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Bear in mind that what most of the people in this thread feel isn't necessarily the image we, consciously or not, project to the rest of the world. As I see it, a person looking in at Canada sees what they want to see from the country, rather than the whole picture. I feel this happens because we do lack a homogenous identity and because so many different immigrant communities have settled here. The general sense of "canadian-ness" is only an extremely loose connecting thread, and for the most part people just do their own thing. Immigrants from other countries might come to Canada for similar reasons, but their reasons for staying can be quite different once they're here. And I'm fine with that. If it means we're the diet coke states without a solid cultural grounding, I don't mind so long as nobody starts killing each other for being different. That's why I'll settle for mediocrity and oppose the fuckers who would divide us. Sure I'd like things to get better and I'll try my best to make that happen, but a bunch of different groups doing their own thing while politely telling each other to gently caress off is better than cultural genocide.
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Dec 15, 2018 15:42
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Stickarts posted:I’d say Canada’s cultural identity still pivots around nature to a large extent. I probably most successfully am subsumed into whatever Canadian Zeitgeist when I’m hiking through Boreal forest or shooting rapids in a canoe through the shield, or snowshoeing or ice fishing or whatever. Shinny on a pond. And whatever Canadiana Stompin’’ Tom and the Hip tap into, a large part of that is relations to the land. Almost makes you forget our origins as a Colonial ethnostate. I've always seen this as an expression of Canada's history as a colonial ethnostate. It's about creating an autochthonous mythology, and an authentic connection between the settlers and the land. In the most extreme cases you get stuff like Anne of Green Gables, who I think works as a straight-up noble savage. Ian McKay's also got some great stuff about Nova Scotia creating a deep Scottish past, which involves creating a kind of ancient Scots-Canada who are authentically of the land. Even if all actually-existing Canadians are "fallen," in still creates an origin myth situated in the land. I think this myth is actually faltering a bit, for twofold reasons. One good, one... less so. The good one is that we're just more aware of FNMI history, FNMI present, and the two in the context of colonialism. Knowing this doesn't just delegitimize the autochthonous Canada narrative — it's always been a self-conscious mythology — but importantly shows it to be contingent. There is nothing necessary to the way Canada is, who its people are, and is relation to territory. And because of the weird way these mythologies work, if there's nothing necessary then there's nothing authentic. The less good one is the growth of the Conservative effort to put Canada's "authentic" origins in the first world war. As much as it picks up from Pierre Berton's basically-fictional sop that it was good ol' farm boys coming from all across the country and uniting for the first time, it's a national origin that doesn't have much use for the relation between Canada and nature. Canadians are nature-hardened farm boys, but it's reframed as a question of lower-class authenticity in contrast to British poshness. This can in turn be tied back to those big discussions we had a few months back and war worship and Canadian national identity. If we're still talking about the difference between Canada and the US, though, there's still a pretty big difference in frontier mythology. Even if Canadians are no longer autochthonous*, nature is still there are as unchanging variable. It's something that you learn to survive within. Settlement and moving westward was a question of learning to adapt to a world that was greater than you. The American mythology is about being superior to the land — "taming the west" is a term that shows up often. So they have Ethan Edwards, we have Anne Shirley. They have Narrative of the Perilous Adventures, Miraculous Escapes and Sufferings of Rev. James W. Parker, we have Bear. Americans tame nature. We gently caress it. *As I write this there is probably something interesting to say about a particularly liberal (or Liberal) approach to reconciliation. The idea being to take indigenous peoples, make them internal to Canada, and thereby restore Canada's autochthonous legitimacy.
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Dec 15, 2018 16:13
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Hand Knit posted:we have Bear. Why? Why would you bring this up in front of the guests? e: Bearfucking aside, 15 hours in #OnPoli. Again, this is what the Ford mayoralty was like for Toronto, but now it's the whole province. Enjoy, because it doesn't slow down. Ever. And on the subject of Canadian culture, here's what we've done to the Indigenous Culture Fund infernal machines fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 16:18
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Hand Knit posted:Americans tame nature. We gently caress it. We could call it assimilation, that has a nice ring to it!
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Dec 15, 2018 16:39
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Sikh fragility is off the charts this week https://twitter.com/CBCTerry/status/1073811066537177088
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Dec 15, 2018 16:42
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Oh good another piping hot "context is irrelevant" take from a white guy about how specifically identifying a minority group in a negative context is the same as saying "white people".
