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Makes sense. The other problem is that the Xenon just aren't very dangerous. In a corvette it's extremely easy to knock out all the turrets on a K and take a few minutes to kill it. The fighters are more dangerous most of the time. Speaking of which, I have not seen a Xenon carrier yet. A capital ship vomiting out 40 fighters would be a huge problem with my current set up.
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Dec 16, 2018 09:32
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OwlFancier posted:That would be the other benefit to changing the map layout. Doesn't matter if they take sectors in between other factions, it just cuts off a route. Which is interesting and cool. But if they actually go anywhere currently then they've eaten the core of one of the other races. Yeah the map definitely needs more "frontier" space. There are a few sectors but they only really connect to one "core" sector so they aren't really contested - they're just sectors that are untapped by the factions that de facto control them.
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Dec 16, 2018 09:34
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So I was wrong about the speed limit cap. Turns out the UI is just bugged when it comes to the 'Forward Thrust' mod. Putting in a Travel Thrust mod I managed to get 14km/s and decided to do a bit of exploring. Turns out all those pretty skybox features actually exist! Or at least they're polygons- no collission maps or anything of actual value that I've found so far. I decided to fly to the rings of the planet in Hatikvah's Choice, made it there and then decided to fly to the gas giant itself. Here's the results:    It might be hard to tell but that first shot is my ship right on the boundry of the planet, half inside. Once through it's just big and empty, alas.
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Dec 16, 2018 09:43
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That's actually a thing since at least X3. That's how they make their skyboxes, all the planets are physical objects, just very far away and not actually simulated, but they exist in world space.
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Dec 16, 2018 10:23
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TEL HQ is facing a xenon gate only 20 km away from its dock entrance in my current save. So yeah. The setup seems to be a bit of a problem whether you love or hate war.
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Dec 16, 2018 17:47
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Section Z posted:TEL HQ is facing a xenon gate only 20 km away from its dock entrance in my current save. Yeah, but it never changes.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:16
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Hav posted:Yeah, but it never changes. But with all of the patches, war has changed.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:34
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Do factions have a general AI that controls their behavior? If they don't they need one as a counterpart to the player. For Xenon their sectors do need to be moved further away from the core sectors of the galaxy so there are more lightly defended sectors to fight over. Then you can have the AI give various weightings in terms of defense for the core and frontier sectors of their faction. At that point you can have a Xenon AI that puts a lot of effort into defending its core sectors, and then occasionally decides to invade the frontier sectors between it and the other factions. Finally you can have it occasionally decide to build up forces and launch an assault on the core sectors of another faction. If the faction is just coordinated by a single AI you can have it wait for a certain amount of time before its allowed to launch big assaults so there isn't a chance of wiping out another faction entirely. To avoid having a faction like the Xenon be wiped out entirely you could have some sort of reinforcement mechanic where a giant fleet spawns from a previously inactive jumpgate and proceeds to clean house and rebuild stations and such. I think that makes more sense than a station that can't be destroyed.
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Dec 17, 2018 01:50
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they don't have an RTS-style AI, but there is a war management AI. It's primary goal seems to be driving the economy and providing war missions though.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:54
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:they don't have an RTS-style AI, but there is a war management AI. It's primary goal seems to be driving the economy and providing war missions though. So what I'm hearing is that the war management AI is basically The Patriots from MGS4. ...Yeah, that makes perfect sense actually, especially since it lets you be Literal Sundowner. "All we're saying is...give war a chance!"
