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The private sector has been getting its way for decades, and this catastrophe is the result. Getting them to promise to set aside some tiny percentage of units for social housing, all of which end up being means-tested and waitlisted, is still giving them what they want. You're still giving oxygen to private sector rent-seekers. You're still capitulating to the neoliberal market ideology. Oppose all market projects or GTFO
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Dec 18, 2018 02:43
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THC posted:you can still be a useful idiot for developers, even if you're not cashing cheques from Bob Rennie himself lol Right. Don't get me wrong here. I think there are definitely some useful idiots in AHV (especially among that market urbanist part). I think they are doing some good work in going out to council meetings and pushing back against rich homeowning NIMBYs, but they'd do even better if they adjusted and narrowed their message. The part I agree with them the most is around ending exclusionary zoning. This really has nothing to do with improving housing affordability in Vancouver but rather it's an issue of equity. It's not fair that it's only possible to build a rental building in select parts of East Van, while the West Side is SFH only forever. Where they are the most wrong is when they correctly point out the absurdity of the mansion zoning in West Point Grey, but then turn around and say the solution to this is to allow "four floors and corner stores" city wide, as if that sort of development wouldn't disproportionately impact affordable East Van versus rich West Side. They need to recognize that while we have SFH zoning across the city, the demographics aren't uniform. A SFH in East Van is a lot more likely to affordably house a collection of working class artist renters than one in the West Side. what happened posted:Yeah pbr is a loving scam at this point. Show me a single dwelling in Vancouver that has a positive cap rate above the overnight rate. The benefit of PBR is that at least it's being used by locals instead of being sold as investments to foreigners. As mentioned above the big issue is where it's being built. I'm less a fan of PBR coming into areas where it's displacing existing affordable housing, but I don't see any issue of PBR replacing SFH in the west side that are not being affordably rented. The problem with AHV is that they see PBR as a net positive no matter what, seemingly unable to recognize that in some neighbourhoods a lot of SFH's are occupied by renters and that when several people split up a SFH it's one of the most affordable ways to live in Vancouver. THC posted:that lady Femtosecond posted literally said that she was out stanning for market rentals, and attacked critics for not taking the time out of their day to do the same. I've already established my position that if you support any market proposals you're Part of the Problem I'd love to see the CoV be more like Vienna and build lots of public housing, but Vancouver does not have the revenue generating tools that Vienna has and I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for this to happen. Definitely advocates should be pushing hard to the province for this outcome, but in the meantime I'm ok with seeing market PBR instead of condos or worse, nothing. The worst alternative to PBR is that intrenched NIMBY homeowners in SFH zoned areas are like, "nope no development allowed, gently caress off to Burnaby." The best work that AHV is doing right now IMO is chipping away at the status quo idea that vast swaths of Vancouver should only be for a singular housing type. There should be rental apartments all around Jericho Beach much like there are around Kits. In the most ideal case this would be run by CoV, but I still see private PBR around Jericho being a better outcome than the status quo of multi million dollar single family homes. Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 04:21
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It is literally impossible to build pbr anywhere in the lower mainland if your goal is to house anyone who earns an average household income. Any pbr that will be built is literally a long term grift to sell it as a condo or convert it into a hotel because government is somehow obsessed with the idea that capital expenditure must be budget neutral or some kind of loving PPP.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:38
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I'm not gonna lie, the locals on the Drive do use a lot of PBR.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:17
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Vancouver Debt Bubble Megathread: Drinkin' PBR in a PBR.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:38
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https://twitter.com/betterdwelling/status/1074696484338192384?s=21 More evidence that ahv are doing God's work.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:18
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https://twitter.com/stevesaretsky/status/1075057680983576576?s=21quote:There’s room for buyers to negotiate, but on the flip side, “the economy is strong enough that there aren’t that many sellers who have to bring down their price,” said Yu. “For most sellers, they don’t have to sell … It puts a cushion under the market.” Has ahv got any economists as members? Maybe you can sign him up Mr. wynand?
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Dec 18, 2018 17:18
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THC posted:The private sector has been getting its way for decades, and this catastrophe is the result. Getting them to promise to set aside some tiny percentage of units for social housing, all of which end up being means-tested and waitlisted, is still giving them what they want. You're still giving oxygen to private sector rent-seekers. You're still capitulating to the neoliberal market ideology. Oppose all market projects or GTFO You know, I wanted to disagree with you and say that maybe it just means we need the social housing conditions to have more teeth, and that market solutions are going to be needed as harm reduction, at least temporarily, lest we become accelerationists. But, you know what, yeah, I think you're right. You have to weight the benefit of supporting density up-zoning for projects that create only a small net improvement in affordability, against how much that support ends up enabling the very groups creating the problem. AHV aren't intentional shills though, and I still don't think they deserve all the vitriol they get from the left.
