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Jonny Nox posted:It sounds like the drones will disappear for just long enough that they consider re-opening the airport, then re-appear again. What's breaking GPS for civilian GPS users near airports gonna do against drones?
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Dec 20, 2018 18:18
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Jonny Nox posted:
That would probably screw over the airliners more than the drones.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:24
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Cocoa Crispies posted:What's breaking GPS for civilian GPS users near airports gonna do against drones? Drone software frequently uses GPS for navigation and a hovering assist. Or maybe I'm wrong, it wasn't a particularly serious idea.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:31
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Are we sure these are quadcopters and not some fixed wing gas powered dealie? One of those can potentially fly for hours at a time. Hell, that’s pretty much what a scan eagle is and those things can go for 12+ hours on 10lbs of gas.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:49
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Are we sure these are quadcopters and not some fixed wing gas powered dealie? One of those can potentially fly for hours at a time. Hell, that’s pretty much what a scan eagle is and those things can go for 12+ hours on 10lbs of gas. Going by: https://twitter.com/brad3d/status/1075768308870172673 An overabundance of caution has had three drone sightings spaced hours apart shut down the airport. I haven't seen (or particularly looked for) any official reports on the size of the drones. A refreshed DJI probably isn't wizard poo poo, a $5 mini-drone might not get noticed, but a gas-powered fixed-wing one probably isn't what's in play here.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:55
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And now check-in systems are down everywhere. Coordinated? e: https://twitter.com/cjcjpaul/status/1075813169954807808
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Dec 20, 2018 19:00
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This really sucks for everyone getting hosed over but it's interesting to see the real-world execution of a relatively small effort that's totally disrupting vital infrastructure. I feel like I've seen people posting for ages about how vulnerable everything is and this is just underlining that.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:16
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Ola posted:And now check-in systems are down everywhere. Coordinated? Murphy’s law, or the system getting overloaded because everyone is switching their flights. They’re not usually the most reliable systems to start with.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:42
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If it's a single drone they should just fly the planes anyway. It's kind of like a bomb threat, for the most part it's only as destructive as you let it be.
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Dec 20, 2018 21:13
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I’m worried that someone is going to build a high endurance drone, like it up with an active final approach path just above the glideslope, and dangle a few hundred feet of det-cord below it that detonates when it hits what would probably be a wing leading edge while on approach. You wouldn’t need speed or accuracy, just pick the right altitude and ensure you’re lined up. I hope this would actually be a billion times harder than I’m assuming.
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Dec 20, 2018 21:20
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I guess every major airport should have some ELINT stuff that can detect RC radio signals and pinpoint the emitter.
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Dec 20, 2018 22:12
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Ola posted:I guess every major airport should have some ELINT stuff that can detect RC radio signals and pinpoint the emitter. This is the pre-brexit uk your talking about, so lol!!
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Dec 20, 2018 22:17
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 At least these guys had room to lay down. It’s the equivalent of international business class with lay flat seats in today’s world.
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Dec 20, 2018 22:17
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INTJ Mastermind posted:
Delta would also put a paper thin divider between each of you and pretend that makes it a "suite"
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Dec 20, 2018 22:24
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Jealous Cow posted:I’m worried that someone is going to build a high endurance drone, like it up with an active final approach path just above the glideslope, and dangle a few hundred feet of det-cord below it that detonates when it hits what would probably be a wing leading edge while on approach. You wouldn’t need speed or accuracy, just pick the right altitude and ensure you’re lined up. A little bit of detcord wouldn’t do much damage to the leading edge of an airliner’s wing. MX would probably notice on the ground, though.
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Dec 21, 2018 00:22
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:
At least we can laugh
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Dec 21, 2018 00:37
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Jealous Cow posted:I’m worried that someone is going to build a high endurance drone, like it up with an active final approach path just above the glideslope, and dangle a few hundred feet of det-cord below it that detonates when it hits what would probably be a wing leading edge while on approach. You wouldn’t need speed or accuracy, just pick the right altitude and ensure you’re lined up. It’d be a lot easier to just fly the drone into the engines
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Dec 21, 2018 00:47
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Baconroll posted:The police at Gatwick have now formally asked the military to get involved. I'd assume the EW folks in the RAF and Army Intelligence corp could do stuff but no idea how fine-grained their response can be. Fleet of BBC license vans.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:26
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I just heard on the radio from some high up official regarding Gatwick is they have the ability to jam the transmissions but 'the current laws about signal interception/jamming prevents us'. How quaint.
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Dec 21, 2018 08:45
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Ola posted:And now check-in systems are down everywhere. Coordinated? These systems usually connect to a giant database running real-time transactions across insanely large datasets world-wide for hundreds of airlines and when something goes wrong the cascade effects are enormous and take a long time to clear. It's the IT science problem from hell. Last year a faulty switch crashed the entire thing, it doesn't take much.
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Dec 21, 2018 10:15
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Jonny Nox posted:Nuclear solution: turn on GPS encryption. Cocoa Crispies posted:Going by: https://twitter.com/brad3d/status/1075768308870172673
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Dec 21, 2018 10:44
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ewe2 posted:These systems usually connect to a giant database running real-time transactions across insanely large datasets world-wide for hundreds of airlines and when something goes wrong the cascade effects are enormous and take a long time to clear. It's the IT science problem from hell. Last year a faulty switch crashed the entire thing, it doesn't take much. Reminds me when BA controlled the system and actively hosed with Richard Branson by locking Virgin out and causing glitches in ticketing etc.
