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Broken Cog posted:A 25 unit goblin ambush on a 700g 2-skull mission? Sure, why not. With the new retreat mechanics that's just straight up a full-party wipe. All because you had the audacity of accepting an early-game mission with mediocre payout. 
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Dec 17, 2018 18:37
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Am I just imagining things or did the update buff Nachzehrers? I swear the little runty ones are hitting way harder than they used to.
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Dec 17, 2018 19:44
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SickZip posted:Unequip all your weapons and emulate Nick Cage's witch-fighting technique This is genius, and I wish I'd come up with it first.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:10
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This game has a pretty sick sense of humour
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Dec 17, 2018 22:03
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Speaking of the magic of RNG names, I just found a (too expensive) hammer called, I poo poo you not, "Sir Dankwart's Pecker." What a time we live in.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:12
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vyelkin posted:I also have a soft spot for historians and will always try to hire one, but usually they're utter garbage in a fight. 
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Dec 18, 2018 08:13
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Nordick posted:This game has a pretty sick sense of humour Somewhere back in the thread I posed about recruiting a guy who came with the nickname "Longnose". Guess what injury he picked up in his very first battle 
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Dec 18, 2018 08:57
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TheCog posted:I got destroyed by a group of 12 hexen last night. No escorts, nothing, just 12 hexen, wondering around. Round 1, they charmed my entire front line. It was not pretty. How do I even begin to deal with this? Is there a trick to it? Just run from the hexen if I see them in time? Like I can see taking down 1-3, but 12 is a lot. The answer is, and I know because I had to do this with an identical Alp encounter, temporarily bbedit everyone to have 100 resolve (which still manages to fail the charm/sleep a depressingly high amount of the time)
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Dec 18, 2018 12:23
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Wafflecopper posted:Somewhere back in the thread I posed about recruiting a guy who came with the nickname "Longnose". Guess what injury he picked up in his very first battle  That's great, and on par with a guy in my last game called Rupert Quickmind starting his merc career by getting brain damage.The game knows
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Dec 18, 2018 12:42
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Historians are also key to proc'ing the only choice in the buying a treasure map event that actually leads to a big payout for you.
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Dec 18, 2018 13:06
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If you pair them up with a graverobber, you can also get an event that gives you an unique, I got it yesterday (It was a shield, of course)
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Dec 18, 2018 13:13
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Update Looks like they heard y'all bitching about nimble and alpseseseses Changed 'Nimble' perk to now grant damage reduction to hitpoints up to 66%, but lowered exponentially by the total penalty to maximum fatigue by head and body armor only after the first 15 points. In effect, this should encourage wearing light/medium armor over cloth. Changed Alps to no longer use the 'Sleep' skill when the player has ordered a retreat, as to make retreating from large numbers of Alps always a possibility. They still can use the 'Nightmare' skill on anyone already sleeping when the retreat is ordered, though. Changed Alps to have a penalty to initiative at the very first round, as to give the player more of a chance to spread out at the start. Fixed ambition success events triggering more than once in some cases. Fixed ambitions for discovering legendary locations not working properly. Fixed visuals for armor attachments sometimes not updating immediately when replacing one attachment for another. Fixed 'Lunge' skill not doing the same damage as displayed in tooltip. Fixed AI not using the 'Prong' skill of the Spetum. Fixed crash on killing a Kraken if the deathblow was to destroy one of its tentacles. Fixed game freezing on opponents dying to the 'Riposte' skill. Fixed game potentially freezing as Schrats take damage from Miasma. Fixed game potentially freezing if losing a city to the undead during the 'Last Stand' contract. Fixed game potentially freezing when falling back from attacking objective in 'Raid Caravan' contract. Fixed 'Patrol' contract not starting when spawned while the faction still has 3 settlements to patrol between, but accepted shortly after one of them has been lost. Fixed 'Haunted Woods' contract not starting when spawned at settlements with tiny woods only. Fixed various minor issues.
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Dec 18, 2018 15:13
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Now they just need a quick "you can't have 12 hexen spawn" patch and we'll be golden. Something like if hexen =12 then gently caress it delete your game lol end if ; I think, its been years since i did anything remotely resembling code
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Dec 18, 2018 15:18
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I dunno, I don't mind the Hexen only spawns ever since that guy posted the fight club solution earlier in the thread.
