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Binary Logic posted:I'd rather see Angelina again than Professor Over Explainer. There's a great interview with Josh Wigler where Christian actually goes over some of the other stuff he said during the six hour challenge. Some of it was game related; he asked Probst if they were ever gonna do another auction again (he said probably not  ). The Reuben comment was actually part of a larger point about food temptations during challenges.  But you're actually in luck: Jeff 100% agrees with you that he would bring back Angelina ahead of everyone else in this cast. He loves her. Plus, apparently Christian's now a tenure track professor with his own program at the University where he teaches, so it's very unlikely that he will be able to take off to play Survivor again any time in the next several years without seriously damaging his career. And that last part was Natalie, not Angelina. Man, I almost forgot about Natalie. It feels like she was on a different season. Spergatory fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 13:55
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In terms of returnees, at least in my opinion, I don't just want to bring back the entertaining players, but also people who actually have a legitimate chance of winning if they came back. Whether it be because they have a better playing field, or didn't get swap or advantage screwed, or decided to fix the mistakes they did the first time round. I don't want another Phillip Shepard where they brought him back just because he was made for TV. So could Angelina work on her perceptiveness and fix her game and come back and win? It'd be hard, but I think it'd be possible. She's got the kernels of a strategist, she just needs the finesse. As for people who I'd bring back: Natalia John Alec Davie Alison Kara Angelina Nick As for people who were teetering on the edge: Gabby: Honestly, I didn't expect to want her back. Her last episode and her demeanor at the FTC almost won me over though. If we'd seen more of that Gabby over the season, I'd be on board. But so much of her game was tied to Christian that I wasn't sure if she has the emotional stability to make it through premerge without a rock if she were to play again. I could be wrong (and I hope I'm wrong!), and that she's gotten enough self confidence to do it. Christian: I know, it's heathen that I don't have him as a lock to come back. And I liked Christian more than I expected to. But I'm not sure he can win if he came back. His threat level's too magnified. And even then, if I'm being honest, I didn't actually see much gameplay from Christian over the season. He didn't pull off any big moves. He has a social game, but he couldn't float under the radar like Kara or Mike. If and when he came back, he'd likely be doomed to be gone mid merge like a Zeke or Andrea or Malcolm. Again, I could be wrong. Mike: I actually really turned around on Mike the last few episodes, having written him off as a non entity for almost the entire season. He's got the likability factor, he's got drive, and he does have some strategy. But I don't see him changing up his gameplay enough to make for a win. Him and Kara actually played very similar games, but I think Mike is just a little too catty.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:02
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Spergatory posted:There's a great interview with Josh Wigler where Christian actually goes over some of the other stuff he said during the six hour challenge. Some of it was game related; he asked Probst if they were ever gonna do another auction again (he said probably not Natalie. That's what I get for staying up late to watch the reunion show and KIA then posting before I've finished a morning coffee. Returning player season idea: Mike White & team of returning players vs (wait for it...) Jack Black with a bunch of young people. Call the season School of Voting Block.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:43
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ApplesandOranges posted:Mike: I actually really turned around on Mike the last few episodes, having written him off as a non entity for almost the entire season. He's got the likability factor, he's got drive, and he does have some strategy. But I don't see him changing up his gameplay enough to make for a win. Him and Kara actually played very similar games, but I think Mike is just a little too catty. I think you might be underselling Mike a little. I feel like if that final three is the same but Nick didn't go on that immunity run at the end then it's really possible that Mike swings two votes his way.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:11
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I wasn't expecting Angelina to be a woman of color, so that was a bombshell for me during the FTC. Edit: nevermind I'm dumb. Didn't realize she was Latina AWarmBody fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 15:28
