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Ghost Leviathan posted:He was actually raised by the Doom Patrol, one of the more out-there superhero teams of the DC universe, after being orphaned at a young age. He's got more of a military brat thing going for him, but the important part is that he's never really known any life other than a superhero. That said, like nearly all the Titans are outsiders in some way or another, Cyborg had the closest to an ordinary life and struggles with how he's never going to be normal again. I was talking about the Young Justice version, since that's the version Liquid Communism brought up. But the Transformed is probably the best fit for that version, and I'd say "animal shapeshifting" is a perfectly valid add to the Transformed's ability options.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:52
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Shapeshifting is a tricky power to portray, though I think the key aspect for Beast Boy, whose powers are specifically limited to animals, is that he's basically the team's heavy physical hitter and flexible provider of outside-the-box solutions. Despite being a lazy goofball he can keep up and contribute in nearly any situation where some sort of animal would be able to (and that goes all the way down to bacteria and all the way up to whales), though he rarely has a silver bullet that can solve a problem without effort.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:57
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Transforming characters have always been a difficult nut to crack for RPGs, going back to things like lycanthropes in OD&D (all the way through to trying to balance things like Druid class abilities in 3E). The usual paradigm for superhero RPGs (point buy) just curls into a ball and whimpers when it tries to mechanically account for changing shape. Or mecha/vehicle systems that have to account for variable-form craft like the Veritech. Just a tough haul, design-wise. The only game I've seen deal with it semi-successfully is Werewolf, where 1) everyone gets the same shapeshifting powerset, and 2) there's a very limited number of well-defined shapes you can shift into.
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Dec 19, 2018 16:28
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Dawgstar posted:Now that it's brought up I don't know any playbook has 'turn into animal' powers. The big secret with Masks is that since the powers have no mechanical dimension to them, you can swap powers around between playbooks or even make entirely new ones up as long as you take care not to go against your playbook's theme and narrative arc.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:09
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Lemon-Lime posted:The big secret with Masks is that since the powers have no mechanical dimension to them, you can swap powers around between playbooks or even make entirely new ones up as long as you take care not to go against your playbook's theme and narrative arc. Correct. Also, side note, the Transformed has "malleable flesh" as an option, which is certainly broad enough to cover animal shapeshifting. I missed that earlier.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:49
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... and apparently Modiphius has taken over the publishing rights/responsibilites to Vampire 5E from White Wolf. Also announced the Fall of London chronicle for V5 https://www.modiphius.com/modiphius-press-releases/modiphius-embraces-world-of-darkness-announces-the-fall-of-london-v5-chronicle
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Dec 20, 2018 17:50
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It's funny that the Masks book itself IDs Beast Boy as a playbook no one's mentioned in the conversation, the Legacy. I never really agreed with that, since no one likes the Doom Patrol and it's not like he's being held up to the famous standard of Robot Man. I always saw him as a weird variation on the Bull, between his fierce dedication to Terra and his difficulty letting threats slide by.
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Dec 21, 2018 05:44
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Yeah, he's a pretty poor Legacy when you have Robin (and depending on the version Superboy) running around.
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Dec 21, 2018 08:59
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theironjef posted:It's funny that the Masks book itself IDs Beast Boy as a playbook no one's mentioned in the conversation, the Legacy. I never really agreed with that, since no one likes the Doom Patrol and it's not like he's being held up to the famous standard of Robot Man. tbf CapFalcon actually brought that up very early in the conversation. Morrison's run on Doom Patrol was great, but not exactly what most people think of in a superhero book, and yeah Robot Man was really the only carryover character in that iteration.
