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Ham Sandwiches posted:Because you have a limited number of ascention perk slots, and those are hard to come by because you don't get more than you start with. So putting useless stuff in there you aren't going to leverage is bad, due to Opportunity Cost. That's why people fixate on that, I hope this helped illuminate. It's the difference between a design and a balance issue. Redesigning Habitats to be a core feature of every empire is separate from whether Habitats are bad rn. The fact that ascension perks are an opportunity cost and techs are much less so is the whole point, they're supposed to theme your society and even the *name* Voidborne is theming.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:21
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's the difference between a design and a balance issue. Redesigning Habitats to be a core feature of every empire is separate from whether Habitats are bad rn. Yeah but the entire Habitats -> Mega Engineering stuff is very weird. You burn 2 slots on it, it does nothing for you while the game is competitive, and once things are well in hand you can gently caress around with some weird sidegrades. The way the combination of "these are really resource restricted" and "these are really heavily tech gated" and "you can't rush them and even if you could you wouldn't have the resources, and even if you did they still take 20 years to build, and yeah they're capped at 1 because lol oh and you'll need to take some perks too" is a pretty underwhelming mix. Right now it genuinely feels like wasting the slots on habs and mega engineering is a trap choice in 2.2.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:23
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:habitats absolutely should be an ascension perk and not just part of every empire. I don't know why people fixate on that. It's not like ascension perks are hard to come by, and since living in space isn't part of everyones vision for their empire it shouldn't be a generic thing. Then don't build them? You got other stuff to spend money on. If the perks are so trivial then why are they significant?
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Dec 18, 2018 03:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:Habitat functionality changing based on being built around different kinds of objects in space is a good idea tbh. i'm guessing that this will be a thing that gulli implements to go along with his planet modifiers so i'm not too fussed about getting them in the base game though it would be nice
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Dec 18, 2018 03:30
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Yeah but the entire Habitats -> Mega Engineering stuff is very weird. You burn 2 slots on it, it does nothing for you while the game is competitive, and once things are well in hand you can gently caress around with some weird sidegrades. That isn't any different from previous versions though? The only thing that is maybe different is that spamming habs isn't the super answer it was in 2.0, but even in 2.1 the influence cost made it lots less viable. If you want to do cool space engineering you spend some perks on it, just like if you want to turn your entire race into machines. Saying that they're underpowered and not useful until too late is a different (and pretty valid) complaint, but that isn't tied to them being a perk.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:30
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I'm not really a fan of locking things behind ascension perks in general to be honest. Seems pointless. It makes sense for the ascension paths where for balance and functional reasons they need to be exclusive, and it also makes sense for things which are just stat bonuses, because it's just pushing your empire in a specific direction statistically and not really keeping you from doing anything. But for things like megastructures, gaia worlds, and city worlds, it seems pretty stupid tbh. It would be much more interesting to give each of those things reasons why you would want to build them and reasons why you would not, strengths and weaknesses, and making them open to as many people as possible.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:36
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I think it would in part help to retire Galactic Wonders in its current form and make "Megastructures" in some naming scheme be a literally-the-first-perk-you-take thing, so that they can be an all of early to mid game scale project. Then Galactic Wonders is a perk you take to make future Megastructures build at something approximating their current rate of production.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:45
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I think I am going to see if I can get over 1000 percent upkeep.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:56
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In my current game on the beta patch the AI seems to have just sort of...given up. I'm playing a pacifistic Agrarian Idyll and immediately thought I was in for some trouble, because right next to me were an Advanced Start crime syndicate, a group of hegemonic imperialists, and a Devouring Swarm, all within relatively short distances. It turns out I was silly to worry, because nothing, absolutely nothing, has happened. It is the year 2319 and I am the only non-FE to have colonized a single world in the entire galaxy. Every AI empire that wasn't an advanced start has one world and a few frontier outposts, the Advanced Start empires have two. Every single empire in the galaxy is Pathetic compared to me in both tech level and military size. For the hell of it I tag-switched over to another empire, and then a couple others, and quickly found out why. Every single empire in the galaxy is sitting on fully-built-up homeworlds and enormous resource surpluses (most of them are at storage capacity for every single resource), but they're doing absolutely nothing with them except churning out science ships and construction ships. Nobody has built any more military ships than their starting three corvettes, so my agrarian pacifists are the dominant military power in the galaxy by default. Everybody is so far behind us in technology because they're not replacing their scientists when they die. Nobody is colonizing anything even though every empire I switched to had 3-5 prime planets in their borders. Nobody is surveying or exploring any more because the scientists manning their starting science ships all died, so every empire has 4-6 idle science ships sitting around. I am effectively playing the game alone, the other empires are as static and insignificant to me as the primitives are. This is the second game I've played on the beta branch and the first time this has happened, the last one went relatively normally. I don't think I'm running any mods which would effect it - hell, none of the mods I'm running have gameplay changes of any kind, I'm just using a bunch of additional music packs and a bunch of cosmetic poo poo like namelists and additional empire colors. Going to check my modlist again to make sure I'm not accidentally running some potential AI-breaking mod and then try again, see if it happens a second time. Part of me wants to stick with this game a while, though, see just how ridiculous my economy can get with no competition for space or resources at all. Also, megacorps spawn way too frequently, I had 15 AI empires spawn and 7 of them were some variety of megacorp. e: yep, there's your problem, I was accidentally playing with Glavius AI on while I was intending to run vanilla AI, and I guess the current build is broke Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 04:06
