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Red John posted:Anyone who’s justifying the garrottings is a bad person Worst post / username combo in history
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Dec 16, 2018 10:15
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JT Jag posted:This entire situation only went bad when the socialists decided to make their country international pariahs by forgetting about diplomacy altogether It started going bad when we elected the Royalists for a term and they founded the SGA, which has been a constant thorn in the side of the peaceful practice of politics in Al Andalus ever since.
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Dec 16, 2018 10:27
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Reveilled posted:It started going bad when we elected the Royalists for a term and they founded the SGA, which has been a constant thorn in the side of the peaceful practice of politics in Al Andalus ever since. yeah, let's not confuse that it was the SGA who made peaceful reform impossible when they assassinated half a dozen reform socialist chancellors.
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Dec 16, 2018 10:51
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Red John posted:Anyone who’s justifying the garrottings is a bad person Normally I'd agree, but considering it was the Majli that got garroted I can find it in me to turn a blind eye.
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Dec 16, 2018 12:42
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Man, Al-Andalus just can't seem to catch a break, can it?
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Dec 16, 2018 12:51
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RA Rx3 posted:The Rais wouldn't have been much less worse than Maz Mazin, it's true. Peaceful reform definitely would have happened, as proven by the long and successful history of peaceful reform before the civil war. "Surely this time it'll work!" I say, as the SGA murders their 928th Grand Vizier for the crime of saying "maybe the Portuguese are people too" or "maybe we shouldn't be shoveling 12 year olds into the Orphan Flensing Machines."
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Dec 16, 2018 12:54
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Yeah, I do honestly think it was the SGA that hosed us over. I mean, I assume Hashim put in some sort of higher assassination chance for Viziers or something along those lines after we founded the SGA, because otherwise we've just been hosed over by RNG and that's not much that can be complained about.
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Dec 16, 2018 13:45
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JT Jag posted:This entire situation only went bad when the socialists decided to make their country international pariahs by forgetting about diplomacy altogether To be fair, that's what Hashim told us they would do. No party in Al-Andalus has ever done stuff that another party would do, as the figured out modern politics in the 1400's.
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Dec 16, 2018 14:05
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"The lesser evil of fascism" - goons
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Dec 16, 2018 14:08
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Casually kill millions and pretend it's the lesser of two evils Goons never change
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Dec 16, 2018 14:32
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Agreed, the party that came out of a reactionary secret police that used political assassinations to stifle any peaceful road to socialism would certainly have had a more forgiving attitude towards the socialist rebellion, its followers, and anyone else who presented even the hint of resistance. Good call, lol.
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Dec 16, 2018 14:51
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It's rather sickening that some people even cheer on pretend facism in this day and age
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Dec 16, 2018 14:55
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*goon watches an unending column of soldiers from france march through with the explicit goal of putting a puppet in charge for no real reason* THE COMMUNISTS DID THIS
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Dec 16, 2018 15:01
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Like, all this pseudo-RP gettin' big mad online about pretend politics kayfabe aside, everything that's happening in Iberia right now is wretched and no one should want an outcome like that. However. The idea that the actual fascist movement that used political assassinations to secure its rise to power would have been a lesser evil is just so nonsensical it's like, lol take a break and rethink this, please.
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Dec 16, 2018 15:02
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And the party that fomented dissent, preached violent revolution and wanted a deeply unfair, totalitarian state wherein you had no rights whatsoever gets a free pass?
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Dec 16, 2018 15:11
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Just a heads up to thread peoples: before responding, I suggest you take a good look at the rap sheet of the guy you are posting at.
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Dec 16, 2018 15:14
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 B-b-b-b-b-but the communists killed people too E: haha beaten
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Dec 16, 2018 15:14
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Dance Officer posted:And the party that fomented dissent, preached violent revolution and wanted a deeply unfair, totalitarian state wherein you had no rights whatsoever gets a free pass? Yeah man the fascists really were terrible, good thing we overthrew them
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Dec 16, 2018 15:15
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Dance Officer posted:And the party that fomented dissent, preached violent revolution and wanted a deeply unfair, totalitarian state wherein you had no rights whatsoever gets a free pass? ??? weve been making fun of the fash for a while now
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Dec 16, 2018 15:16
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Dance Officer posted:And the party that fomented dissent, preached violent revolution and wanted a deeply unfair, totalitarian state wherein you had no rights whatsoever gets a free pass? GunnerJ posted:...everything that's happening in Iberia right now is wretched and no one should want an outcome like that. 
