Gene Wolfe: these books are basically the Dark Souls of reading

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Gene Wolfe: these books are basically the Dark Souls of reading

«‹›43 »

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

How's the prose?

i read your review and it made some fascinating points (posted this in the other thread but i didn't realise how long ago your review was so it can go here instead):

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

The Bad Faith of the Illuminator

- The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (1988)

When one reads the extremely dense Shadow of the Torturer, one is not reminded of literature but of cinema: specifically, Park Chan-wook�s 2003 neo-noir fantasy film and overrated festival circuit darling Oldboy. Intelligent viewers will understand that the movie�s strength lies cunningly taut editing. Any filler or potential dead space eliminated, scenes blend into each other with strange ease, but the pacing is so relaxed that the abruptness of the scene transitions is never too jarring. To use a phrase dangerously close to a clich�, the movie operate on the logic of dreams. To use a phrase nowhere near to a clich�, the movie operates by the logic of intoxication, which is why the protagonist is introduced as a confused drunk.

The movie�s narrative provides a constant stream of strange revelations and of developments whose cause and effect is obscured or oblique. But Park does not interrogate the nature of fantasy, and the effect only accentuates pulp sadism. The audience is mesmerized into a state of passive uneasiness and low awareness, like the movie�s hero, holding their breath in anticipation of violence. Consequently, they experience and learn nothing of interest. Oldboy is just an exercise in slick sadism, as is extremely dense Shadow of the Torturer.

Gene Wolfe�s first in entry in the extremely dense Book of the New Sun quartet/quintet/racket introduces us to another �dying Earth,� a type of pulp fantasy/sci-fi setting where decay and ramshackle tradition rule during an apocalypse so slow that most people have had to get used to it. Severian is an initiate in the torturer�s guild, a satirical device that in Wolfe�s hands always fails to get a laugh. The novel charts his years as an apprentice, journeyman, and as an exile, surrounded by portents, vague factions, and supernatural manipulations. The singular strength of Wolfe�s writing in The Shadow of the Torturer is the hypnotic pacing of his prose, the strange ease with which sentences and scenes meld into each other.

Shadow of the Torturer is a dense book with slow pacing

quote:

Severian, as narrator, prefers not to inquire or speculate after the bizarre and the unusual, but instead accepts these developments passively even as greater forces seem to make themselves known. This engenders nervous stupefaction and expectation in the reader, who is torn between curiosity and placid acceptance. Thus no excerpt suffices to properly display the extremely dense prose of The Shadow of the Torturer, for it would have to be impossibly long to capture its pace. Thus quotations appear unrepresentative of the extremely dense novel even when they are all too revealing of Wolfe�s skills as a prose stylist.

His prose might be backhandedly praised as �readable�. Being readable is a desirable quality for any work of writing, but if a book is praised for it, there is probably little else to it. Seek no further than the metafictional �translator�s notes� for proof: nobles cannot be nobles but exultants, knights cannot be knights but armigers, the bourgeoisie must be optimates, and so on. Conversely, common words may disguise alien concepts. For Wolfe extremely dense vocabulary is a substitute for craftsmanship. Gallicisms, Latinate, and Greek are peppered throughout to spice up amateurish Anglo-Saxon:

Wolfe uses complicated words

quote:

Wolfe always writes incompletely. The scene above is defined by fire-light, but does almost nothing to describe effects or qualities of light. We understand that the bridge is well-lit, but the light of fires and torches is vibrant and inconsistent. Consider how Wolfe is describing what should be a chiaroscuro scene of urban night-life, yet nowhere do we read of the play of light and shadow on the grotesque extremes of ostentation and poverty. The tableau is static. And where Wolfe ventures to describe the qualities of light, he is erroneous: his windows glare like fireworks, but fireworks do not glare. They burst, sparkle, and dissipate. Such abuses of English are common in extremely dense Shadow of the Torturer.

The monotony of Wolfe�s prose is as clear here as it is everywhere else. Consider the first sentence: �When it seemed that it must soon be day, I saw upon the broad, black ribbon of the river a line of sparks that were not the lights of vessels but fixed fires stretching from bank to bank�. We do not read that Severian observed this �at daybreak,� but �when it seemed that it must soon be day�. We do not read that there was �a line of sparks,� but of �a line of sparks that were not the lights of vessels�. The monosyllabic evenness lends the sentence a breathless quality, which affixes the reader from beginning to end. But to follow such an effort with a phrase as utterly drab as �it was a bridge� puts the lie to any claim that Wolfe�s prose is remarkable.