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Dec 15, 2018 16:47
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Terry will not loving stop beating that drum until all Sikhs in the world walk up to his front door to personally apologize for the Air India bombing.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:01
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how come no one ever brings up The Arrogant Worms when we talk about Canadiana? Considering all the poking fun at ourselves we do in this thread, you'd think we'd be citing lyrics from "Rocks and Trees" and "Canada's Really Big" more often.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:04
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If the Thunder Bay stuff is related to the podcast by more than coincidence, that would change the game. They crowdfunded 5 episodes and did more than years and years and years of fruitless activism from others. Maybe there will be diminishing returns, but my rationalizing, retroactive explanation is that podcasts have a low barrier to entry and wide distribution, which lets individuals and small studios put a magnifying glass on the bullshit in their community that would otherwise go unnoticed.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:08
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Aces High posted:how come no one ever brings up The Arrogant Worms when we talk about Canadiana? Considering all the poking fun at ourselves we do in this thread, you'd think we'd be citing lyrics from "Rocks and Trees" and "Canada's Really Big" more often. I honestly have no idea how popular they are and have no idea in any instance whether or not a related joke will fall flat or not.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:51
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Jokes about Canadian identity are better when they fall flat.
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Dec 15, 2018 17:52
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For all my issues with the failures of liberal representative democracy one of the silver linings of our system is that you can occasionally publish journalism that genuinely makes people in power look terrible and forces at least the occasional change, even if it's never going to be nearly enough change to address the problems. It's at least an improvement over the places where they simply kill the journalist.
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Dec 15, 2018 18:22
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kinda dig that canadian culture is an ever-evolving and malleable identity. it just is what you want it to be. hockey and racism? you do you. granola mom with some free range kids she drags up to lynn valley every weekend and who signs her emails namaste? hell yea. sikhs on a motorbike with a rocker patch that reads 'khalistan!', fuckin' eh. the alternative is wearing some poo poo that's been out of style for three or four hundred years ago, maybe even longer, and doing some dipshit dance while pretending that anyone loving cares or finds it cool. seriously, 'five thousand years of civilization' and the best you can come up with is chinese opera? cultural identity of that sort is just a prison. keep the parts you want, chuck out the parts you don't, appropriate some cool poo poo and staple it on to what you're doing 'til it feels right.
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Dec 15, 2018 19:03
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infernal machines posted:Why? Why would you bring this up in front of the guests? Bear won the GG. It should be on the mantle next to the Cup. We should be handing out free copies to every immigrant. "here's what Canada fucks"
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Dec 15, 2018 20:38
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jfood posted:kinda dig that canadian culture is an ever-evolving and malleable identity. it just is what you want it to be. hockey and racism? you do you. granola mom with some free range kids she drags up to lynn valley every weekend and who signs her emails namaste? hell yea. sikhs on a motorbike with a rocker patch that reads 'khalistan!', fuckin' eh. the alternative is wearing some poo poo that's been out of style for three or four hundred years ago, maybe even longer, and doing some dipshit dance while pretending that anyone loving cares or finds it cool. seriously, 'five thousand years of civilization' and the best you can come up with is chinese opera? cultural identity of that sort is just a prison. jfood for pm
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Dec 15, 2018 20:40
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Terry Milewski, retire bitch
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Dec 15, 2018 21:48
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Terry all it would take to not look racist is ask Jason Kenny or John Horgan how they feel about Irish cdns who supported the IRA, do you not care about balance
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Dec 15, 2018 22:14
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https://twitter.com/GarnettGenuis/status/1073308250844643328?s=19 Terry has the debate skills of a fifth grader.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:28
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I thought Jagmeet's answer on the Parmar question was stunningly bad and it really made me question his political abilities and the preparedness of his staffers that he walked into that interview blind, but god drat is our media ever selective about what terrorism it cares about. Our foreign minister says the greatest political influence in her life was her Nazi collaborating grandfather who edited a newspaper in Krakow that was printed on a press confiscated from a murdered Jew. This paper ran advertisements for recruitment into the SS and under his editorship the paper boasted about ethnically cleansing the Jews from the city. She was aware of this since at least the 1990s but still praises her grandfather and has cited him in numerous interviews as the biggest influence on her politics and the man in her life who best understood Ukraine and how to defend it. Now as foreign minister she oversees our relationship with the Ukrainian government, whose armed military forces include openly Nazi units. We're even hearing about how neo nazis from around the world including from Canada are traveling to Ukraine to fight with the Nazis and learn from them. Somehow I doubt CTV is going to be pressing Freeland on this issue or asking her to condemn Ukrainian extremism or implying that her ethnic background makes her unduly sympathetic to these monsters.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:37
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Baronjutter posted:Helsing I want you to write the next Rifts: Canada sourcebook. I know I’m late but holy poo poo these own.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:42
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Helsing posted:I thought Jagmeet's answer on the Parmar question was stunningly bad and it really made me question his political abilities and the preparedness of his staffers that he walked into that interview blind, but god drat is our media ever selective about what terrorism it cares about. I was surprised how much poo poo you got ITT the first time you brought this up.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:47
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'but he was coerced! sometimes you just gotta be a nazi to put food on the table.' dark times, yo.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:49
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infernal machines posted:I was surprised how much poo poo you got ITT the first time you brought this up.  Anyways I still don't really get why anyone cares about anything Singh says about anything in particular at this point. He only cares about this particular thing because he's also Sikh, not because he's a good person or actually gives a poo poo about the media's biases in general.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:53
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At this point we pretty much have to wait out the clock on Jagmeet and hope the party doesn't poo poo the bed next time around. It's part of why I have way more optimism for the US than Canada. At least the DSA is growing and having some meaningful successes in the US. Best we can hope for is Singh goes down in flames in Burnaby South and we get to try again.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:54
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there's no one worthwhile to take the torch and the whole core is kinda rotten at this point. legacy fail-daughters and the kinds of assholes who'd quote proust at you in french are the most uninspiring people.
