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Pener Kropoopkin posted:the economic base of society and its social relations are what ultimately shape the political superstructure, because politics are ultimately an expression of class power. so to have a political system that has just distribution of social production, you have to overthrow the underlying class relations of dominance and submission. careful in equating politics with superstructure in a necessary way, though — that's the static sort of error the analytical marxists fell into, and one i will also cop to having made a number of times this is not to dispute that different underlying economic forms can encourage different political forms, and these will reciprocally affect one another. but the base as employed by marx is the economic structure of society, which consists of the sum of relations of production, and political relations become productive relations to the extent that they impact, or even steer, production. as always, marx's method shouldn't be taken as a doctrine so much as "a guiding thread" that only really comes into its own when it underlabors empirical investigation of what is playing what role within the totality superstructure thus shouldn't be thought of as a substantially separable order of material structures, but rather "the ideal form in which the totality of material relations which make up the 'base' itself are manifested to consciousness" — the forms that comprise the way a society conceives of itself for a thorough discussion of these matters, i recommend Derek Sayer's "The Violence of Abstraction" Aeolius fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 06:21
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quote != edit
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Dec 17, 2018 06:22
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ShriekingMarxist posted:yup yup yup, the GOP has been playing the long game on the culture (class) war for over a decade and it's disgusting fruits are starting to blossom The one thing you gotta hand to reactionaries is that they've always understood that "compromise" is an erosion of dominant class power. Which is why never compromising and just killing all agitators worked so well for millenia until modernity leveled the field when it comes to class violence.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I like what Felix Biederman called a "psychotic culture of productivity," where libs think the job of a congressperson is to do something, and that if you can't pass bills then that means you're not doing your job. The job of a representative is to represent their district, so passing tons of garbage is never going to be as good as getting nothing passed but never giving up on your political agenda. Tea Partiers sabotaged Obama's compromise on social security reform because they knew that pushing the country more towards psychotic reaction would pay off in more dividends than passing legislation that everyone would hate. Libs just don't get politics anymore because they've spent too long at the top. Well in the longer term, and let's be real we're mostly talking about older people here, they've spent about half the time at the top. Y'know every eight years we switch
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Dec 17, 2018 06:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The one thing you gotta hand to reactionaries is that they've always understood that "compromise" is an erosion of dominant class power. Which is why never compromising and just killing all agitators worked so well for millenia until modernity leveled the field when it comes to class violence. if you're not starting from the position that a capitalist and capital are completely unnecessary things to exist and their interests are irrelevant, then it's easy to see how they might be "due" some kind of concession or compromise lol
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Dec 17, 2018 06:26
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"well, I *guess* we can tack on some defense contracts to this food stamp bill, because a bunch of people who 'own literally everything' somehow SHOULD have some of their desires seen to!"
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Dec 17, 2018 06:27
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Question Friend posted:Well in the longer term, and let's be real we're mostly talking about older people here, they've spent about half the time at the top. Y'know every eight years we switch Except we don't switch every eight years. John Dingell has served in the House since 1955. Power passes over whole generations because of institutional gerontocracy, and there's never a meaningful transfer of power from the old to the young because seniority is always favored over leadership.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Except we don't switch every eight years. John Dingell has served in the House since 1955. Power passes over whole generations because of institutional gerontocracy, and there's never a meaningful transfer of power from the old to the young because seniority is always favored over leadership. I assumed you were talking about the presidency specifically because that's where Dems had been in power the longest
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Dec 17, 2018 06:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:She's gonna do some lovely things because that's part of the compromise that has to be made with the system as it is. She's already done more than 99% of seated congressmen by exposing the bourgeois dictatorship, even if she doesn't have a really revolutionary agenda. I only use her as an example of how there is still pushback from the left for even the mildest of criticisms. she is super popular and attractive with good opinions so as far as celeb idolatry goes you could do much worse, but gently caress it makes me pessimistic to hear demsocs defend her with the same poo poo we have heard libs defend obama/hillary with.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:45
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A Big Fuckin Hornet posted:I only use her as an example of how there is still pushback from the left for even the mildest of criticisms. she is super popular and attractive with good opinions so as far as celeb idolatry goes you could do much worse, but gently caress it makes me pessimistic to hear demsocs defend her with the same poo poo we have heard libs defend obama/hillary with. Ace of Baes is pretty bad about this. Giving people grief for compromising on poo poo like Palestine isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater, calm your balls.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:50
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Question Friend posted:I assumed you were talking about the presidency specifically because that's where Dems had been in power the longest Dems held Congress for something like 40 years right up until the death of the New Deal coalition right around the Clinton era and the Presidency AFAIK has also not been held by the Dems for significantly longer amounts of time than the Republicans, depending on how far back you look.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:03
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If anything shitposting at AOC from the left has worked. now she supports BDS and i dont recall any GHWB death tweet
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Dec 17, 2018 07:05
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A Big Fuckin Hornet posted:If anything shitposting at AOC from the left has worked. now she supports BDS and i dont recall any GHWB death tweet once again the misogynists in the dirtbag left silence women voices https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1033541213809455105?lang=en
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Dec 17, 2018 07:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Ace of Baes is pretty bad about this. Giving people grief for compromising on poo poo like Palestine isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater, calm your balls. If anything, it's to hold these folks responsible as we ought and should and to ensure that not only are they making good on the promises made, but are also open to future decisions based on the framework they've laid down with those promises. though I still like that everyone was proudly clapping themselves on the back when she had won the primary
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Dec 17, 2018 07:43
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i mean the primary thing makes some sense because she's in like a D+a lot district. What's funny to me is that the DSA clapped themselves on the back despite the fact that there's no real indication, on any front, and the DSA themselves have ever been a significant boost to any electoral campaign at all, and has merely hitched its wagon to people who proceeded to win or fail without its help. Even supposed "DSA alderman" carlos rosa in chicago is widely known in any political circle here to be primarily supported by the national nurses united bloc, which is primarily responsible for the formation of his aldermanic ward booster group and has pushed many other union-friendly city-level politicans entirely without the help of the dsa.
