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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:I don't think it's widely accepted that they were ever actually a real thing. Even if they were, you'd compare them to organized criminal gangs. They wouldn't go on a "most prolific serial killers" list. They used to on Wikipedia which is yknow. whatever.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:30
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Oh, I know. I was trying to think of other cults to compare him to. On his own he's really up there.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:31
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Say what you will about Jones. He was really good at killing
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Dec 18, 2018 02:34
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christmas boots posted:You’re right, wrong death cult Yeah this needs to be the new title
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Dec 18, 2018 02:34
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Proteus Jones posted:Yeah, Ryan was from a time when congressman (mostly) went on fact-finding missions to find actual facts. IIRC, the whole impetus for the trip were his constituents complaining to him in concern for their family and rumors of abuse. Yeah, if I remember correctly, he was friends with someone whose son was a member of the Temple and died in an accident shortly after talking about leaving to his wife, who had already fled and was in hiding. I don't know that anything ever came of that officially, what with all the focus on Jonestown, but beyond all the stuff in the press and what he was hearing from constituents, he did have at least a tenuous personal connection. It's also illustrative of something that I don't think gets much attention: People's Temple members definitely killed some ex-members in California, the exact number is disputed, and was actively running teams of kidnappers who would grab ex members and bring them back. By the time they fled to Jonestown, these rumors were widespread enough that an official investigation was gonna happen sooner or later, probably sooner. This also is something that gets overlooked in the dynamic of People's Temple. Jim Jones took with him to Guyana several members who had already killed for him or at least aided and abetted felonies, and knew that, if they went back to the US, they'd have to face the consequences.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:38
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Milo and POTUS posted:Say what you will about Jones. He was really good at killing The fella drat near killed a towns worth.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:The fella drat near killed a towns worth. Well, shucks. We oughtta name a town after ‘im then.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:48
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If you’re just looking for the person who personally killed a high number of people it would be that Soviet executioner who was tasked with disposing of the Polish officer corps and shot thousands of them in the head himself
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Dec 18, 2018 02:48
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Pvt.Scott posted:Well, shucks. We oughtta name a town after ‘im then. Killsborough taken yet? edit: Well, of course it's a craft brewery: http://killsboro.com/
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Dec 18, 2018 02:50
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Pirate Radar posted:If you’re just looking for the person who personally killed a high number of people it would be that Soviet executioner who was tasked with disposing of the Polish officer corps and shot thousands of them in the head himself Vasily Blokhin. He's credited with tens of thousands of personal executions, including 7000 over a 28-day period. Not ones he ordered, but ones he personally conducted (accomplishing 1 headshot every 3 minutes at his best pace). He brought a whole briefcase of .25 caliber Walther pistols to ensure that he could keep going through the heavy usage.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:52
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chitoryu12 posted:Vasily Blokhin. He's credited with tens of thousands of personal executions, including 7000 over a 28-day period. Not ones he ordered, but ones he personally conducted (accomplishing 1 headshot every 3 minutes at his best pace). He brought a whole briefcase of .25 caliber Walther pistols to ensure that he could keep going through the heavy usage.  This thread is back on track and I am weirded out
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Dec 18, 2018 02:53
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chitoryu12 posted:Vasily Blokhin. He's credited with tens of thousands of personal executions, including 7000 over a 28-day period. Not ones he ordered, but ones he personally conducted (accomplishing 1 headshot every 3 minutes at his best pace). He brought a whole briefcase of .25 caliber Walther pistols to ensure that he could keep going through the heavy usage. 
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Dec 18, 2018 02:56
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StrixNebulosa posted:
Yeah, Stalinist Russia would probably be an entire thread all its own. Stalin and Pals did not gently caress around.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:00
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chitoryu12 posted:(accomplishing 1 headshot every 3 minutes at his best pace) I know this sounds hosed up but that actually seems kinda slow to me. What was the setup? Also, why am I asking this?
