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Grouchio posted:So I found a shortlist of potential SoD replacements:
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Dec 21, 2018 01:32
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N00ba the Hutt posted:The Paris Climate Agreement, Iran nuclear deal, and rapprochement with Cuba might balance the scales a bit more than you are crediting. "rapprochement with Cuba" lol. Cuba became open for corporate business but it still remained illegal for Americans to travel there.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:32
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:count starts anew today, but any price, right? no, the count started long ago in the early 1980s (if not before) when we started creating this nightmare there is no "let's start afresh" the occupations are a horrific, violent climax that has completely devastated and destabilized the entire region, from the mediterranean to the himalayas they need to end and they need to end right now. staying delays the inevitable blow back, while simultaneously further destabilizing the region and causing horrific, unjust violence. not to mention normalizing and furthering the legitimizing the GWOT
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Dec 21, 2018 01:32
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:im not trying to rehabilitate bush, im saying that the specific consequences of this decision, today, are going to be significant and will likely result in hundreds of thousands of dead. tracing back how we got to where we are today is, on some level, fruitless. the legitimacy of projecting power through military intervention is an entirely distinct conversation from what trump is doing, right now, in syria, which is a pathetic monstrosity from every angle. there is no justification for his action and in no sense is it positive. people who view looking at the past as fruitless view launching another forever war as good knock me over with a feather
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Dec 21, 2018 01:33
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calling our presence in Kurdish Syria an occupation is a word choice I really disagree with
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Dec 21, 2018 01:34
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RaySmuckles posted:no, the count started long ago in the early 1980s (if not before) when we started creating this nightmare if we're trying to trace things back, why stop in the 1980s? why not the early 1900s and the aftermath of ww1? british occupation of the middle east? the creation of saudi arabia?
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Dec 21, 2018 01:34
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:people who view looking at the past as fruitless view launching another forever war as good where did i say that im in favor of a 'forever war'? what i'm saying (and any common sense person should be saying) is that, even if we decide we should withdraw from syria (which is an open question!) this is the absolute worst way to do so and will result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths - deaths that could've been prevented even if we still withdraw
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Dec 21, 2018 01:35
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:if we're trying to trace things back, why stop in the 1980s? why not the early 1900s and the aftermath of ww1? british occupation of the middle east? the creation of saudi arabia? These are unironically decent places to start and I'm sure you can go back further. Seven Hundred Bee posted:where did i say that im in favor of a 'forever war'? what i'm saying (and any common sense person should be saying) is that, even if we decide we should withdraw from syria (which is an open question!) this is the absolute worst way to do so and will result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths - deaths that could've been prevented even if we still withdraw We are actively contributing to deaths right now. This isn't "no dying" or "dying." Giggy fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Dec 21, 2018 |
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Dec 21, 2018 01:35
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https://twitter.com/ErinBanco/status/1075907447234158592 https://twitter.com/edhenry/status/1075905571403022336
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Dec 21, 2018 01:35
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:if we're trying to trace things back, why stop in the 1980s? why not the early 1900s and the aftermath of ww1? british occupation of the middle east? the creation of saudi arabia? don't change the subject the wars need to end today pulling out the troops tomorrow is the best thing the US can do
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Dec 21, 2018 01:35
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:if we're trying to trace things back, why stop in the 1980s? why not the early 1900s and the aftermath of ww1? british occupation of the middle east? the creation of saudi arabia? man, sure looks like this colonialism poo poo has a bad historical track record, huh! you have any ideas about how this time was going to be different, orrrr
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Dec 21, 2018 01:36
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Just make Florida the new Kurdistan. Let them move there and become citizens. Ohio or some other crucial swing state would also work.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:36
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Lightning Knight posted:We can’t commit troops to every part of the world that goes to poo poo. We said Libya was going to be a massacre and ended up making it worse than it is. America is not a force for good in the world and it’s not our job to drop an army division anywhere we feel isn’t up to snuff. "Well Libya, sorry that your Arab Spring revolution failed, but we couldn't help you despite the rebels and the Arab League asking the United Nations to do something to prevent civilians from getting mulched by a dictator. See because he gave up his nukes, he's "one of the good dictators" " - SECSTATE Lightning Knight, 2011. Seriously, your problem is Libya? GreyjoyBastard posted:calling our presence in Kurdish Syria an occupation is a word choice I really disagree with I'm really getting baffled by this resurgence of Ted-Rall-rear end takes about how we shouldn't render aid to those who ask and how civilian deaths abroad don't matter as long as it doesn't involve us in any way (this includes deaths that result from us leaving with no real plan to maintain soft power/negotiating in the area because honestly how could they be worse than if we stayed?). Saying we're "occupying" the Kurdish lands is just another form of those takes.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:36
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Grouchio posted:So I found a shortlist of potential SoD replacements: I don't see Mick Mulvaney on there.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:36
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RaySmuckles posted:don't change the subject to repeat: quote:where did i say that im in favor of a 'forever war'? what i'm saying (and any common sense person should be saying) is that, even if we decide we should withdraw from syria (which is an open question!) this is the absolute worst way to do so and will result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths - deaths that could've been prevented even if we still withdraw
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Dec 21, 2018 01:37
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RaySmuckles posted:don't change the subject You need to stop.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:37
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lol, sure buddy.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:38
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:man, sure looks like this colonialism poo poo has a bad historical track record, huh! supporting the kurds in an interim between the end of syria controlled ISIS until its an appropriate time to withdraw without ushering in a genocide is colonialism because...?
