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Sentient Robots are extremely difficult to distinguish whether they are actually sentient at a glance, I had to peer at tooltips after getting the Synth tech and spotted the Happiness attribute to confirm if the tech was working. This seems inoptimal as if I take a planet with non-sentient robots with the same icon, I can't really tell them apart? I made them full citizens and the Continuum robots seems to like me now and are giving me free stuff. I also think in general, if there's an elaborate wiki I can search to find out what the non trap choices in events are then I think all events should give a tooltip as to what the actual effects are out of fairness to new players. Another issue about late-game sanity issues for me is that when you have hundreds of pops, it gets really difficult to really know whats what and your factions are all contradictory and provide basically no unity. When you have a dozen worlds unemployed pops are just too fiddly, and should more quickly emmigrate to other worlds, preferably I'd like to see actual in-game fleets of large slow moving civilian ships that transfer resources and people around, give pirates more oompf and give raiders more depth. Like "Oh this fleet is carrying 3 pops" and attack it to gain slaves or just to kill them depending on ethics (or free them if reverse).
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Dec 15, 2018 17:19
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A fully populated Ecumenopolis can consume more minerals per month than a Matter Decompressor can output.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:21
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Crime syndicates to the left of me, hegemonic imperialists to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:35
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Raenir Salazar posted:Sentient Robots are extremely difficult to distinguish whether they are actually sentient at a glance, I had to peer at tooltips after getting the Synth tech and spotted the Happiness attribute to confirm if the tech was working. This seems inoptimal as if I take a planet with non-sentient robots with the same icon, I can't really tell them apart? Also I somehow got this far without realising that Commercial Zones is like 5 jobs base  Well that's all my unemployment problems sorted.Request: I really like how when you build a new alloy factory etc. it groups with the others on your screen, but replacing a building seems to break this. I'd like a button to reorganise your building arrangements.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:38
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GunnerJ posted:I'm not exactly as down on the game as OwlFancier but I am wondering what I'm doing wrong as a player when my empire building feels so much more reactive. I feel like my brain isn't out of tiles mode enough to be able to plan out what I am doing. But buildings feel more constrained and more needed and I'm not really planning long term so much as building what I can to keep ahead of my immediate resource need. Meanwhile, they way people in this thread talk, there are obvious ways to specialize every planet and I just don't get it yet. What's the tempo of empire building in 2.2, is what I am doing OK for the early game but I'll figure it out as I go along? (I've been playing a lot of short games that don't develop long because I'm testing out mods, tbh, so that could be an issue certainly.) The flow I've developed is looking at my resources, seeing what I need more of, and then finding the nearest planet with max districts of that type. For second level resources like alloys or research, the max districts don't matter as much but it seems to work out well if you have a lot of city districts for housing.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:11
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Splicer posted:Most of them if you hover over a choice it tells you what you get. My OCD would love so much if building tiles were rearrangable by click+drag or just ordered alphabetically, etc. For some reason your starting world seems to organize in a specific manner most other planets don’t follow. I wonder if this code is partly in there and not done. Or maybe just list out the buildings and have a different open slot indicator, like most other 4x stuff. That would make it feel a lot less tile-y. Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 18:15
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What if we just got rid of the idea of building slots entirely? Just build whatever you like, whenever you like? There's already a compelling reason not to do this, ie: upkeep and creating too many jobs and pulling people away from the ones you want, so why not? It also gets rid of the annoyingly gamey pattern of moving pops around to unlock early building slots.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:28
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I few problems with 2.2 1. Zro sometimes just doesn't spawn at all in the game. A bunch of psy ascension techs are just locked because my large star system galaxy apparently has literally none of this resource. 2. Feudal society is just broken. It appears that vassalising an empire just completely paralyses it for the rest of the game. I've had multiple instances where my vassals/protectorates/tributaries literally cease building anything the moment they're taken and never expand even though there's plenty of spce for them. 3. There's a point where your empire will just necessarily end up having more living room than jobs and you can't expand any more. Meaning every single planet just accumulates unemployed people and you have to take a hit to unrest and influence because you played the game well. 4. Building upgrades feel like trap choices large amounts of the time due to their consumption of unique resources. Even where they aren't, because of the UI it's tremendously annoying to see if you're going to end up in negative unique resource consumption from their construction. 5. Even with mods to remove abstraction, the job system makes the effect of building districts or buildings on your empire obtuse at best. I feel like in its current form it's a lot less elegant overall than 2.1 was.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:28