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STAC Goat posted:And Angelina is just pure "lol". The ladder/rock nonsense. "I could have died!" Sincerely believing she's been running the game. "I feel like a mob boss." Orchestrating votes against herself so she can use an idol. Crafting a fake idol just to try and trick Allison into embarrassing herself. Nick openly choosing to take her because he thinks he can beat her and her sincerely thinking she manipulated him. And of course her rationalizing that we're laughing with her and not at her and that she's just being judged for being "aggressive". Being the person who joins up with Natalie to complain about her narrative. Angelina is completely insane and the pettiest person and its hilarious. Arguably the most delusional player we've seen since Coach, and that's really saying something. There's lack of self awareness, and then there's Angelina. Her alternating between trying to position herself as a champion for women but also bragging about flirting her way out of traffic tickets and allegedly being involved in a showmance as a married woman is also an interesting position to take.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:45
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IcePhoenix posted:I think you might be underselling Mike a little. I feel like if that final three is the same but Nick didn't go on that immunity run at the end then it's really possible that Mike swings two votes his way. It's tricky with Mike, because, as he's self-admitted, he doesn't need the money. Survivor is a journey for him. And, according to his exit press, while he was fine fighting for the title, it was difficult for him campaigning to take the money away from someone else, and he was more hesitant about decrying Nick/Angelina's games. Not that he couldn't win, I think there's a potential winner in him. But it feels like his story arc is done, he's been on Survivor, and his own empathy makes it difficult for him to be ruthless if he was at FTC.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:45
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's tricky with Mike, because, as he's self-admitted, he doesn't need the money. Survivor is a journey for him. And, according to his exit press, while he was fine fighting for the title, it was difficult for him campaigning to take the money away from someone else, and he was more hesitant about decrying Nick/Angelina's games. That's a fair assessment. But he still got three votes, and I can't help but feel like Nick winning the last three immunities helped his case immensely.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:48
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Oh, those immunities definitely helped Nick. I think Nick would still have won without those immunities, because being the last David and relying on your social game to carry you through the last three votes? That'd be good to sell, too. But I still think that if it were up to me, I wouldn't bring Mike back. In his case, not because he couldn't win, but because I don't think he could shove other people when it came time to push. But that's not a bad thing, and I feel he's probably done with Survivor anyway.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:58
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Yeah, if Nick doesn't win those immunities, he's gone. I don't care what Angelina thinks would happen or what Mike promises. None of them have any reason to take him. You don't have a David at the end to allow the theme of the season to play out. Even if the jurors claim they wouldn't vote based on that, it's there regardless to affect them. And if Nick was getting pissy after the tribals near the end I don't blame him. Being constantly reassured by his "alliance" that they're on his side after they constantly vote against him is a big hit to take. He did well to never actually directly throw it back in their face. "Oh thanks for betraying me again Mike, let me pull this knife out of my back so you can have it back."
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Dec 20, 2018 16:19
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Binary Logic posted:Edge pf Extinction?! People like all four of those, yeah. I feel like we've seen enough of Wentworth (she's not topping her moment of playing an idol correctly and taking Savage out while the majority is too lazy to split votes) but she's a fine pick for a three time player. I've had more than enough Joe but Survivor loves hyping up a different Golden Boy every five years or so.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:22
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I'm watching the Jury Speaks videos and making notes as I go. Some interesting stuff: CHRISTIAN - was very impressed by Mike's game and his ability to guile people into thinking he was not a threat by using his Rich Guy backstory. Said he always had people taking to him, and used the information well - liked Nick a lot as a human but felt he was too emotionally raw for the game of Survivor. This is a recurring theme for Nick; his emotional outbursts near the end really hurt him in the eyes of several jurors. JOHN - actually went into final tribal favoring Mike, who he called a mastermind from day 1, so at some point, either Mike lost his vote or Nick won it. - was also turned off by Nick's temper tantrum, but credited him for recognizing and owning it as a weakness, noting that he himself even called it a tantrum at the following tribal. - was impressed by Angelina's ability to "recover the ball after she fumbles," but regarded the more impressive player as the one who never fumbles to begin with. DAN - was apparently Angelina's biggest advocate on the jury and was working day and night to try and get people to see her game as impressive. Obviously it did not work, as not even Dan