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Dec 21, 2018 01:38
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Gaunab posted:It feels like we're going to think back point in 20 years when something bad happens but you could say that for any decisions made by this administration. This has been true from day one and it'd be true without all the overtly stupid poo poo that's happening. The damage that's being done to federal agencies and departments is just so hilariously deep that it'll probably take decades to sort it out.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:39
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motoh posted:You need to stop. stop what? people are conflating their distaste with trump with the opportunity to end the single most important and defining aspect of the american empire over the last several decades even if trump falls assbackwards into it, ending the wars is the single greatest thing any president could do since the moment they began
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Dec 21, 2018 01:39
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FlamingLiberal posted:Graham and Cotton would be bad. The others I am not very familiar with. Thankfully Graham would rather be Attorney General Plus I think Trump's about to ditch him as his golf buddy, given todays' tweet
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Dec 21, 2018 01:40
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https://twitter.com/katrinapierson/status/1075906568007360512?s=21
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Dec 21, 2018 01:40
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GreyjoyBastard posted:with the war winding down it's possible Assad would be willing to offer the Kurds an okay deal if there was still the American speed bump to worry about I recall that the Kurds and Assad are already strange bedfellows. Like he let them get away from Aleppo when Assad closed the pocket around the rebels and the Kurds have taken the opportunity to fight rebels instead of Shia forces. It's been awhile, but I recall some folks in the Mideast thread being upset at some of the infighting between the rebels/FAD and the Kurdish militias.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:40
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motoh posted:You need to stop. Much like... our involvement in forever-wars in the Mideast.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:41
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RaySmuckles posted:stop what? I'm sure all the dead Kurds would agree with you if they weren't dead by the hands of Turkish soldiers who we are selling weapons to right now and are preparing to attack the Kurds as soon as we leave holy poo poo how are you this dense.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:41
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:where did i say that im in favor of a 'forever war'? what i'm saying (and any common sense person should be saying) is that, even if we decide we should withdraw from syria (which is an open question!) this is the absolute worst way to do so and will result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths - deaths that could've been prevented even if we still withdraw when would we have left, friend. what chain of events would need to happen for you to say "yes, good, now is the time it is acceptable to bring our troops home." there is a term for a war with no victory condition. that it upsets you is regrettable.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:41
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 https://twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/1075909439176216577
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Dec 21, 2018 01:41
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:supporting the kurds in an interim between the end of syria controlled ISIS until its an appropriate time to withdraw without ushering in a genocide is colonialism because...? We've been supporting the Kurds in just about every middle eastern war since the 80s. It's not that your idea isn't *good, it's that no one who has ever advocated for it in a position of power has said it in good faith. *I actually don't think it's good because I don't think we're there because of ISIS.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:42
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Jaxyon posted:I like how people are all fired up over pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan as if Trump isn't going to do it some amazingly dumb way that somehow gets more killed than just staying there would, if even does it at all after his nap time makes him forget it. Exactly. There hasn't been a thing he has managed to do that has not either been pointless or completely hosed up in its execution.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:42
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:supporting the kurds in an interim between the end of syria controlled ISIS until its an appropriate time to withdraw without ushering in a genocide is colonialism because...? because our country is rife with examples of "until it's an appropriate time" meaning "stay and plunder for decades."
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Dec 21, 2018 01:42
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:supporting the kurds in an interim between the end of syria controlled ISIS until its an appropriate time to withdraw without ushering in a genocide is colonialism because...? hey, remember the last time we did that, in iraq remind me, what came out of that again.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:42
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Grouchio posted:So I found a shortlist of potential SoD replacements: Coats is probably the best case scenario. He's another "adult in the room" type but seems incredibly unlikely between Trump's hatred of the intelligence services and the fact he's likely to tow most of the same lines as Mattis particularly wrt Russia.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:43
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RaySmuckles posted:don't change the subject No, it is not. In Syria anyway. Trump's also going to gently caress up the Afghanistan withdrawal and cause unnecessary deaths, so you're still technically wrong there, but there's no plausible path to unfucking the situation so whatever, enjoy your return to a theocratic shithole guys.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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RaySmuckles posted:stop what? Just because you end something doesn't mean there is only one way to end that thing. Like the military could end trump's farce of a presidency but that would be a really bad way for the country to go. Just pulling out of the middle east with no planning or coordination is going to leave a lot of people to fend for themselves, in many cases against far superior weaponry that we sold to their enemies (we just sold a bunch of missiles to turkey, and turkey wants us to get teh gently caress out of syria so they can start using them on people who don't have the backing of a first rate power).
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:if we're trying to trace things back, why stop in the 1980s? why not the early 1900s and the aftermath of ww1? british occupation of the middle east? the creation of saudi arabia? You can bring everything back to Britain and France loving around in the region and creating divisions they could use to exert political / military power, so yeah, that'd be a good spot to start from. 
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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https://twitter.com/MikeDrucker/status/1075910854124687360
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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mcmagic posted:It really only took like a week of a bad stock market for a number of my rich guy co workers to get off the Trump train lol Haha, what are they saying? In there defense, it was a hella terrible week. Down 2% again today
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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its wonderful to know that the correct solution to ending middle east intervention is to suddenly announce withdrawing troops on twitter without preparing at all (or even asking your military to develop plans to you know, actually withdraw the troops) solely because a dictator wants to kill off your allies and you're pesky soldiers are in the way. but, hundreds of thousands of dead civilians is worst the price to withdraw our massive occupying force of 2,000 soldiers isolationism at any price! are we going to start talking about autarky again too?
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Dec 21, 2018 01:45
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Ex Boss posted this on FB: Trump should build his Wall out of Hillary’s emails since no one can seem to get over them.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:45
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mango sentinel posted:Coats is probably the best case scenario. Here's another "adult in the room" type but seems incredibly unlikely between Trump's hatred of the intelligence services and the fact he's likely to tow most of the same lines as Mattis particularly wrt Russia. Coats hates Iran and the Iran deal so I have some concerns there, but he's probably second leastworst.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:45
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