Evenness is the watch-word for the extremely dense Shadow of the Torturer. The prose is stretched and rounded out so as to be read as a single invocation. The more unusual vocabulary might be imagined as ritual Latinisms in an otherwise vernacular Mass. But Wolfe�s prose cannot affect the psychology of faith, for there is no sorrow, joy, supplication, or ecstasy in Wolfe�s droning. This monotony is occasionally quickened, but not broken, when sentences run on to suggest rising emotional pitch:

Wolfe writes long sentences with complicated words

quote:

These outpourings remain as mechanically wearisome, because they merely give an impression of agitation rather than the real thing. Wolfe�s extremely dense prose is as cold and inert as his dying sun.

I don't like his long sentences with complicated words

quote:

If one points to such flaws, Wolfe�s fans are wont to argue that its very badness is proof of his genius, for only he could have conceived such a convincing impression of a writer as bad as Severian. This can be dismissed firstly because these are the same fans who will argue that Wolfe�s prose is masterful, and thus they are loving liars. And secondly, while Severian undeniably writes badly, he fails as such a character, for Severian is not a character at all. Truly, fascinatingly bad writers have depth to their awfulness, but Severian has no distinguishable voice or personality, let alone that of a bad writer. He does not represent any discernible human type or experience. He consists simply four tones of narration: modestly assertive, obsequiously self-denying, sharply observant, and philosophically musing. No doubt fans will next argue that bad characterization is proof of Wolfe�s genius, for it shows how the vague powers that guide Severian have molded him into a literary nonentity. One wonders if the fanboy theorists have solved the mystery of why so many women throw themselves at him. And thirdly, according to the novel's metafictional device, the text is a translation: the blame may be squarely be laid on the incompetence of the translator-author.

people say he writes badly on purpose, they're wrong, he writes badly because he's bad and i don't like severian because he's boring and women like him

quote:

Severian represents a fantasy that is familiar from later genre hacks: of being mocked and maltreated by the universe while remaining the centre of said universe. It is one of the wonders of genre literature that Cugel the Clever, the monstrously selfish anti-hero from Jack Vance�s dying Earth, comes off as less fundamentally egoistic than someone as vacuous as Severian. Cugel at least seems interested in the world and the people around him, even if it is merely for his own advantage. Severian has nothing to him, and from the first chapter we know that he shall be the ruler of his nation. Subsequent novels further underline his importance. The torturer�s apprentice is the precursor of FitzChivarly Farseer and Kvothe the Kingkiller, self-pitying narrator-heroes without personality, whose misfortunes appear as validation of their central role in the grand scheme of things. Wolfe is a child playing with toys compared to Samuel Beckett, who in his trilogy of Molloy, Malone Dies, and The Unnamable charted new continents of existential incomprehension and suffering.

i really don't like severian because he's boring

quote:

There only remains Wolfe�s puzzle-plot remains for disposal. Fans have through the years taken up the task of deciphering the extremely dense narrative of The Book of the New Sun in a poor imitation of scholarship. These fans no doubt object to claims that Wolfe bamboozles the reader, as his puzzle-plot is a device to develop and educate readers in the understanding of texts. But this is a misunderstanding of the act of reading and the value of literacy. The Book of the New Sun leads the reader to try to discover the truth beyond Severian�s words, for he does not understand his story, but this is an anti-literary exercise. To try to discover what lies �beneath� the surface of the text is to declare the text itself secondary and irrelevant, what Barthes warned against in �The Death of the Author�. The pleasure of literature is not in what lies beneath its surface, but in the surface itself.

people think this book is clever because it's complicated but it's actually not clever it's dumb because complicated books are dumb

quote:

If the true story of The Book of the New Sun are the intrigues peered between Severian�s words, then Severian�s words � the prose - are ultimately an obstacle to be overcome. If the goal for the reader is to reject the text as flawed, one will do just as well by not reading it in the first place. Wolfe does not teach readers to understand texts, but to understand a text. The skills necessary to disentangle the extremely dense plot of The Book of the New Sun do not translate into understanding of other literary works. These skills are applicable merely to deciphering the plot content of one series, which might superficially resemble an intellectual activity, but is really only a laborious one. This is the ultimate failure of the puzzle-plot: it is an exercise in complexity rather than in nuance. The artistic, educational, and intellectual value of Wolfe�s work can be perfectly replicated by watching Dark Souls �lore� videos on YouTube. They�re about as dense.

