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Last hitting isn't even hard nor tedious, it's just a simple addition to laning you can do or not do if you're playing for dumb fun or whatever in the babby levels of the game, you can literally just not do it, pick a gank character. Pick Riki and go from lane to lane killing people. Pick someone like Kotl who just throws a giant wall down the lane so you kill creeps and hurt the enemy at the same time. Buy a Hand of Midas and just click the creeps for gold occasionally. There's so many solutions to like every overwrought problem people seem to have with such an easy mechanic.
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 03:13
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Kith posted:Probably because every time I get my hands on Azmodan, I completely wreck the solo lane without really trying. I legit can't remember seeing an azmodan in at least 50 games (or a ban on it) but I play in masters and gm. Generally bans are at least 3 of genji, Maiev, white mane, abathur, samuro. But azmo is not a good solo laner
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Dec 22, 2018 03:19
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If there is an inherent, built in benefit to doing it, then it eventually becomes necessary, unless the player in question just doesn't give a poo poo about winning. If your opponents are doing it, and benefiting from it, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in choosing to not do it, and therefore putting your team at a disadvantage. That's like saying "lol you don't ever have to soak or do objectives in HotS if you don't like it". Like, sure, you could not do those things, but the team that is doing that is probably going to end up winning because of it. That's probably a lot more extreme, but the point remains. People do it because it is beneficial to do it, to the point that people have made a point in defending its very existence as both skillful and crucial to early parts of the game.SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I legit can't remember seeing an azmodan in at least 50 games (or a ban on it) but I play in masters and gm. Generally bans are at least 3 of genji, Maiev, white mane, abathur, samuro. You are in like the top 10% or higher of players. I've seen a poo poo ton of Azmo bans at Silver/Gold level. A lot less at plat because by that point there are mechanically other heroes that start to become much more of a nuisance.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:20
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At competent levels yes, it's obviously a requirement to better your sense and execution of last hitting, but like I was saying, if you're only playing the game to fart around in wood tier dummy games, a lot of people there only want to smash action figures together. That or again just play turbo mode, the passive gold and XP gain is dialed up so high you actually don't even need to CS a lot of times, you just pick a fight character like I suggested already and go after it.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:30
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Star posted:They seem to be aware of the long queue times https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/heroes-of-the-storm-content-update-december-21/10904 Game's still dead, but slowly undoing the incredibly lovely monetization scheme in the game and allowing skins to be bought with gold is a good first step.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:32
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I legit can't remember seeing an azmodan in at least 50 games (or a ban on it) but I play in masters and gm. Generally bans are at least 3 of genji, Maiev, white mane, abathur, samuro. Although I haven't played very much since Orphea got nerfed a second time, so she's probably not as popular of a ban anymore. quote:But azmo is not a good solo laner Yardbomb posted:Last hitting isn't even hard nor tedious, it's just a simple addition to laning you can do or not do if you're playing for dumb fun or whatever in the babby levels of the game, you can literally just not do it, pick a gank character. Pick Riki and go from lane to lane killing people. Pick someone like Kotl who just throws a giant wall down the lane so you kill creeps and hurt the enemy at the same time. Buy a Hand of Midas and just click the creeps for gold occasionally. There's so many solutions to like every overwrought problem people seem to have with such an easy mechanic.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:35
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You can also play support if you don't want to last hit.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:36
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Kith posted:(that don't even work because "gank characters" don't earn enough gold if they don't get the bounties from their gank targets). They literally do, you can wander the map and pick off idiots with someone like Riki and snowball super fast or you can even play Bounty Hunter and make everyone worth even more at all times. Also some doofy scare quotes mang. I'm also objectively right more than once already because I'm pointing out explicit fixes to multiple people's problems. You want poison, game's got poison. You want shorter games, game's got shorter games and so on. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 03:50
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Yardbomb posted:They literally do Then please explain to me how gank characters, who rely on gold earned from Last Hitting enemy heroes, do not actually need to get Last Hits on enemy heroes.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:09
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Kith posted:Then please explain to me how gank characters, who rely on gold earned from Last Hitting enemy heroes, do not actually need to get Last Hits on enemy heroes. The shared gold is actually pretty big now iirc. Haven't played much but I did reinstall after the hots announcement. I don't get why people have to so rabidly defend their pet moba. Is it sunk cost because they don't want to spend their time on a game that isn't perfect or something? I play league dota hots and smite at different times and all of them are fun in their own way.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:12
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Kith posted:Then please explain to me how gank characters, who rely on gold earned from Last Hitting enemy heroes, do not actually need to get Last Hits on enemy heroes.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:13