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Dec 17, 2018 05:57
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Dr. Snark posted:So what I'm hearing is that the war management AI is basically The Patriots from MGS4. This game quite literally runs on the war economy to the point where the game ground to a halt when the fighting stopped, until they patched. Also, how to a make my station buy or create missiles? I had no trouble setting up the drones but missiles just says something like "unknown component"
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Dec 17, 2018 07:41
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It would be interesting if X4 actually ran a 4X AI in the background for all the races like Drox Operative etc. does with each race only starting out with maybe one sector and trying to expand but that would be a fun mode for an alternate game start imo.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:52
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FrickenMoron posted:It would be interesting if X4 actually ran a 4X AI in the background for all the races like Drox Operative etc. does with each race only starting out with maybe one sector and trying to expand but that would be a fun mode for an alternate game start imo. I dropped a station in heretic's end with a administration building on it (or whatever its called) that is supposed to let you capture an sector, first come first served. Even though the sector was unowned nothing changed and I don't control it. So I don't know how well that bit works yet.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:58
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:they don't have an RTS-style AI, but there is a war management AI. It's primary goal seems to be driving the economy and providing war missions though. Of course they wouldn't behave the same as players but facilitate the operation of the universe. You could also spice up the game by modding the faction AI. But then I don't really know much about this war management AI so I can't compare the two concepts.
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Dec 17, 2018 08:00
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:This game quite literally runs on the war economy to the point where the game ground to a halt when the fighting stopped, until they patched. Given that station populations are now a thing, I feel like it would be interesting if they branched out the economy a bit into consumer goods. Like all they have now is food and medical supplies - even spaceweed/spacefuel doesn't actually get used for anything; it just gets eaten up at trade stations on a timer.
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Dec 17, 2018 10:11
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What happened to secondary station resources anyways as a sink for the economy?
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Dec 17, 2018 11:37
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FrickenMoron posted:What happened to secondary station resources anyways as a sink for the economy? They raise the efficiency of factories beyond 100%.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:09
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:I dropped a station in heretic's end with a administration building on it (or whatever its called) that is supposed to let you capture an sector, first come first served. Even though the sector was unowned nothing changed and I don't control it. So I don't know how well that bit works yet. You need a second one there. I think it might be the Pirate station technically counts as one admin building, so your 1 puts it into "contested". Or it's a bug,  This may be unpopular (even I could argue against it), but I kind of like the default trading behaviour as far as traders generally not taking long trades. For player stations, it forces the need to spread stations around, and specialize them to an extent, rather than a lot of people's X3 model of "80% of the universe's economy lives in this one sector now". It means that the racial AI (unintentionally) leaves trading gaps around the universe, and leaves room for the player to exploit. What's definitely needed though is a way to say "pick poo poo up in this system, and fly it over here, do that run on repeat" so you don't have to micromanage every trade action. Trading is profitable, just not if you leave it to do it's own thing and have it move 20 things at a time. Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 18:00
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What would an emote look like...
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Dec 17, 2018 19:45
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Lunethex posted:What would an Repurpose the Quark emote to say "PROFITSSSS" instead of "FEMALES".
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Dec 17, 2018 19:47
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Still playing Rebirth here. I really love the capships in this game even though theres only Argon ones (And one split) in it and Xenon. Having your Taranis/Arawn ferry you around with the cruise engine speed while you conduct trades and build your stations via the menus owns. It's still way more clunky than the galaxy map interface in x4 but I have gotten used to it. I just really think the ship design in x4 is a huge step backwards with all the dumb docking bays being huge rectangles. Also Capships have become smaller and only field 30% of the turrets they do here.
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Dec 17, 2018 19:57
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Chomp8645 posted:Repurpose the Quark emote to say "PROFITSSSS" instead of "FEMALES". "Waters failing" then it collapses like 
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Dec 17, 2018 20:11
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Someone is working on a mod to make the X4 universe more like the X3 universe: https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=406274 So far... 
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Dec 17, 2018 21:41
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Yeah I'm very much looking forward to some kind of TC which just makes a new map to explore. That's really the biggest problem with the game IMO, the war and expansion system does work but it has nowhere to go because everywhere's settled and fortified. A map with alot more sparse or unsettled space and more routes around would do wonders.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:58
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Start each game like a 4x game random map, random start locations, then pull a Dwarf Fortress and simulate time for expansion (whatever amount of time lets it fill up most of the map would make a good default, if they only get a very simple starting layout it might need a few years or decades). Simulation shouldn't be difficult, just tap into the SETA and have it run the game at 100x speed all OOS and tell the player to get a drink. Not sure how doable the random is, but it would probably be possible out of game by randomizing in the mod file at the very least. I think I want a total conversion mod for X4 to play closer to a 4x now. pixaal fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 22:07
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pixaal posted:Start each game like a 4x game random map, random start locations, then pull a Dwarf Fortress and simulate time for expansion (whatever amount of time lets it fill up most of the map would make a good default, if they only get a very simple starting layout it might need a few years or decades). Simulation shouldn't be difficult, just tap into the SETA and have it run the game at 100x speed all OOS and tell the player to get a drink. Rebirth had a "random map" mod that I think worked like this (you run an exe that generates a mod file with a random map) so it's definitely possible.