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Dec 21, 2018 09:17
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The only Beast Boy I'm particularly familiar with is the Young Justice version, admittedly, but but that one definitely doesn't map as cleanly to any particular playbook. He's not angsty enough to be Transformed, not alien enough to be the Outsider, not enough of a jerk to be the Delinquent, and not mundane enough to be the Beacon. His power set is probably a little too versatile for the Bull's themes, and he doesn't have a mentor or forebear to be the Protege or the Legacy- (Sidebar, I kind of feel like "non-powered hero trying to prove themselves" and "hero who just loves being a superhero and is here because it's fun," while complementary, are also distinct enough that they could have been two separate playbooks.) EDIT: Looking at the Delinquent again, you could maybe just about make Beast Boy fit if you took Criminal Mind, Troublemaker, and Are You Watching Closely?, because he does spend a fair bit of time pranking and infuriating the bad guys, but it's a bit of a stretch, and Speedy/Arsenal is clearly the better fit for that playbook on the show. If I was going to design a playbook for Beast Boy (again, specifically the Young Justice version, because that's the one I know), I'd probably go for something like the inverse of the Beacon and the Janus--the hero who's with the team because they have nowhere else to be, either because their family is all gone, their powers don't let them live safely among normal people, or because powerful villains want to control them for reasons. Maybe call it the Wayward or the Orphan. GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Dec 21, 2018 |
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Dec 21, 2018 09:42
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GimpInBlack posted:If I was going to design a playbook for Beast Boy (again, specifically the Young Justice version, because that's the one I know), I'd probably go for something like the inverse of the Beacon and the Janus--the hero who's with the team because they have nowhere else to be, either because their family is all gone, their powers don't let them live safely among normal people, or because powerful villains want to control them for reasons. Maybe call it the Wayward or the Orphan. That feels like a solid enough theme to carry a playbook, though you probably want to be careful not to step on the Scion, Transformed and Nova's toes accidentally. I think it probably works a little better if their powers just make them a bit gross or grotesque rather than outright too powerful/dangerous to live in civilisation - stuff like the Morlocks in X-Men should probably be another point of reference. You can have "animal head" as one of the look options, powers like acid spit, etc. I like Wayward as the name, though it's a shame calling it "the Runaway" doesn't really work here. 
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Dec 21, 2018 10:50
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Lemon-Lime posted:That feels like a solid enough theme to carry a playbook, though you probably want to be careful not to step on the Scion, Transformed and Nova's toes accidentally. I think it probably works a little better if their powers just make them a bit gross or grotesque rather than outright too powerful/dangerous to live in civilisation - stuff like the Morlocks in X-Men should probably be another point of reference. You can have "animal head" as one of the look options, powers like acid spit, etc. I don't really see this intersecting with the Scion or the Nova at all--sure, both of them could be members of the team because they have nowhere else to go, but the main thrust of their identities are "proving I'm not like my villain parent" and "I am a walking natural disaster struggling to control my powers," respectively. The Transformed comes closest to hitting the themes of isolation I'm looking at, but the Transformed turns that isolation inward--I'm a freak, I'm inhuman, I'm cut off from the rest of humanity--whereas I'm thinking more about a sort of external isolation, if that makes sense--I have no one left, I've been abandoned, if I don't do this I have nothing. In fact, no, as much as Wayward is a good name for a playbook, it's not this one. This is the Foundling--like the Janus, they had a normal life, but they lost it tragically and mysteriously, and they're trying to find a way to let the team in to become a surrogate family, but they're still too hurt by their loss to really let anyone in. Like the Beacon, they need to prove themselves to the rest of the heroes--but not because they want to be part of the action, but because it's basically this or living on the street. Its core extra, like the Beacon's Drives or the Janus's Secret Identity, would be the Mystery, trying to solve their parents murder/find their missing sibling/learn about their past or what have you, and its moves would probably focus on bouncing between "I don't need anybody else!" and "Actually yeah, the family that matters is the family that chooses us." It would cover Robin/Nightwing if you wanted to focus the core of the character on the death of the Flying Graysons, but it would also cover Rogue (or, really, pretty much any mutant) being dumped at Xavier's school and abandoned by a family that doesn't understand them or fears them, or even a literal foundling, like a young Superman if you wanted to focus more on the angst of "why did my parents send me away to Earth?" before he finds the Fortress of Solitude and Kryptonian hologram-dad. ...dammit, now I might have to actually write this.