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I actually really like that population basically keeps growing forever; it does give the sense that your control over your empire is less assured than it is in traditional 4X games. I assume if you just left an AI game to run by itself for over a thousand years by the end you'd have lots of one-colony empires as ever-growing pops exhaust all the resources and empires fall apart.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:35
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Mazz posted:My OCD would love so much if building tiles were rearrangable by click+drag or just ordered alphabetically, etc. For some reason your starting world seems to organize in a specific manner most other planets don’t follow. I wonder if this code is partly in there and not done. It bothers me because it's messy, but it also bothers me because it makes it much harder to at-a-glance what uniques I've built
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Dec 15, 2018 18:36
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Clarste posted:What if we just got rid of the idea of building slots entirely? Just build whatever you like, whenever you like? There's already a compelling reason not to do this, ie: upkeep and creating too many jobs and pulling people away from the ones you want, so why not? It also gets rid of the annoyingly gamey pattern of moving pops around to unlock early building slots. Yeah, I think getting rid of unlocking slots would be a good thing. Like you said, the job issue and upkeep already prevents you from going hog wild right off the bat. Treat buildings more like districts in that population numbers aren't a mysterious impediment to their construction.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:38
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Clarste posted:What if we just got rid of the idea of building slots entirely? Just build whatever you like, whenever you like? There's already a compelling reason not to do this, ie: upkeep and creating too many jobs and pulling people away from the ones you want, so why not? It also gets rid of the annoyingly gamey pattern of moving pops around to unlock early building slots.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:40
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Mister Bates posted:I hate that the Sectors menu closes every time you select a governor. With the new sector system, large empires might have dozens of sectors, and opening the menu, selecting a governor, then opening the menu again gets extremely tedious if you're trying to assign a bunch of governors at once. They also need to ditch the stupid "Birth of Space Piracy" event that spawns a pirate fleet somewhere random. Its just needless tedium that adds nothing interesting to the game. Give me an event about the birth of space piracy without spawning a fleet of ships and have it my trade income hard for a few months or until I deploy patrols. I'm just so loving tired of event spawned ships loving up my game at the worst possible time for no good reason. Also does anyone else get annoyed that I have to clear the icon at the top of my screen after diplomatic deals, anomaly pop-ups, and whatnot? If I agree to a trade deal / tell a scientist to research an anomaly the popup is dismissed but not the notification icon and I'm really tired of that too. Clarste posted:What if we just got rid of the idea of building slots entirely? Just build whatever you like, whenever you like? There's already a compelling reason not to do this, ie: upkeep and creating too many jobs and pulling people away from the ones you want, so why not? It also gets rid of the annoyingly gamey pattern of moving pops around to unlock early building slots. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 18:51
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Fixing the population controls policy to actually not let egalitarians move pops is sort of a disaster. Actual movement of actual pops is pretty essential in the new economy meta, immigration/emigration system really doesn't cut it for all the edge cases, hell I wouldn't even call them edge cases they're a bunch of extremely drat common cases. I don't care what fluff or costs they need to add, but they need to let us move pops again some how. Government encouraged pop movement absolutely happens in free democratic societies, the button could represent so many perfectly reasonable and ethical ways of politely and gently getting your pops to move around a bit for the greater good. Or maybe actually change the growing/assembling/declining system to better imitate pops moving from A to B rather than this way too abstracted pooled growth system. It shouldn't matter if this planet of 50 humans and 1 sand-bird has a +5 growth per month, that sand-bird's emigration pressure for being at 20% habitability should be looked at individually and the pop put into the declining box the moment a valid immigration target is found. So when you colonize a desert world that pop would see a desert immigration target in the system and the individual pop get a massive individual pressure to decline and transfer its growth points over to the new planet.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:04
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Baronjutter posted:Fixing the population controls policy to actually not let egalitarians move pops is sort of a disaster. Actual movement of actual pops is pretty essential in the new economy meta, immigration/emigration system really doesn't cut it for all the edge cases, hell I wouldn't even call them edge cases they're a bunch of extremely drat common cases. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 19:08
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 Can't put a starbase in this system because the Alpha Aliens have a starbase but I don't have an 'Investigate Alpha' in the situation log to make contact. When I click on the ? you get next to their base like you would with other uncontacted species to get taken the log it instead takes me to an unrelated precursor log entry.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:10
