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Look it’d be one thing if you had any substantial criticism beyond “it is a generic system and therefore flavorless gruel”. As is that’s basically your only point and it’s a bit like pointing out that Red Dead Redemption is set in the Old West, or King Kong is in black and white, in that two seconds of looking at the product itself will tell you that.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:27
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I ran Strike! at GenCon this past year and it was basically perfect because I needed a bunch of pregens for a weird custom setting that would be believable for classes that thematically existed in a lot of people's heads but didn't exist in any game yet, and I needed a balanced setting to throw three weird custom encounters at those players, and I knew that all the players wouldn't know how to play the game. So having the two D6 tables for hits and skills was simple, and reskinning the tactical classes to my weird needs was a snap, and the whole thing was a total breeze. I generally like any game that makes building encounters a priority. Didn't use the kits system though, never been a huge fan of it and feel like it kinda butts heads with the tactical part. One thing I did too as a houserule was give every player a skill just named after their (reskinned)class title. That way anything they could reasonably argue was their job was already a skill, which made skills pretty easy.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:27
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It isn't just Strike, Arivia is just constantly loving angry and antagonistic all the loving time. Like, lady, are you ok? Do you need someone to talk to? Have you considered anger management? Nothing in any elfgame merits the kind of rage you bring into these threads.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:28
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Kai Tave posted:No, you just show up in every other thread it gets mentioned, and you don't "point out that it's not appropriate," you say it's the suckiest suck that ever sucked and suck and now you're calling the people who like it "cultists." Frankly you sound unhinged and I have no earthly idea what your weird beef with this game and/or Jimbozig is but maybe you should try taking your own advice, shutting up, and going away. There’s no weird beef. It’s very simple: It’s bad dude. It’s really bad. It’s a cobbled-together mess of rules, it’s poorly written, it has no creativity to it, and it’s boring to play. Like at least RIFTS or Synnibarr or something is entertainingly bad (but in contrast Strike is actually if badly playable.) And it’s just like why settle for bad games? Why not play good ones? Why not demand better experiences for you and your group? Strike will give you nothing positive. I’m pointing out that people can do so much better. Unfortunately because it started as a goon project it has a popular cult of personality that brings it up at every turn. I’m the only dissenting voice, so I stand out even more.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:30
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Strike is good for dungeon crawling because it lets you set up and resolve tactical combats reasonably quickly, cares about maps and movement, and has rules for debilities that carry over from encounter to encounter despite the fact that hp and powers are assumed to refill each fight. It's also got a more in-depth system for running a whole quasi-XCOM campaign but I'm just talking about the base game here, from my personal experience in being able to break out the book (or my offhand recollection of the basic "graze on 3, hit on 4-5, crit on 6" combat rules) and some graph paper and go to town when I've got an audience and a spare hour or two. Strike is bad for, like, tracking how the members of a wizard covenant grow and change as the seasons pass.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:32
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Arivia posted:And it’s just like why settle for bad games? Why not play good ones? Why not demand better experiences for you and your group? this coming from a Pathfinder regular is extremely ironic
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Dec 23, 2018 07:36
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Arivia posted:Unfortunately because it started as a goon project it has a popular cult of personality that brings it up at every turn. I’m the only dissenting voice, so I stand out even more. We should probably let this argument die out soon, but I'm gonna say you stand out more because you're so clearly mad. I don't love Strike, don't have strong opinions on it, but even if I didn't like it, I wouldn't post in your style. (Plus, cult of personality? Goddamn if I was Jimbo I'd be flattered someone thought I had that much influence on random goons...)
