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Japanese comedy and daytime shows are a wasteland, but its pretty rare for these kinds of jokes to be in manga/anime/games these days. Obviously it still happens sometimes, but theyre aware that foreign audiencrs exist and nerd stuff in japan tends to be at least slightly more socially aware than daytime television. Youd never see blackface in a major rpg release, either, but that comes up on daytime japanese tv sometimes. Also 'nonexistant pressure', a major magazine just got canned and there was huge backlash over anti-gay remarks made by a politician. Political pressure over these things exists in Japan. Anyway, as for translation, it depends on context, theres no one size fits all solution.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:08
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Really though the reason to be mildly optimiestic about persona 6 in this regard is the staff change up. Not blaming like, literally one guy for this, but the facts are that lit. Every game the p3-p5 director has had significant say in (including nocturne) has poo poo like that, the dude constantly puts his foot in his mouth in interviews, the one major persona release hes been uninvolved with (p3p) significantly walked that stuff back, and other games from atlus dont have these issues, like etrian odyssey v just had lesbian side characters. Its not a stretch to think that maybe now that he and his team are gone things might be different.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:15
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:It's not very surprising that Japan is still using these kinds of jokes, because over there jokes that would we would consider transphobic are often still genuinely considered funny. Just off the top of my head, in both of the Batsu Game episodes of "Downtown no Gaki no Tsukai ya Arahende!!" I watched (24 Hour Tag and Pie Hell), both segments had gags that basically mirrored a joke made in one of the Persona games that someone mentioned in the RPG thread which resulted in every other comedian there totally losing it. I'm just gonna go ahead and say they're not gonna cave into this almost non-existent pressure and P6 is gonna be more of the same, so just prepare yourself for disappointment now. I don't think two old comedy specials show anything meaningful. If transphobic jokes face no criticism in Japan and everyone loves them then Persona shouldn't stick out, but it does. They also definitely received more public lgbtq criticism after P5 than they did for P3 or P4 (which came out in 2008, remember.) Social attitudes can change quickly. President Obama publicly opposed gay marriage until 2012. We'll see what happens when the new Catherine comes out. It looks like the new content might be a trainwreck. They might even be trying to stoke controversy to juice interest in it though. FWIW I don't think Atlus USA would make large content changes to the games to paper over homophobic or transphobic content. The weeb audience is hyper sensitive to things like that and it would definitely just draw more attention to whatever they were trying to remove. I was already assuming that they were massaging the dialogue of those scenes, though.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:25
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Endorph posted:Anyway, as for translation, it depends on context, theres no one size fits all solution. Yeah, I've heard horror stories of trying to translate jokes from folks who work on manga. How do you translate a joke that is based on the fact the word looks like something written in Japanese without either copious footnotes (which wouldn't work very well in a game) or just making a regular ol' pun?
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Dec 20, 2018 00:32
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mostly you just have to tear out the original joke and replace it with a new one. 90% of the time if you're reading any kind of pun in a translation, its just something the translators came up with. at most it might have the same, like, subject, as the original japanese, but for instance I'd say a good 50% of the dialogue in Splatoon is just totally made up because so much of that game's dialogue is just squid puns no matter what language you're reading it in.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:38
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Endorph posted:Really though the reason to be mildly optimiestic about persona 6 in this regard is the staff change up. Not blaming like, literally one guy for this, but the facts are that lit. Every game the p3-p5 director has had significant say in (including nocturne) has poo poo like that, the dude constantly puts his foot in his mouth in interviews, the one major persona release hes been uninvolved with (p3p) significantly walked that stuff back, and other games from atlus dont have these issues, like etrian odyssey v just had lesbian side characters. Hadn't heard about the staff shake up, but I'm happy to hear about it. Overall I felt Persona 5 was a pretty mixed bag, and while I was never upset by some of the off color jokes in the series I'm going to be relieved to (hopefully) see them gone. The game's proved they could be funny without crap like that, and I'd rather they stick to what works.
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Dec 20, 2018 02:42
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P4 was the first game in the series they tried to make into an outright comedy and man it had a lot of not good jokes. Case in point: literally every single line of Teddie dialogue. I totally lose interest in all the social scenes of the team hanging out once Teddie leaves the TV
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Dec 20, 2018 02:46
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Shinjobi posted:The game's proved they could be funny
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Dec 20, 2018 03:23
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HIJK posted:Opinions are going to vary wildly on the previous persona games just like they do now, there’s never going to be some grand consensus. I dunno, things have already changed from my perspective. A few years ago I encountered nothing but endless praise for 3 and 4, especially the latter. They were routinely considered for best JRPGs of all time. Then again, maybe I'm letting a few recent posts on here and on Reddit (there are a few sus that aren't terrible) give me a false impression about the changing tide and a lot of people would still swear these games are contenders for GOAT.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:26
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:P4 was the first game in the series they tried to make into an outright comedy and man it had a lot of not good jokes. Case in point: literally every single line of Teddie dialogue. I totally lose interest in all the social scenes of the team hanging out once Teddie leaves the TV Would you say he was... ...unbearable?
