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"Boring cars" are fine compared to those things that crawled out of the ocean between 2004 and 2010. I like the boring interiors too, but yeah, bring back some classic colors without having to go $5k individual. The kidneys have gotten ridiculous though. The new X5's is an abomination. Go look at how good the X3 looks in comparison and even its version has gotten too big. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 03:55
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e46 M3 was the pinnacle and BMW will never make a sexier car, but I think the M2 is pretty great.
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Dec 19, 2018 04:37
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With such high demand for their older models do you think BMW would ever go back and do a modern re-release of those vehicles? Like release the e30 in a limited run, exterior mostly the same but the inside modernized. Has any car company ever done that?
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Dec 19, 2018 04:39
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Popete posted:With such high demand for their older models do you think BMW would ever go back and do a modern re-release of those vehicles? Man I was gonna post this and kept erasing it. Pull a Ford and make mustangs that look like old mustangs Kinda Sorta but E30s instead
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Dec 19, 2018 04:48
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Popete posted:e46 M3 was the pinnacle and BMW will never make a sexier car, but I think the M2 is pretty great. They made the E82.
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Dec 19, 2018 05:51
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Cojawfee posted:They made the E82. Which definitely doesn't look better than the e46m3
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Dec 19, 2018 05:56
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Fake news.
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Dec 19, 2018 06:12
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2001 was the zenith of automotive design because the E38, E39, and E46 were all for sale new at the same time.
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Dec 19, 2018 06:22
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Keyser_Soze posted:"Boring cars" are fine compared to those things that crawled out of the ocean between 2004 and 2010. I like the boring interiors too, but yeah, bring back some classic colors without having to go $5k individual. The X7 grille could have been bigger.
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Dec 19, 2018 06:27
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peak bmw styling is an e36 with a spoiler that's the tallest point on the car
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Dec 19, 2018 07:00
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hifi posted:peak bmw styling is an e36 with a spoiler that's the tallest point on the car LTW M banner decals.
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Dec 19, 2018 07:13
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Popete posted:e46 M3 was the pinnacle and BMW will never make a sexier car, but I think the M2 is pretty great. Whoa I didn't know we had a beautiful genius with great taste in here!!
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Dec 19, 2018 07:37
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bird with big dick posted:Does anyone else think that current BMW styling is literally the worst it's been in company history? Popete posted:e46 M3 was the pinnacle and BMW will never make a sexier car, but I think the M2 is pretty great.  luckily the cars are too fat and unserviceable for me to consider aniways and I sit on a well of nearly infinite used BMWs for cheap that is the German domestic market.And the killer argument is obviously that you can barely find one you can still order in manual these days. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 07:43
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Popete posted:With such high demand for their older models do you think BMW would ever go back and do a modern re-release of those vehicles? Nope. It would be management suicide practically. It's the acceptance that your last years of product design were trash and you trampled your heritage to death. So precisely what is happening with our automotive brands.
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Dec 19, 2018 07:48
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Combat Theory posted:Nope. It would be management suicide practically. It's the acceptance that your last years of product design were trash and you trampled your heritage to death. Yeah I figured that was why auto companies never tried it. It would be a statement that you've deviated from what people want and you're no longer "innovating" and just cashing in on past greatness.
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Dec 19, 2018 07:56
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Paradoxish posted:E46s are old now and you'll have to deal with old car poo poo, but the cars themselves are reliable. The M54 engines are legitimately bulletproof, and not in a "reliable for a used German car" kind of way either. Cooling system problems are honestly overblown (and very cheap/easy to address anyway) and subframes aren't an issue on the newer models. KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 08:03
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Popete posted:With such high demand for their older models do you think BMW would ever go back and do a modern re-release of those vehicles?
