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Gaz-L posted:Cody still wrestles like he's in the dead spot in the second hour of Raw most of the time, and tries to make up for it by booking like a bad tribute band to his dad, which basically makes him Jeff Jarrett in TNA. He's very carry-able, but I think he got horribly exposed at All In, because he was the one having to do the heavy lifting and he couldn't even have a mediocre match with Aldis. Cody is the worst in-ring except for Marty but he is still far and away the best wrestler for the reasons you gave. I mean a lot of people think that Aldis match was good. (Kenny is probably better but I dislike him so I won't admit it)
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Dec 15, 2018 19:18
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Page is better even then though.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:28
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You're right Page is the best sorry.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:30
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Marty, Page, the Bucks and Omega are all better. Hell, 2/3 of SCU too, and I'm only saying that because I haven't seen enough of Sky to know for sure. And you can't say Cody's work ethic impresses you and then say the Bucks aren't equally dedicated to their gimmick and to putting in the effort.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:31
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Gaz-L posted:Everyone is aware that AEW is going to need either a major TV platform, or one of the big streaming services to not just carry them, but actually promote them. The assumption that they even go this far in the process of exiting ROH without even contacting or putting feelers out to TV networks for said promotion is bafflingly surprising. It’s been known to fans for months AEW is a thing, regardless of when the talent wanted to officially announce it. It’s like saying they haven’t thought to contact any arenas about events, even though we already know of multiple planned events for 2019
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Dec 15, 2018 19:32
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Gaz-L posted:Marty, Page, the Bucks and Omega are all better. Hell, 2/3 of SCU too, and I'm only saying that because I haven't seen enough of Sky to know for sure. They're dedicated and have great worth ethic and that's why theyre the best support that Cody has in the endeavours he's embarked upon.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:36
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Gaz-L posted:Cody still wrestles like he's in the dead spot in the second hour of Raw most of the time, and tries to make up for it by booking like a bad tribute band to his dad, which basically makes him Jeff Jarrett in TNA. He's very carry-able, but I think he got horribly exposed at All In, because he was the one having to do the heavy lifting and he couldn't even have a mediocre match with Aldis. Being unable to carry Aldis doesn't mean much, Aldis is loving terrible
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Dec 15, 2018 19:37
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Being unable to carry Aldis doesn't mean much, Aldis is loving terrible I wasn't expecting a classic. I was expecting not terrible. I didn't even get that. And yes, Aldis takes most of the blame, but there's a lot of hubris on Cody's part in making the match. (Plus, come on, like he couldn't have gotten Corgan to put the belt on, say, Flip a couple of months out?) and he shouldn't have done it if he didn't have a plan better than what happened.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:02
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So whenever people say "Okay yeah All In did well but booking something weekly is a lot different", all I can say is... Like... You do know that All In was the culmination of a bunch of storylines that were booked on a weekly show, right? The Bucks do have at least a little experience with that.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:30
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VJeff posted:So whenever people say "Okay yeah All In did well but booking something weekly is a lot different", all I can say is... I'm sure they can draw a decent number to a weekly show so I'm not arguing with you, but there is a difference between getting people to follow along with your weekly show on YouTube vs. getting them to show up to watch your wrestling show every week.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:34
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you gotta try
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Dec 15, 2018 20:40
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:I'm sure they can draw a decent number to a weekly show so I'm not arguing with you, but there is a difference between getting people to follow along with your weekly show on YouTube vs. getting them to show up to watch your wrestling show every week. You're right, it's definitely not 1:1 in a lot of ways. Saying, like, BTE is better than other shows at getting its people over is a pretty glib statement 'cause they're so different, but the Bucks clearly do understand the weekly format and how to build storylines and get people over in it, so I'm sure they'd be fine at that aspect of it at least.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:42
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I'm personally assuming AEW is aiming less to be its own mega promotion than to act as part of NJPW's expansion westward, an American promotion with American stars but also occasional New Japan guys that will likely have its events, maybe four big All In style cards a year, carried on World. Like Glory Pro but if people liked Elgin.
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Dec 15, 2018 20:43
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I Before E posted:I'm personally assuming AEW is aiming less to be its own mega promotion than to act as part of NJPW's expansion westward, an American promotion with American stars but also occasional New Japan guys that will likely have its events, maybe four big All In style cards a year, carried on World. Like Glory Pro but if people liked Elgin. I'm fine for this if it gets the Young Bucks to work the drat tournament. 
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Dec 15, 2018 20:47
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Adam Page is the only AEW guy I haven't heard gross stuff about or done sketchy poo poo
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Dec 15, 2018 20:53
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KungFu Grip posted:Adam Page is the only AEW guy I haven't heard gross stuff about or done sketchy poo poo He's a pro-wrestler, though? 