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Dec 21, 2018 11:35
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GimpInBlack posted:I don't really see this intersecting with the Scion or the Nova at all--sure, both of them could be members of the team because they have nowhere else to go, but the main thrust of their identities are "proving I'm not like my villain parent" and "I am a walking natural disaster struggling to control my powers," respectively. The Transformed comes closest to hitting the themes of isolation I'm looking at, but the Transformed turns that isolation inward--I'm a freak, I'm inhuman, I'm cut off from the rest of humanity--whereas I'm thinking more about a sort of external isolation, if that makes sense--I have no one left, I've been abandoned, if I don't do this I have nothing. Yeah, this is why I said "it's a solid theme but just be mindful not to accidentally step on their toes" and not "this overlaps with other playbooks so it's not needed." It's thematically a little adjacent to those existing playbooks.It's definitely a solid playbook concept that someone should write.
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Dec 21, 2018 11:53
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GimpInBlack posted:The only Beast Boy I'm particularly familiar with is the Young Justice version, admittedly, but but that one definitely doesn't map as cleanly to any particular playbook. He's not angsty enough to be Transformed, not alien enough to be the Outsider, not enough of a jerk to be the Delinquent, and not mundane enough to be the Beacon. His power set is probably a little too versatile for the Bull's themes, and he doesn't have a mentor or forebear to be the Protege or the Legacy- (Sidebar, I kind of feel like "non-powered hero trying to prove themselves" and "hero who just loves being a superhero and is here because it's fun," while complementary, are also distinct enough that they could have been two separate playbooks.) I don't think the Young Justice version of him is ever focused on enough to really "earn" a playbook. He's a background element on that show, basically a prop to give Meg'han a new backstory element in Season 2.
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Dec 21, 2018 15:41
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On a tangent, I don't think I've ever seen a discussion relating to Young Justice go on for this long without someone crawling out of the woodwork to rage about how it's the worst superhero cartoon ever created.
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Dec 21, 2018 15:52
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Its not even the worst tv versions of the characters. I mean, the Live Action Titans exists.
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Dec 21, 2018 15:55
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Beast Boy is a bit of an odd niche role-wise since among the Titans he actually tends to have the least outward issues and is a pretty stereotypical lazy teenage slob (and is BFFs with Cyborg for being among the relatively well-adjusted and casual Titans) but as said, most of his focus episodes revolve around how he really has nothing else to do but be a superhero or a circus freak. Orphan or Foundling works, and it's a very common concept for younger superheroes, especially like half the X-Men; people who aren't so much trying to make a normal life for themselves because they know that's well out of reach, but trying to make normality out of their status as a superpowered being. They don't have anywhere to go back to, is probably the key point, and they aren't searching for a specific goal so much as simply finding a meaning for their existence and a stable equilibrium. It seems by necessity this mentality is more team-focused; they are indeed trying to make a substitute family out of their weird peers, who are the only ones that can really understand them, and maybe more broader socially if you have someone who's trying to connect with a wider community, either to get wider society to accept them for their differences while also recognising they're just another person who wants friends, food and dating prospects, or to help build a community among the disparate freaks. Possibly something to the idea of being between worlds, though it sounds like other archetypes also cover that; Beast Boy is a vegetarian by choice because since he can turn into any animal, he feels an affinity with them and feels him eating meat of any kind is more or less cannibalism. His perspective of the world is unique because of the perspective his transformations offer. (actually can be a theme with some shapeshifting characters, maybe that can be its own thing)
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Dec 21, 2018 16:21
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Fuego Fish posted:On a tangent, I don't think I've ever seen a discussion relating to Young Justice go on for this long without someone crawling out of the woodwork to rage about how it's the worst superhero cartoon ever created. I'm not surprised that's a Thing, but I've honestly never seen it.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:40
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Fuego Fish posted:On a tangent, I don't think I've ever seen a discussion relating to Young Justice go on for this long without someone crawling out of the woodwork to rage about how it's the worst superhero cartoon ever created. Same but for the opposite, especially Opinions on Teen Titans Go
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Dec 21, 2018 17:50
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Tbh, this is a mjajor issue I have with these kinda playbooks, it seems like it's less supportive of some natural play story decelopments than complete customization of powers? Though PBTA has never gelled with me super well.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:54
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Zephirum posted:Same but for the opposite, especially Opinions on Teen Titans Go I can't see hating on either tbh except for the utter nerdiest of reasons.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:56
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dwarf74 posted:Young Justice is great, and Teen Titans Go is a lot of fun. I have some issues with the first half of Young Justice's first season, particularly how hard it leans into the "it's a g-g-g-girl!" trope with Miss Martian, but I somehow doubt that's what Internet randos who come out of the woodwork to bitch would be mad about.