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Mister Bates posted:e: yep, there's your problem, I was accidentally playing with Glavius AI on while I was intending to run vanilla AI, and I guess the current build is broke There's two versions of the Glavius mod now, one for the beta and one for 2.2. You could double check to make sure that you're running the beta version.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:B) They shouldn’t be an ascension perk at all. deathbagel posted:Yea, habitats should be a high end tech, after Star Fortresses and then the voidborne perk should make them actually usable, grant them production bonuses and more districts. Yeah, I agree with all of these. The perk shouldn't be to unlock Habitats, it should be to make them worthwhile.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:33
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even pre-FTL civs have habitats in sci fi
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Dec 18, 2018 04:45
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turn off the TV posted:There's two versions of the Glavius mod now, one for the beta and one for 2.2. You could double check to make sure that you're running the beta version. That's exactly what the problem was, switching over to the version intended for the beta caused an immediate change. Hell, I'm just going to play this one through, see what happens.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:47
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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1406918998 That's a good starting point for how habitats should work.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:49
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Or maybe have habitats be useful normally to make them a viable alternative to the current endgame of Ecumenopoli and Ringworlds at the same cost of one ascension perk. Creating newbie traps in the name of roleplaying is not a great idea.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:53
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Complications posted:Or maybe have habitats be useful normally to make them a viable alternative to the current endgame of Ecumenopoli and Ringworlds at the same cost of one ascension perk. Creating newbie traps in the name of roleplaying is not a great idea. I really like the way ecumenopoli are an extension of what you're already doing. ie, build a fuckton of city districts at high mineral cost then after you can't build any more you get a project to make it the ultimate city planet. Megastructures should feel the same way I think. Like, you keep upgrading an energy deposit on a star until you get the option to start on an entire dyson sphere.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:05
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let each mining and research station require one pop to operate
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Dec 18, 2018 05:08
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Can anyone actually confirm that the L-Cluster events really exist? I think that I've opened it in about five different runs and it has always been empty.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:11
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turn off the TV posted:Can anyone actually confirm that the L-Cluster events really exist? I think that I've opened it in about five different runs and it has always been empty. Are we talking about this version or in general? For me every time I have opened it up before the most recent changes it has been full of horrors. Also is there a reason why the dyson sphere has to go through 6 stages before it is complete?
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Dec 18, 2018 05:17
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mormonpartyboat posted:let each mining and research station require one pop to operate You jest but I would be absolutely happy for systems with colonized worlds to replace their mining stations with a system wide spaceborne population and building/district slots based on the bodies in system.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:22
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Do Leviathans spawn less often these days? I haven't seen very many in my 2.2 games.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:23
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OwlFancier posted:You jest but I would be absolutely happy for systems with colonized worlds to replace their mining stations with a system wide spaceborne population and building/district slots based on the bodies in system. 
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Dec 18, 2018 05:29
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Quick question; I've seen people mention the idea of using Social Welfare and Utopian something-or-other to eliminate late-game problems with unemployment, but how does that work? I played a game to 'finish' recently with an Agrarian Idyll society (incidentally, that civic feels extremely powerful, especially if you don't have MegaCorp for Ecumenopoli) and late game I could not be assed to shuffle my 27 planets worth of pops around, especially after filling up the Cybrex Alpha ringworld. I'd long since set my pops to Social Welfare, since it seemed nice anyway and it's not like I was struggling for any resource, and I didn't actually see a decrease in happiness... but the game absolutely drowned me in 'OH NO, ALL THE PEOPLE ARE CRIME-ING NOW, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE JOBS' popups for every planet. I didn't actually see any crime increase, though, especially since I was a transcendent psi empire with the Corps on every street corner. Even when they formed into mafia underworlds it had no effect at all; I had something like 160 crime suppression. But I thought that wasn't supposed to happen? I didn't have a picture of how much crime was actually being added, so it's possible no crime was actually happening, but is that how it's supposed to work? It processes the unemployment as Crime Town, but because no-one's actually unhappy there's no actual crime generated and it's not a problem? FWIW I upgraded from 2.2. to 2.2beta in the middle of the game (once I got my first gateways online, since I could see the game start to slow down just from the first two natural ones...) so that might be part of it, I just don't know how it's supposed to look. EDIT: Also, I did actually check their happiness. It was always 80-90% or something silly, and of course stability on every planet was 100; people weren't getting unhappy, per-se, it just seemed like the Unemployment Crime checker didn't care about how people felt, just how employed they were. BlondRobin fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 05:30
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turn off the TV posted:Can anyone actually confirm that the L-Cluster events really exist? I think that I've opened it in about five different runs and it has always been empty. I was able to get the Dessanu Consonance but they gave me nothing. I blew them up later and only found one nanite in there. I think the l cluster may need some more time in the oven.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:36
