|
kinda sucks blizz named this game after one of their most prolific (now deceased) artist's portfolio blog And it's probably gonna go down as one their biggest flops in the long run
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:43 |
|
|
NeurosisHead posted:Playing against good players is hard so we made this character's incredibly high skill cap less impactful since most of you are garbage idiots anyway They're absolutely going to change Murky, my favorite character, to better fit into this non-specialist world and they are absolutely going to change everything I like about him. I'm already dreading it
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
yup they're gonna loving ruin him Modern blizzard has this obsession with massively overhauling systems that people have gotten used to and enjoyed for years Symmetra in OW is an example of a necessary overhaul because the original character sucked rear end One of the worst cases I can remember is in wow during Pandaria they gave all the casters options for moving while casting and just generally being more mobile; then a year later they just decided "nah actually this is bad we're reverting all of it!" Or again in Pandaria, they (well really one specific designer) made Warlocks a loving BEAUTIFUL class, then a year later just loving HAMMERED that class into the ground after players had gotten used to all the changes ITS POOP!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 19:07
|
|
|
Blizzard genuinely seems to enjoy seeing how much they can get away with making their customers miserable. I really hope Immortal actually blows up in their faces, but I also don't have faith in humanity to not throw money at a company for low effort products.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
Moola posted:yup they're gonna loving ruin him Oh God, Siege of Orgrimmar Destruction Warlock was just.. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Oh God, Siege of Orgrimmar Destruction Warlock was just.. The golden age of warlocks Probably the coolest loving class they ever designed But they hosed em because lol at spending that much effort on the rest of the classes too
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
"We are happy that so many fans of X class or Y character are having so much fun in this video game with them, but according to our metrics that we need to keep super secret, it is time for us to take their joy away in the name of "balance." It was "overperforming" so we had no choice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 22:25
|
|
|
It's not really a secret that MoP Destruction was busted and needed to be taken down a peg or two, but the WoD era of Charred Remains definitely didn't work out very well. On the other hand, part of the spec's popularity was 100% the fact that it was overpowered as poo poo. This is really easy to confirm, because literally the same thing happened with Demonology in BfA's alpha/beta. It was initially just tuned too high, and the forums were singing its praises as an amazing spec and the best redesign of the expansion and blah blah blah. Then it got nerfed a little too much (only in numbers, no mechanical changes!) and all of a sudden it was a garbage spec that nobody wanted to play despite being identical in playstyle. Now it looks good again, and opinion has completely swung back the other way. It's not like HotS is any different. If you build it (overpowered), they will come.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 22:41
|
|
|
"yogg-saron was the most fun i ever had in hearthstone"
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
kaesarsosei posted:Not even remotely tempted to try another MOBA, everything I've heard/read about them suggests they are not for me (last hitting & items sound like horrific mechanics). Eraflure posted:Those mechanics add depth to their respective games and have been fully integrated into the gameplay and balance for a long time. I suggest you ignore what this thread has to say on the matter and go ask people who actually play other mobas. That or just try those games yourself. I agree- I would encourage all HOTS players to try DOTA 2. If you love laning you are in luck- you will be last hitting creeps for the first 15 minutes of every match and twice that or more if you are playing a carry. Some of that time will be punctuated by laying down wards and performing rituals in reverence to the Warcraft 3 engine, like Creep Stacking
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
Dilkington posted:I agree- I would encourage all HOTS players to try DOTA 2. If you love laning you are in luck- you will be last hitting creeps for the first 15 minutes of every match and twice that or more if you are playing a carry. Some of that time will be punctuated by laying down wards and performing rituals in reverence to the Warcraft 3 engine, like Creep Stacking Yeah that's the sort of stuff that killed dota for me back in the day. Like ~60 minute matches where you're just sorta killing your own minions for the first 30 minutes then like maybe a team fight like 50 minutes in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
Dilkington posted:I agree- I would encourage all HOTS players to try DOTA 2. If you love laning you are in luck- you will be last hitting creeps for the first 15 minutes of every match and twice that or more if you are playing a carry. Some of that time will be punctuated by laying down wards and performing rituals in reverence to the Warcraft 3 engine, like Creep Stacking This sounds abysmal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
I don't think that's true at all of present day Dota. There's been a lot of changes to discourage sitting around in the jungle farming and encourage early ganking and fights.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2018 23:53
|
|
|
Dilkington posted:I agree- I would encourage all HOTS players to try DOTA 2. Last Hitting is loving terrible and I will never play a game that features it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 00:07