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Dec 21, 2018 18:27
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GimpInBlack posted:I have some issues with the first half of Young Justice's first season, particularly how hard it leans into the "it's a g-g-g-girl!" trope with Miss Martian, but I somehow doubt that's what Internet randos who come out of the woodwork to bitch would be mad about.
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Dec 21, 2018 19:17
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GimpInBlack posted:I have some issues with the first half of Young Justice's first season, particularly how hard it leans into the "it's a g-g-g-girl!" trope with Miss Martian, but I somehow doubt that's what Internet randos who come out of the woodwork to bitch would be mad about. Having re-watched it recently, the only thing I feel like is a valid complaint off the top of my head is there's a whole lot of Greg Weisman indulging his "just as planned" fetish no matter what happens to the villains.
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Dec 21, 2018 20:47
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Dawgstar posted:Having re-watched it recently, the only thing I feel like is a valid complaint off the top of my head is there's a whole lot of Greg Weisman indulging his "just as planned" fetish no matter what happens to the villains. Yeah but let's face it, it makes those end-of-season moments where the kids gently caress up all their poo poo infinitely more satisfying.
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Dec 21, 2018 21:39
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Moriatti posted:Tbh, this is a mjajor issue I have with these kinda playbooks, it seems like it's less supportive of some natural play story decelopments than complete customization of powers? I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean. We're talking about a system where "the story comes first" is literally enshrined in the rules, and your superhero powers have no mechanical effect.
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Dec 21, 2018 21:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean. I assume by 'natural story developments' they mean 'rather than the game providing a narrative framework, it just simulates a quasi-physical reality and events play out according to those rules and player decisions' - it's like saying D&D produced stories more realistically because there's no framework insisting on a satisfying narrative. I don't have a ton of regard for the position but I understand where it comes from.
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Dec 21, 2018 22:17
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It's more that in my experience people tend to reach for their mechanical triggers or push the narrative mechanics more as mechanics than as narrative? I like some aspects of the system, failing forwards is useful and bonds are cool, but I just didn't click super hard with the system. Not that D&D is often better, I don't have an ideal solution, I juat know that there are a lot of times where PBTA felt unnatural or my decisions felt less impactful than in other systems.
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Dec 21, 2018 22:54
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Dawgstar posted:Having re-watched it recently, the only thing I feel like is a valid complaint off the top of my head is there's a whole lot of Greg Weisman indulging his "just as planned" fetish no matter what happens to the villains. Also everyone has a terrible catchphrase or something. "Hello Megan" left me so cold I only caught season 2 on Netflix. Runner-up issue, Superboy collecting lame edgy pets.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:05
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Always felt it was kinda fitting with how teenagers are pretty easy to manipulate if you know how, but then you take your eye off them for five minutes and suddenly who knows what they'll do. That said, I felt they shoulda kept up with doing things different from Teen Titans. Hell, have the Titans exist as a team seperately from the Jr Justice League with teen clique rivalry and all.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:28
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Zephirum posted:Same but for the opposite, especially Opinions on Teen Titans Go I think TTG takes a lot of flack because the more serious series before it was good, and really well loved, so a version that's basically an animated shitpost with CN's 'edgy' mid-00's humor didn't go over well.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:55
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theironjef posted:Also everyone has a terrible catchphrase or something. "Hello Megan" left me so cold I only caught season 2 on Netflix. Runner-up issue, Superboy collecting lame edgy pets. Yeah, while I do enjoy the show I could do without the Seinfeld-esque 'you always hear people are disgruntled is anyone just gruntled' stuff Weisman also is a big fan of.
