor of the world is stupid easy with max military organization tech, which is stupid easy to get. I currently have a retinue of half a million men as the doge, but I have a massive trade network with all decked out trade posts. When an AI ruler inherits however, they still have a retinue cap in the hundreds of thousands without that network, which I think should be enough for them to build a retinue with enough to size to discourage any revolts. Meaning all 5 families could, after becoming emperor and maxing out their retinue cap, be able to inherit later on and avoid a revolt simply because their retinue is so big that all the world combined wouldn't be a match. Especially when you add in some of the vassal opinions boosts like Augustus into the equation, which I can link specifically to the empire level title. Think of a county like Venice. One county, one duchy, one kingdom. There's potentially 4 of them on the map. Gotland, Socotra, Venice, and the Isle of Man. If I exploit de jure drift so that, for example, all of Pictland de jure drifts into England except for the duchy for the the Isle of Man, Pictland becomes de facto the kingdom of the Isle of Man, so it's functionally just like Venice. I could make a fifth by modding Canarias or the Maldives, or maybe by dicking with titular duchies like Amalfi. So we have our non-doge patrician king of an island. He's got 0 vassals, one county title, one duchy title, and one king title. If he is elected emperor, he would now have 25 vassal kings plus the 4 other patrician family kingdoms. So long as he holds on to the kingdom title of his island, and doesn't give away his island county, when he dies, his heir will simply pick back up as the king and count of their island. Since he wasn't over the vassal limit, no superkings will become independent upon his death, meaning the next family can pick up seamlessly as emperor of the world. I would think this should be repeatable over and over. The only exception to this is that multiple patrician families could maybe team up to declare independence, and present the threat of revolts several hundred thousand men strong, but I'm not sure if they're allowed to do that. If they are, then that could certainly add some spice. The AI also likes to build trade posts around their other trade posts. So if I play as the king of the Isle of Man and build a couple trade posts there around Britannia, then for the rest of the game, they'll just kinda have free reign to build up their own network in their part of the world. Whenever the Isle of Man kingdom is their primary title, they'll get a connected to capital bonus, tons of tech growth and all those sorts of perks to strengthen themselves, so they should have plenty of money for mercenaries, elections, and retinues, which ultimately should help them keep a lid on things when they become emperors. I imagine it would end up leading to some pretty interesting dynamics between the families. For one, when one family has less trade posts than another, they can go to war to seize a post. If they have the option they pretty much always will. So if Gotland only has 30 trade posts and those greedy fucks in the Isle of Man have 32, you could see a goddamn world war over a basic trade post in Ulster. I'd also be curious to see how elections play out when all the families have hundreds of thousands of gold to throw at them. This is new territory for me, so I've got some stuff to figure out before I could do it, but I'm toying with the idea of doing a lets play where I spend the first couple hundred years building this empire, then flip it over to observe and let the AI do their thing. Then after it's all done, go back and write up the lets play from the perspective of a historian trying to get a read on what happened. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 07:48
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BBJoey posted:I feel like there's an obvious explanation but I can't figure it out. The only non-bug possibility I can think of is that it doesn't work because she's a woman, or it doesn't work because Bulgaria holds land outside the de jure Byzantine Empire. She's not a vassal of yours, she's just a courtier. If she owned actual territory with you as her liege, you'd be in control of Bulgaria, but since she didn't, she's independent now.
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Dec 14, 2018 08:21
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Veryslightlymad posted:She's not a vassal of yours, she's just a courtier. If she owned actual territory with you as her liege, you'd be in control of Bulgaria, but since she didn't, she's independent now. I thought that didn't matter if the title they were claiming was a dejure vassal. I.e. any title pressed for a dejure vassal should end up your defacto vassal, even if they are an unlanded courtier not of your bloodline.
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Dec 14, 2018 09:16
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Charlz Guybon posted:I thought that didn't matter if the title they were claiming was a dejure vassal. I.e. any title pressed for a dejure vassal should end up your defacto vassal, even if they are an unlanded courtier not of your bloodline. This is how it works for duchy claimant wars (eg start the alexiad bookmark and start a war for armenia minor). Is it different for kingdoms, maybe?