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Dec 18, 2018 19:31
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I'm sure your acquaintances are well meaning and savvy. I'm just convinced that I'm right so I wanted to play the obstinate goon for a bit
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Dec 18, 2018 20:57
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AHV as a broad big tent pro-housing group has almost nothing to say about creating more affordable housing* . If you look at their twitter it's clear their main focus is that they're mostly just an anti-SFH zoning group. The biggest difference between the "two sides" of the Vancouver Real Estate debate, supply and demand side, is really about how to treat SFHs. The supply side are upper middle class people that have been priced out and have given up on the idea of ever being able to afford a SFH house, so they want to destroy the SFH exclusionary zoning concept entirely (if they can't have a SFH then no one can). The demand side are upper middle class people that have been priced out, but just want SFH prices to drop like $300k-500k so that they latch onto the lowest rung of the ladder, buy a SFH and join the petite bourgeoise that they feel they deserve to be part of because their parents were. * Though I'm sure if you dug into the individual twitter feeds of some of the more market urbanist members you could dig up some more supply = lower prices true believers.
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Dec 18, 2018 21:22
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https://twitter.com/theJagmeetSingh/status/1075125770484211712 jesus loving christ gently caress off jagmeet (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 18, 2018 22:17
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what happened posted:https://twitter.com/theJagmeetSingh/status/1075125770484211712 On the one hand he isn't wrong, because the idea that rig pigs rioting for a couple of days in GP got the government to fork out a Billion in "relief" Is pretty hosed.
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Dec 18, 2018 22:24
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Nice thread title change!
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Dec 19, 2018 01:43
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https://twitter.com/niremas/status/1075196417558249473 Awesome. This is definitely going to happen in Canada when the market starts tanking like crazy in Toronto.
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Dec 19, 2018 02:11
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I'm real excited to see how well intensified market urbanism fares during a pronounced housing market downturn. I'm sure it will be fine.
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Dec 19, 2018 02:41
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leftist heap posted:I'm real excited to see how well intensified market urbanism fares during a pronounced housing market downturn. I'm sure it will be fine. lol I'm looking forward to seeing how market urbanists spin it when developers put their projects on the shelf as soon as the slowdown enters another year. Conveniently timed with the last few pages of conversation, former Vancouver City Councillor Gordon Price's Podcast has an episode up with two Abundant Housing Vancouver directors about ~spatial justice~ so we get to find out once and for all wtf that group stands for. quote:https://pricetags.ca/podcast/price-talks-ep10-on-spatial-justice-with-jennifer-bradshaw-stuart-smith-of-abundant-housing-vancouver/
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Dec 19, 2018 02:55
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what happened posted:https://twitter.com/niremas/status/1075196417558249473 Canada has interest only mortage lending? Are you thinking about the floating portion of a HELOC?
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Dec 19, 2018 02:58
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Femtosecond posted:Canada has interest only mortage lending? Are you thinking about the floating portion of a HELOC? Yes, but only from private lenders and it's unclear how much of it really exists.
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Dec 19, 2018 03:06
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https://twitter.com/hutchyman/status/1075222496423555072?s=21 smh
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Dec 19, 2018 03:59
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I've had a mystery pain in my abdomen I've been dealing with since late August and I just got an ultrasound on November 27th and have to wait until after Christmas to see my family doctor for the results. It's loving bullshit, but that's what a housing crisis will do, when no one in healthcare can afford to live here!
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Dec 19, 2018 04:30
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We're dealing with this at our work right now (primary care setting in Vancouver). Everyone has moved out into the valley and the remaining employees are all working double shifts. If just *one* of us gets sick this season the whole deck of cards is going to come down. It's liberal abuse of the hand sanitizers, bleach and Hydralyte tablets.
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Dec 19, 2018 05:02
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HookShot posted:I've had a mystery pain in my abdomen I've been dealing with since late August and I just got an ultrasound on November 27th and have to wait until after Christmas to see my family doctor for the results. Holy poo poo you have a family doctor???
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Dec 19, 2018 05:16
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Baronjutter posted:Holy poo poo you have a family doctor??? Only because I was lucky enough to get one five years ago when I moved here; no one is taking on new permanent clients anymore. Also the person who actually is my family doctor has changed twice because of the others moving and their clients being shuffled around.
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Dec 19, 2018 05:34
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This is just the beginning. A lot of these jobs require call - how do you take call when home is 90 minutes away? This province is so screwed.
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Dec 19, 2018 05:53
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Not sure what everyone is so upset about. The city made sure to set aside some units in the Olympic Village for nurses, police and firefighters to live in. I think I will take a big sip of water and go look into how that panned out.