|
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:Yeah that's the sort of stuff that killed dota for me back in the day. Like ~60 minute matches where you're just sorta killing your own minions for the first 30 minutes then like maybe a team fight like 50 minutes in. Idk, I feel like that's being disingenuous. If you're not ganking / setting up ganks or pushing towers to provoke a team fight at a power spike, you're going to lose and you're going to do it fast. I quit HoTS for DOTA 2 and honestly it was pretty refreshing. The lack of big siren screaming objcetives meant that you had a lot more freedom and options to do things to sway the advantage your way, whether it's stacking creeps, pulling the wave, cutting the wave, ganking, offensively warding and stealing jungle farm, etc. I've also only had a handful of games hit an hour in 200 played. Most are over at about 45 mins, and the stomps are 25. HiTS became really frustrating because they kept nerfing my favorite characters (I, too, mourn for Murky), and it seemed like every single game had a Genji, Tracer or Hanzo. The game had doubled in characters since I started playing, but with the focus on team fighting, nerfing of split pushing / macro game, it felt more homogenized than ever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 00:10
|
|
|
See, I went in the opposite direction: played DOTA 2 before HOTS was released. I distinctly remember dunking someone over a gate with Diablo and that somehow being more fun than all the Sandking-blinkdagger combos I'd ever landed. Seriously though: DisgracelandUSA posted:...you had a lot more freedom and options to do things to sway the advantage your way, whether it's stacking creeps, pulling the wave, cutting the wave, ganking, offensively warding and stealing jungle farm, etc. Take out last-hitting and creep stacking and get average match time down to ~20 minutes and that sounds like a great moba. Dilkington fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 02:00
|
|
|
HOTS's developers should have learned from DOTA 2 that engine quirks are actually great game design. They should have made it so you could only regenerate mana by b-stepping, or you got invincibility frames from opening and closing the chat window.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ASax0jBFQ Quite good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 02:28
|
|
|
Dilkington posted:See, I went in the opposite direction: played DOTA 2 before HOTS was released. I distinctly remember dunking someone over a gate with Diablo and that somehow being more fun than all the Sandking-blinkdagger combos I'd ever landed. To be fair dota's down to around 30 minutes on average now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
Cuntellectual posted:To be fair dota's down to around 30 minutes on average now. DisgracelandUSA posted:I've also only had a handful of games hit an hour in 200 played. Most are over at about 45 mins, and the stomps are 25. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
Cwordlecctual must be a stompee.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
DisgracelandUSA posted:I've also only had a handful of games hit an hour in 200 played. Most are over at about 45 mins, and the stomps are 25. this still sounds abysmal Dilkington posted:HOTS's developers should have learned from DOTA 2 that engine quirks are actually great game design. They should have made it so you could only regenerate mana by b-stepping, or you got invincibility frames from opening and closing the chat window. it's an important skill to find opportunities to safely b-step mid-fight, and doing so effectively requires good timing and drains your concentration, as well as preventing you from continuing a prolonged fight without slowing down your movement and making yourself vulnerable. bstep-only mana regen adds a lot of much needed depth to the game ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
Wait thats real?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
Dota is loving boring as poo poo and is a poo poo game. Why more people don't play hots compared to that hot garbage is beyond me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 09:59
|
|
|
hots is a worse game. not that dota is good, mind you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 12:18
|
|
|
Guys, guys..... They're all terrible, okay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 13:48
|
|
|
this deserves more quotes
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 13:50
|
|
|
Ronnie posted:Guys, guys..... They're all terrible, okay. aint that the truth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 13:55
|
|
|
Dota isn't a passive game - if you're playing at a high level then while you're doing the creep stacking, last hitting, etc, the enemy team is probably trying to disrupt you and can kill you very easily if you screw up. Like, stacking camps as a trilane support is very risky. The enemy offlaner or midlaner can show up in your jungle and kill you, and you need to manage that while also hitting seconds-thin timing windows to pull the creeps correctly so they stack. Meanwhile, every second you take away from your lane to stack a camp is a second where your carry is vulnerable and doesn't have your crowd control to finish a kill or protect them from a gank, so you need to manage your time and movement effectively, or you could let your carry die while you're fiddling with creeps. That kind of gameplay only appeals to certain people, sure, and HotS is a completely different niche that focuses on being a less intricate, less punishing experience, but nothing about the laning in Dota is passive. Teamfights occur early and frequently if you're playing at a decent skill level, because disrupting the enemy's farming carries is one of the best ways of winning the game, and it's easier and more effective to do the earlier in the game you are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