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Dec 23, 2018 07:36
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Arivia posted:Unfortunately because it started as a goon project it has a popular cult of personality that brings it up at every turn. I’m the only dissenting voice, so I stand out even more. No, you stand out because you're a huge loving rear end in a top hat about it at every turn. For someone who keeps insisting they don't have some kind of axe to grind this sure does seem like a very specific grudge that keeps coming up every time someone names this one game you hate enough to have turned making GBS threads on it into some personal crusade. You can dislike something and not feel the overwhelming compulsion to run into the room screaming about it every time it gets mentioned.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:this coming from a Pathfinder regular is extremely ironic I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that thought.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:39
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Maxwell Lord posted:Look it’d be one thing if you had any substantial criticism beyond “it is a generic system and therefore flavorless gruel”. As is that’s basically your only point and it’s a bit like pointing out that Red Dead Redemption is set in the Old West, or King Kong is in black and white, in that two seconds of looking at the product itself will tell you that. No, no. Generic systems are fine. There’s a time and a place for them (as ironjef points out, rapid prototyping a game idea is a great use.) Here’s where Strike as a generic system falls down. It still can’t decide what generic system it wants to be. Basic gameplay components - conflict resolution, combat, character creation - have multiple conflicting systems in the core rules. Strike doesn’t tell you what it is or how to play it, it just throws up a couple chapters of half-digested ideas and then tells you to pick one while it gets that happy baby that just passed gas smile. It doesn’t help you. It’s not clear, or consistent, or well-designed. It just tells you to figure it out for yourself. And I wish Strike had enough style to at least commit to being black and white or Panavision or whatever. When you read through FATE you know people actually thought things through, that there’s creativity and passion behind it. Strike doesn’t have that. Whenever there’s a chance for the book to actually stand up for itself and tell you what to do with it, it opts out. “This could be a Bender joke ha ha” “this part is like Star Wars, cool” It’s loving TVTropes the RPG. I might not particularly like FATE but at least Evil Hat knows what they can do with their own generic system. And finally. Every part of Strike as an actual text is a mess. Jimbozig can’t write. It’s horribly organized. The layout is a mess. It needed more editing passes. Probably a publisher or someone to cut down on all the mutating bullshit and make it have one class section not three would have helped a lot. It’s such a painful read.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:43
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Please go easy on Arivia. If she doesn't ragepost about Strike literally every time it comes up, the faerie curse will make her eat a pile of loose beef.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:43
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:It isn't just Strike, Arivia is just constantly loving angry and antagonistic all the loving time. Like, lady, are you ok? Do you need someone to talk to? Have you considered anger management? Nothing in any elfgame merits the kind of rage you bring into these threads. Amazingly the way I post about elfgames online is not the same way I interact with people in real life. I’m a pretty chill person who’s actually working on standing up for herself more in real life. @gradenko: You’ll note I didn’t recommend Pathfinder, although I’m running a great hexcrawl in it myself. But I know all the right places to tweak and change and fix things. To me, 3e/PF is the old tool that the master gets exquisite results from. Yes, it’s old and half-broken and the new poo poo does everything easier. But to me, it’s the right thing to make magic with. That doesn’t mean it’s not a bad game of course. I make a point to only recommend it in very specific circumstances and I explain why. The same thing applies to Jimbozig and Strike and is actually why I come down on it as a recommendation so hard. I have no doubt that it works well for Jimbozig. I’m sure he runs a stellar game with it. That doesn’t make it a good recommendation for others who don’t live inside his head with his knowledge.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:51
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please do not use how you are online as a guideline for how standing up for yourself in real life works.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:55
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if you're willing to acknowledge that Pathfinder is a bad game, maybe don't use "don't play bad games" as a platform for your criticism of Strike, notwithstanding that both Ferrinus and jef have already given out narrowly-defined recommendations for when Strike is appropriate to use and why I mean, the first time Strike was even mentioned was grouped in with D&D 4e and Torchbearer, so it's pretty clear to me that at least three people outside of the author of the game have a grasp of what the game was designed for and does well, even if you disagree with them
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Dec 23, 2018 07:58
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Arivia, I agree with some of your points regarding Strike! but the way you come across is not "design critique" or "helpful advice" it's "bizarrely vitriolic." Like, I understand your goals but you are pretty avidly failing at them by being so acerbic.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:01
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Honestly it was really great for what I needed. I made these pregen sheets that basically contained every possible detail the players would need for a short game. We had a few copies of the game around in case anyone really wanted to dig in but time was a factor so I wanted to make it as inclusive as possible from the jump. This guy was built using the Rogue class that's sold separately. Player that got him loved him because of the mobility.  