voted for her, but it may explain why people seemed to be a lot more open to her than I would've expected. - was impressed by Mike's strategic game, but derided his challenge performance and laziness at camp. - said Nick played the most well-rounded game, noting his camp life, immunity run, and finding and using advantages. This is another recurring theme for Nick: while everyone seemed to have issues with parts of his game, they seemed to like his game as a whole. DAVIE - was Nick's biggest jury advocate and was clearly voting for him the whole time. - credits Nick directly for telling him where to play his idol, and for playing his vote steal correctly and putting in the work to find it. - credits him with being adaptable; confirms that he was a target on day 1 for his laziness, but when Davie told him about it, he corrected it super hard to the point where his work ethic was never brought up again. - actually liked Angelina and gave her credit for her social game (???). Also said that their moms liked each other, so that was a big plus in his book. - said Mike was a nice guy and that he'd hear him out. Gave him credit for social game and voting him out. ALISON - clearly did not like Angelina. Called her disingenuous and "a farce," but gave her credit for infiltrating the Davids and playing the game as an assertive woman. - credited Mike with the Carl blindside, for some reason. Was very close to him from day 1, but felt burned by him on the way out. Obviously forgave him by the end. Was impressed with the way he used information. - Turned off by Nick's temper tantrums, was not giving him credit for things he was definitely responsible for. Was not happy with him using the vote steal on her, called it a "weak move." I, uhhh, don't think she knew what was going on very well. ELIZABETH - worked very hard to piece together what actually happened from tribals and conflicting stories from other jurors, went into final tribal with an open mind. Good on her.  - credited Mike with his social game for being friends with everybody. - confirms that Nick was targeted on day 1 but was glad the evacuation saved him because she wanted to work with him. Credited him for operating from the underdog position at nearly every phase of the game and doing it pretty well. - said Angelina actually had a great heart; thought she was being genuine and just not realizing how badly she comes across. - wanted to vote for the most "well-rounded" player. There's that phrase again. ALEC - went into FTC totally open to voting for anyone. - credited Angelina for operating very well under the gun. She was targeted and dismissed by the non-Mike Goliaths, but in the end, she had the last laugh. - said Mike was targeted for looking for idols on day 1, hour 1, but credited him for so successfully downplaying any semblance of a threat that everyone trusted him shortly after that. - credited Nick for playing his advantage, having multiple alliances to fall back on, and winning three back to back immunities. Said he has a "JT vibe" which just makes me like Alec even more. CARL - wanted Mike to own up to using everybody to keep the pressure off himself. - said Angelina "did what she had to do." Had the most heat on her. - respected Nick's multiple alliances, advantages, and immunities. Said he played every aspect of the game, called him an "all-around" player. KARA - credited Nick for finding and playing a "game-changing" advantage, again called him "well-rounded", said he had a great attitude for the most part, but that he played wildly differently from her. - said Mike played the game she wanted to play, but did it way, way better than she did. She thought she was doing great at the under the radar, behind the scenes manipulator thing until the endgame, when she realized Mike had her beat the whole time. - credited Angelina for having a great attitude and being open to work with anyone despite getting votes from them. Said she played a "creative" game and moved fluidly between alliances despite being an underdog, but said it was just too easy to "read between the lines when she speaks." GABBY - said Nick has a great "story," and played an "open" game. As an emotional person, she respected his displays of emotion. Also respected his multiple alliances, being on the right side of most votes, and how he went from being a target on day 1 to being a force of nature on day 39. - said everyone felt comfortable telling their secrets to Mike, said he was "sneaky but clever" and hid his strategy by pretending he didn't know what was going on. Notes that people wanted to please him and be cool in front of him because he was a celebrity, but says she "saw through him from day 1" and that she never bought anything he was selling. - credited Angelina for working hard, making herself known, and not backing down as a woman playing Survivor. - said her most important criteria was intentionality, flexibility, and strategy. Also said she was looking for a good story. So yeah, Nick's immunity run definitely helped him, but do did most of the other stuff he did. He really did play a fairly well-rounded game of Survivor. Also, interesting note: all three Brochachos regarded Kara as a bigger goat than Angelina and said that taking her was a mistake, but this did not come up in anyone else's videos so I'm not sure if it's a widely held opinion among the jurors or just those three because Dan is such an Angelina fanboy (which still blows my mind  ).