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Dec 15, 2018 21:05
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Gaz-L posted:He's a pro-wrestler, though? Excuse you, he's a teacher that moonlights as a pro wrestler. 
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Dec 15, 2018 21:11
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VJeff posted:Excuse you, he's a teacher that moonlights as a pro wrestler. Meaning he has something in common with Matt Striker. Which has gotta be worse than anything the rest of them have done.
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Dec 15, 2018 21:14
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Tomahawk posted:Lol foochs you give WWE a million chances week in and week out but you’re already naysaying a potentially competent competitor that will be a net good for the business regardless. No. I was typing out a long response to this and lost it so instead I'll just say stop being a gigantic rear end in a top hat and try actually reading what I've said. Thanks.
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Dec 15, 2018 22:05
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SamuraiFoochs posted:No. I was typing out a long response to this and lost it so instead I'll just say stop being a gigantic rear end in a top hat and try actually reading what I've said. Thanks. Respectfully, your point seems to be "you can't beat WWE, plus all indies are the same so why bother" (you've made it vaguely but exceedingly clear in the past that you only really watch WWE). If it is not, please elaborate and explain why trying to captilise on the grass roots popularity that let All In succeed isn't worth trying?
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Dec 15, 2018 22:09
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Gaz-L posted:Respectfully, your point seems to be "you can't beat WWE, plus all indies are the same so why bother" (you've made it vaguely but exceedingly clear in the past that you only really watch WWE). If it is not, please elaborate and explain why trying to captilise on the grass roots popularity that let All In succeed isn't worth trying? First of all I watch ROH and TNA literally weekly and I'd watch NJPW TV if I got AXS but I don't. I'm not signed up to Honor Club or GWN but that's a return on investment thing mostly, and NJPWW, well I've been over that a thousand times. With regards to the rest of it, I shouldn't have said it's dumb. That was overly reductive and a bad way to express my actual point which is more "It's dumb to think that in 2018 a startup has anything more than the faintest chance of becoming a competitor to WWE in any real sense". If they're just trying to basically get to the spot where ROH is now, that's one thing. I could easily see that. I guess the only reason I somewhat scoff at the idea is that I really get the vibe (and always have) that The Elite genuinely think "we scare Vince" and that "honest to God competitor to WWE" is where they'll get. And on the one hand you have to believe it to achieve it, they've done amazingly for themselves, and there are indicators left right and center that WWE tries to undermine them, I just think that people need to slow their roll just a bit. I'd happily be wrong because competition is good.
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Dec 15, 2018 22:25
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SamuraiFoochs posted:First of all I watch ROH and TNA literally weekly and I'd watch NJPW TV if I got AXS but I don't. I'm not signed up to Honor Club or GWN but that's a return on investment thing mostly, and NJPWW, well I've been over that a thousand times.
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Dec 15, 2018 22:36
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STONE COLD 64 posted:it's not so much "we scare wwe" as it is "wwe shouldnt be the only major promotion this side of the world". i wouldnt say wwe is scared but they absolutely do not want any company to get any kind of a foothold if they can help it. I agree. And if that's the way they approach it they'll be fine. That's when TNA was at their best as well. But the second they actually try to "take it to" WWE, well... that could end badly.
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Dec 15, 2018 22:42
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tna was literally "wwe is scared of us" to the point they had a fake vince and triple h show up on their show
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Dec 15, 2018 22:44
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I'm way more curious to see what kind of talent they pick up to fill out the roster (obviously they can't just do Bucks/SCU every week, though that'd be fine with me). Who are they plucking from the indie scene? Are there any other defections coming from ROH/New Japan? Will there be a mass exodus from WWE? (lol no, they'll get Neville'd if they try and they know it)
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Dec 15, 2018 23:07
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WWE is in the weakest spot it has been for years. I don't have a ton of hope the AEW will become the new WWE but this is the right time to do it. They shouldn't try to be a WWE killer but a good product with good production value with a decent TV deal would be some actual competition, a thing they have not seen in a long time. No matter what though they'll eat ROH's lunch if they can put on a product as good as ROH, pay as well as ROH, and don't make people sign exclusive contracts.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:08
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I would hope the Bucks and Cody know what got them over was doing Indy and New Japan style and use that for AEW instead of being WWE light but I welcome serious competition simply cause it'd be nice for people in NA to not make money from either Vince or Sinclair (both evil companies)
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Dec 15, 2018 23:10
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i have a really naive hope that they just have a working relationship with roh as opposed to being competitors
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Dec 15, 2018 23:25
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I also think there's a distinction between "growth" and "attacking WWE". ROH theoretically could keep growing if Sinclair were to open the pocketbook. The Elite have realised that that's never happening, so they're gonna take the shot themselves. I think they know that being anti-WWE is marketable, but I don't think the goal is "go live on Monday Nights opposite Raw" so much as "grow as big as our effort and talent will let us". And depending on how big that is, that COULD lead to competition for WWE. I will also apologise, Foochs. I genuinely had no idea you watched anything but WWE because I don't think I've ever really seen you talk about anything but their product. (Outside of the NJPW World stuff, which, honestly, I still don't understand)