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Dec 16, 2018 15:17
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Alright guys, let's calm down a bit. Al Andalus is communist now, and even though we've got a dictator, that doesn't mean things can't change in the future. The reason everything is wretched atm is simply because we've had a string of assassinations, violent revolution, civil war and the Great War all following each other without break. Not exactly the best time for democratic elections, is it? No government or ideology is going to survive all of that with their ideals intact, and especially not ours, where aristocratic privilege and class tensions were still going strong into the 1910s. With all that said though, I will also add that ending up with fascists in charge definitely wouldn't have made things better, not by a long shot. They came to power through a bloody coup, in case you're forgetting, and they would've been just as totalitarian and violent, except with the Majlis still empowered (and who wants that?). At the end of the day though, this is just a game, so let's treat it like one. It's really not worth getting emotional or angry over, if that's how anyone's feeling right now.
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Dec 16, 2018 15:24
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Hashim posted:Alright guys, let's calm down a bit. Al Andalus is communist now, and even though we've got a dictator, that doesn't mean things can't change in the future. The reason everything is wretched atm is simply because we've had a string of assassinations, violent revolution, civil war and the Great War all following each other without break. Not exactly the best time for democratic elections, is it? No government or ideology is going to survive all of that with their ideals intact, and especially not ours, where aristocratic privilege and class tensions were still going strong into the 1910s. The revolution will be crushed by next Christmas anyway, so it’s all good
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Dec 16, 2018 15:34
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Red John posted:The revolution will be crushed by next Christmas anyway, so it’s all good That's the spirit!
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Dec 16, 2018 15:38
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Hashim posted:the Majlis still empowered (and who wants that?) I do, representing the Farihids around the world! But the fascists can gently caress off.
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Dec 16, 2018 16:03
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Yeah if we had to lay the fate of Al-Andalus at anyone's feet over the last several decades, it's hands down the SGA who brought us to this point.
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Dec 16, 2018 17:13
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We really got screwed by the RNG multiple times over the course of this LP. For instance, we could have gotten a liberal sultan or kept our alliance with the French, but of course, Al Andalus is cursed.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:06
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I will say that weighing between the two options is kinda nebulous because unless Hashim feels like doing an atrocity writeup (which itself would be uncomfortable), all the atrocities are wholly theoretical. Except for the mass murder of nobility.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:14
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SlothfulCobra posted:all the atrocities are wholly theoretical. Except for the mass murder of nobility. Don't forget the butchering the Congolese for not meeting our imperialist quotas! 
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Dec 16, 2018 18:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:I will say that weighing between the two options is kinda nebulous because unless Hashim feels like doing an atrocity writeup (which itself would be uncomfortable), all the atrocities are wholly theoretical. Except for the mass murder of nobility. Yeah I'm trying to avoid anything like that unless there's an event specifically about it (like Heart of Darkness here, or the slave trade in EU4). The garrotting of the nobles was just a bit of fun, because it was goons who were being executed at the stake.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:38
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garrotting was a good pull because it's historical and realistic but didn't happen to make the kind of showing in politics that gets it a fan club. it would've been less in-your-face if it was 'just' the guillotine i think, we've got cute little emoticons and poo poo for that please nobody make a cute garrotting emoticon anyway we weren't allowed to have anyone, including the socialists, be a 'the obvious optimal choice' party at any stage. everybody had huge weak points. that meant every time we made a choice we also made a mess. hence the this. i think it ends up being fairly history-like. it has historicity. it's historicic? i get the impression it was the silly lovely in-game problem of not being able to make reforms when your country is stable or whatever that actually took us off the pattern we might have expected of 'vote for trains and imperialism, get some literacy along the way'. i think maybe modding in reforms would've been more 'historicic' than letting the country fall 100 years behind because it was never allowed to enact trinket health care or w/e. however, i don't know the game oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 18:46
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my take on this regime is that it, being heavily based in the outlying regions, is probably going to have quite a lot of christians and minorities in positions of power. this will likely serve to further alienate the sunni andalusi majority. the regime will attempt to use some sort of soviet-style internationalism to alleviate this, attempting to shortcut religious and ethnic loyalties to subordinate them to class loyalty. probably the massacres of the majilis were part of that, but they're going to have to be very careful about inflaming ethnic tensions and empowering whatever loyalist remnants the fascists have lying about, particularly with the regime being as weak as it is. i mean, make no mistake, they're probably not big on stuff like "human rights" or even "basic autonomy", but at this point they really are dependent on some level of popular support and are probably mobilising like crazy to defend the revolution/holy al-andalus from the perfiious bourgeoisie/the loving morrocans
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Dec 16, 2018 18:56
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oystertoadfish posted:garrotting was a good pull because it's historical and realistic but didn't happen to make the kind of showing in politics that gets it a fan club. it would've been less in-your-face if it was 'just' the guillotine i think, we've got cute little emoticons and poo poo for that yeah i mean this is the game that has socialist governments unable to lift the ban on socialist trade unions because it's a political reform and they can't mobilise their party for it it's not perfect
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Dec 16, 2018 19:00
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If only someone could convince Paradox's investors to make a Victoria 3 game these problems could be mitigated.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:03
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In my opinion one of the great mysteries of our time. Why hasn't paradox made Vicky 3 yet, despite the obvious audience it has?