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Dec 23, 2018 08:17
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Impermanent posted:please do not use how you are online as a guideline for how standing up for yourself in real life works. Of course not. Again, online is not remotely the same. @gradenko: Don’t recommend bad games, whatever you want to call it. My focus is that it’s irresponsible to recommend it for specific uses beyond “generic system” or “media knockoff clone.” That is my point. The rest of the thread ganging up on me is whatever. Jef had a good idea for any generic system. Strike was just the one he chose. Ferrinus did artwork for Strike and is biased in its favor. And the original recommendation is what I’ve been responding to all this time. Honestly I’m beginning to think that my difference from your opinions comes down to the fact that I have an English degree and training and experience in reading texts critically. It certainly doesn’t seem like many of you do, at least. And that’s okay! We all apply ourselves to different things in life. (Contrast to the definite STEMlords in the forum who can’t comprehend the existence of anything other than technical writing.) I place different focus and attention than many of you do, and examine the text differently. Issues that are apparent to me may not be so to you.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:18
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Arivia posted:Honestly I’m beginning to think that my difference from your opinions comes down to the fact that I have an English degree and training and experience in reading texts critically. It certainly doesn’t seem like many of you do, at least. And that’s okay! We all apply ourselves to different things in life. (Contrast to the definite STEMlords in the forum who can’t comprehend the existence of anything other than technical writing.) I place different focus and attention than many of you do, and examine the text differently. Issues that are apparent to me may not be so to you. I want to bottle this and drink it instead of water for the rest of my life
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Dec 23, 2018 08:30
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Arivia posted:Honestly I’m beginning to think that my difference from your opinions comes down to the fact that I have an English degree and training and experience in reading texts critically. It certainly doesn’t seem like many of you do, at least. And that’s okay! We all apply ourselves to different things in life. (Contrast to the definite STEMlords in the forum who can’t comprehend the existence of anything other than technical writing.) I place different focus and attention than many of you do, and examine the text differently. Issues that are apparent to me may not be so to you. Please tell us more about why your highly educated opinions are better than the played experiences of the rest of us dirty proles, o great one.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:32
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"Hm. Everyone is having a negative reaction to my statements, including several people who actually agree with me on some points. It must be because they're all stinky engineers who never learned how to read properly." Yep, really feeling that conciliatory tone.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:33
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Really, I don't know how a noble English major such as yourself can stand to share the same online space with filth like us. You should find some other place more worthy of your enlightenment, bodhisattva.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:36
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Today on theological conundrums, can an English major write a post so lovely that even they can't pretend it's actually good?
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Dec 23, 2018 08:38
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Got me there, of the two of us game reviewers in my dumb professional life, only the other guy has an English degree.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:38
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Arivia posted:Honestly I’m beginning to think that my difference from your opinions comes down to the fact that I have an English degree and training and experience in reading texts critically. It certainly doesn’t seem like many of you do, at least. And that’s okay! We all apply ourselves to different things in life. (Contrast to the definite STEMlords in the forum who can’t comprehend the existence of anything other than technical writing.) I place different focus and attention than many of you do, and examine the text differently. Issues that are apparent to me may not be so to you. Really putting that English degree to work in being the most condescending piece of poo poo you can here, I see. Funny how you instantly Kramered in to claim superiority over everyone else here because you can flex your bachelor's and know Strike is a Bad Game but you mysteriously failed to show up and defend Ed Greenwood the other day when that's your other bat signal.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:40
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Please tell us more about why your highly educated opinions are better than the played experiences of the rest of us dirty proles, o great one. I have actually played Strike. I gave it a fair shake. That’s why I’m so hard on it, because I’ve read it and played it and it was so disappointing. As for your actual point: Yes. I have more education and training in media criticism than you do, presumably. Critical literacy is really important, and I’m really glad that many people respond to it, and do think critically about the media they engage with. However, that does not devalue or decenter my degree; there is still greater knowledge and understanding beyond a base appreciation. Internet theory and criticism is good and fun, but it’s no substitution for actual critical disciplines.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:40
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Daeren posted:Really putting that English degree to work in being the most condescending piece of poo poo you can here, I see. Funny how you instantly Kramered in to claim superiority over everyone else here because you can flex your bachelor's and know Strike is a Bad Game but you mysteriously failed to show up and defend Ed Greenwood the other day when that's your other bat signal. I didn’t have anything meaningful to contribute to the discussion about Ed Greenwood, although I read it. It was a good collection of evidence that made me rethink my past defenses of the man.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:43
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Arivia posted:I have actually played Strike. I gave it a fair shake. That’s why I’m so hard on it, because I’ve read it and played it and it was so disappointing. A lot of people wouldn't keep doubling down but then again, it's clear your high degree of intellectual superiority has allowed you to analyze the discourse and determine that it is everyone else and not you who is coming across as a real rear end in a top hat
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Dec 23, 2018 08:45
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theironjef posted:Not that I do this especially often often: Cheers, I have a 15 hour drive coming up, so podcast time is go.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:47
