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Oh also they’re making kids books about diverse casts in the Imperium. No, really. For kids.
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Dec 17, 2018 23:19
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Mors Rattus posted:Oh also they’re making kids books about diverse casts in the Imperium. No, really. For kids. Pull the other one
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Dec 17, 2018 23:20
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Pull the other one https://io9.gizmodo.com/these-warhammer-kids-books-are-both-heretically-weird-a-1826231922
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Dec 17, 2018 23:20
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Dickeye guess what gw wants to sell you a bridge, and some oceanfront property in utah
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Dec 17, 2018 23:30
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At long last, multiculturalism truly is fascism
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Dec 17, 2018 23:40
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Rowboat Guile's Theme trying to un-nazi the imperium so now there are two imperiums is such a bizzarre mess as a concept though. The new 40k rpg being focused on this so everyone can play whatever race they want and all be in one party makes this a pretty bizarre clusterfuck of a premise when the big key selling point of the setting is that nobody likes eachother and outside of very rare and desperate eldar + human team ups its just a disaster waiting to happen.
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Dec 17, 2018 23:42
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Joe Slowboat posted:The idea that Conan is in any way a downgrade from Heracles is a little weird. Conan is a fighter who gets an army at mid level and a kingdom at high level, is capable of climbing basically anything and being ludicrously stealthy, and was strong enough to break a bull's neck with his hands before he was fully grown. Herc held up the sky my man he is much more superman than conan
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Dec 18, 2018 01:18
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Transient People posted:Herc held up the sky my man Not for very long, because it sucks
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Dec 18, 2018 04:39
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IIRC it's not so much Chaos-tainted Tau as Tau starting to sound and act a lot more like 40k humans with paranoia and xenophobia, implied that an unshielded Warp journey caused all their allies to get possessed by demons and go all Event Horizon on them.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:23
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Transient People posted:Herc held up the sky my man How heavy is the sky? Because 'strongest man in the world' and 'superman' aren't the same thing. He is absolutely supernaturally strong but the way we imagine that playing out can be a wide range of things, and Conan is absolutely a mythic figure possessed of preternatural strength.
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Dec 18, 2018 07:21
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Desiden posted:Dark Imperium kind of kicks it off. That focuses a decent amount on Rowboat's fall and resurrection. Not sure about the tau stuff. There's a bunch of stuff that happened with the eldar, who managed to basically short circuit their end-times prophecy and (partially) create their god of death, which was supposed to require the death of the entirety of the eldar, but didn't. That's got several books covering the wacky shenanigans. Humans living in Tau Space believe in the Greater Good so hard that they accidentally create a Chaos God of the Greater Good.
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Dec 18, 2018 12:08
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Humans living in Tau Space believe in the Greater Good so hard that they accidentally create a Chaos God of the Greater Good. Warhammer kinda does the funny thing where humans are probably the most actively and diversely religious sentient race.
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Dec 18, 2018 13:42
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Desiden posted:Dark Imperium kind of kicks it off. That focuses a decent amount on Rowboat's fall and resurrection. Not sure about the tau stuff. Farsight: Crisis of Faith. 
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Dec 18, 2018 15:33
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It's like I said before, Warhammer 40K has definitively solved the Science Fiction genre
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Dec 18, 2018 15:34
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40k whips so hard. Good or bad its always really stupid
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Dec 18, 2018 17:54
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kingcom posted:Rowboat Guile's Theme trying to un-nazi the imperium so now there are two imperiums is such a bizzarre mess as a concept though. The new 40k rpg being focused on this so everyone can play whatever race they want and all be in one party makes this a pretty bizarre clusterfuck of a premise when the big key selling point of the setting is that nobody likes eachother and outside of very rare and desperate eldar + human team ups its just a disaster waiting to happen. EDIT: As I understsnd it the new RPG is set on the far side, but I don't think they're focusing on it playing so broad as to Deathwatch marines and Tyranids palling about in the same party - all the examples I've seen have been all-Imperium parties, for that matter.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:59