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Dec 18, 2018 03:41
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That's socialism for you. Under capitalism we would have found a way to keep him shooting people in the head at home, on the weekends, during his lunch break, etc.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:55
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showbiz_liz posted:I know this sounds hosed up but that actually seems kinda slow to me. What was the setup? Also, why am I asking this? The three minutes includes the whole process of bringing the guy into the soundproof room, making him kneel in the right place, shooting him, dragging his carcass out of there and hosing up the blood and brains, I think
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Dec 18, 2018 04:00
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Pirate Radar posted:The three minutes includes the whole process of bringing the guy into the soundproof room, making him kneel in the right place, shooting him, dragging his carcass out of there and hosing up the blood and brains, I think drat, just batch job that poo poo. Communist inefficiency at it is worst Drunk Nerds has a new favorite as of 04:12 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 04:08
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Pirate Radar posted:The three minutes includes the whole process of bringing the guy into the soundproof room, making him kneel in the right place, shooting him, dragging his carcass out of there and hosing up the blood and brains, I think Edit: I was incorrect about there being a kangaroo court sentencing the prisoners to death. They did nothing but a cursory identification before being handcuffed and sent into another room for execution. chitoryu12 has a new favorite as of 04:56 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 04:53
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People's Temple stuff is always hard for me because my parents (at least my dad, directly, my mother less so but still) were friends with many of the people... they were one of the biggest/first anti-racist entities like that and appealed to a huge number of people in the Bay Area. I hadn't been told about their direct, personal connections with all the people that died there, but I checked out a book when I was 11 or so from the library about Jonestown and that deeply upset my mom but I had no context as to why - I just enjoyed reading about the 60s & 70s. A while later, one of my aunts took me aside and explained that my parents had known and been friends with many of the people who died at Jonestown. Between the arsons, gay and trans liberation, Harvey Milk, heroin, speed, Jonestown, AIDS epidemic, etc. my parents don't have many friends from that era left. I always felt bad I made my mom cry, even if I didn't understand the reason.
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Dec 18, 2018 05:06
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chitoryu12 posted:Vasily Blokhin. He's credited with tens of thousands of personal executions, including 7000 over a 28-day period. Not ones he ordered, but ones he personally conducted (accomplishing 1 headshot every 3 minutes at his best pace). He brought a whole briefcase of .25 caliber Walther pistols to ensure that he could keep going through the heavy usage. That 7000 is the Katyn Massacre, for which the death toll is listed at about 22,000 meaning that about a third of them were killed by one man. The mass graves from the massacre were discovered and brought to international attention by the Nazis, who then passed secret orders to their extermination camps to switch from mass graves to cremation in an attempt to hide evidence of the Final Solution from advancing Soviet forces. The Eastern Front is a nightmare from beginning to end.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:01
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Acute Grill posted:That 7000 is the Katyn Massacre, for which the death toll is listed at about 22,000 meaning that about a third of them were killed by one man. Nazis vs. Soviets was just sort of a competition to see who could survive after committing the most war crimes.
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Dec 18, 2018 06:13
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Getting the thread back on track now that we have a new thread for horrible teachers: Researching her's a challenge in itself as I've learned over the years. I first heard of her when I was deep in my paranormal interests with the accounts of how haunted her home is, and back when I was taking classes I had been rolling around the idea of writing a paper on her with how the specifics of an event can change over time and retellings. Granted this was some years back so researching what's been converted to digital was touch and go depending on the subject and any books about her mostly focused on the haunted house aspect, but earliest anything I could find about her was published in the 1950s, and with the description of the condition of her victims being so horrific, I was expecting to find something primary source news articles about it. Only definitive info I found is she was a real person who lived in New Orleans at the time and left town in a hurry. Considering how well archiving news was at the time along with everything else New Orleans has gone through since then, it's possible anything written from the era's been lost until someone's diary might have something documented. I have read some accounts that the fire might've been set by the cook who was chained to the stove as a desperate attempt to draw attention to the horrors going on in the mansion, as well as it being likely that it was both Delphine and her husband who were torturing the slaves. Considering she was used as a character in American Horror Story: Coven, I probably should start researching around to see if anything new's turned up.
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Dec 18, 2018 10:06
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Milo and POTUS posted:Say what you will about Jones. He was really good at killing https://twitter.com/dril/status/831805955402776576
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Dec 18, 2018 11:24
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PYF unnerving article or story: you're right, wrong death cult Loving the new thread title.
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Dec 18, 2018 13:22
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Cat Army
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I was caught off guard by how little I actually knew about Jonestown when I listened to the Casefile episodes on it. Had no idea they murdered a sitting congressman and a news team before the mass murder/suicide stuff, or that Jones started out as a really leftist firebrand preacher. The audio in the last episode from the suicides was really loving unnerving.