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Dec 15, 2018 23:33
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That's fine. I don't really talk about the other stuff mostly because almost no one else does either and I haven't bought a non-WWE PPV since Final Battle a few years ago. Oh and I watch(ed?) Lucha Underground which is the non-WWE product I post the most about probably.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:41
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Anyway, it's a perfect microcosm of 2018 ROH that they just ran their biggest show of the year and the next day everybody's talking about a non-existent promotion instead.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:53
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Benne posted:Anyway, it's a perfect microcosm of 2018 ROH that they just ran their biggest show of the year and the next day everybody's talking about a non-existent promotion instead. If they don't want that maybe next time their main event and co-main event shouldn't be 50-66% "people with contracts expiring after the weekend"
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Dec 16, 2018 00:06
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I think AEW would do well(assuming everything lines up), if they tried to promote and present themselves as similar to comic-book inspired TV shows, like Arrow and them. Wrestling, specifically how The Elite and to a lesser extent New Japan have presented themselves, have a lot in common with those types of shows. Handsome, charismatic young men and women in colorful clothed involved in serialized long-term story arcs with weekly action scenes. If they can appeal to not just wrestling fans and lapsed wrestling fans, but to the broader mainstream-nerd-culture, and I think they could if they tried, they could at least be a Supernatural level success.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:07
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Benne posted:Anyway, it's a perfect microcosm of 2018 ROH that they just ran their biggest show of the year and the next day everybody's talking about a non-existent promotion instead. I'm interested in where they go in 2019, if they can recover from the roster turnover and the general direction and hope to gain some insight from the TV taping results but until they happen there's just not much to say. I'll have to seek out the Cobb/Page and ZSJ/Gresham matches but as it stands I just find it hard to justify giving money to Sinclair.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:12
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I agree. And if that's the way they approach it they'll be fine. That's when TNA was at their best as well. But the second they actually try to "take it to" WWE, well... that could end badly. I watched this really good Jericho interview on, I wanna say, Inside the Ropes, and basically he said WWE called him up to do the Oil Rumble and he was like "Nah." and then they offered him a  amount of money that he would've been stupid to turn down (and he wound up regretting taking the money anyway but that's neither here nor there). And when they offered him that money, he realized "Okay, you guys normally offer me this much [] and keep this much [-------] for yourselves, so if you're offering me this much [-------], how the gently caress much are you making for this."I think it's less about being The New WCW, like some very very very dumb wrestling fans think will happen, and more about, these guys looked at all the money WWE is getting from various revenue streams for some pretty uninspired content and they thought "Christ, I can get a piece of that." Lots of companies are throwing around big money for wrestling and MMA right now. The amount of money you can make from desperate TV companies is probably at its peak right now and the drawing power of this group of guys is probably also at its peak right now. If you wanna try and make some money starting something up, now's the time to do it. Can you get a billion dollars from FOX like WWE is? Probably not. Can you get some money from somebody who's looking at these deals and decides I wanna try this wrestling stuff on my channel too? poo poo, I think so.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:20
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Anyone who isn't buzzed about a new big indie fed needs to take a lap
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Dec 16, 2018 00:21
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Benne posted:Anyway, it's a perfect microcosm of 2018 ROH that they just ran their biggest show of the year and the next day everybody's talking about a non-existent promotion instead. dont forget that they sold out madison square garden with the promise of a lot of talent that just up and left
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Dec 16, 2018 00:25
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exploded mummy posted:dont forget that they sold out madison square garden with the promise of a lot of talent that just up and left The way scoopsman rovert said it, those guys could appear, just they'd be doing it for New Japan to keep their relationship with them solid.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:27
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exploded mummy posted:dont forget that they sold out madison square garden with the promise of a lot of talent that just up and left Ahem, I think you will find that the only people confirmed for the show when it was announced, and currently at this point, are quote:Already confirmed for this show from NJPW are Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi, and Tetsuya Naito, in addition to all of the top ROH Stars.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:28
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exploded mummy posted:dont forget that they sold out madison square garden with the promise of a lot of talent that just up and left Chris James 2 posted:Ahem, I think you will find that the only people confirmed for the show when it was announced, and currently at this point, are ^^^ This. Now, yes, a lot of people maybe bought tickets thinking the Elite would be there, but the companies never promoted anyone who won't be there.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:28
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