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There's no real This Side or That Side divide in the fluff right now, for better or worse. Things were bad on the other side of the Warp Storm for a while, but eventually things calmed down to the point where warp travel is once again possible in Imperium Nihlus, if harder and more dangerous, and they've discovered stable warp routes between both sides of the Rift. That's what the Vigilus campaign book is all about : the Imperium is trying to keep a corridor between the two halves of the Imperium open. Mostly it just seems to be a thing that makes things incrementally worse for the Imperium while establishing Chaos as a slightly bigger deal, which is what happens any time the timeline advances if we're being honest. There's no Western Rome/Eastern Rome style divide happening yet like fans initially predicted. What I do really like though is that the Ecclesiarchy is basically Roboute's best friend in enacting his reforms. The bureaucrats and the aristocrats will side-eye any change in the status quo but as far as the priests are concerned he's the literal Son of God and has full sanction. So Roboute has to struggle to reconcile his atheism with the fact that he really needs the Ministorum on his side, and it's not helped by the fact that he's seriously conflicted over whether the Emperor may or may not, literally, be a god at this point. Guilliman has noted that while the Emperor is a wreck physically, psychically he's only grown more powerful and more inhuman after ten thousand years, and he's struggling to accommodate the no-poo poo honest to god miracles and living saints accompanying him with his original world-view. Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 18:09
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Joe Slowboat posted:How heavy is the sky? Because 'strongest man in the world' and 'superman' aren't the same thing. He is absolutely supernaturally strong but the way we imagine that playing out can be a wide range of things, and Conan is absolutely a mythic figure possessed of preternatural strength. No disagreements, but even if you're super conservative with what Hercules can do it's kind of on a different level from Conan's feats. He's like a more swole Captain America, whereas Hercules could reroute whole river courses in a day by dint of swole. Both are mythical heroes, one just has enough strength to challenge the gods themselves.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:26
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Transient People posted:No disagreements, but even if you're super conservative with what Hercules can do it's kind of on a different level from Conan's feats. He's like a more swole Captain America, whereas Hercules could reroute whole river courses in a day by dint of swole. Both are mythical heroes, one just has enough strength to challenge the gods themselves. Being obnoxiously clear about this, including direct increases to STR, would probably help.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:29
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:40k whips so hard. Good or bad its always really stupid Yeah, but it's a fun stupid.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:30
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Transient People posted:No disagreements, but even if you're super conservative with what Hercules can do it's kind of on a different level from Conan's feats. He's like a more swole Captain America, whereas Hercules could reroute whole river courses in a day by dint of swole. Both are mythical heroes, one just has enough strength to challenge the gods themselves. I think a lot of this works out to milieu - they both have the same narrative logic, which is that they are the Strongest Person in their respective contexts, and they will win by cunning and mighty thews. That's what a fighter ought to be doing, regardless of the setting's scale from myth to low fantasy. If a (supposedly balanced) setting's greatest fighter is Conan, which is a valid archetype, then a setting's greatest sorcerer should look like Thoth-Amon. Just maximizing 'raw power' does disservice to Heracles as much as Conan imo.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:53
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Cessna posted:Yeah, but it's a fun stupid. It really, really varies
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Dec 18, 2018 22:18
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Darwinism posted:It really, really varies Fair point.
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Dec 18, 2018 22:29
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Joe Slowboat posted:I think a lot of this works out to milieu - they both have the same narrative logic, which is that they are the Strongest Person in their respective contexts, and they will win by cunning and mighty thews. That's what a fighter ought to be doing, regardless of the setting's scale from myth to low fantasy. Honestly, I think Exalted is a better idea of what 'high-level fighter' should look like than D&D, where your odds to actually hurt the monsters of your level are worse at level 15 than at 10, and their HP is exponentially higher while your damage isn't even linear.
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Dec 19, 2018 03:22
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fighters should get some variant of the Fray Die from Godbound/Scarlet Heroes to represent the fact that they're just so good at combat that they're always doing damage no matter what. as they level up, increase the Die
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Dec 19, 2018 04:13
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, I think Exalted is a better idea of what 'high-level fighter' should look like than D&D, where your odds to actually hurt the monsters of your level are worse at level 15 than at 10, and their HP is exponentially higher while your damage isn't even linear. Exalted is certainly much better at a sense of character progression to heroic might than D&D (also, it starts there right out the gate). Conan and Herakles are both pretty easily made as Solar Exalted in 3e, though both probably not as starting characters since they have wide enough legends to take some real depth of Charms.
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Dec 19, 2018 05:00
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, I think Exalted is a better idea of what 'high-level fighter' should look like than D&D, where your odds to actually hurt the monsters of your level are worse at level 15 than at 10, and their HP is exponentially higher while your damage isn't even linear. what follows isn't really intended to be a refutation or real disagreement with this post, I just like to talk about design I've found that, in 3e, taking BAB, Strength, Strength bonuses from items, magical weapons, and feats into account, a Fighter's chance-to-hit increases faster than a monster of equivalent level's AC. So much so, in fact, that a Fighter will often only be missing on a natural 1. This then further feeds into damage scaling: if you have a lot of attack bonus to spare, then you can convert that directly into more damage via Power Attack, and that is what gives the Fighter scaling damage with every level, something that otherwise seems like doesn't happen just from a cursory glance at the class's design.