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Dec 18, 2018 15:21
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imo that's a really good change for Nimble, and I'm mad that it's arrived immediately after I finished leveling my #1 archer to level 11 without it
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Dec 18, 2018 15:25
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Does Strong still count as 10 free fatigue points for Nimble purposes?
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Dec 18, 2018 15:29
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vyelkin posted:imo that's a really good change for Nimble, and I'm mad that it's arrived immediately after I finished leveling my #1 archer to level 11 without it I don't care for it. The original Nimble only needed some minor tweaks to and now they're trying to make new nimble work through weird kludges and arbitrary cut-offs instead of admitting the mistake and reverting to something that was working better and more elegantly
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Dec 18, 2018 15:48
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Broken Cog posted:I dunno, I don't mind the Hexen only spawns ever since that guy posted the fight club solution earlier in the thread. Yeah I used that last night and it was hilarious
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Dec 18, 2018 15:52
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Broken Cog posted:Does Strong still count as 10 free fatigue points for Nimble purposes? No, nothing which changes fatigue does except the actual weight of the armour itself. Not sure how armour attachments interact with this.
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Dec 18, 2018 15:54
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Reign Of Pain posted:Update So what I'm hearing is 1) Nimble armor you want a total head/body armor fatigue penalty somewhere between 15 and 20ish 2) For a frontline nimblebro, you want . . . stars in hit points, then your offensive skills? Still don't need to really mess with the armor/fatigue system?
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Dec 18, 2018 15:57
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Gridlocked and I used nasal/sallet helmet plus 115/-12 mail (with Direwolf attachment if possible) as the default Nimble bro setup even before the patch because it avoids damage going straight to HP. It resulted in a damage reduction to 47% before, which is good enough. Now it's at 36%, so close to maximum reduction. To me that patch buffed Nimble.SickZip posted:I don't care for it. vyelkin posted:Hey Wizard Styles I found an Orc Crusader or whatever the name is for that background Naked would have been best but as long as he's unleveled I can use him.
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Dec 18, 2018 16:44
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Wizard Styles posted:Gridlocked and I used nasal/sallet helmet plus 115/-12 mail (with Direwolf attachment if possible) as the default Nimble bro setup even before the patch because it avoids damage going straight to HP. It resulted in a damage reduction to 47% before, which is good enough. Now it's at 36%, so close to maximum reduction. To me that patch buffed Nimble. Patented Wizard Styles and Gridlocked Nimble Builds doughnut steal
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Dec 18, 2018 16:46
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Wizard Styles posted:Gridlocked and I used nasal/sallet helmet plus 115/-12 mail (with Direwolf attachment if possible) as the default Nimble bro setup even before the patch because it avoids damage going straight to HP. It resulted in a damage reduction to 47% before, which is good enough. Now it's at 36%, so close to maximum reduction. To me that patch buffed Nimble. Yeah, I think if you were using Nimble "as intended" -- i.e., not trying to entirely avoid armor at all -- this buffs it. It's intended to end nakedbro stupidity, not to weaken Nimble as such. The real problem this gives for me is that now "brawny" is not just a default pick for any melee bro, which makes planning out a "bro training decision tree" chart with all the default picks first is a lot harder. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 16:50
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I am a little disappointed that the naked sergeant is now entirely suboptimal.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:00
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Yeah it seems basic mail shirt plus nasal/sallet helmet is great for nimble bros. My guys are no longer decked out in necromancer and witchhunter hats though which makes them harder to tell apart on the battlefield. I think this will also go really well with the armour attachment system. I have a nimble two-hander and I gave his basic mail shirt the unhold bones attachment and now he can absorb the first marksman crossbow bolt every fight which is pretty great.Wizard Styles posted:Thanks! He's unleveled in that pic but I didn't even think to unequip the stuff he came with to see his base initiative and fatigue. Sorry about that.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:14