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Kith posted:Then please explain to me how gank characters, who rely on gold earned from Last Hitting enemy heroes, do not actually need to get Last Hits on enemy heroes. Because assists are really easy to be included in and are very generous anyway in Dota 2. Not to mention the example gank characters having good execute type moves too, Bounty Hunter having two even with shuriken and jinada, also gank implies jumping people, which characters like again Riki and BH can do and solo people very easily in plenty of cases. As of the newest patch, BH also straight up steals gold from enemy heroes with every jinada too. (With a cooldown of 12/9/6/3 as it's leveled) SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't get why people have to so rabidly defend their pet moba. I'm mostly just doing it because a handful of people have made "Heh, maybe it'd be good if [X]" and then it does in fact have [X] lol Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 04:16
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Yardbomb posted:Because assists are really easy to be included in and are very generous anyway in Dota 2. Not to mention the example gank characters having good execute type moves too, Bounty Hunter having two even with shuriken and jinada, also gank implies jumping people, which characters like again Riki and BH can do and solo people very easily in plenty of cases. As of the newest patch, BH also straight up steals gold from enemy heroes with every jinada too. (With a cooldown of 12/9/6/3 as it's leveled) I haven't played DotA for a long while so I wasn't aware that Assists had been added. By my memory, whoever got the kill was the only one who got the gold (and which was a large reason why I stopped playing in the first place - I got tired of people flipping their poo poo over my securing a kill they weren't going to get). Thank you for educating me. That said, I'm still not convinced that Last Hitting is a good mechanic in any form and nothing you've presented has come close to changing my stance on that. SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't get why people have to so rabidly defend their pet moba. Is it sunk cost because they don't want to spend their time on a game that isn't perfect or something? I play league dota hots and smite at different times and all of them are fun in their own way. If this is reference to me, there's a big difference between having a discussion about why Last Hitting is bad and rabidly defending HotS. If it's not, then it's because of basic tribalism. People want other people to like what they like, so they go out of their way to convince other people to like what they like.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:48
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So does dota have interesting objectives yet other than "farm forever until you can afford items to snowball into an unfun pushing deathball"?
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Dec 22, 2018 07:10
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Toothy posted:So does dota have interesting objectives yet other than "farm forever until you can afford items to snowball into an unfun pushing deathball"? Runes that periodically spawn in the river which are a random effect of a few possibilities, jungle camps of varying strength, a big boss in the river that drops aegis, which is an item that brings you back to full life after dying. You can also always go and gank carries to prevent them from farming, making that not happen. Dota 2 also has a poo poo ton of custom modes. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 08:23
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Kith posted:"Wait for minor enemies to be low-health so you can kill them at the last second to claim credit" is pretty loving tedious when you have to do it constantly, especially when the actual point of the game is to defeat opponent players. The key is that there's someone else there, and you don't want them to kill it. You also don't want them hitting it. I like HotS, but HotS farming is farming that requires no thought. DotA farming requires you to engage with the enemy from the very start.
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Dec 22, 2018 09:17
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this is hilarious cuz it's like league players complaining about denying.Toady posted:I think a lot of MOBA players never gave it a chance because it was viewed as a shallow teamfighter for people who read Blizzard novels. adding a bunch of people i'd never heard of instead of classic characters was a big one for me. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 10:15
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Moola posted:HoTs is getting taken out back to be shot because the devs were morons and Activision sucks I think a lot of MOBA players never gave it a chance because it was viewed as a shallow teamfighter for people who read Blizzard novels.
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Dec 22, 2018 10:25
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Cuntellectual posted:The key is that there's someone else there, and you don't want them to kill it. You also don't want them hitting it. the fact that last hitting creates a complex situation isn't really in question. that's not what "tedious" means, "tedious" means that despite the system being complex it still isn't interesting or fun to engage in.
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Dec 22, 2018 10:32
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Charles Bukowski posted:Cwordlecctual lmao ninjewtsu posted:the fact that last hitting creates a complex situation isn't really in question. that's not what "tedious" means, "tedious" means that despite the system being complex it still isn't interesting or fun to engage in. If you don't enjoy fighting enemy players, and you don't enjoy avoiding enemy players to play farmville, then no, dota has nothing to offer. 
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Dec 22, 2018 11:02
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Irony Be My Shield posted:You can also play support if you don't want to last hit. Yeah but then you're spending a large majority of your time stacking creeps and warding with the occasional gank. Dota 2 would be better w/o a lot of its weird idiosyncrasies but people got used to them over the years and they are now fundamental to the game. Personally I can get over all the annoying bits except turn speed, that poo poo just makes the game feel so bad to play. HoN was on the right path but S2 ruined that game more than Blizz ruined HotS.
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Dec 22, 2018 11:53
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the turn speed complaint makes even less sense to me than last hitting. there's a bunch of cool poo poo you can do due to it.
