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You gotta hand it to the DPRK, they’ve become master knife twisters when it comes to dealing with the Big Orange Turd. Though “wait until Trump naturally falls face-first into a pile of his own poo poo and then press your foot on the back of his head to smear his face in it” isn’t exactly a hard strategy. Now to pray that the EU and other places with Trump hotel properties start talking about nationalization of said properties due to Trump’s racism/sexism/general idiocy and bigotry, and we’ll have a fully broken Trump to start 2019.
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Dec 20, 2018 12:58
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VorpalBunny posted:What about all the recent ballot issues where we voted in all these extra taxes to fund public schools statewide? We should be flush with cash! gently caress, this is infuriating. Edit: https://i.imgur.com/PFQZopc.gifv
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Dec 20, 2018 13:00
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Haven't they been saying this for years?
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Dec 20, 2018 13:01
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Doctor Butts posted:Haven't they been saying this for years? Yes, but what makes it significant now is that they're still saying it even after our big strong boy President Solved The North Korea Problem (or so he thinks). It's really just more egg on Peepants' face.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:04
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The whole "wah wah wah stop supporting the foreverwar" is the dumbest possible take since what we're actually going to do by pulling out is start another one. This is 100% handing turkey a permission slip to start a war and annex some borderland and massacre them some kurds. The US is absolutely responsible for the upcoming genocide by turkey, we're funding it and supplying it and spoiler alert we'll be giving logistical support to a NATO ally. This poo poo was finally starting to settle down but the lines weren't in the places we want so open up the bloodgates and let's move them! Doctor Butts posted:Haven't they been saying this for years? Didn't he get trump to agree with it because wormbrain ignored or forgot everyone explaining to him what it meant?
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Dec 20, 2018 13:20
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It's horrifying to me that a substantial portion of this thread seems to believe that a genocide or massacre of the Kurds is perfectly OK because we know a priori and with certainty that any US military action (even the presence of advisers who exist solely to deter a massacre) would have worse consequences. It's possible to believe that 1) US interventionism over the past 30-40 years has generally had negative consequences, 2) that we're more or less responsible for how bad things are now, and that 3) immediately abandoning our allies and allowing them to be murdered is STILL A BAD THING that is in fact worse than the alternatives. Personally I think we should tell Erdogan to gently caress right off and offer fullhearted support for a Kurdish state, because I don't see why the gently caress we should consider ourselves allied with the man who's jailed more journalists than any other leader. But even if you disagree with me, it's a false dichotomy that the only choices are WITHDRAW EVERYTHING NOW or FOREVER WAR, and if you really think those are the only two options that you're a loving moron. We could easily allow a token number of US troops to remain as a deterrent while working to negotiate safe zones for the Kurds in Syria. The long term risks of leaving some advisers around to deter Erdogan are very very low, and the upside in terms of lives saved is very high. We can exercise substantial leverage over Turkey to achieve this. And not every use of the US military is morally/politically/legally equivalent to the Iraq war. There are some instances where immediately withdrawing our forces will almost certainly have far worse consequences than allowing them to remain, and this is one of those cases. I sincerely hope that none of you ever has to be in a situation like the Kurds are now, but I think that if y'all were, you'd very quickly reconsider your "genocide is bad but trying to stop it is even worse! and we don't want to stop it for the right reasons so why bother!" view. That's a very... privileged... view to take of the situation.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:27
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axeil posted:How soul-crushing is Shake Hands with the Devil? I've imagined it's one of the most difficult books to read because of how horribly humanity hosed up and how easily we could've stopped it. I've wanted to read it for a while but I'm worried it'll make me catatonic with despair. it's not that bad, in large part because the book isn't just about rwanda, it's also about dallaire. it's not especially well written. to some other posters: the UN forces on the ground had a good idea that the radical hutus were planning for a genocide, although they didn't expect that these same forces would kill off the rwandan president and use it as a pretext to seize power and start the killing. they had informants in the rwandan military and government who told them about weapon caches, kill lists, etc. the politically 'grosser' part is the role the french played. the french forced the civil war to end in 1990, and in 1994 when they sent troops in they refused to have be part of the on the ground UN forces, and seized part of the territory still controlled by hutus and set up a hutu 'safe zone' in which: hutu forces still killed tutsi civilians, but used the french arrival to drive them out of hiding; important hutu political figures who organized the killing fled and were given protection by the french; paved the way for the ensuing two congo civil wars. france did all of this because they didn't like how close the tutsi forces were to the US. they even smuggled the president's wife out of the country, and she was one of the key architects of the genocide (even though she claimed sanctuary). she secretly lived in france for like twenty years.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:28
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Why Syria and not Myanmar? If we can't know whether or not US military action would have worse consequences, I think it'd be wiser to invest the resources in the many places where there is improvement that can be predicted and measured, not even necessarily domestically but also abroad in foreign aid. Advocates of war always present "doing nothing" as the alternative when allocating the resources differently is the actual alternative.