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Dec 14, 2018 10:01
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Veryslightlymad posted:She's not a vassal of yours, she's just a courtier. If she owned actual territory with you as her liege, you'd be in control of Bulgaria, but since she didn't, she's independent now. No, that's simply not true. I've loaded a game as a Byzantine Emperor, and invited a woman with a claim on Bulgaria to my court. When I try to press her claim, the tooltip says: quote:Claim Bulgaria And sure enough, when I press her claim and win the war, she becomes my vassal. And Bulgaria controls about two thirds of Wallachia, and a fourth of Hungary. So it doesn't matter that they hold land outside the Byzantine Empire. Bulgaria is a de jure part of the empire, and so they became my vassal. Which is the source of the confusion. If you press a landless courtier's claim on a title, they will become your vassal if they are of your dynasty, or if you are the de jure liege of the title they gain. If you press a landed vassal's claim to a title, you will remain their liege as long as their new title is of lower rank than your own. Which makes me not understand why BBJoey doesn't become the liege of the new Bulgarian queen when they press her claim. BBJoey posted:Here you go: This still makes no sense. I just tested it, and it worked for me. It must be a bug? The only difference between our two game states is that my save is at a low threat level, so Bulgaria wasn't in a defensive pact against me. But that shouldn't cause any differences? I'm at a loss to why this doesn't work for you. Can you give a screenshot of the tooltip when you hover over the "claim Bulgaria" option in the declare war menu? I simply can't explain what's wrong here, and would indeed chalk it up to a bug.
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Dec 14, 2018 10:33
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Two unrelated questions: 1) I noticed that a vassal had 100% warscore and sat on it for months. I forced the losing side (another vassal) to surrender to meet the primogeniture condition of no vassals being at war. Was this a bug? 2) I’m playing as the HRE and needed max centralisation for primogeniture. Now that I have it, can I drop to high centralisation for the extra vassals, or will this auto-change my succession laws?
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Dec 14, 2018 10:38
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snoremac posted:Two unrelated questions: It can make sense to sit on 100% warscore with certain CBs. For example where you personally gain every single holding you've sieged down, in contrast to just vassalizing the holders. Given that this was a conflict between vassals, I'm disinclined to believe that they used such a CB. I've noticed the AI sitting overly long on 100% warscore before, it seems like a bug. What CB was your vassal using? I've not tried this myself, but other similar laws don't change just because their requirements are no longer met. The Byzantine Empire starts with Imperial Administration even though it doesn't fulfill the requirements. And if you take another realm to Imperial Administration, and later empower the council again, it also doesn't invalidate IA. But I have no idea about the coding for princely elective in the HRE. If I had to guess, I would say that dropping centralization or empowering the council should not force you to change back ti princely elective. But it's just an educated guess. If you're on ironman, I won't take responsibility for anything going wrong 
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Dec 14, 2018 10:49
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Torrannor posted:This still makes no sense. I just tested it, and it worked for me. It must be a bug? The only difference between our two game states is that my save is at a low threat level, so Bulgaria wasn't in a defensive pact against me. But that shouldn't cause any differences? I'm at a loss to why this doesn't work for you. Can you give a screenshot of the tooltip when you hover over the "claim Bulgaria" option in the declare war menu? It's very bizarre indeed. I don't think it's the defensive pact, as I loaded the save and timed it so that Bulgaria wasn't in the defensive pact at the time of declaring war. Here's the tooltip, nothing out of the ordinary:  I'm only using graphical mods that don't affect the checksum, but in case somehow they were affecting things I turned them off - no change. Then I waited for the truce to run out and pressed the claim again - still independent. Then I tried pressing the (weak) claim of a man - and he became my vassal. Actually, now that I think of it, the woman with the strong claim is actually in the court of one of my vassals - could that be the issue, somehow?!
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Dec 14, 2018 11:17
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BBJoey posted:It's very bizarre indeed. I don't think it's the defensive pact, as I loaded the save and timed it so that Bulgaria wasn't in the defensive pact at the time of declaring war. Here's the tooltip, nothing out of the ordinary: Oh. Yes, that's very likely the issue. Invite her to your court first.
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Dec 14, 2018 11:21
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Torrannor posted:It can make sense to sit on 100% warscore with certain CBs. For example where you personally gain every single holding you've sieged down, in contrast to just vassalizing the holders. Given that this was a conflict between vassals, I'm disinclined to believe that they used such a CB. I've noticed the AI sitting overly long on 100% warscore before, it seems like a bug. What CB was your vassal using? Regarding primogeniture, I might just make do with less vassals rather than deal with those prince-elector jerks again.
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Dec 14, 2018 11:38
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Has anyone done a Hellenic revival playthrough yet? I'm going through one right now and it's rough. 1. How do you raise MA high enough to reform? I have three holy sites, but the only avenue for raising MA I see is county conquests (no way I can do 20 of those in enough time) or capturing other holy sites, one of which is held by the Pope. 2. Is there any way to get a secret society to do something if you're not a member? I (regrettably) declared my faith openly once I was elected to Emperor, which forced me out of the society. I've ruled as Emperor for at least 20 years and the society has done nothing other than recruit more members (presumably; I see a lot of "Sympathy for Pagans" traits in my realm). It would be nice if they declared now that, you know, the Emperor and his family are openly ruling as Hellenes, but... Also, has anyone else encountered a bug where your allies are hostile when they shouldn't be? Early on I was allied with a neighboring duchy, and I Holy Warred a nearby pagan province. My ally joined the fight and appeared as the typical blue stack, but they immediately began besieging my capital. I was forced to attack them. Later I tried to attach them to my army, and the ally stack moved towards me but stopped one province away and refused to attach. I checked their allegiances to see if they were somehow associated with my target, but they weren't. I'm almost 100% certain this is a bug but I've never encountered it before.