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Dec 22, 2018 05:12
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Young Justice had some good points but also some pretty big flaws. I think it took them about the whole season to figure out what they wanted to do with it.
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Dec 22, 2018 05:23
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, while I do enjoy the show I could do without the Seinfeld-esque 'you always hear people are disgruntled is anyone just gruntled' stuff Weisman also is a big fan of. Yeah, Robin's dialog was so Gallagher in season 1 I'm surprised they didn't have him bo staff smashing some watermelons.
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Dec 22, 2018 06:06
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GimpInBlack posted:If I was going to design a playbook for Beast Boy (again, specifically the Young Justice version, because that's the one I know), I'd probably go for something like the inverse of the Beacon and the Janus--the hero who's with the team because they have nowhere else to be, either because their family is all gone, their powers don't let them live safely among normal people, or because powerful villains want to control them for reasons. Maybe call it the Wayward or the Orphan. Or the Nomad? (The Nomad is a playbook in the Unbound "dimension-hopper" expansion. Thematically they're kind of Starlord, but you can find and replace "outer-space weirdness" with "Doom Patrol weirdness" fairly easily. Nobody ever gets Influence over them; they give it out, and they get benefits from it but people also get more out of having Influence over them.)
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Dec 23, 2018 00:23
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The Nomad is all about always being 5 minutes away from just bugging out of this dimension, only being held back by the handful of friendships they've formed on Earth, and their player has to take special care to actually give out influence lest they end up with no good reason to stick around. That's the polar opposite of a character whose core conceit is having lost their place in the world and actively trying to turn The Team into a replacement family.
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Dec 23, 2018 01:59
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Yeah, Nomad really, really makes me think Dr. Manhattan more than anything. Just barely interested in the world and only really here for a couple people.
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Dec 23, 2018 04:18
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Could also be a Silver Surfer type, a time traveller, or other sorts of mystical/cosmic beings that hang around simply because it's where the fun's at. Often the kind of character that can be explained dropping in and out whenever it suits them and being a little of a wildcard. Maybe a bit of a Q. Or a Doctor Who. (funny thing is the DS9 ep with Q implies that when he's not annoying the Enterprise crew, Q basically Doctor Whos around the universe with a sassy companion to make things interesting)
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Dec 23, 2018 05:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Could also be a Silver Surfer type, a time traveller, or other sorts of mystical/cosmic beings that hang around simply because it's where the fun's at. Often the kind of character that can be explained dropping in and out whenever it suits them and being a little of a wildcard. Maybe a bit of a Q. Or a Doctor Who. (funny thing is the DS9 ep with Q implies that when he's not annoying the Enterprise crew, Q basically Doctor Whos around the universe with a sassy companion to make things interesting) I caught the TNG 'Q is suddenly human' episode the other night at 4am, and it did so much to explain his character. Like his solution to a problem was 'just change the local gravitational constant' like it's ordering take-out on a weekend.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:52
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Liquid Communism posted:I caught the TNG 'Q is suddenly human' episode the other night at 4am, and it did so much to explain his character. Like his solution to a problem was 'just change the local gravitational constant' like it's ordering take-out on a weekend. If it had been, say, a Joss Whedon show, we would have had a minimum of half a season of Human Q hanging out with the crew, and that would have been kind of delightful.
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Dec 23, 2018 14:06
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