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Dec 17, 2018 08:01
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Victory Position posted:though I still like that everyone was proudly clapping themselves on the back when she had won the primary I don't really see anything wrong with having considered AOC to be a lock for elected office as soon as she won the primary, considering the district she was in
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Dec 17, 2018 08:04
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i love this thread, no irony
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Dec 17, 2018 08:15
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Impermanent posted:aldermanic ward booster group he consorts with sorcerers and still won the election? dang
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Dec 17, 2018 08:30
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You'd get surprised how hard it is to win an election in Chicago WITHOUT the sorcerers.
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Dec 17, 2018 08:36
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ShriekingMarxist posted:it's for sure a man made of straw, but recently awakened rose emoji and dirtbag left dudes are so sensitive to their freshly minted woke credentials being revoked and canceled by uppity minorities and marginalized people that really low effort baiting like this makes them go apoplectic and need rallying behind by more bonafide commies 
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Dec 17, 2018 13:28
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do not hmmyes me you bastard, you scuM! i've seen meltdowns you wouldn't believe, over the most trifling poo poo imaginable!! though a lot of it is probably just the result of the types of broken brains that inhabit the brackish waters of incredibly online and incredibly leftist spaces...... also i think I had an important thought and I need to bounce it off commies; i think one of the main reasons technology and apps are Ill suited to be revolutionary tools is because basically all of tech, apps and etc are designed as tools to facilitate targeted, market based consumption and spread commodity fetish, which are themselves ways of being exploited by capitalism, thus, it's then very easy to see how insidious totalitarian privacy erosion for the sake of marketing can be easily adapted to fascist ends (singling out target populations, spreading propaganda messages to the right people etc) when i say tech I'm kinda drawing a circle around gadget tech and media, there are valid tech advances for production obviously! harvester combines and, fukken, blast furnaces. though, I think there's enough casual evidence that shows consumer tech being a useful tool for oppressive governments, mostly by gatekeeping data, and tracking / propagandizing people. you CAN hijack some aspects tech for revolutionary ends, but it's a lot of culture jamming, or, taking your life into your own hands (trusting in encryption and whatnot to keep your secrets) the extent of which the liberal state is already entwined with and at the root of mass media kinda shows they knew what the impact would be right away and got control of it early (the FCC, zoning for running cable and fiber, etc) please read my future medium piece Literally Just Set Your Cell Phone On Fire And Never Touch Another Again
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Dec 17, 2018 16:22
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Important notice from Red Guards Austin:Red Guards Austin website posted:This project has reached its conclusion, we are no more.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:39
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platzapS posted:Important notice from Red Guards Austin: 100000000% cops
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Dec 17, 2018 16:49
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They fear the swamp
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Dec 17, 2018 16:50
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this is the most hilarious possibly end to the whole RGA thing
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Dec 17, 2018 16:51
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F
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Dec 17, 2018 16:54
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Social fascism is going to take over Austin now
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Dec 17, 2018 16:54
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platzapS posted:Important notice from Red Guards Austin:  to a real one
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Dec 17, 2018 17:06
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lol
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Dec 17, 2018 17:11
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Chairman Gonzalo will have his revenge
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Dec 17, 2018 17:30
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He’s done it again folks https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1074707309543260160?s=21
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Dec 17, 2018 17:50
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My favorite is retweeting labour party calls for more police
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Dec 17, 2018 17:52
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platzapS posted:Important notice from Red Guards Austin: 
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Dec 17, 2018 18:05
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platzapS posted:Important notice from Red Guards Austin: hahahaha
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Dec 17, 2018 18:06
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so I'm assuming there is some kind of yet untold interpersonal drama at the core of this, yes?
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Dec 17, 2018 18:11
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Mr. Lobe posted:so I'm assuming there is some kind of yet untold interpersonal drama at the core of this, yes? Nah just Austin PD tightening the belt, shouldn't have handed them a blank check for their pig head budget.
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Dec 17, 2018 18:14
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GunnerJ posted:Nah just Austin PD tightening the belt, shouldn't have handed them a blank check for their pig head budget. I mean, the drama COULD be cops. their composition have been a combination of dupes and cops, and perhaps one of the dupes found out just enough to realize someone else was a cop, and things just escalated from there. it invites a lot to the imagination, to think too much about that group. which probably should not be done in any case especially now lol
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Dec 17, 2018 18:20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MngxESKvBRQ&t=221s
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Dec 17, 2018 18:24
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I'm gonna put my chips down on RGD being an insane 4chan puppet theater for showcasing the LOONY LEFT
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Dec 17, 2018 18:27
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ShriekingMarxist posted:I'm gonna put my chips down on RGD being an insane 4chan puppet theater for showcasing the LOONY LEFT Red Guards Dallas are a bunch of filthy imperialist running dogs
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Dec 17, 2018 18:33
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