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Dec 20, 2018 03:33
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NikkolasKing posted:Then again, maybe I'm letting a few recent posts on here and on Reddit (there are a few sus that aren't terrible) give me a false impression about the changing tide and a lot of people would still swear these games are contenders for GOAT. It's this.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:33
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The Persona games have always been flawed but from P3 onwards they've also been really good (arguably P2 as well). It's also much easier to talk specifics when it comes to what goes wrong rather than what goes right, and the Persona games do a lot of things right.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:38
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Endorph posted:I question this diagnosis It doesn't take much to make me chuckle. I won't begrudge anyone who disagrees with me on the games being funny. Theres plenty of hits and misses in each.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:39
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NikkolasKing posted:Then again, maybe I'm letting a few recent posts on here and on Reddit (there are a few sus that aren't terrible) give me a false impression about the changing tide and a lot of people would still swear these games are contenders for GOAT. Everybody lost their poo poo when Joker got announced for Smash. Persona games are still reigning supreme in the JRPG market and the recent tide of criticism is absolutely a minority opinion, regardless of how accurate their assertions are. e: I mean poo poo, Persona 4 got TWO animes
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Dec 20, 2018 03:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Then again, maybe I'm letting a few recent posts on here and on Reddit (there are a few sus that aren't terrible) give me a false impression about the changing tide and a lot of people would still swear these games are contenders for GOAT. Xarbala posted:The Persona games have always been flawed but from P3 onwards they've also been really good (arguably P2 as well). It's also much easier to talk specifics when it comes to what goes wrong rather than what goes right, and the Persona games do a lot of things right. They're games with great concepts that bumble the details in a lot of ways.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Then again, maybe I'm letting a few recent posts on here and on Reddit (there are a few sus that aren't terrible) give me a false impression about the changing tide and a lot of people would still swear these games are contenders for GOAT. It's absolutely this. The games have reached the point of public consensus of 'great' and now like every time that has ever happened in the history of forever a very vocal anti-fandom has popped up. Don't get me wrong, they have problems, big ones that are absolutely worth addressing in both gameplay and social statements, but they're still going down in history alongside the greats.
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Dec 20, 2018 03:52
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Endorph posted:Persona 5 won tons of awards and there's thousands of people who think it's insanely woke. The polygon reviewer got yelled at for giving it a 9/10 and saying the gay jokes were kinda weird. That conspiracy plot was one reason I really couldn't take P5 seriously. Why is a high school principal part of Shido's bid to take over a country? Just seemed like an extremely lazy and incoherent way to fit in with the anti-authority message by making all authorities tied together, even if it made no sense. Flytrap posted:It's absolutely this. The games have reached the point of public consensus of 'great' and now like every time that has ever happened in the history of forever a very vocal anti-fandom has popped up. I won't lie, I thought P4G was one of the best JRPGs I've ever played, warts and all.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:02
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NikkolasKing posted:That conspiracy plot was one reason I really couldn't take P5 seriously. Why is a high school principal part of Shido's bid to take over a country? On the other hand, Joker's explicitly going to a shithole high school for troublemakers where the only thing they have to their name is a decent sports program, and even then it's implied Kameshida only wound up there because he washed out of other avenues after his olympic run. So that principal being in on everything makes no sense.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:08
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NikkolasKing posted:That conspiracy plot was one reason I really couldn't take P5 seriously. Why is a high school principal part of Shido's bid to take over a country? The head of a prestigious school in the capital, who has power over the children of relatively powerful figures in the country isn't that much of a stretch. And I didn't really have a problem with cardboard cutout "shadowy figure" being Sae's boss getting killed off screen by the traitor.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:09
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Everybody lost their poo poo when Joker got announced for Smash. Persona games are still reigning supreme in the JRPG market and the recent tide of criticism is absolutely a minority opinion, regardless of how accurate their assertions are. And one of those animes had some good parts!
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Dec 20, 2018 04:14
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:And one of those animes had some good parts!
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Dec 20, 2018 04:16
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Endorph posted:On the other hand, Joker's explicitly going to a shithole high school for troublemakers where the only thing they have to their name is a decent sports program, and even then it's implied Kameshida only wound up there because he washed out of other avenues after his olympic run. So that principal being in on everything makes no sense. Weird Makoto and Haru were going to a school like that.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:38
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The principal would have been able to recruit or groom people capable of working outside the law, or recruit people with wealth and power. No one needs to get up to Shido's level, but the principal still had access to a lot of people that could be useful.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:48
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Dang, this Jack-O-Lantern figure coming next year looks great  link because of cheesecake figures on the same page
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Dec 20, 2018 04:49
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Dawgstar posted:Weird Makoto and Haru were going to a school like that. Yeah I think the idea that Shujin is a delinquent-only school is not true and just made up. My question is what school does Akechi go to, the same one Yusuke does, right? If he went to Shujin, I could totally see why the Minister/Shido would want someone on their side managing it, but without it I'd struggle to find a good in-fiction reason within the game. This is going much farther than the game though about this, but the subway issue happened before the MC even moves to Tokyo, so the assassinations have been going on for at least a while before the events of the game, even before MC's run-in with Shido. So, it's possible that Shujin was involved with one of his smaller-scale plans of general influence-spreading. There's a TON of people on board his ship, so it sort of makes sense he would try to diversify his bonds, as it were, in terms of who and what he's trying to use to grow his brand.