people who like these books probably like video games

# ? Dec 22, 2018 04:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 17, 2024 16:21

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

sebmojo posted:

i read your review and it made some fascinating points (posted this in the other thread but i didn't realise how long ago your review was so it can go here instead):

Shadow of the Torturer is a dense book with slow pacing

Wolfe uses complicated words

Wolfe writes long sentences with complicated words

I don't like his long sentences with complicated words

people say he writes badly on purpose, they're wrong, he writes badly because he's bad and i don't like severian because he's boring and women like him

i really don't like severian because he's boring

people think this book is clever because it's complicated but it's actually not clever it's dumb because complicated books are dumb

people who like these books probably like video games

I'm not sure why you're misrepresenting rather basic points. The criticism of the prose, for example, isn't about the sentences being "complicated" (Wolfe's sentences aren't complicated), but the general lack of affect. The unusual vocabulary doesn't mask how the prose just drones most of the time.

# ? Dec 22, 2018 11:45

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Yes: that's what I said. It was a summary, or 'précis' of your words.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 00:39

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

sebmojo posted:

Yes: that's what I said. It was a summary, or 'précis' of your words.

It wasn't. You're simply blaspheming against truth.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 03:22

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

It wasn't. You're simply blaspheming against truth.

ok little buddy

# ? Dec 23, 2018 05:41

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

sebmojo posted:

ok little buddy

That was a quote from a Wolfe fan's response to his original post.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 05:57

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

It explains a lot that someone thinks "long sentences with complicated words" constitutes a literary style.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 11:20

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

It explains a lot that someone thinks "long sentences with complicated words" constitutes a literary style.

ok, little buddy

# ? Dec 23, 2018 14:10

less laughter: May 7, 2012; Accelerock & Roll

ElGroucho posted:

Goddamn, gotta say, rereads are indeed a must. On second read, I realized why Jonas is freaking out when they get stuck in captivity. I thought at first he was having trouble dealing with finding out Korean names are so far in the past they no longer exist, but that doesn't make sense. He's made peace with being in a world he doesn't recognize. He's freaking out because he isn't going to die in 80 years like the rest of the eternal captives. How long has he been alive? Centuries? Millenia? How much longer would he be stuck in that loving place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAKoa9cm0-U

# ? Dec 23, 2018 14:57

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

I interrupt this argument to bring you the cover of Starwater Strains by Gene Wolfe

Thank you, you may now return to the bickering already in progress

# ? Dec 23, 2018 16:08

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

The Vosgian Beast posted:

I interrupt this argument to bring you the cover of Starwater Strains by Gene Wolfe

Thank you, you may now return to the bickering already in progress

The Calamity story is an all-time great short about an all-time great dog.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 17:57

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Recommended by Neil Gaiman.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 19:22

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I am very interested to hear what makes Gene Wolfe dangerous

# ? Dec 23, 2018 19:42

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I am very interested to hear what makes Gene Wolfe dangerous

Presumably whatever led to the restraining order.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 19:44

Drone Jett: Feb 21, 2017; by Fluffdaddy; College Slice

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I am very interested to hear what makes Gene Wolfe dangerous

Carrying around that dog visor book in public probably elevates your chance of receiving a wedgie substantially.

# ? Dec 23, 2018 21:13

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I am very interested to hear what makes Gene Wolfe dangerous

Catholic propaganda

# ? Dec 23, 2018 21:22

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

less laughter posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAKoa9cm0-U

lmfao

# ? Dec 24, 2018 15:08

less laughter: May 7, 2012; Accelerock & Roll

https://twitter.com/M_A_Frasca/status/1081361694625017856

:toot:

# ? Jan 7, 2019 21:07

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

my bony fealty posted:

finished Soldier in the Mist a few days ago

very confused

cool book, wtf happened at all

I'm rereading the Latro books now and ran across what's below on Reddit while refreshing myself on the discussion explaining at least vaguely what was happening. There's a longer and better written explanation the author of the post, Marc Aramini, put in one of his usual 15,000 word essays, but I've lost the file he uploaded it in. Unfortunately, he seems to only put them up when someone asks, which is a pity because he seems good at synthesising the symbolic and real-world-inspired aspects of Wolfe with the internal plot and narrative tricks, and has a decent knowledge of literary theory (the Wolfe discussion on his You Tube channel are worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UC8H8yTqvudLIUJphj5M6yvQ).

quote:

Latro embodies arete. When Aphrodite appears, Latro says that she is the spoken word and Kalleos is the written version of the same word, using a concept that is from Plato's Pheadrus: a spoken word exists in the moment and context, but a written one can be twisted and changed, even abused and turned to evil, making it an orphan. Latino's relationship to arete is similar, as the expression of a concept (my paper will be more specific.) Pasicrates and the Spartans have twisted the letter of Arete to their own vile ends, abusing and killing, but still holding themselves to manly excellence. When Pasicrates attempts to force Latro into order, it is a metaphysical moment: he tries to dictate what Arete is, but it escapes his grasp (quite literally). The hatred festers and continues to corrupt the glory of manly combat and war, creating a world where it only brings suffering and injustice. At the conclusion, several characters have a dream: Pasicrates, Latro, and Aglaus all share similar but slightly different versions, and afterwards Pasicrates receives his arm back from Latro. In it, Pasicrates punches Aglaus in the throat ... but Aglaus thinks that Latro has punched him in the throat, the only one of the three who feels that. This confused me for a long time, until I understood that Latro embodies arete - this is a metaphysical misuse of what could be a noble ideology and power. Pasicrates is reconciled and embraces Latro as a brother after this dream, and Latro's depression lifts, because the Spartan control and misuse of excellence will not last long. What is the purpose of war if it only brings death to the innocent? But if it brings peace, it serves a purpose. What would happen if war (or the War God) realized it only caused pain? Would it become suicidal? Unless it could justify its existence with the bringing of something better ...

# ? Jan 11, 2019 15:09

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

Alright, having just finished a reread of Soldier of Arete... Well, I didn't understand all of it. If anyone can add anything of use please chime in. What I could follow:

(1) Themistocles' reputation was ruined by the generosity of the Spartans to him, as the other Athenians assumed he'd been co-opted by them. This seems to have been something Hegesistratus wanted to happen.
(2) The Amazons winning the chariot race was some kind of settlement between Artemis/Hecate/The Dark Mother and Gaea/Hera/Demeter. It also led to a symbolic peace between Thebes and the Amazons, which had been at odds since the mythical Theseus abducted their queen.
(3) Latro embarrassing the games required an attempt be made to capture him; there were insufficient armed Spartans to effect this, but there were equipped Spartan slaves on-hand. This raised the helots' stock somewhat in Sparta, and helped to heal a social rift that meant the society was extremely ugly (see the Spartan manumission ceremony) and was reflected in the Dark Mother.
(4) Latro was on his way to Syracuse with his Phoenician buddies. These guys had also been the ones to seize Pausanius' loot from the war.
(5) Pindaros, along with Io and Polos, intends to visit Syracuse.
(6) Latro had a general intention of doing something with the helots and Spartans - whether exactly what happened is what he planned or not (I imagine it might be since there's a meeting between Artemis and Gaea we don't get properly recorded; it might be thought too uncertain a plan but for godly intervention). This plan is what broke him out of the depression he'd been in since the Spartans massacred the helots at the manumission ceremony.

I'm particularly hazy on Pausanias and the Phoenicians.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 09:04

MeatwadIsGod: Sep 30, 2004; Foretold by Gyromancy

I'm about five chapters into Shadow of the Torturer and really enjoying it so far. Severian is really interesting and I don't know what to make of nearly all the animals being - or being referred to as - long-extinct creatures from the Paleocene.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 23:03

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

The vocabulary is really great.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 23:10

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

The vocabulary is really great.

lol

# ? Feb 3, 2019 23:36

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO: Feb 28, 1985

# ? Feb 3, 2019 23:52

CountFosco: Jan 9, 2012; Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

The vocabulary is really great.

But how is the world building?

# ? Feb 9, 2019 03:25

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

CountFosco posted:

But how is the world building?

The world building is really great.

# ? Feb 9, 2019 06:36

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

CountFosco posted:

But how is the world building?

Arousing.

# ? Feb 9, 2019 07:10

less laughter: May 7, 2012; Accelerock & Roll

I'm currently reading this book though with a different cover and they definitely should've kept this cover instead. It fits the story much better than the uninspired current version (red with a tunnel).

# ? Feb 13, 2019 10:21

MeatwadIsGod: Sep 30, 2004; Foretold by Gyromancy

I finished Shadow of the Torturer recently and Wolfe's appendix which kinda confirmed some of my suspicions while reading it. I still feel like a ton of its deeper significance or what's "really" happening is lost on me, but I picked up on little things like the real subject of the restored portrait on my own and was like :aaa:

This is unlike anything I have ever read

# ? Feb 14, 2019 05:03

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

MeatwadIsGod posted:

This is unlike anything I have ever read

Maybe you should read more than. Beckett's Trilogy is the real deal.