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Dec 21, 2018 11:48
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Generation Internet posted:This really sucks for everyone getting hosed over but it's interesting to see the real-world execution of a relatively small effort that's totally disrupting vital infrastructure. I feel like I've seen people posting for ages about how vulnerable everything is and this is just underlining that. Yeah, it owns. Most infrastructure security hangs by the tiny "most people aren't terrible shits" thread. It mostly works, too, this event just shows how rare such disruption is. And this despite literally everything including the kitchen sink being an internet connected general purpose computer these days. Most of the time you don't even have to leave your couch to do a ton of damage and it still happens fairly rarely.
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Dec 21, 2018 14:09
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evil_bunnY posted:Any semi-recent position receiver isn't limited to GPS. Yeah, a parrot 2 from 5 years ago is a GPS receiver short of being one lmao.
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Dec 21, 2018 14:15
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Dec 21, 2018 14:35
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ewe2 posted:These systems usually connect to a giant database running real-time transactions across insanely large datasets world-wide for hundreds of airlines and when something goes wrong the cascade effects are enormous and take a long time to clear. It's the IT science problem from hell. Last year a faulty switch crashed the entire thing, it doesn't take much. Yeah, it was a coincidence. A bit of a miracle that Amadeus doesn't crash more often.
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Dec 21, 2018 15:06
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ewe2 posted:These systems usually connect to a giant database running real-time transactions across insanely large datasets world-wide for hundreds of airlines and when something goes wrong the cascade effects are enormous and take a long time to clear. It's the IT science problem from hell. Last year a faulty switch crashed the entire thing, it doesn't take much. Yay finally something I can talk about in the plane nerd thread. Cascading failures like this are incredibly easy to get into and they happen quick; seconds, not minutes. Basically your average database can handle some number of concurrent queries, usually in the ballpark of CPU count. Once you try to hit the system with more than that number of queries at the same time (like say every person in a major airport trying to rebook at the same time), stuff starts getting delayed. If it’s a momentary spike, you’re probably okay; some queries take 500ms instead of 50, but you’re still up and running. It’s when the “spike” is more of a plateau that poo poo starts going sideways. Let’s say you can handle 1000 queries/sec. If you have 1100 requests/sec for 1 minute, you have a backlog of 6000 requests that will take 6 seconds to clear even if all requests stop (which they won’t). In fact it will probably get worse, applications will try and resend after a timeout so your 1100 requests/sec starts looking more like 1500 putting you even further in the hole, etc etc. Once you’re in this state, the only way out is to rate limit incoming requests to try and drain out the queue. Sufficient rate limiting is indistinguishable from an outage to the end user.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:17
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Humphreys posted:I just heard on the radio from some high up official regarding Gatwick is they have the ability to jam the transmissions but 'the current laws about signal interception/jamming prevents us'. How quaint. "Oh yeah I could totally kick your rear end if I wanted to, you know, my girlfriend just won't let me." Amazingly limp dicked high school bully response.
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Dec 21, 2018 21:36
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Enjoying the hilariously ill-informed press coverage re. Gatwick if nothing else, 'The Police are going to shoot the drones down'! etc. Good luck to the copper plinking away at a drone with their G36 carbine...
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Dec 21, 2018 22:26
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Actually, shooting down such drones with rifles is a thing and has been done plenty. It’s just that Gatwick has more worry about where rounds land than active warzones.
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Dec 21, 2018 22:28
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Dec 21, 2018 22:29
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Jealous Cow posted:I’m worried that someone is going to build a high endurance drone, like it up with an active final approach path just above the glideslope, and dangle a few hundred feet of det-cord below it that detonates when it hits what would probably be a wing leading edge while on approach. You wouldn’t need speed or accuracy, just pick the right altitude and ensure you’re lined up. Well they will now, thanks a lot Clancy! e.pilot posted:It’d be a lot easier to just fly the drone into the engines I bet that's pretty challenging, too.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:09
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Yours isn't working for me, but: https://twitter.com/Aviationdailyy/status/1076031695386828801 the front fell off
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Dec 22, 2018 02:49
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FBS posted:Yours isn't working for me, but: 
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Dec 22, 2018 04:44
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Jonny Nox posted:Nuclear solution: turn on GPS encryption. Yeah, SA doesn't work like that and is never going to be turned back on.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:50
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The newest satellites can’t do it even if the Pentagon wanted do.
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Dec 22, 2018 05:15
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Fifty-four years ago today the first SR-71A took to the air and even went supersonic.
Kebbins fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 06:59
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Platystemon posted:The newest satellites can’t do it even if the Pentagon wanted do. Yeah, Block III satellites. SA isn't used because of an Executive Order, not because the satellites with the capability have been replaced. The first of the satellites without that capability failed to launch, again, on Thursday. https://www.space.com/42805-spacex-gps-satellite-launch-delayed-by-weather.html
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Dec 22, 2018 07:42
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In further Gatwick drone news the police have now arrested 2 people. The Army may have taken down a drone but the news is really vague on the specifics. Will be interesting to see if its generic idiots, rich kid eco-warriors, or some new variety of idiot. In January I expect we'll see new legislation rushed through Parliament for all sorts of controls on drone - which criminals will of course ignore.
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Dec 22, 2018 08:01
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When drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have drones.
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Dec 22, 2018 09:59
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