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Dec 19, 2018 06:26
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I dunno... Seems like kind of clickbait to me... or perhaps it's just the union making some noise as a negotiating tactic. One should be "ok" to afford to live in Vancouver on a nurses 70k salary, especially so if you have any partner that is contributing to housing costs (you may not be happy you can't afford to own a SFH but um ok neither are the rest of us).quote:"Nurses are compensated fairly and recognized for the work that they do, but it concerns me if nurses can't afford to live and work here," Sorensen said. I too find it difficult to buy a $1M+ single family home but, um, I can easily afford to live here. Buried in the middle of the article the hospital management doesn't seem to agree with the union: quote:The hospital's chief operating officer says BC Children's was able to maintain a safe level of staffing during that time, and added that the hospital is growing. It's in a new facility, meaning more jobs are being created. I guess it's possible that older nurses that are forming families are quitting in Vancouver because they're looking to buy larger properties further out, but I don't know I don't see the gap as being that significant. A SFH in Ladner is still around $1M. Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 06:33
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The only way I found a family doctor in Vancouver was because he was a new South African immigrant and very obviously openly gay, which I assume scared off some people. But even he is phasing out of being a GP after a few years.
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Dec 19, 2018 06:42
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:The only way I found a family doctor in Vancouver was because he was a new South African immigrant and very obviously openly gay, which I assume scared off some people. But even he is phasing out of being a GP after a few years. Is his office in yaletown? Is he moving into aesthetics?
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Dec 19, 2018 07:11
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https://twitter.com/vancouriernews/status/1075115493973843968?s=21 oh word?
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Dec 19, 2018 07:23
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What a surprise! 
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Dec 19, 2018 07:48
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Westbank has international sales offices and advertises in high end fashion magazines and their product pricing has no relationship to local incomes?!? Who could have imagined this outcome!?
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Dec 19, 2018 08:30
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https://twitter.com/DaraKaye/status/1074704960082845704
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Dec 19, 2018 10:49
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New Simcity arcologies looking good.
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Dec 19, 2018 10:50
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Femtosecond posted:Westbank has international sales offices and advertises in high end fashion magazines and their product pricing has no relationship to local incomes?!? Who could have imagined this outcome!? Certainly not ahv.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:13
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Femtosecond posted:I dunno... Seems like kind of clickbait to me... or perhaps it's just the union making some noise as a negotiating tactic. One should be "ok" to afford to live in Vancouver on a nurses 70k salary, especially so if you have any partner that is contributing to housing costs (you may not be happy you can't afford to own a SFH but um ok neither are the rest of us). Believe it or not, not everyone wants to rent forever, and a lot of professionals with job mobility would rather move somewhere where they have the long-term stability of having bought a home to raise their children.
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Dec 19, 2018 16:24
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HookShot posted:Believe it or not, not everyone wants to rent forever, and a lot of professionals with job mobility would rather move somewhere where they have the long-term stability of having bought a home to raise their children. Yeah I know plenty of people making 70+ in good stable jobs with really nice apartments or rented townhouses jump at the chance of relocating to Edmonton or Winnipeg or Hamilton because it would mean owning. They love it here but owning their place is such a priority and the uncertainty that comes with being an eternal renter can be awful if you're trying to brood a family.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:04
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Femtosecond posted:I dunno... Seems like kind of clickbait to me... or perhaps it's just the union making some noise as a negotiating tactic. One should be "ok" to afford to live in Vancouver on a nurses 70k salary, especially so if you have any partner that is contributing to housing costs (you may not be happy you can't afford to own a SFH but um ok neither are the rest of us). One thing you have to understand is that hospital management will never agree that this is an issue - it's a political non-win to point out that there are externalities that have a major effect on recruitment, especially when government action or inaction has led to this mess. Plus, it sounds like blaming. Part of leadership is to focus on the things you can do something about, so that's typically where management messaging comes from in this area. Saying "it's high housing prices" is a good way to find yourself looking for a new job, not because it's not wrong, but because it ignores other strategies that need to be put into place to help address the problem. The bigger issue with nursing, is that these people can literally work ANYWHERE. A Canadian RN designation, let alone an RN with specialty training (ICU, High Acuity, ED), is a ticket to ride, and the wages are the same in Chilliwack or Prince George as they are in Vancouver.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:07
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah I know plenty of people making 70+ in good stable jobs with really nice apartments or rented townhouses jump at the chance of relocating to Edmonton or Winnipeg or Hamilton because it would mean owning. They love it here but owning their place is such a priority and the uncertainty that comes with being an eternal renter can be awful if you're trying to brood a family. Once I'm finished school, this is our strategy. Winnipeg has the same lousy hockey team Vancouver has...so it's like totally the same, right?
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Dec 19, 2018 17:09
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I mean it kinda applies to a lot of jobs, doesn't it? Very few jobs pay any better in Vancouver than they would anywhere else, there comes a point that even if you don't wanna live under a giant pile of snow for half of your life you just move to Victoria or Nanaimo or something and do the same job for the same pay but you get to own a home some day.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:11
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No but don't you get it? Vancouver is special which is why everyone wants to live here.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:22
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