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Dec 19, 2018 14:03
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Popete posted:Yeah I figured that was why auto companies never tried it. It would be a statement that you've deviated from what people want and you're no longer "innovating" and just cashing in on past greatness. Would be neat though.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:13
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GentlemanofLeisure posted:That, and it wouldn't meet any of the new safety requirements for whatever they have in Europe and here in the US. There's a reason windows have gotten smaller and beltlines are getting higher. And why hoods/front ends have to be shaped a certain way. All that + the technology factors: it's probably impossible to modify, versus completely re-engineer, frames, monocoques, and materials of these 70s-designed cars and trucks to pass side-impact and partial-offset crash tests, and then there's other formal legal requirements (differing by country) and then even informal agreements such as where ~20? manufacturers agreed to include lane departure tech in all their cars by 2022. I don't think the 70 series Land Cruiser had anything other than driver + passenger airbags + ABS added (and a new dash made) because they knew they were keeping it Japan-only and wouldn't have to pass US or Euro crash test regs. Without further exemptions for limited production cars in the largest (US, China, Yurrup) markets this really won't happen again at the OEM level. PS, E30s are not viewed as cool today by the archetypal consumer cross-shopping lovely $35k 4 cylinder CUVs, who are ultimately the core of the new-car buying market. For those in that 45-64 demo that buy new cars and want a nostalgic coupe, that's what the Dodge Challenger - the midlife crisis car that's usurped Corvettes - exists for.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:13
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Given the used car prices for an e30, e32 or e34 on even the German market, I would say they are pretty drat popular. My e34 went from 2000 € value to somewhere in the 7000 to 8000 € within 5 years basically (you can bank on this from the moment they go mobile tradition within the BMW eco system) and there's no end in sight. I just wish this spiraling would have waited until I had the time and fun money for an M5 and maybe an E46 M3. The e46 is worth more than an equivalent e90 over here already.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:28
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Idk that the J70 is the best example of this since they never stopped selling them in Australia. I'd have gone with the new E-type.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:02
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My suspicion is that used car market prices mean nothing to an OEM thinking about reproducing old car designs unless said cars are transacting at say $2.3 million per unit.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:03
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Can you imagine the fervor that would be generated if BMW did a concept of a contemporary E30 though? Like an N52 powered model with modern interior and creature comforts; it would be incredible. People would no doubt line up with their $$$ if it could be done. In the RC world (where I work) there have been a number of companies that have cashed in on nostalgia re-release in the past decade and they have made a mint doing it. Nostalgia is an incredibly powerful and expensive drug.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:11
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Somewhat Heroic posted:Can you imagine the fervor that would be generated if BMW did a concept of a contemporary E30 though? Like an N52 powered model with modern interior and creature comforts; it would be incredible. People would no doubt line up with their $$$ if it could be done. In the RC world (where I work) there have been a number of companies that have cashed in on nostalgia re-release in the past decade and they have made a mint doing it. it would probably look like poo poo, OP 2018 bmw isnt the same company that built the e30 if anything you might see a restomod version of the e30m3 like singer, with a carbon body and a modernized version of the s14.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:15
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Yeah I don't doubt a contemporary limited re-release of the e30 (especially the M3) would sell like hot cakes. There is enough demand for it to probably be quite profitable for BMW in the short-term, but again I think it ties into the idea that no auto-manufacturer want's to look like they've stagnated and that people prefer their older models.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:18
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Somewhat Heroic posted:Can you imagine the fervor that would be generated if BMW did a concept of a contemporary E30 though? Like an N52 powered model with modern interior and creature comforts; it would be incredible. People would no doubt line up with their $$$ if it could be done. In the RC world (where I work) there have been a number of companies that have cashed in on nostalgia re-release in the past decade and they have made a mint doing it. I think you're grossly overstating the size of the addressable market. Costs are a major factor - if in that link it cost Lotus over $50m and 16 months just to bring the Elise over WITHOUT smart airbags (they got a waiver, and remember that once the waiver expired they stopped selling the Else, and it was the same story for the Evora too) - so let's say factor in 2x - or $100m for a tiny production car? - and then you have to factor in repair and supply chain/parts inventory and dealer support and training and marketing and all the parts and pieces that come along with this sort of endeavor. So hundreds of millions in investment to produce a car that will have poor NVH by modern standards, probably poor structural rigidity and an inability to pass modern crash test standards unless you're going to apply for waivers for such things, in which case you're going to be limited to 325 units sold or less - the math just quite literally doesn't add up. Edit: also PS if you all hadn't noticed we're in the middle of what's being described as a "sedan recession" so for BMW to spend $100s of millions on R&D for a nostalgia piece - versus say pump out another hideous CUV - well, mgmt is going to aim to minimize risk and do the latter. Tremek fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 18:23
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BraveUlysses posted:it would probably look like poo poo, OP Is there anyone out there selling turn key restomod e30s yet? Start with any e30 body and strip it and make it pretty, put in a honed s54 drivetrain and fresh interior. It doesn’t need to be a singer level M3 that would be $300k but could it be done for around $50-75k?