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Dec 17, 2018 22:37
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I would love... 1: For that giant new map to still have a space highway. 2: To be able to build space highways. I just really love zooming through a bunch of sectors at super speed. (It would also be nice if each sector would load into memory what the neighboring sectors looked like since, as it currently stands, the load-in time is too slow every time I warp around.)
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Dec 17, 2018 22:53
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I think some of the reason for more stalematey sectors is probably a bit of 'oh jeeze what do we do if wars are too strong' in X3 it usually felt like the only real danger were occasional xenon fleets in certain sectors or if a mission spawned something bad, while if everyone is doing some poo poo to each other you get more chance for one of the factions to get hellfucked. I do hope turrets get unfucked soon too, since it'd be nice to have a bit more challenge. (thought in X3:TC I kinda remember everything being easy unless it was like one or two bigger then it was just going to smack you down very very very fast)
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Dec 17, 2018 23:41
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Holy poo poo, apparently you can claim ownership of entire sectors in this game... https://youtu.be/hKpC15Cva0M
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Dec 18, 2018 11:39
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Yeah they added in a lot of very good systems that would be amazing in any other X game, unfortunately the rather compact map design means they don't really get used. Admin centres are how all factions claim ownership of sectors so if anyone managed to actually break through they would presumably be able to claim each other's space.
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Dec 18, 2018 11:44
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So you can just wipe out a faction entirely if you set your mind to it. That's loving awesome.
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Dec 18, 2018 12:06
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I've had trouble with a bug while assigning managers to stations. Sometimes when I land and attempt to order a crew member to be manager, the game tells me they can't work there The cause is that when you assign a manager while you're at the station, they have to walk to the office before they appear as a manager in the station information window and begin working. If they didn't make it all the way to the office the game still considers the position filled and won't let you assign someone else. If you undock assuming they'll find their own way there, the game pauses the walk until you dock again. The station appears to have no manager, but you can't assign one either The solution is to teleport to or land at your station and wait a couple of minutes for them to finish walking to the office. However, if your manager was on a landing platform when the gates closed, the manager stopped moving and won't start again. You have to find them, talk to them and assign them to a ship before they'll begin moving. This is annoying because you cannot see them while undocked, you have to wander around on foot bandaid.friend fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 12:44
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My first car was a stick
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Unimpressed posted:So you can just wipe out a faction entirely if you set your mind to it. That's loving awesome. I'm not sure if you can destroy their central shipyards but you should be able to functionally kill them.
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Dec 18, 2018 14:37
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Wasn't the map in vanilla X3 pretty small?
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Dec 18, 2018 17:12
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hobbesmaster posted:Wasn't the map in vanilla X3 pretty small? https://roguey.co.uk/x3/universe/ Not that small... But they still kept adding sectors in TC and AP. Pretty sure X4 will get the same treatment.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:34
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RIP Syndrome posted:https://roguey.co.uk/x3/universe/ Oh, I thought everything east of scale plate green was in TC and later for some reason. Probably because TC/AP take place there.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:41
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I remember X3:TC feeling insano-big with very samey sectors at the start but then jumpdrives really really really made the universe pretty small.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:19
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X3 was pretty big but unless you were looking for or doing something in particular most of it didn't really matter.
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Dec 18, 2018 20:00
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I still remember Getsu Fune because of the music and Nebula.
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Dec 18, 2018 21:40
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure if you can destroy their central shipyards but you should be able to functionally kill them. Ah okay, guess I was getting ahead of myself...
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Dec 18, 2018 21:43
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