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Wizard Styles posted:The original Nimble had a similar approach that was just way more open to RNG bullshit. Whether you've got an n% chance to convert a hit to miniscule damage or an n% damage reduction means the same on average. The chance to convert hits just means more random deaths/injuries when it doesn't proc. "RNG bullshit" was part of made BB a good game. The various defenses being conditional and subject to bad luck means you had to layer defenses, play smart, and work to minimize risks. The new nimble being a certain boost to effective HP reduces the complexity of the game. The "fix" in the new patch just means its not completely broken and its a bit better for light/medium armor, it's still bad and boring. The original Nimble just needed it's base chance increased to 60%, the interaction with Strong removed, and for it to stop taking weapon fatigue into account.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:28
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SickZip posted:"RNG bullshit" was part of made BB a good game. The various defenses being conditional and subject to bad luck means you had to layer defenses, play smart, and work to minimize risks. The problem is that your bros need to be mostly survivable long-term, which means building them to be insulated from single strokes of misfortune. That's why Steel Brow is considered a core skill on basically everyone who expects to get hit by anything, for instance. You know that lucky hit is coming sooner or later, so you want to do everything you can to make sure it's not instantly lethal. Old Nimble was structurally flawed in the sense that not only did you know that lucky hit was coming sooner rather than later, but your bro was in a much worse position to not be Just Dead when it happened.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:07
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Old nimble was bad enough that I just straight up never took it on any melee fighters, for exactly that reason. If you want a bro to be with you forever, you couldn't give them nimble because eventually any old random enemy would land a lucky hit and kill them. That's absolutely not the case for someone in plate armour with colossus or steel brow. If they take an unlucky hit or two or three they're still standing and you can try to rescue them. If a bro with old nimble took an unlucky hit or two or three they just died. I really like the change to nimble. Believe me when I say your bro can still take an unlucky hit and end up in a bad way, especially if you're up against an enemy with attacks that do a lot of HP damage (I'm thinking of my own bad experiences with goblin wolfriders and orc warriors in particular here), but they can actually compete with lategame heavy armour fighters which old nimble just couldn't.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:14
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SickZip posted:"RNG bullshit" was part of made BB a good game. The various defenses being conditional and subject to bad luck means you had to layer defenses, play smart, and work to minimize risks.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:17
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Heh is a pretty good map seed. Decent starting bros, but the selling point is that there is 2 large towns and a citadel nestled between a bunch of smaller villages, so you can just bounce between them, doing delivery missions and trade runs. Most of the harbors are nestled around an unremarkable region in the south, but that's not that bad imo.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:43
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So is Brawny still worthwhile on a Nimble bro now, or is the choice between Nimble and Battleforged?
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Dec 19, 2018 00:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So is Brawny still worthwhile on a Nimble bro now, or is the choice between Nimble and Battleforged? Nimble specifically doesn't interact with Brawny. Wizard Styles and I are feely-crafting this ATM and we're kind of the opinion that at total on Nimble you're probably getting about -20 fatigue on Helm+Chest so Brawny will return about 5 fatigue. This is basically worse than getting Gifted as a good set of stars will get you about 3-5 fatigue PLUS the more valuable skill and defense.
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Dec 19, 2018 00:55
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Gridlocked posted:Nimble specifically doesn't interact with Brawny. Ok, makes sense. At the moment it seems like 1) If the Bro has high Fatigue but moderate HP, go heavy defensive brawny + battleforged. 2) If the Bro has high Initiative and HP, go nimble/dodge It's a lot harder to make a clear decision tree now. More branches and more recursive.