Toothy posted:Dota is loving boring as poo poo You can not like a game, but all these dummies calling it boring must be like the most poop tier, uncreative players making it that way on themselves. At basically every stage of Dota 2's life, you've had a myriad of choices for "I want a character I can just play and not need to farm on", whether that's a character who's mostly jungling and then jumping out on people quick, whether it's a character who starts strong and has incentive to make games short before the long game character come online, whether it's playing the supports who poo poo all over people for daring to get greedy. Like did all of you people who somehow came out of the game thinking it was boring and that you had to farm for 30 minutes get tricked into playing Anti-Mage for all of your games or something, because if anything the game's pretty steadily lost more farm time as it's gone. Pick Invoker and learn to QWOP the poo poo out of people, get good at and have fun with sniping idiots from literally anywhere on the map with sun strikes. Pick Riki or Bounty Hunter and make other shitters mad by being invisible most of the game. Pick Pudge and make people even angrier with good hooks. Also last hitting is not that hard, it just isn't, watch health bar, click man when low. Otherwise denying, creep stacking, blocking and all the more esoteric junk often isn't necessary at all if you're just playing for fun down in unranked babby levels. You could over-explain high level HotS quirks to people and do this same dishonest trick, when a lot of people are never going to use or need said screwier tactics, it's dumb. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
I played DOTA back in the WC3 days and then played 2. It was boring because it was filled with unintuitive poo poo that's in the game for no better reason than that's what people were used to. I peaced out when I realized the genre is just waiting for somebody to create a cohesive game system that isn't dependent on me reading novels of badly formatted forum posts to understand the fundamental concepts. Same reason I don't like PoE, I don't have the time in my life to waste days of it on what amounts to just reading the instruction manual because it's impossible to embed that learning in the actual game. HotS kind of filled that role. I'm sorry this makes people so angry!
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 16:35
|
|
|
Geckoagua posted:I peaced out when I realized the genre is just waiting for somebody to create a cohesive game system that isn't dependent on me reading novels of badly formatted forum posts to understand the fundamental concepts. Same reason I don't like PoE, I don't have the time in my life to waste days of it on what amounts to just reading the instruction manual because it's impossible to embed that learning in the actual game. I just don't know where people got this from, because it couldn't feel any more different from my experience when I picked it up, I don't think I ever read forum posts, guides or any of that, I played the game and the majority was obvious. (Same even on PoE with that mentioned, though I disliked it for other reasons) Also I forgot at first, but if people are really that scared of game time too, Dota 2's had a turbo mode for a while now, where XP and gold gain are dialed way up and everything turns into mashing carries together, if that's all you want. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
Dota 2 rips when you watch pros play it. It’s such a cool mix of real time skill and insane long game strategy, plus wild item choices and bizarre team comps. HOTS is good though for me because I don’t have the time to learn all that poo poo
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
I find Dota 2 fun to watch. It's not like people spend 30 minutes last-hitting minions. From the start, there are attempts to gank, fights over runes, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 17:10
|
|
|
league is the far more passive farming game so it's weird to attack dota on that front. most genres you need to learn things to understand it that may seem unintuitive so it's a weird complaint. fighting games aren't bad because they kept glitches in (combos and parries and stuff are all based on glitches in old games). Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
Combos and parries also make complete and perfect sense within the concept of a fighting game because they also exist in real fighting, so it makes sense that devs would embrace those things. Last hitting, creep stacking, etc, are literally just exploiting an engine. Dota-likes are like if Counter-Strike had left in bunny hopping, but somehow TFC nade launching also some how got through.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:Also last hitting is not that hard, it just isn't, watch health bar, click man when low. Tedium doesn't require difficulty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 18:04
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Last hitting, creep stacking, etc, are literally just exploiting an engine. last hitting isn't an engine exploit or glitch - it's how you can gain gold from creeps in wc3.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 18:22
|
|
|
It's weird how the exploit of last hitting leads to more tension than passively soaking. Must be a glitch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 18:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:43 |
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Dota-likes are like if Counter-Strike had left in bunny hopping, but somehow TFC nade launching also some how got through. This sounds like a much more fun CS, not gonna lie. Kith posted:Tedium doesn't require difficulty. It's not even tedium though, you're thinking when you're last hitting. Man is this low, I hit about this hard, man is getting hit by other mans about this much, this quick, hit himmmm now. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2018 18:55
|
|