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Dec 18, 2018 13:39
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Milo and POTUS posted:Say what you will about Jones. He was really good at killing He has competition in the 'Cult leader with victim numbers in the upper hundreds' field, though. Worryingly recent competition, at that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_for_the_Restoration_of_the_Ten_Commandments_of_God Most of the victims - 530 of them - died after being locked into a church that was then set on fire, after the promised Second Coming did not kick off when the year 2000 rolled around. But there must have been organised killings going on for some time previously, though it's never been clear exactly who ordered them (the Movement had been drawing in disgraced religious charlatans for years). Googling this story will bring up grim pictures of charred victims on almost every site that deals with the story and is not Wikipedia, so be careful. The Friendly Atheist is an exception, and goes into the background in more detail: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...took-788-lives/ 788 victims is a low estimate. The Ugandan government has never wanted a particularly accurate death toll because it's far from impossible that more than 908 people died, making it 'worse than Jonestown'. It all happened less than 20 years ago, and the founding couple, Credonia Mwerinde and Joseph Kibwetere, are just possibly still alive. If it's the case that at least one of them did survive the fire (which seems probable) then they got away with murdering 900+ people. Carnival of Shrews has a new favorite as of 14:57 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 14:54
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Carnival of Shrews posted:He has competition in the 'Cult leader with victim numbers in the upper hundreds' field, though. Worryingly recent competition, at that: I had never heard of these guys and now I kind of wish I hadn't A+ post, thank you!
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Dec 18, 2018 15:47
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You know, I'm just going to come out and say it. This Jones guy was a real jerk.
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Dec 18, 2018 16:12
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Can’t find it now but there is an unnerving article out there about the effort to recover the bodies from Jonestown to bring them back to the US. They’d been out there for days in the heat. The article briefly mentions insects... 
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Dec 18, 2018 16:49
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This is a very good article about Jonestown, written by Congresswoman Jackie Spier, who was one of Ryan’s aides at the time.quote:When people refer to the Jonestown massacre as a “mass suicide,” I am enraged. It was nothing of the kind. Although some of Jones’s most zealous followers may have consumed the poison voluntarily, the vast majority were murdered outright and against their will. Nearly 300 children were administered the poison with no comprehension of what it meant, including a number of infants in the arms of their parents. Infants cannot commit suicide. The hundreds of elderly were told that if they attempted escape, they would be left to die prolonged deaths alone in the depths of the jungle.
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Dec 18, 2018 17:15
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StrixNebulosa posted:I had never heard of these guys and now I kind of wish I hadn't Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Mwerinde and Kibwetere are/were even worse examples of human beings than Jim Jones -- a low bar to limbo under, morally speaking, but they managed it. The detail that got me (I'm not sure if either of the articles I linked to mention this, but i's true) was that the members of the cult were encouraged to sell off all their belongings in the run-up to the End of the World. There can be no doubt that it was premeditated mass murder for financial gain (and to get out of a sticky situation, prophecy-wise).
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Dec 18, 2018 19:37
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I can't remember where this thread currently sits on Sword and Scale, but I figure this might be of interest to some people.
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Dec 19, 2018 08:20
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Sword and Scale is the lovely rear end in a top hat version of Casefiles. This doesn't surprise me.
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Dec 19, 2018 08:29
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Whitlam posted:I can't remember where this thread currently sits on Sword and Scale, but I figure this might be of interest to some people. I tried watching for several minutes but I have no clue what their problem is or what they need to do about it.
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Dec 19, 2018 08:42
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Comstar posted:I tried watching for several minutes but I have no clue what their problem is or what they need to do about it. Patreon banned some Nazis and those two jerks are mad about it.
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Dec 19, 2018 08:58
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Whitlam posted:I can't remember where this thread currently sits on Sword and Scale, but I figure this might be of interest to some people. Sword and Scales is.... the guy is a creep poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2018 09:41
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Free market for thee, not for me
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Dec 19, 2018 10:19
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People continuously failing to understand what free speech actually is is genuinely unnerving.
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Dec 19, 2018 10:23
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Aphex- posted:People continuously failing to understand what free speech actually is is genuinely unnerving. Or the free market, or private property, or how the three together. For example I am not violating the first amendment if I kick you out of my house for screaming nazi slogans out the window.
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Dec 19, 2018 10:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Or the free market, or private property, or how the three together. Exactly. In a broad sense, the First Amendment means that you can't be put in jail if you criticize the president. It does not mean that you can say anything, to anyone, at any time, with no consequences.
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Dec 19, 2018 13:12
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