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Dec 15, 2018 23:58
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Nobody'd even be thinking about sikh extremism if sikhs hadn't started streisanding at the top of their lungs. What's the end game, The Liberal says "fine jesus christ you people are extremely persistent" and removes the reference in the report that 6 people read.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:01
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I know this is a nuclear hot take but I've always kind of felt like the racism of low expectations caused people to really grade Jagmeet on a curve during the whole heckler incident. There was nothing particularly impressive about that moment but people desperately wanted it to be impressive. It's not that he didn't respond in the right way, because he did. But he's a trained lawyer and parliamentarian holding a microphone, with a very sympathetic audience, facing off against an obviously crazy woman who seemed so unhinged that people initially speculated she might be a plant. I just couldn't ever understand why people seemed to impressed by him doing the obvious play and drowning the heckler out with feel good pablum about multiculturalism. The fact he handled the situation well didn't demonstrate any incredible political skill it just established that baseline level of confidence and improvisation that is the necessary but not sufficient character trait of a would be national political leader. Watching any fleeting discussion of policy or the direction of the party evaporate the second Jagmeet got heckled was unbelievably depressing. Everyone in the NDP (all ten of us) thinking he's the next Obama because he managed to come out of an interaction with a crazy woman not looking any worse for wear. The fact that it caused people to look past his huge weaknesses, not least of all the fact I've never met anyone else this side of GOB Bluth who liked talking more about his expensive suits, is such a stark condemnation of the NDP party membership that I have spent years on this forum defending. infernal machines posted:I was surprised how much poo poo you got ITT the first time you brought this up. Me too honestly. Still one of the weirdest forum interactions I've ever had here. I would never have guessed how many people were willing to openly defend high level collaboration with Nazis.
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Dec 16, 2018 00:16
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jfood posted:there's no one worthwhile to take the torch and the whole core is kinda rotten at this point. legacy fail-daughters and the kinds of assholes who'd quote proust at you in french are the most uninspiring people. How about Svend Robinson?
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Dec 16, 2018 00:20
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Postess with the Mostest posted:sikhs ... you people 
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Dec 16, 2018 00:34
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https://twitter.com/omarmosleh/status/1074036850346479616?s=21
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Dec 16, 2018 01:02
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https://twitter.com/OmarMosleh/status/1074042542440669185 and people said we have no culture.
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Dec 16, 2018 01:05
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Helsing posted:I thought Jagmeet's answer on the Parmar question was stunningly bad and it really made me question his political abilities and the preparedness of his staffers that he walked into that interview blind, but god drat is our media ever selective about what terrorism it cares about.
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Dec 16, 2018 01:11
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I'm sure it's fine. https://twitter.com/OmarMosleh/status/1074045670573539328
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Dec 16, 2018 01:33
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James Baud posted:Hey hey, look who's almost back! thehoodie posted:How about Svend Robinson? Well, given it's two months later and he's renewed his media push, I think it's for real. Can't see him losing the nomination battle in his home riding of 25 years when there's no incumbent, no matter how much the demographics have changed.
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Dec 16, 2018 01:37
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Leofish posted:I'm sure it's fine. You know, because people who aren't racists are constantly having to reassure people they aren't racist. Because all the things they keep doing might come off as extremely racist if they didn't clarify. That's how a nice, non-racist person behaves.
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Dec 16, 2018 01:39
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thehoodie posted:How about Svend Robinson? running zombies is anti-romeroism and the party really needs to start embracing the teachings of comrade george if it wants to get back to healthy.
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Dec 16, 2018 02:37
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Leofish posted:I'm sure it's fine. "Also, they tell me they're not racists." "OPEN BORDERS BREED CHAOS"
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Dec 16, 2018 02:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:"Also, they tell me they're not racists." "I'm not racist, I just have common cause with racists."
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Dec 16, 2018 02:52
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Arcsquad12 posted:"Also, they tell me they're not racists."  Someone's getting this as an AV
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Dec 16, 2018 03:03
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infernal machines posted:
Oh Please?
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Dec 16, 2018 03:07
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