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Dec 19, 2018 09:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:what follows isn't really intended to be a refutation or real disagreement with this post, I just like to talk about design I tend to look at it like this: Using PF as the example, say you start with the max starting strength at 18, giving you a +4 to hit/damage. From there if you put every bonus ability score point into strength, it will go up +1 per 4 levels. So at level 8, you get to +5 hit/damage, and at level 16 you get to +6. A +6 STR item means that at level 20 when you get your final bonus attribute, you can get to a whopping 29 Strength, for a +9 to hit/damage. Throw in a +5 weapon, and you're at +37 to hit for your first attack, for the low price of 50,000gp for the weapon plus another 36,000 for the Belt of Giant Strength, which at 20 isn't a huge dent in your wealth by level. Fighter BAB increases on a 1/1 ratio with level, staying linear throughout. Now look at a CR20 critter. Average 370HP, AC36. So at maximum strength stacking, you're pretty much going to hit with your attacks assuming you can get a full attack off, at +36/+31/+26/+21. However you're also going to do 4d8+56 damage assuming no resistances, so ~88 max unless you crit, or somewhat under 1/4 of the monster's HP. The wizard will instead throw a save or die. 'Good' save at CR20 is 22. Poor save is 17. Probably something simple like Wail of the Banshee, dealing 200 points of damage to up to 20 creatures within 40' of a point anywhere within 75' of the caster. Mind you, it will probably be killing the fighter in melee with the monster as well, because their Fort save even by level 20 (+12) isn't keeping up with the wizard's bonuses to DC, and on a good day a level 20 fighter has ~200 HP unless they roll a lot of 10's. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 11:43
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Having played a fighter in Pathfinder quite a bit over the last few years, why is everyone so hung up on raw damage? The wizard having the ability to kill anything at will is just something you accept as part of the genre. Is it good game balance? No, not from a game perspective. Are there more balanced games? God yes, d&d 4th is right there. Really, gently caress every written adventure though. Every big enemy is a caster, and always has mind effecting spells. Fighters mostly don't even get to play unless your GM is straight throwing the fights.
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Dec 19, 2018 14:01
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Dealing damage comes up a lot with Fighters (and other martials) because that's really all they can (or are intended to) do, and if they're already not the absolute best at it, it undermines them a lot because then what is the point? Also, it's a thing that you can more-or-less objectively measure, since trying to make comparisons between a Wizard's "utility" can be difficult without either taking away a Wizard's utility entirely, or giving the Fighter very close analogues. Lord_Hambrose posted:Really, gently caress every written adventure though. Every big enemy is a caster, and always has mind effecting spells. Fighters mostly don't even get to play unless your GM is straight throwing the fights. It's kinda funny because Bravery was given to the Fighter in PF specifically to address the issue that Fighters were so regularly dunked-on by Will save spells in 3e. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 14:56
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Having played a fighter in Pathfinder quite a bit over the last few years, why is everyone so hung up on raw damage? The wizard having the ability to kill anything at will is just something you accept as part of the genre. Is it good game balance? No, not from a game perspective. Are there more balanced games? God yes, d&d 4th is right there. What genre is this exactly? Is D&D a genre now?
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Dec 19, 2018 14:58
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fighters should just get spell resistance or whatever the current iteration of that is. let them shake off spells and supernatural powers through their sheer martial prowess
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Dec 19, 2018 15:07
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You mean like in every edition before 3e?
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Dec 19, 2018 15:13
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Fighters should fall down and start crying every time a spell is cast
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Dec 19, 2018 15:15
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Xiahou Dun posted:You mean like in every edition before 3e? Yup. Same reason a 2e fighter gets a goddamn kingdom, and the Wizard gets to spend exp on making magic items. AD&D 2e PHB posted:When a fighter attains 9th level (becomes a "Lord"), he can automatically attract men-at-arms. These soldiers, having heard of the fighter, come for the chance to gain fame, adventure, and cash. They are loyal as long as they are well-treated, successful, and paid well. Abusive treatment or a disastrous campaign can lead to grumbling, desertion, and possibly mutiny. To attract the men, the fighter must have a castle or stronghold and sizeable manor lands around it. As he claims and rules this land, soldiers journey to his domain, thereby increasing his power. Furthermore, the fighter can tax and develop these lands, gaining a steady income from them. Your DM has information about gaining and running a barony. AD&D 2e PHB posted:Unlike many other characters, wizards gain no special benefits from building a fortress or stronghold. They can own property and receive the normal benefits, such as monthly income and mercenaries for protection. However, the reputations of wizards tend to discourage people from flocking to their doors. At best, a wizard may acquire a few henchmen and apprentices to help in his work.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:26
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yay, i can level up and become a landlord
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Dec 19, 2018 15:28
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Serf posted:yay, i can level up and become a landlord Fighters don't have access to the 8th-level wizard spell Exploit Proletariat so they have to do it the non-magical way.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:30
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Andrast posted:Fighters should fall down and start crying every time a spell is cast
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Dec 19, 2018 15:33
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Except spells like Hold Person, they can only fall down if the spell lets them. Or the traditional 'Hello Sir No Longer In This Scene' spells, Maze and Forcecage.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:38
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Liquid Communism posted:Or the traditional 'Hello Sir No Longer In This Scene' spells, Maze and Forcecage. They can fall down and start crying in the maze no problem
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Dec 19, 2018 15:51
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