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Dec 14, 2018 13:25
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Capture Rome. The countdown to crusades has already started, since a non-Christian is holding the duchy of Thrace. The pope can hardly get more pissed off. And if you can't get the missing MA through county conquest, capture the last holy site in Egypt and call it a day. You can grant them independence after reforming if you feel like holding Alexandria would be a liability. Since hellenic pagans can't raid, it's difficult to get MA through other means  As the Byzantine Emperor, don't take temporal leadership when you reform. You won't keep both titles together under imperial elective, unless you always nominate your oldest son (and manage toget him elected).
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Dec 14, 2018 13:41
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What exactly does it mean when a bloodline gives your children the ability to prove themselves as mercenaries? Just that they can form mercenary companies?
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Dec 14, 2018 13:52
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Disillusionist posted:Has anyone done a Hellenic revival playthrough yet? I'm going through one right now and it's rough. yeah it's always gonna be 100x easier to just grab all 5 holy sites than to get MA to 50%+ before you reform. also no you hosed yourself the AI will literally never hit that "come into the open" button
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Dec 14, 2018 13:54
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Communist Walrus posted:What exactly does it mean when a bloodline gives your children the ability to prove themselves as mercenaries? Just that they can form mercenary companies? Yeah I'm pretty sure it's that. My guess is that it allows you to have your children lead mercenary companies even if they don't have a military education and you aren't a nomad.
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Dec 14, 2018 13:57
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Is tribal elective succession hosed up? I constantly get my vassals voting for someone else than my successor despite valuing him more. I have a guy voting for some rando with -10 points instead of my son with 90.
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Dec 14, 2018 14:33
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Disillusionist posted:Has anyone done a Hellenic revival playthrough yet? I'm going through one right now and it's rough.
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Dec 14, 2018 14:35
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I did and apart from the first Crusade it was pretty easy. I was Byzantium though. Basically you need to take Rome and Alexandria before you declare yourself fully Hellenic. Get as many vassals as you can into your secret cult, but the catch point is two things. You need all 5 holy sites so you can reform without worrying about your moral authority, and you need religious revocation enabled. Once you have all 5 holy sites you declare your true faith to the Gods then reform immediately. Once you do that, go through your vassals one by one and ask them to convert. If they're not 'true believers' they might need a bit of gold or an honorary title but they should say yes. If not wait them out, you are Byzantine, they should be viceroys. Once they die find a person who will convert and give them the title. You should be able to convert most of your dukes this way, and they will go ham revoking titles for you and converting the lands. Orthodox Moral Authority will completely and utterly implode so you should gain the momentum of a wrecking ball. I didn't take this step but if you also grab Jerusalem you can reform Christianity which will disable crusades.
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Dec 14, 2018 14:56
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Got all the dlcs for early christmas, playing as the karen for kicks. First king: holy wared the small Muslim power next to me, holy war to the nearby holy site cause they got wrecked and I could annex them before any Sunni neighbors got involved. Did a border conflict for Merv cause money solves everything. Then decided to take some empty nomad lands to my north. A terrible plan. Rip the even troops. Kings dies. Second king is an unhygenic goon who's focusing more on the hermetic society than expanding the relm, mostly because the region is frustratingly stable.
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Dec 14, 2018 18:39
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A mistake, much like my holy war for empty steppes
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Dec 14, 2018 18:41
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Why is there a Merovingian bloodline when it would require a whole bunch of fuckery to make it matter?
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Dec 14, 2018 18:59
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guns for tits posted:Why is there a Merovingian bloodline when it would require a whole bunch of fuckery to make it matter? the AI reinstates the Merovingians like half the time for me, it seems like if Charlie fucks anything up the AI likes to immediately start a giant claimant faction for the last Merovingian and oust him
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Dec 14, 2018 19:09
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guns for tits posted:Why is there a Merovingian bloodline when it would require a whole bunch of fuckery to make it matter? Because it takes a whole bunch of fuckery to make it happen so it better make it worth it
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Dec 14, 2018 19:44
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guns for tits posted:Why is there a Merovingian bloodline when it would require a whole bunch of fuckery to make it matter? The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Bideo James, The Funny Way to Say "Video Games" > Crusader Kings II: A whole bunch of fuckery
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Dec 14, 2018 21:23
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cock hero flux posted:the AI reinstates the Merovingians like half the time for me, it seems like if Charlie fucks anything up the AI likes to immediately start a giant claimant faction for the last Merovingian and oust him And then he died early, his only child and scion of the dynasty being a clubfooted, imbecile girl. That was only the second time.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:25
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Does anyone have experience waging a "Flower War"? When I reformed I picked the aniministic and bloodthirsty gods mechanic and I must agree it is fun to go FULL PAGAN and I founded the blood for the blood god (not sure what it is actually called) bloodline on without even knowing it existed due to constant raiding I always had a stock of 50+ prisoners to sacrifice if they werent worth ransoming meaning just lots of piety for blood. The prestige bonus for sacrificing counts and above can be pretty awesome with that bloodline. It has been a lot of fun just being in constant raid mode with a 6-8k retinue while waiting for threat to decline. I had one situation after a raid where I apparently captured what must have been the whole family line. Sacrificed 5 kids in a row for like 50 piety and 100 prestige each. Easy way to spend lives to improve holdings as tribal without too much of an overall dent on prestige. When you raid the pope tho I noticed a dramatic increase in assassination attempts and one finally got the ruler that established all my poo poo. If I flower war someone will that open them up as a more inviting target for my vassals? Kind of a passive way to expand?