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Dec 20, 2018 04:52
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i thought joker was considered a "charity case" more or less so shujin could take in a "trouble student" to show off their progressive chops?
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Dec 20, 2018 04:57
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The Animation is pretty quick. Episode 6 and they are already in Madrame's Museum Palace. It's so weird seeing how they just cruise through the storyline.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:00
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Yeah, Shujin is supposed to be a fairly elite school. Ryuji talks a lot about how his mom sacrifices a ton to pay his tuition, Haru and Makoto are there as it's considered a straight shot to college and in the opening exposition they take Joker as a big sign of an altruistic charity case.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:10
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if shujin's meant to be elite they do a pretty bad job portraying it with stuff like kawakami being the main teacher we see, then
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Dec 20, 2018 05:12
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Kawakami is a burnout teaching the fuckup second years/kids who are on the admins bad list. The ones they don't give a gently caress about and don't really want to succeed.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:18
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Also despite Kamoshida being bad, the school was running a world-recognized volleyball program. I transferred schools in middle school and my math credits didn't move over, so I had to retake pre-algebra and from there was on the lowest possible math track, so by my senior year I was only in Algebra 2 along with all the other people who were taking it like their 2nd time, where no one in the class cared and then one kid went home because he used the stapler on his head and bled everywhere that's Joker's class.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:32
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Also despite Kamoshida being bad, the school was running a world-recognized volleyball program. For real?!!?!?!
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Dec 20, 2018 05:43
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NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, things have already changed from my perspective. A few years ago I encountered nothing but endless praise for 3 and 4, especially the latter. They were routinely considered for best JRPGs of all time. Final Fantasy 7 gets a similar treatment, has a whiny anti-fandom that doesn’t like FF7 being touted everywhere. Doesn’t change that Persona 4 and FF7 are still some of the greatest JRPGs ever made with devoted fanbases, I don’t care what other flaws they have.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:50
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Endorph posted:if shujin's meant to be elite they do a pretty bad job portraying it with stuff like kawakami being the main teacher we see, then Well they make it clear that Kawakami is actually a pretty excellent, dedicated teacher that's been burnt out working an escort service to pay of the ever increasing debts revolving around the death of a student that she clearly takes as her own fault.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:06
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HIJK posted:Final Fantasy 7 gets a similar treatment, has a whiny anti-fandom that doesn’t like FF7 being touted everywhere. i completely agree. I really wish I still had my copy of P4G.... So who can you romance in the game? There's Chie, Yukiko, Rise, Marie and...? Unlike P5 you can't get with any of the adults, right? You can definitely do stuff with the nurse but I don't think that leads to a romance. Just curious who has the best Valentine's? Also I know a lot of people don't like the Temperance S Link but I did. I actually remember it very well and felt it was refreshingly normal and sweet.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:11
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NikkolasKing posted:i completely agree. I really wish I still had my copy of P4G.... You also have Music or Drama girl(the Sun links based on which club you join) AI (Moon link girl) and Naoto.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:19
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Zore posted:You also have Music or Drama girl(the Sun links based on which club you join) AI (Moon link girl) and Naoto. Oh poo poo how did I forget Naoto. I actually never did her S link during my first run. Well, I did some of it but it was kinda dull so I stopped. Also maybe I forgot her because I shipped her and Kanji. Speaking of 4 being problematic, a big load of criticism falls on her S Link and making hr wear a dress. Apparently it's choice-based though so you don't have to do it which is a relief. Thanks for the reply.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:25
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NikkolasKing posted:Speaking of 4 being problematic, a big load of criticism falls on her S Link and making hr wear a dress Uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh why
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Dec 20, 2018 06:32
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Flytrap posted:Well they make it clear that Kawakami is actually a pretty excellent, dedicated teacher that's been burnt out working an escort service to pay of the ever increasing debts revolving around the death of a student that she clearly takes as her own fault. In a sense working like this was to her a penance for letting someone die because she never told him to find a balance between both his academic and work life which was what was needed for him which by then was too late.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:36
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NikkolasKing posted:i completely agree. I really wish I still had my copy of P4G.... Dumb personal opinion but Chie actually has pretty good romance scenes. Rise is okay. Naoto is eh. Yukiko is forgettable.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:43
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