# ? Feb 14, 2019 08:19

CountFosco: Jan 9, 2012; Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Maybe you should read more than. Beckett's Trilogy is the real deal.

We're all philistines and there's no amount of shaming you can do to make us stop being philistines. Because philistines are shameless.

# ? Feb 15, 2019 00:01

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

the beckett trilogy does rule though

# ? Feb 15, 2019 00:35

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaquaqua with white beard quaquaquaqua outside time without extension who from the heights of divine apathia divine athambia divineaphasia loves us dearly with some exceptions for reasons unknown but time will tell and suffers like the divine Miranda with those who for reasons unknown but time will tell are plunged in torment plunged in fire whose fire flames if that continues and who can doubt it will fire the firmament that is to say blast hell to heaven so blue still and calm so calm with a calm which even though intermittent is better than nothing but not so fast and considering what is more that as a result of the labours left unfinished crowned by the Acacacacademy of Anthropopopometry of Essy-in-Possy of Testew and Cunard it is established beyond all doubt all other doubt than that which clings to the labours of men that as a result of the labours unfinished of Testew and Cunard it is established as hereinafter but not so fast for reasons unknown that as a result of the public works of Puncher and Wattmann it is established beyond all doubt that in view of the labours of Fartov and Belcher left unfinished for reasons unknown of Testew and Cunard left unfinished it is established what many deny that man in Possy of Testew and Cunard that man in Essy that man in short that man in brief in spite of the strides of alimentation and defecation is seen to waste and pine waste and pine and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the strides of physical culture the practice of sports such as tennis football running cycling swimming flying floating riding gliding conating camogie skating tennis of all kinds dying flying sports of all sorts autumn summer winter winter tennis of all kinds hockey of all sorts penicilline and succedanea in a word I resume and concurrently simultaneously for reasons unknown to shrink and dwindle in spite of the tennis I resume flying gliding golf over nine and eighteen holes tennis of all sorts in a word for reasons unknown in Feckham Peckham Fulham Clapham namely concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown but time will tell to shrink and dwindle I resume Fulham Clapham in a word the dead loss per caput since the death of Bishop Berkeleybeing to the tune of one inch four ounce per caput approximately by and large more or less to the nearest decimal good measure round figures stark naked in the stockinged feet in Connemara in a word for reasons unknown no matter what matter the facts are there and considering what is more much more grave that in the light of the labours lost of Steinweg and Peterman it appears what is more much more grave that in the light the light the light of the labours lost of Steinweg and Peterman that in the plains in the mountains by the seas by the rivers running water running fire the air is the same and then the earth namely the air and then the earth in the great cold the great dark the air and the earth abode of stones in the great cold alas alas in the year of their Lord six hundred and something the air the earth the sea the earth abode of stones in the great deeps the great cold an sea on land and in the air I resume for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis the facts are there but time will tell I resume alas alas on on in short in fine on on abode of stones who can doubt it I resume but not so fast I resume the skull to shrink and waste and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis on on the beard the flames the tears the stones so blue so calm alas alas on on the skull the skull the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the labours abandoned left unfinished graver still abode of stones in a word I resume alas alas abandoned unfinished the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the skull alas the stones Cunard tennis... the stones... so calm... Cunard... unfinished...

# ? Feb 15, 2019 01:38

CountFosco: Jan 9, 2012; Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

A human heart posted:

the beckett trilogy does rule though

I skimmed through the wikipedia entry on it and I didn't see anything in there about elves though.

# ? Feb 15, 2019 02:49

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

MeatwadIsGod posted:

I finished Shadow of the Torturer recently and Wolfe's appendix which kinda confirmed some of my suspicions while reading it. I still feel like a ton of its deeper significance or what's "really" happening is lost on me, but I picked up on little things like the real subject of the restored portrait on my own and was like

This is unlike anything I have ever read

Glad you're enjoying it and getting a sense of discovery from piecing that stuff together - Wolfe deliberately designed his stories so that a lot will only slot together much later and particularly on rereads, but in his best works there's enough for an astute reader to puzzle out at least some of the mysteries on a first read (in this it should be noted that the Book of the New Sun was meant to be a single volume and only split up at the publisher's behest).

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Beckett's Trilogy is the real deal.