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BlondRobin posted:Quick question; I've seen people mention the idea of using Social Welfare and Utopian something-or-other to eliminate late-game problems with unemployment, but how does that work? I played a game to 'finish' recently with an Agrarian Idyll society (incidentally, that civic feels extremely powerful, especially if you don't have MegaCorp for Ecumenopoli) and late game I could not be assed to shuffle my 27 planets worth of pops around, especially after filling up the Cybrex Alpha ringworld. Combine Agrarian Idyll with the Shared Burden civic and either Shared Burden or Utopian Abundance living standards and never worry about crime or unemployment again - in fact, your unemployed pops will actually generate unity and research for you. Malick23 posted:I was able to get the Dessanu Consonance but they gave me nothing. I blew them up later and only found one nanite in there. I think the l cluster may need some more time in the oven. Yeah, I got the Dessanu Consonance too, and while their dialogue still mentioned giving me resources, and I still got an empire-wide modifier for the trade, I received no resources and the modifier had no flavor text and did nothing.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:39
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Mister Bates posted:Combine Agrarian Idyll with the Shared Burden civic and either Shared Burden or Utopian Abundance living standards and never worry about crime or unemployment again - in fact, your unemployed pops will actually generate unity and research for you. Does it only work for Utopian Abundance? I thought it also worked with Social Welfare. That would explain why it didn't work.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:44
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Mister Bates posted:Combine Agrarian Idyll with the Shared Burden civic and either Shared Burden or Utopian Abundance living standards and never worry about crime or unemployment again - in fact, your unemployed pops will actually generate unity and research for you. You’re also required to use the snailien portrait for this. https://twitter.com/martin_anward/status/1030751330065936384?s=21 https://twitter.com/artstig/status/1030849670766108672?s=21
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Dec 18, 2018 05:47
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I hate that I can't influence trade routes at all. I've got a super long trade route with a station on every node of the route, that terminates in a Wormhole. It's about 12 jumps from the hole to the trade capitol. The other end of the wormhole is 10 jumps through largely worthless space I control to the trade capital. The stupid trade route won't use the wormhole to link up and form a well guarded link, instead, it tries to route through the massive pirate area and poo poo is constantly spawning there. It's dumb that the trade routes just mindlessly attempt to go to your capital.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:48
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You can actually choose which starbase trades with which other starbase and make your own trade routes that way.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:53
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turn off the TV posted:You can actually choose which starbase trades with which other starbase and make your own trade routes that way. How? That would make it a lot better, but I can't seem to figure out how?
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Dec 18, 2018 06:02
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:How? That would make it a lot better, but I can't seem to figure out how? I think that you can do it by opening the trade overlay, clicking on a starbase and then clicking on another starbase.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:06
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Hoo boy does this game start getting choppy at about 2500. Maybe if I reduce the size of the galaxy? It's mostly deadspace anyways.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:07
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Wow, guys. Put your party hats on y'all cause Bubbles just turned 100!  Does he get more upgrades at 200-years-old, or should I actually use him in combat now?
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Dec 18, 2018 06:18
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Never use him in combat you fool, he is your bouncing baby boy. He is destined to watch and grow alongside your civilization like an interstellar dog.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:23
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I've given it a dozen hours or so and I don't care for the new planet management.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:32
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On topic of habitats; They should add infrastructure for space stuff on them. Their planetary features has nothing atm. Boring...
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Dec 18, 2018 06:48
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:I hate that I can't influence trade routes at all. I've got a super long trade route with a station on every node of the route, that terminates in a Wormhole. It's about 12 jumps from the hole to the trade capitol. The other end of the wormhole is 10 jumps through largely worthless space I control to the trade capital. The stupid trade route won't use the wormhole to link up and form a well guarded link, instead, it tries to route through the massive pirate area and poo poo is constantly spawning there. It's dumb that the trade routes just mindlessly attempt to go to your capital. I had a similar problem were my main trade route went straight through a system with a hostile leviathan in it, so I toggled the system avoid button. The trade route then re-routed itself around it. Try to set up one of the systems on the link you don't want as "avoid" and see if you can force the route to re-calculate through the wormhole. turn off the TV posted:I think that you can do it by opening the trade overlay, clicking on a starbase and then clicking on another starbase. Or do this. 
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Dec 18, 2018 06:57
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Guilliman posted:On topic of habitats; They should add infrastructure for space stuff on them. Their planetary features has nothing atm. Boring... Yeeesssss lovely. If I could make a suggestion, would it be possible to add some kind of baseline job for each body class regardless of whether there's a modifier? It's obviously best to save up and put them in the most interesting locations but it'd be cool if it recognized where you put them regardless. So the modifiers become basically a rare deposit for habitats?
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Dec 18, 2018 07:00
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OwlFancier posted:Yeeesssss lovely. Maybe, I'll see if I have time. I do like the idea of that. I still have 60+ planetary features to make/get art for/localise and only 5 days left until release.. godhelpme
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Dec 18, 2018 07:05
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I mean I can totally deal with having lots of space fields everywhere if it functions right
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Dec 18, 2018 07:11
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