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Dec 16, 2018 20:21
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V. Illych L. posted:my take on this regime is that it, being heavily based in the outlying regions, is probably going to have quite a lot of christians and minorities in positions of power. this will likely serve to further alienate the sunni andalusi majority. the regime will attempt to use some sort of soviet-style internationalism to alleviate this, attempting to shortcut religious and ethnic loyalties to subordinate them to class loyalty. probably the massacres of the majilis were part of that, but they're going to have to be very careful about inflaming ethnic tensions and empowering whatever loyalist remnants the fascists have lying about, particularly with the regime being as weak as it is. imagining the climax from the 1936 soviet film "Circus" but for the iberian union. (the movie is about an american actress who is run out of her home country for having a black child* and finds a home among the welcoming, international people of the soviet union. the climax has the circus's audience, each member representing a different ethnicity within the ussr, sing a verse of a lullaby** to help her baby sleep. the film was meant to help citizens of the soviet union feel pride about their country's complex ethnic and cultural tapestry, showing how a people from a variety of backgrounds could come together through common humanistic values) * she is also blackmailed by her german agent, who looks suspiciously like hitler. * the movie originally included several verses in yiddish that were censored by stalin
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Dec 16, 2018 20:41
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Dance Officer posted:In my opinion one of the great mysteries of our time. The audience is a loud minority. Victoria is a moderately complex series (for paradox) that’s not the easiest to get into, and paradox would have to choose between continuing their trend of simplifying games, or take a risk and hope that a new complex game can satisfy the Victoria audience, as well as drawing newer players in. So I doubt it’s a wise business decision from them. Plus, I guarantee you the Victoria playerbase will never be satisfied. Kinda would like to see the immense salt if they added mana, though.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:46
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Red John posted:The audience is a loud minority. Victoria is a moderately complex series (for paradox) that’s not the easiest to get into, and paradox would have to choose between continuing their trend of simplifying games, or take a risk and hope that a new complex game can satisfy the Victoria audience, as well as drawing newer players in. So I doubt it’s a wise business decision from them. Depends what the Mana is used for. If it's for big sweeping things it's bad, if it's for something's ng where the change only affects pop parameters it's in the spirit of Vicky and thus good
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Dec 16, 2018 20:54
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I'd rather have mana, focus trees and mission trees over broken mechanics and an economic system that no one at Paradox knows how it works. EDIT: With how much money I've spent on CK2 I do not want to have to repurchase the ability to play as not Christians again. GenderSelectScreen fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 20:57
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Red John posted:The audience is a loud minority. Victoria is a moderately complex series (for paradox) that’s not the easiest to get into, and paradox would have to choose between continuing their trend of simplifying games, or take a risk and hope that a new complex game can satisfy the Victoria audience, as well as drawing newer players in. So I doubt it’s a wise business decision from them.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:02
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I'd rather have mana, focus trees and mission trees over broken mechanics and an economic system that no one at Paradox knows how it works. The opaque economic system that nobody understands is the main selling point of Victoria, though
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Dec 16, 2018 22:13
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