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Egalitarians have zero reason to move pops though? Unemployed pops will just push out a bunch of unity/science instead.uPen posted:
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Dec 15, 2018 19:11
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Baronjutter posted:Fixing the population controls policy to actually not let egalitarians move pops is sort of a disaster. I'm not sure what you mean, egalitarians can move pops.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:11
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turn off the TV posted:I'm not sure what you mean, egalitarians can move pops.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:14
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I really feel sorry for anyone trying to mod the game and do their own balance poo poo right now because it's so hard to tell what needs a balance pass and what is just bugged to gently caress based on the outcomes alone. For instance, I set the habitability threshold for immigration and growth to 100%, meaning any habitability below 100% for a species should be imposing an EXPONENTIAL penalty to the weight of that pop growing. In 2.1 this seemed to be working, but on the beta patch it seems to have stopped. I've got 10% hab pops growing like mad all over my empire despite maxing out ever variable possible in the game to supposedly disallow it. Which makes me think the whole growth system is currently bugged and entire weight categories aren't being properly calculated when picking which pop to grow. Reading through poor Glavius work, he's finding tons of problems like this then kludging together his own special scripts on top to try to force the AI and various game systems into behaving how they should, then paradox sort of fixes some so he has to throw out all that work and re-evaluate everything. I know we all want this game to be good asap but investing days and days into intense modding to try to fix obviously broken systems paradox will hopefully be fixing them selves very soon seems like a lot of wasted effort. Right now I'm sort of the mind to just shelve the game for a couple weeks, let the initial official patches and poo poo sort them selves out, then see what guys like Glavius can do with a more stable foundation.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:15
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Truga posted:Egalitarians have zero reason to move pops though? Unemployed pops will just push out a bunch of unity/science instead. Egalitarians have as much reason to pump 10 as everyone else who isn't gestalt. This could of course, be fixed by allowing spending more to have colony ships carry increased pops. Baronjutter posted:I really feel sorry for anyone trying to mod the game and do their own balance poo poo right now because it's so hard to tell what needs a balance pass and what is just bugged to gently caress based on the outcomes alone. For instance, I set the habitability threshold for immigration and growth to 100%, meaning any habitability below 100% for a species should be imposing an EXPONENTIAL penalty to the weight of that pop growing. In 2.1 this seemed to be working, but on the beta patch it seems to have stopped. I've got 10% hab pops growing like mad all over my empire despite maxing out ever variable possible in the game to supposedly disallow it. Which makes me think the whole growth system is currently bugged and entire weight categories aren't being properly calculated when picking which pop to grow. Yeah, I uninstalled it for the time being after a few games and attempting fixes of my own. This feels way too much like Divine Wind's launch, but thankfully, without the reputation indicating it will last for 4 months. I expect once the vacations are over we'll have a pretty quick response. StealthArcher fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 19:17
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Baronjutter posted:Right now I'm sort of the mind to just shelve the game for a couple weeks, let the initial official patches and poo poo sort them selves out, then see what guys like Glavius can do with a more stable foundation.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:18
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Just popping in for a quick update on the species pack; due to popular demand of one Steam user, I've made a version that will ALWAYS spawn the species from the pack into your game. As there are 90 dumbshit species here, you will probably never have a game with random empires, barring Fallen Empires maybe? ALWAYS AND FOREVER SPAWNING RANDOM SPAWNS HERE Thanks and...happy hunting?
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Dec 15, 2018 19:18
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Truga posted:Egalitarians have zero reason to move pops though? Unemployed pops will just push out a bunch of unity/science instead. Well just gonna wait till I have 7k fleet power and level the base I suppose, rip new features.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:19
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Just popping in for a quick update on the species pack; due to popular demand of one Steam user, I've made a version that will ALWAYS spawn the species from the pack into your game. As there are 90 dumbshit species here, you will probably never have a game with random empires, barring Fallen Empires maybe? If there are enough variants, you'll never even have random Fallens, I've choked out all the randoms in my stellaris loooong ago.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:They only have another week before they disappear for like three because xmas. 2018 release for 2.2 was a huge mistake. It needed more time in the oven and now it's just a bunch of frantic modders with hair driers trying to make the souffle rise while a bunch of hungry kids pick at bits of it saying it's not quite cooked but its edible...