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Dec 22, 2018 11:59
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Groovelord Neato posted:the turn speed complaint makes even less sense to me than last hitting. there's a bunch of cool poo poo you can do due to it. Yeah like not be able to properly kite. There are better ways to balance heroes than making them turn like molasses.
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Dec 22, 2018 12:07
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what are you talking about.
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Dec 22, 2018 12:15
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Cuntellectual posted:lmao I like fighting enemy players I don't like contesting the final few hit points of minions constantly, for tiny rewards that nontheless are crippling to ignore long term. I want to smack around enemy players. I could play exclusively gankers or something but if I'm not into all of the other baggage that comes with that other than "doesn't have to deal with last hitting" I'm kind of out of luck
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Dec 22, 2018 12:29
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ninjewtsu posted:I could play exclusively gankers or something but if I'm not into all of the other baggage that comes with that other than "doesn't have to deal with last hitting" I'm kind of out of luck i don't like last hitting personally so that's what i've always done (or lane bullies).
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Dec 22, 2018 12:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:what are you talking about. I would like ask you the same. What is this “cool poo poo” you can do because of different turn speeds? To someone like me that just makes last-hitting and trading harder because now I need something else to take in account besides attack damage and attack speed. In a game with 100+ different characters. I am genuinely curious, because right now I think it is something for the “game is harder = game is better” audience.
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Dec 22, 2018 12:36
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Dotes is bad
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Dec 22, 2018 12:51
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moush posted:Yeah but then you're spending a large majority of your time stacking creeps and warding with the occasional gank. This isn't true at all though, if you're playing right (The fun way) you're constantly positioning to set up kills and kneecapping fuckers for your carry buddy to run up and brain.
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Dec 22, 2018 12:52
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Yardbomb posted:This isn't true at all though, if you're playing right (The fun way) you're constantly positioning to set up kills and kneecapping fuckers for your carry buddy to run up and brain. lol if you play Dota for fun
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Dec 22, 2018 12:54
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Mierenneuker posted:I would like ask you the same. What is this “cool poo poo” you can do because of different turn speeds? To someone like me that just makes last-hitting and trading harder because now I need something else to take in account besides attack damage and attack speed. In a game with 100+ different characters. i'll give a specific hero example. my favorite hero is sand king. sand king has a stun where he burrows along a line. sand king also has an aoe damage ultimate that has a channel before it goes off and if that channel is stopped the ult goes on cooldown. say i'm against another hero with a stun. if that hero is facing me i can stun through him, channel and get my ult off before that hero can turn and cast their stun and get the kill. turn speed isn't even that slow it gives you just enough time to pull it off. the only time i even notice turn speed is when batrider throws sticky napalm on me. i played league a lot before dota2 came out and it was never a bother moving over. Moola posted:lol if you play Dota for fun all of these games are bad. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 12:55
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Groovelord Neato posted:all of these games are bad. yeah Mobas kinda suck rear end but there's just something about the skill shots and interesting abilities that keeps my interests Basically I just want the wc3 remake so someone can make something like a Moba, but fun and cool
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Dec 22, 2018 13:00
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Moola posted:Basically I just want the wc3 remake so someone can make something like a Moba, but fun and cool it's called tides of blood!
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Dec 22, 2018 13:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's called tides of blood! 
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Dec 22, 2018 13:09
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I like turning speed and they've done some interesting things in dota with it but HotS doesn't have to be the same. I like that it's different, more casual etc. Gonna stand by my advice of fixing the game by making all the heroes free.
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Dec 22, 2018 15:32
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Turn speed allows for God's chosen hero, Bristleback.
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Dec 22, 2018 15:37
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't get why people have to so rabidly defend their pet moba. No one say that I have ever defended HOTS- that is slanderous and I will sue
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Dec 22, 2018 15:37
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Yardbomb posted:Last hitting isn't even hard nor tedious, it's just a simple addition to laning you can do or not do if you're playing for dumb fun or whatever in the babby levels of the game, you can literally just not do it, pick a gank character. Pick Riki and go from lane to lane killing people. Pick someone like Kotl who just throws a giant wall down the lane so you kill creeps and hurt the enemy at the same time. Buy a Hand of Midas and just click the creeps for gold occasionally. There's so many solutions to like every overwrought problem people seem to have with such an easy mechanic. no see dota bad because I picked antimage 10 years ago and I had to farm items
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Dec 22, 2018 17:35
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Imagine being in charge of saying yes or no to this kind of thing, and seeing this, AND SAYING NO https://twitter.com/Parker_Animator/status/1076252443581734913
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Dec 22, 2018 17:36
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Well, it is very distracting by its sheer awesomeness, I can see how gameplay could suffer from it.
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Dec 22, 2018 18:24
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