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Dec 19, 2018 01:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, makes sense. Yeah it's looking very much like that. You MAY even want to spend level up's on Initiative just for Dodge. If you like Wizard and I can post some of our "builds"
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Dec 19, 2018 01:18
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Gridlocked posted:Yeah it's looking very much like that. You MAY even want to spend level up's on Initiative just for Dodge. Yeah, I'd appreciate it I want to update my beginner's guide for the DLC but I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around all the implications of the new system, and I may need to revise my whole approach. For the moment this is my worksheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C7OUUKzsGJSSbswonWXmKJq0IGAhHHs0DgbYeRNGS4c/edit?usp=sharing
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Dec 19, 2018 01:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I'd appreciate it Access requested. Will look at it later once you grant access  Will tell Wizard too
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Dec 19, 2018 02:52
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Gridlocked posted:Access requested. Will look at it later once you grant access d'oh, sorry, should be open now. It's extraordinarily minimal -- like I said, scratch sheet. It sounds like the categories are gonna need to be: 1) Armor shieldbro 2) Nimble Shieldbro 3) Nimble Archer 4) Heavy armor two-handed berserker 4) Nimble lancer/sergeant 5) Armor lancer/sergeant 6) Nimble duelist 7) Armor duelist (I've never really used duelists) Basically any melee character seems like they have two choices -- what kind of defense (nimble or armor) and what kind of offense (if any). I'm not sure if a nimble two hander bro can work, but maybe? The other thing I'm reading is that a lot of people are saying Indomitable is much, much more important for some of the high-end beast encounters (Schrats, the Kraken). Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 03:04
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So far I'm not really in love with Dodge despite the Nimble changes. Nimble has actually replaced Dodge as the second defensive perk on my archers (first being Anticipation). The main exception being a bro I gave a fencing sword, because its special attack derives extra damage from current Initiative so you want to put some levels into that anyway. Apart from that I haven't really settled on builds. In part because I was just testing out all the new weapons on Veteran and now, back on Expert, I'm on a map (goblinhell) that really wants me to have Pathfinder on everyone so I've got one less perk to experiment with. I'm taking Indomitable a bit more often now, especially since, while everyone went Colossus/Brawny/Battle-Forged before now some bros only take Colossus/Nimble so there's an unused defensive perk slot. And I've always liked Indomitable since I usually fight Orcs a lot; now it has extra uses against Unholds. And the Kraken, in case you actually play long enough for that to become relevant. I still haven't even seen Schrats. Gridlocked posted:Nimble specifically doesn't interact with Brawny. Anyway, the -20 Fatigue armor loadout we were discussing for Nimble bros is Sallet Helmet (120/-5) + Noble Mail (160/-15). Maybe the Zweihänder hat if it drops but even then you won't get enough out of Brawny to justify it over just taking Gifted if the bro really needs extra Fatigue. e: On a completely different note, why do enemies not like dogs anymore? I'm offering them prime sacrificial dog meat and they still keep stabbing my bros. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 03:15
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Yeah I like Dodge more than anticipation on my archers because I pump initiative on them for overwhelm and primarying enemy archers anyway, and it helps if they end up in melee too. Anyway I'm not trying for perfectly optimal, just generally applicable. edit: anway, my current thought process for a decision tree is
That's just back of napkin theorycrafting though mostly. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 03:40
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I took dodge on all my nimble bros before this recent patch, because they were wearing regular clothes with zero fatigue penalty. Now that they're wearing armour with around -17 fatigue, suddenly dodge isn't as good anymore, their initiative is barely higher than my heavy armour bros. This run I've been trying out Colossus instead of Steel Brow as my default level 2 survival perk, and I'm really liking it. My bros are giant walking pools of HP. It does mean sometimes someone takes a crossbow bolt to the face, but with proper Colossus health even that doesn't bring them anywhere near death, although it does usually more or less take them out of that fight and gives them some kind of injury. For Nimble bros I've been making them extra survivable by taking Colossus and Steel Brow, and then trying to reach 100 HP with them (some have got higher, some haven't got there because they've had bad HP rolls). I used to find they were still a bit more fragile than heavy armour bros, and taking even like two hits from an enemy that does a lot of HP damage, like a wolfrider or an orc warrior with a cleaver, was enough to nearly kill them, especially with bleed damage ignoring nimble. Now with the armour, I haven't experimented much but they seem a lot more survivable because the armour will absorb the first few hits. I think if you were looking for additional defensive perks for a nimble bro, Resilient (I think that's what it's called, the one that makes status effects wear off faster) might be worthwhile. Mostly to keep them safe against bleed and poison damage, but it would also make them better than your other bros against goblins, hexen, and some other enemies. Schrats are nightmares, but mostly because you only ever fight them in forests. If you could fight them on plains and properly surround them, and do more careful positioning so your guys aren't all vulnerable to their line AOE attack, they would be a pushover. But in forests with all the chokepoints and limited maneuvering, you often end up in situations where only one or two bros can face the schrat so it takes a long time to kill breaking its shields over and over, and your longaxe users are often stuck standing where they'll get murdered by the AOE. I already don't like forest fights, so I think I'll just avoid schrats altogether because I found my fight against them really unfun and virtually guaranteed that at least one longaxe user would die from some unlucky hit (those AOE attacks do insane damage).
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Dec 19, 2018 05:52
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