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Dec 19, 2018 18:28
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Tremek posted:Edit: also PS if you all hadn't noticed we're in the middle of what's being described as a "sedan recession" so for BMW to spend $100s of millions on R&D for a nostalgia piece - versus say pump out another hideous CUV - well, mgmt is going to aim to minimize risk and do the latter.  You have killed any and all buzz.Modus Man posted:Is there anyone out there selling turn key restomod e30s yet? Start with any e30 body and strip it and make it pretty, put in a honed s54 drivetrain and fresh interior. Clean, lowish mileage E30 M3's sell at that price all day long without restoration. To rebuild S14 blocks is like a $15K built or something these days. NitroSpazzz would probably know what the current costs are better than anyone else.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:34
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Modus Man posted:Is there anyone out there selling turn key restomod e30s yet? Start with any e30 body and strip it and make it pretty, put in a honed s54 drivetrain and fresh interior. there's always going to a be a few shops out there who can tackle something like that this guy did a m54 swap and resto and sold this car for a pretty penny https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=383897
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Dec 19, 2018 18:41
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Modus Man posted:Is there anyone out there selling turn key restomod e30s yet? Start with any e30 body and strip it and make it pretty, put in a honed s54 drivetrain and fresh interior. It really couldn't, at the very least not in the US or Europe. Developing a process, learning from your mistakes and eating those R&D costs, paying skilled craftsmen to make, repair, replace, and improve, sourcing interior bits and making new pieces (such as seat skins and dash covers) where the old pieces are NLA - and then catering to a market where your customers are invariably well-heeled 1%ers who are going to ask for bespoke touches - is hideously expensive. Factor in profit and I don't think you could do this, even at modest scale (say - dozens of cars a year) without charging $150k on up and more likely well north of $200k per unit. Look at ICON 4x4 in California as an example of how to do it right; I doubt anything they make today leaves the shop for less than $200k.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:49
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It’s weird how the e92 is really sexy but the e90 sedan is super ugly. It almost seems deliberate.
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Dec 19, 2018 21:29
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:It’s weird how the e92 is really sexy but the e90 sedan is super ugly. It almost seems deliberate. Sorry, but your opinion is flipped, at least for the M3
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Dec 19, 2018 23:15
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sedans look better than coupes 99% of the time change my mind
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Dec 19, 2018 23:59
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Infinotize posted:sedans look better than coupes 99% of the time change my mind Wrong. Hope that clears things up.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:08
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Infinotize posted:sedans look better than coupes 99% of the time change my mind Literally every American car
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Dec 20, 2018 00:10
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NumbersMatching320 posted:Literally every American car Uh... Now that the ATS is dead, is there even a single same-model coupe/sedan in production?
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Dec 20, 2018 01:48
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Tremek posted:Uh... Now that the ATS is dead, is there even a single same-model coupe/sedan in production? jeep wrangler
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Dec 20, 2018 02:30
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Tremek posted:Uh... Now that the ATS is dead, is there even a single same-model coupe/sedan in production? I judge the charger and challenger as the same thing mainly because I can’t remember which is which.
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Dec 20, 2018 02:46
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Infinotize posted:sedans look better than coupes 99% of the time change my mind * only applies to models that have both, e.g. e90/e92, bmw 3/4, audi 4dr 4&5/2dr 5, etc
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Dec 20, 2018 03:03
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Infinotize posted:sedans look better than coupes 99% of the time change my mind Infinotize posted:* only applies to models that have both, e.g. e90/e92, bmw 3/4, audi 4dr 4&5/2dr 5, etc Hell, same.
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Dec 20, 2018 07:34
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