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Dec 20, 2018 16:35
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Of all things, I did not expect Dan to be Angelina's biggest advocate. The two of them really had a down and up relationship, huh. I'm not sure if Kara gave herself enough credit there. The Brochachos' opinions spoke of the result, of course, but Kara and Mike played very similar social games. It's just that Mike got himself an alliance of three that survived til the finale, while Kara lost Alec and never really recovered. It also didn't help her that her closest ally after that, Alison, would always be a target. If anything, her flaw was actually being too lax (which is a problem that most of the Goliaths had). She needed to be proactive and lead the charge to take people out after Christian was gone, rather than nodding and going, 'that's a great idea!' whenever a name was brought up.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:50
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Alison's interview just made the fake idol play better: Had you been tipped off by Kara about that fake idol? Oh my gosh. When I find the idol, I grab it and I say, “Well look at this!” First of all, I woke up on her putting it in the tree branch. I go out there, I see it, and I say, “Look at this fake idol that I got.” I mean, it was a janky idol. The strings were not symmetric and there was the whole scene of me coming up on her. When I came up on her, she said, “Oh my God, Ali, I’m so sorry.” She started saying, “I’m so sad because now I’m going to leave the game. You have an idol and I’m going to leave the game.” And it was truly acting from a daytime soap opera. And it was hilarious because everyone here knew it was fake idol. Then she went off and sort of fake cried on the beach, as if she was going home. So it was a lot of high comedy, being the person that was receiving this fake idol. But there was a part of me that said I can’t not play this, because what if there is that 0.0000000001 percent chance that it’s real? And so at the end of the day, I decided to play it and I think most people on the jury didn’t see it as a grand strategic move. They saw it as a heartfelt, personal attack. So just like Domenick, a big idol play in the finale makes the person attempting it look stupid.
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Dec 20, 2018 16:59
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'm not sure if Kara gave herself enough credit there. The Brochachos' opinions spoke of the result, of course, but Kara and Mike played very similar social games. It's just that Mike got himself an alliance of three that survived til the finale, while Kara lost Alec and never really recovered. It also didn't help her that her closest ally after that, Alison, would always be a target. If anything, her flaw was actually being too lax (which is a problem that most of the Goliaths had). She needed to be proactive and lead the charge to take people out after Christian was gone, rather than nodding and going, 'that's a great idea!' whenever a name was brought up. I think it speaks perfectly to the point she had that she and Mike were playing the same game and he was doing it better. Alison's interview makes me even happier that I didn't really like her. Oof.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:06
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IcePhoenix posted:I think it speaks perfectly to the point she had that she and Mike were playing the same game and he was doing it better. They both ended up in the exact same position - F4, no votes cast against them the entire game, and there was no way Nick wasn't going to take Angelina over either of them. People were feeding them information the entire game. I think they both played an equally strong social game. Sure Kara would have lost the Brochachos' votes, but she could have easily scooped up some other ones (Elizabeth, Alison, Alec, probably Mike).