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Dec 15, 2018 19:25
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Habitats are just an inefficient way to convert alloys into research and trade aren't they. As opposed to strategics that is.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:25
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Yeah habitats aren't really worthwhile ATM from my experience, the only reason I'm taking voidborn is to guarantee a way to get megastructures
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Dec 15, 2018 19:27
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Xarbala posted:Habitats are just an inefficient way to convert alloys into research and trade aren't they. As opposed to strategics that is. The stated official purpose of habitats is to just give you some more building slots to work with, which only gives habitats value in a system where building slots are so artificially limited to 16 despite planets getting into the hundreds of pops. If you use a mod that increases the number of building slots on planets, it makes habitats more and more worthless.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:28
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Yeah, the ban on forced resettlement really ought to just give much higher energy costs and maybe a small influence cost, representing the fact that you have to actually pay people shitloads of money to incentivize them to move. It'd mean that for egalitarians it won't pay to just transfer huge masses of people, but they can still surgically fix smaller screwups of the system like low-hab pops growing etc.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:30
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Guildencrantz posted:Yeah, the ban on forced resettlement really ought to just give much higher energy costs and maybe a small influence cost, representing the fact that you have to actually pay people shitloads of money to incentivize them to move. It'd mean that for egalitarians it won't pay to just transfer huge masses of people, but they can still surgically fix smaller screwups of the system like low-hab pops growing etc. Yeah make it like 200 energy and 20 influence or something. You'll never be doing it on a grand scale but the ability isn't entirely removed from your toolbox because it's a very useful tool.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:31
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Not on the beta patch they cant.  Just change your empire's policy to allow resettlement.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:32
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turn off the TV posted:
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Dec 15, 2018 19:32
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Can fanatic egalitarians even turn on forced resettlement? I literally don't remember
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Dec 15, 2018 19:33
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Natural 20 posted:I few problems with 2.2 1 - Zro spawns, it is just rare. I've found it in 2 games now. 2 - I haven't messed with feudal society in this patch, but hasn't it always been kind of finicky? 3 - When you first start running out of jobs is when you should be transitioning to upgraded buildings that pump out more jobs per slot. After you fill all of that you should either ship people out as they grow or turn off pop growth for that planet. 4 - They're not trap choices, they're expanding your job base but requiring you to take another step economically to do so. You either are going to trade or produce those rare resources, which costs energy or minerals. It is a way of making you advance your economy. Now instead of just 'minerals and consumer goods' your labs need 'minerals and consumer goods and gas', complicating your suppy chain. Heavily specialized resource planets often have spare building slots that you could allocate to fabricating rare resources. 5 - Personal opinion I guess. I enjoy interacting with this new system a *lot* more than the old tile system. I'd like to be able to customize alerts that pop up on the outliner, and I think that'd let people obsess less about checking their planets. Mayor Dave posted:Can fanatic egalitarians even turn on forced resettlement? I literally don't remember I don't think they used to be able to, dunno if they changed it. A drawback to balance out being able to have unemployed pops poo poo out a ton of useful resources.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:35
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Mayor Dave posted:Can fanatic egalitarians even turn on forced resettlement? I literally don't remember Yes. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Have fun dealing with your factions, then? This may just be me, but by the time I started worrying about having large numbers of unemployed pops I was way past the point where losing one point of a faction's approval would make a meaningful difference to my influence income.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:38
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Mayor Dave posted:Can fanatic egalitarians even turn on forced resettlement? I literally don't remember They can, and it only makes your progressive faction a little upset. They go from +10 to -10 happiness, which is, at the absolute most, a loss of 1.05 influence per month. That's a pretty fair tradeoff considering egalitarians get a bonus to influence from factions.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:44
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turn off the TV posted:This may just be me, but by the time I started worrying about having large numbers of unemployed pops I was way past the point where losing one point of a faction's approval would make a meaningful difference to my influence income.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:47
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Fair enough. I've had a terrible time managing factions with the patch. I am constantly getting Egalitarian Rabble factions that somehow have the highest faction draw despite me being Fanatic Authoritarian and really happy planets. I always run the +consumer goods trade setting and the living standards that prevent unemployed pops from becoming unhappy, so having 5-10 unemployed pops on a planet isn't too bad since they at least contribute something. I only ever felt the need to start resettling when I began rapidly developing metallurgist jobs on a ecumenopolis and needed to dump 20-30 pops into it in order to fill a bunch of newly empty clerk jobs. At that point pissing off my egalitarian faction didn't matter at all because I had ambitions unlocked and could get the +5 influence bonus.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:52
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Baronjutter posted:The stated official purpose of habitats is to just give you some more building slots to work with, which only gives habitats value in a system where building slots are so artificially limited to 16 despite planets getting into the hundreds of pops. If you use a mod that increases the number of building slots on planets, it makes habitats more and more worthless. With the gimped building selection, I guess this means they're just space refineries then.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:02
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