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Dec 14, 2018 21:43
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so i just got this game and i’m on my fifth restart of ireland as i suss out how this game works. my goal once i’m actually functional is to take over western europe with a gay muslim horde. as a muslim it’s really nice to have representation at all, especially as something besides terrorists or merchants. what are my best strategies to gently caress up whitey? i want to try as many ways as possible to cause strife and chaos
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Dec 15, 2018 00:18
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EmbryoSteve posted:If I flower war someone will that open them up as a more inviting target for my vassals? Kind of a passive way to expand? In general I wouldn't say that bloodthirsty gods is particularly beneficial, though.
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Dec 15, 2018 00:34
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Strudel Man posted:I think it's probably more useful destabilizing large realms, since it basically drops the ruler's personal troop count to zero, making factions more likely to fire off demands. It is its own gimmick for sure but it is a fun way to liven up down time
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Dec 15, 2018 02:26
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Sky Shadowing posted:I did and apart from the first Crusade it was pretty easy. I was Byzantium though. I thought Hellenic didn't allow asking to convert? I'm playing as the Byzantines myself and I don't have that option.
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Dec 15, 2018 03:44
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Disillusionist posted:I thought Hellenic didn't allow asking to convert? I'm playing as the Byzantines myself and I don't have that option. Unreformed Hellenic doesn't allow asking to convert, just like any unreformed pagan religion. But once you reform, you can ask people to convert. Casual Encountess posted:so i just got this game and i’m on my fifth restart of ireland as i suss out how this game works. Muslims are quite powerful, as long as you manage your decadence. And the best way to mess with the Catholics is to just conquer their holy sites. The Muslims in Spain for example are pretty good for this. Hispania is a big empire, and conquering it won't unlock crusades. Once you've secured your power base, you can push into France. This will unlock crusades and Catholic holy orders, but once you've survived the first one, you can usually push back the Catholics more and more. Conquer France and Italy, then gobble up Germany and Britain. With that, you've basically won against them.
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Dec 15, 2018 04:29
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guns for tits posted:Why is there a Merovingian bloodline when it would require a whole bunch of fuckery to make it matter? Besides what people already said, there's a lot of stuff in the game that's there for historicity and such, like being able to trace back the various family trees and whatnot. The last Merovingian, like many little things in the game, was a little historical reference at one point, like there being a Zoroastrian province in India in the 1066 and later start dates to represent the Parsi population there. Then Holy Fury came out and added bloodlines, and between the history and legends of Marovech and Clovis being bloodline-worthy by the game's standards and how trying to do shenanigans with the last Merovingian was a thing for players already, I guess Paradox decided that he was an appropriate recipient of one. Besides, it's neat, and also doing a whole bunch of fuckery to accomplish your ridiculous goals is a key part of CK2 anyway. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 04:42
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drat, I had a ruler drink a potion and became a super lusty gay, and have an orgy in which half the participants (the female half) were suddenly impregnated. This game is awesome sometimes.
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Dec 15, 2018 06:56
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Pretty sure I'm gonna pull off a million man army. 
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Dec 15, 2018 09:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:Played about 25 more years of my Barcelona game. Fought an independence war against the French when their king was suspiciouly murdered (by who I'm not sure, not by me though) leaving my 12 year old nephew in charge. Won and declared myself King of Aragon immediately afterward. Had a local bishop do the honor. Then I helped a reconquista liberate northern Portugal. Then I conquered the duchy of Valencia and was able to crown myself king of Valencia since I had already conquered the Baleric islands. Then I put a distant kinsman of mine on the throne of Navarra. And a map The Kingdom of Aragon & Valencia 
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Dec 15, 2018 09:29
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Your guy will inevitably die shortly before the completion of the tenth castle.
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Dec 15, 2018 09:40
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