galenanorth fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 13:29
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The Kurds and their regional arab allies were in the middle of actually building a viable proto state with fuctioning institutions and actual representative democracy with tribal councils and and ... I know a couple of NGO and humanitarian workers there both kurdish and arab and they all tell me now they have no choice but to flee... If turkey doesnt get them then Assad definitly will when his Mukhbarat and military intelligence rolls in... Anyone whom supports this decision is basically spouting a "gently caress you got mine" stance.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:37
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If we're looking at legislation to deter future adventurism how about something that creates guaranteed and expedited processes for domestically resettling the "allies" that we "help?"
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Dec 20, 2018 13:40
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https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1075641602696196096 that is some pretty harsh language from DPRKquote:“The United States must now recognize the accurate meaning of the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, and especially, must study geography,” the statement said.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:41
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I guess in life one has to take the little moments where one can, such as the DPRK being outraged that someone would negotiate in bad faith.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:47
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:If we're looking at legislation to deter future adventurism how about something that creates guaranteed and expedited processes for domestically resettling the "allies" that we "help?" We've had specific legislation for everyone from the Hmong to the Montagnards to interpreters/informants in Iraq and Afghanistan. We still screw them over.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:54
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 "...and, especially, must study geography."Well I can't say it's not true.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:56
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075732375169060869
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Dec 20, 2018 13:58
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I guess in life one has to take the little moments where one can, such as the DPRK being outraged that someone would negotiate in bad faith.  nahThey are playing Trump for the exact kind of dumbfuck sucker he is.
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Dec 20, 2018 13:58
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075729672628068353
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Dec 20, 2018 14:00
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I may just be a centrist mainstream liberal, who is adjacent to fascist apparently, but I think y'all are really overthinking this. Even if you believe non-intervention is the superior policy, either in abstract or in Syria in particular, you should be opposed here. Donald Trump, without any advisement from his military or foreign policy advisors, has made a sudden, bizarre, and major decision about a country he likely can't identify on a map. This decision directly benefits Turkey, and indirectly benefits KSA and Russia. New av says we get a "Kushner was pushing the decision" article in the next two months.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:01
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Eagerly awaiting the @popehat display name change to PerfectBorderSecurityHat
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Dec 20, 2018 14:02
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Thank you for owning political deadlock and possible shutdown, AGAIN Mr. President!
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Dec 20, 2018 14:06
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North Korea legitimately torn down test sites and closed up facilities associated with their nuclear program. The problem is they already mostly perfected their ICBM tech and they have enough nuclear material to make all the bombs they’ll need for 50 years. All they wanted was the ability to hit the US. All they need is one missile with at least a 50 percent chance of success and no American President will risk a first strike. North Korea will never give up their nukes. All they’ve done is promise not to expand their program, which was so expensive it’s probably to their benefit to scale it back.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:07
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gently caress, he is not going to sign the stopgap bill. All his Fox Friends hurt his feefees and now he is going to pout.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:13
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friendbot2000 posted:gently caress, he is not going to sign the stopgap bill. All his Fox Friends hurt his feefees and now he is going to pout. I interpret this to mean he will sign the stopgap, as the last bill by republican controlled congress, but will use the wall as his excuse to ignore all legislation passed by the new house.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:15
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Yes, clearly the reason that people are unwilling to walk outside for thousands of miles at the tail end of December when they were willing to do so in summer and early fall must be because of Trump. I can't think of any other explanation.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:16
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eke out posted:holy poo poo who sends a 20 page unsolicited memo to the DOJ Someone who knows it’ll get them looked at for the (soon to be) open DOJ spot. Looks like it worked.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:18