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Dec 20, 2018 17:12
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STAC Goat posted:Nick's a solid winner but I think he probably could have been a great winner if he hadn't fallen apart so much the last few weeks. Like, back when Gabby pulled off the blindside on Carl I was curious how Nick would react the first time he was on the wrong side of a betrayal/blindside/lie and it turns out the answer was "every time he is he'll throw a really public temper tantrum and get petty." John kind of nailed it that his peak was early when he got him out, but but like he went all immunity run on it and did what he had to do to rebound from his mistakes. In a lot of ways it reminds me of Mike Halloway's win. So kudos. Nick is definitely a better winner than Mike Holloway imo. He only needed a 3 immunity streak to make his run to the end, and he likely didn't even need all 3 of those wins. But there is a slight resemblance. They both self-destructed a little bit. Binary Logic posted:Edge pf Extinction?! Aubry - 32, 34 Joe - 30, 31 Kelley - 29, 31 Aubry is the worst of the bunch in terms of overexposure and we definitely don't need to see her again right now. Joe it's at least been a little longer, but he's always been a one-note player. Not really interested in him. Kelley is the best pick of those three i feel, since she has a little more to her game and wasn't much of a presence in 29, so she almost feels like a one-time player.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:31
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ApplesandOranges posted:
I might be misremembering, but didn’t Dom successfully play a fake idol at 6 pre-vote to save his real one for the final 5? I remember it working quite well
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Dec 20, 2018 18:51
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It worked in the moment, but it really put the jury off of him in a way that may have cost him the game.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:54
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IcePhoenix posted:I think it speaks perfectly to the point she had that she and Mike were playing the same game and he was doing it better. Alison's still waiting to make a 'big move'. Alison puts down Angelina but at least the latter tried, and played hard. And Angelina did have a story arc of talking about how few women had found idols in the beginning of the game, then she managed to find one and make good use of it. So she had a lot of faults but that came around nicely. Mostly I remember Alison complaining, and being used by others for her vote. Fast Luck posted:
There are some who think Aubry could have or should have won over Michelle Fitzgerald, so I suppose this is her chance at redemption. I guess Joe and Kelly are the eye candy returnees. I wonder if the returning players will have some beginning immunity advantage because surely those 2 will be seen as huge threats in all aspects of the game and early targets. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 19:00
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Kelley Wentworth played the gently caress out of her second season, she's more than just eye candy, which is more than I can honestly say for Joey Ubiquitous.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:03
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I said "huge threats in all aspects of the game". Anyway just saw someone post this on twitter and thought I'd share 
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Dec 20, 2018 19:15
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I'm honestly more worried about David and Aubry, because they are known threats that don't have the obvious challenge strength to convince their tribe to keep them through to the merge.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:19
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Of those four I'm most excited to see Wentworth. I'm okay with David, as I'm basically okay with anyone getting a second shot. But, I think we've seen everything we need to see from Aubry and Joe. I can't imagine them playing any better or even any differently than they have before.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:19
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The only returning player I have no interest to see again is Joe. He’s basically a non entity as it relates to anything non-Challenge
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Dec 20, 2018 19:22
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This finale had everything: a fulfilling winner, a Drag Race level of shady editing, a 50 foot ladder, a woman finding an idol, a vague peak at the disastrous next season. Probably the most boring final TC in recent memory but this is safely a top five Survivor season after sticking the landing.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:22
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Binary Logic posted:And Angelina did have a story arc of talking about how few women had found idols in the beginning of the game, then she managed to find one and make good use of it. How did she make good use of it? She tried once again to act like an arrogant mastermind in a big production for the jury (I can't remember her exact words when getting up to play the idol but it was something like, "I have the votes for Alison anyway but I'm going to play this to be extra safe") which they saw right through, and also used the opportunity to pointlessly irritate someone that she's sending to the jury out of spite. Add into this the fact that she didn't find the idol herself -- while losing the clue and stranding herself on a ledge which resulted in somewhat of an emotional breakdown immediately thereafter that she tried to play off as injuring herself -- and required assistance from Nick and Mike to actually locate it. The entire episode is yet another summation of her horribly misguided gameplay and insufferable personality.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:27
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What do you guys think Angelina should have done? Save Alison with the Idol to vote out Mike? Like it would never have happened considering her weird hangup over Alison but still.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:35
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There was honestly no good way for her to use the idol at that point. Her game had already been irrevocably sunk. But I applaud her for "finding" it cause it was comedy gold.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:47
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Oh god Angelina is just the worst Solid finale without being spectacular. The fire challenge at F4 isn't just bad for strategy, it's boring as hell to watch in the moment as well. Wentworth! 