Yeah; obligatory Pale Fire recommendation as well as far as stories involving piecing together narratives...

# ? Feb 15, 2019 07:41

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

sebmojo posted:

Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaquaqua with white beard quaquaquaqua outside time without extension who from the heights of divine apathia divine athambia divineaphasia loves us dearly with some exceptions for reasons unknown but time will tell and suffers like the divine Miranda with those who for reasons unknown but time will tell are plunged in torment plunged in fire whose fire flames if that continues and who can doubt it will fire the firmament that is to say blast hell to heaven so blue still and calm so calm with a calm which even though intermittent is better than nothing but not so fast and considering what is more that as a result of the labours left unfinished crowned by the Acacacacademy of Anthropopopometry of Essy-in-Possy of Testew and Cunard it is established beyond all doubt all other doubt than that which clings to the labours of men that as a result of the labours unfinished of Testew and Cunard it is established as hereinafter but not so fast for reasons unknown that as a result of the public works of Puncher and Wattmann it is established beyond all doubt that in view of the labours of Fartov and Belcher left unfinished for reasons unknown of Testew and Cunard left unfinished it is established what many deny that man in Possy of Testew and Cunard that man in Essy that man in short that man in brief in spite of the strides of alimentation and defecation is seen to waste and pine waste and pine and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the strides of physical culture the practice of sports such as tennis football running cycling swimming flying floating riding gliding conating camogie skating tennis of all kinds dying flying sports of all sorts autumn summer winter winter tennis of all kinds hockey of all sorts penicilline and succedanea in a word I resume and concurrently simultaneously for reasons unknown to shrink and dwindle in spite of the tennis I resume flying gliding golf over nine and eighteen holes tennis of all sorts in a word for reasons unknown in Feckham Peckham Fulham Clapham namely concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown but time will tell to shrink and dwindle I resume Fulham Clapham in a word the dead loss per caput since the death of Bishop Berkeleybeing to the tune of one inch four ounce per caput approximately by and large more or less to the nearest decimal good measure round figures stark naked in the stockinged feet in Connemara in a word for reasons unknown no matter what matter the facts are there and considering what is more much more grave that in the light of the labours lost of Steinweg and Peterman it appears what is more much more grave that in the light the light the light of the labours lost of Steinweg and Peterman that in the plains in the mountains by the seas by the rivers running water running fire the air is the same and then the earth namely the air and then the earth in the great cold the great dark the air and the earth abode of stones in the great cold alas alas in the year of their Lord six hundred and something the air the earth the sea the earth abode of stones in the great deeps the great cold an sea on land and in the air I resume for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis the facts are there but time will tell I resume alas alas on on in short in fine on on abode of stones who can doubt it I resume but not so fast I resume the skull to shrink and waste and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis on on the beard the flames the tears the stones so blue so calm alas alas on on the skull the skull the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the labours abandoned left unfinished graver still abode of stones in a word I resume alas alas abandoned unfinished the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the skull alas the stones Cunard tennis... the stones... so calm... Cunard... unfinished...

hmm, indeed

# ? Feb 15, 2019 16:24

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

For those of you struggling with Wolfe, The Devil in a Forest is a more straight-forward introduction to him. It takes place in a medieval community and isn't too hard to follow, if you're paying attention. It's like his other works but kind of easier, in a nutshell.

# ? Feb 15, 2019 20:34

less laughter: May 7, 2012; Accelerock & Roll

In The Land Across one of the biggest giveaways so far that the narrator is lying (perhaps unwittingly, he could be brainwashed by the government or the insurgents) about being an American is that he unwittingly nods when he means no and shakes his head when he means yes. Sure he could know that that's custom in the country he is in, but nobody has told him it is and he knows nothing else about the customs of the country so I'm sure it's meant as a clue.

# ? Feb 16, 2019 19:31

CountFosco: Jan 9, 2012; Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

I'm pretty sure the narrator in the land across is a thorough scumbag, perhaps even more so than in the sorcerer's house.

# ? Feb 17, 2019 05:49

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 17, 2024 16:21

idiotsavant: Jun 4, 2000

"i'm a real lyin liar, and its april fools backwards day," said Svernerdnuts, who is a guy you definitely cant trust

"holy poo poo what an unrealiable narrrator," shouted Bloopy Friend-o, the rovot-mule who was definietly not a robot, "i wouldnt trust that guy at all!"

# ? Feb 18, 2019 05:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Gene Wolfe: these books are basically the Dark Souls of reading

«‹›43 »