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Gnumonic posted:Personally I think we should tell Erdogan to gently caress right off and offer fullhearted support for a Kurdish state, because I don't see why the gently caress we should consider ourselves allied with the man who's jailed more journalists than any other leader. But even if you disagree with me, it's a false dichotomy that the only choices are WITHDRAW EVERYTHING NOW or FOREVER WAR, and if you really think those are the only two options that you're a loving moron. We could easily allow a token number of US troops to remain as a deterrent while working to negotiate safe zones for the Kurds in Syria. The long term risks of leaving some advisers around to deter Erdogan are very very low, and the upside in terms of lives saved is very high. We can exercise substantial leverage over Turkey to achieve this. And not every use of the US military is morally/politically/legally equivalent to the Iraq war. There are some instances where immediately withdrawing our forces will almost certainly have far worse consequences than allowing them to remain, and this is one of those cases. So in effect, the US should push Turkey and control of the Bosphorus to Russia and astroturf a kurdish state for __________________________ reasons. Liberal interventionism will work this time and not fail miserably because ___________________ Gnumonic posted:I sincerely hope that none of you ever has to be in a situation like the Kurds are now, but I think that if y'all were, you'd very quickly reconsider your "genocide is bad but trying to stop it is even worse! and we don't want to stop it for the right reasons so why bother!" view. That's a very... privileged... view to take of the situation. Privilege baiting people for not supporting an imperial occupation is a new one. If only the germans were savvy enough to frame generalplan ost in woke terms, American liberals would be lining up to defend them.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:20
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non-intervention isn't superior to actual humanitarian intervention - it's just we so rarely act when we should that it's unlikely we;'d do the right thing even if we said we are. the rwanda genocide would've been relatively easy to stop (the hardest part would've been the american public's recalcitrance after black hawk down but sometimes you have to do the right thing even if it's unpopular) but instead we do stuff like invade iraq with a force several orders of magnitudes larger based on lies. i know those are different admins but this is most of our history - we commit criminal acts and claim it's in the name of democracy or human rights and then DON'T intervene when that's actually an issue. with kosovo the bombing killed hundreds of civilians and civilian infrastructure. even when we do intervene for legitimate humanitarian reasons we do it the wrong way.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:22
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Yes, we all know the caravan was a single thing, and it did what we all knew it would do from the start and yes, we all know Republicans tried to pump it up to scare people for the election. We all know this.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:22
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LegendaryFrog posted:I interpret this to mean he will sign the stopgap, as the last bill by republican controlled congress, but will use the wall as his excuse to ignore all legislation passed by the new house. Anything making it out of a divided Congress is likely gonna be veto-proof. mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 14:23
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So...you won't be signing the CR, then, you fat gently caress? Good luck owning the shutdown!
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Dec 20, 2018 14:28
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mango sentinel posted:Anything making it out of a divided House is likely gonna be veto-proof. Budgets almost certainly won't be.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:28
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1075524939699101697 He is also going to veto the heart beat abortion ban
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Dec 20, 2018 14:30
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He seems really hung up on the steel slats thing. Did he just buy a steel mill?
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Dec 20, 2018 14:31
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnKasich/status/1075524939699101697 He’s going to run as some kind of new socially liberal, fiscally conservative republican. The question is, does he primary trump or run third party?
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Dec 20, 2018 14:32
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Gnumonic posted:But even if you disagree with me, it's a false dichotomy that the only choices are WITHDRAW EVERYTHING NOW or FOREVER WAR, and if you really think those are the only two options that you're a loving moron. There are a large number of posters here with untreated mental illness and are unable to see nuance in things because their brains are sick.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:35
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Doctor Butts posted:Haven't they been saying this for years? Yeah and it was what smart people were saying when Trump was declaring the problem solved. DPRK has used this language in every negotiation and it's a big part of why things never go anywhere. He would have known that if he gave a poo poo, but well, you know the rest.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:38
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Jealous Cow posted:He’s going to run as some kind of new socially liberal, fiscally conservative republican. The question is, does he primary trump or run third party? Jesus. If we get a second term of Trump because this rear end in a top hat sees a glimmer of a chance at being a third party President and gently caress the rest of the world, then we really do live in the most hell dimension in the multiverse.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:39
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So ... the wall isn't necessary then?
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Dec 20, 2018 14:40
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Jealous Cow posted:He’s going to run as some kind of new socially liberal, fiscally conservative republican. The question is, does he primary trump or run third party? Primaries Trump, gets clobbered, and spends the rest of his life as the Never-Trump spokesperson who constantly laments the death of the Republican Party even as he continues to support its most pernicious principles.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:42
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075721703421042688 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075726666574544896 i love how he could make something that should be a good idea if done right and all the bad reasons and poo poo. also i thought ISIS was dead. guess not according to trump.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:46
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