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Dec 20, 2018 19:49
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Sand Monster posted:How did she make good use of it? She tried once again to act like an arrogant mastermind in a big production for the jury (I can't remember her exact words when getting up to play the idol but it was something like, "I have the votes for Alison anyway but I'm going to play this to be extra safe") which they saw right through, and also used the opportunity to pointlessly irritate someone that she's sending to the jury out of spite. Add into this the fact that she didn't find the idol herself -- while losing the clue and stranding herself on a ledge which resulted in somewhat of an emotional breakdown immediately thereafter that she tried to play off as injuring herself -- and required assistance from Nick and Mike to actually locate it. The entire episode is yet another summation of her horribly misguided gameplay and insufferable personality. At F5 Nick was safe. Without the idol, Alison Kara and Mike could have voted her out. Rarity posted:Oh god Angelina is just the worst Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 20:09
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Spergatory posted:There was honestly no good way for her to use the idol at that point. Her game had already been irrevocably sunk. But I applaud her for "finding" it cause it was comedy gold. Yeah, the idol was really a non factor. Nick was winning immunities so it wasn't even terribly useful defensively. There could have been a crazy play where she uses it to save Allison and get out Mike because she thinks she has a better chance against the women, but besides Angelina's transparent pettiness towards Alison she just clearly didn't have the proper perception of her game to realize she needed goats to win. As best as I can tell Angelina really and truly believed she had masterminded her way to the end and would get votes. And you can't reason with crazy. If anything the show editors were kind to her if Allison's story is true and she did a whole overacting drama show about how the fake idol meant she waa going home. That could have buried her HARD if they wanted it to. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 20:15
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Joe is a lump. He has no personality, no game, and he's not attractive. David is a neurotic mess and lacks charm. He reminds me of the lawyer that hides from a T-Rex on the toilet in Jurassic Park. I enjoyed watching Aubry and Wentworth in their seasons, but don't think they will add any value. Still gonna watch, though.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:29
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Joe basically can't stop himself from dominating challenges, and then he's a whiz at camp life, so he's always going to make the merge and then be a target. It wouldn't even matter if he was super smart at the game as long as he's still doing those other things that make him a target. His best strategic move would be to get a little bit of a beer belly, dog it in challenges, and sleep in the shelter all day.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:47
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it was funny when Natalie was insisting she got a bad edit, and after Jeff threw it to the cast and not one person stood up for her, he magnanimously moves on with, "So, we didn't get to see all the flavors of Natalie, but [next topic]"
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Dec 20, 2018 20:50
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I've always thought the intentional Tyson would be a good move for a Joey-type; intentionally give yourself some kind of minor injury, and drastically overstate how debilitating it is so you have an excuse to stop doing camp work and can dog it in the immunity challenges. Then, when the time comes, turn on the afterburners and smoke everyone in the final few immunities.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:52
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Haha, Angelina is blaming her not being able to find the idol on her own on production writing a bad clue.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:53
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STAC Goat posted:Haha, Angelina is blaming her not being able to find the idol on her own on production writing a bad clue. I read that, and it makes Mike immediately interpreting the clue accurately all the more hilarious
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Dec 20, 2018 20:56
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AWarmBody posted:I read that, and it makes Mike immediately interpreting the clue accurately all the more hilarious While drunk, no less. Bitchy Drunk Gay Uncle Mike was definitely my favorite Mike of the season. EDIT: oh yeah, fun tidbit from a Nick interview; Nick was totally down to vote out Mike at 5, but Kara of all people refused to go along with it.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:58
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Yeah, Mike wandering around the jungle drunk with a glass of wine muttering "idiots" while Angelina points at rocks was just art. Spergatory posted:EDIT: oh yeah, fun tidbit from a Nick interview; Nick was totally down to vote out Mike at 5, but Kara of all people refused to go along with it.
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Dec 20, 2018 21:09
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