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BinaryDoubts posted:A lot of people wouldn't keep doubling down but then again, it's clear your high degree of intellectual superiority has allowed you to analyze the discourse and determine that it is everyone else and not you who is coming across as a real rear end in a top hat Frankly it makes me question her ability to critically analyze text in the first place. Edit: that's not to say I'm not being an rear end in a top hat here because I totally am.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:48
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Arivia posted:I have actually played Strike. I gave it a fair shake. That’s why I’m so hard on it, because I’ve read it and played it and it was so disappointing. Hi I have an educational background in that too and yeah no I don't need any of it to be able to tell that even though you may have digested the work and created a body of criticism that led you to conclude that it is a badly designed game every single post you make about it is fueled by actual, personal hatred until you're called on it, at which point you immediately backpedal into "whoa now I only say it's bad when it comes up as an inappropriate suggestion" like you hadn't opened this conversation by calling Jimbozig a cult leader, amateur, ripoff, creator of a "lovely generic Soylent", and that the fact people suggest it for things is insulting. That's not media criticism, that's YouTube rant video criticism. That's Everything Wrong With [X] level media criticism.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:50
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BinaryDoubts posted:A lot of people wouldn't keep doubling down but then again, it's clear your high degree of intellectual superiority has allowed you to analyze the discourse and determine that it is everyone else and not you who is coming across as a real rear end in a top hat I’m not claiming intellectual superiority. This isn’t some IQ bullshit. I am claiming greater training, experience, and knowledge in how to perform media criticism. (And furthermore if someone with training in game studies shows up then I would concede the floor to them because they obviously have training in form-specific concepts that I do not.) And no. I know I’m coming across as an rear end in a top hat. I just don’t care. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 23, 2018 08:51
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Capfalcon posted:"Hm. Everyone is having a negative reaction to my statements, including several people who actually agree with me on some points. This. I'm not a huge fan of Strike!, but I can see the appeal as a light game that can be picked up easy and applied to lots of different genres. Saying it's just bad and people who don't like it are less/wrongly educated. What?  As for suggestions for systems, I love 13th age, it feels pretty balanced to me. I've run two campaigns that had both casters and martial characters that were well balanced enough, IMO. At the very least, more towards the 4e end of balancing (13th age is a bit of a combination of 3e and 4e designs, taking what I think are the best bits of each. Crunchy, but not overly complex.). Probably the expectation that characters retire at level 10 limits the power difference creping a lot. I also really like some of the additions like Icons and the escalation die which speeds up combat a bit as the combat goes on, which helps lessen slogging combat. Someone said something about 5e having problems with balance before. I've only played a little and listen to adventure zone (but no idea how much they homebrewed the rules). but I thought better fighter/wizard balance was a big selling point of that edition? That was one reason I was interested in it.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:57
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The “better balance” between Fighters and Wizards in 5E is that the preferred balance of fighters carrying the bags for the magic users who get to actively do things was restored.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:59
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Foolster41 posted:Probably the expectation that characters retire at level 10 limits the power difference creping a lot. I also really like some of the additions like Icons and the escalation die which speeds up combat a bit as the combat goes on, which helps lessen slogging combat. 13th Age does end at level 10, but thematically the power curve is also appropriately narrowed because the characters are already Very Capable Heroes even at level 1, and only become stronger from there, as opposed to other games which try (and generally fail?) to run the entire shitfarmer-to-demigod spectrum and have problems at both ends. Foolster41 posted:Someone said something about 5e having problems with balance before. I've only played a little and listen to adventure zone (but no idea how much they homebrewed the rules). but I thought better fighter/wizard balance was a big selling point of that edition? That was one reason I was interested in it. 5e Fighters have been greatly neutered from their 4e incarnation, while the status of full casters like Wizards as the dominant classes has been restored. Balance is "better" in the sense that Fighters are probably in a better place than they are in 3e, and specific spells and types of spells were changed such that it seems like Wizards were nerfed relative to 3e, and that makes people think that things are much closer, but it doesn't hold up under more stringent examination.
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Dec 23, 2018 09:21
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Arivia posted:I’m not claiming intellectual superiority. This isn’t some IQ bullshit. I am claiming greater training, experience, and knowledge in how to perform media criticism. (And furthermore if someone with training in game studies shows up then I would concede the floor to them because they obviously have training in form-specific concepts that I do not.) I do not believe that you have experience and knowledge in how to perform media criticism. It's possible that you have had training, but you either did not absorb it well or are not choosing to demonstrate its fruits here, because your actual criticisms are so devoid of substance or specificity and you've failed to answer any defense raised. All anyone can learn about Strike from reading your posts is that it has multiple optional systems for stuff.
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Dec 23, 2018 09:22
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Leperflesh posted:D&D is a place where magic is so commonplace and mundane that the vast majority of enchanted items are not even worthy of being named, every vaguely competent professional can possess several, they are routinely and casually exchanged for piles of gold, and yet society has never advanced beyond a pseudo-rennaisance/medieval semi-collapsed state in which laborers till the soil by hand, beggars starve in the streets, and the wealthy can purchase resurrection from the clergy without compromising the deterministic ethical superiority of half of those religions as defined by universal constants of empirically-provable moral absolutes on which the universe runs. With this plus murderhobo stuff now I'm wondering if it would be viable to put together a setting that's in the grip of a cosmic-level Great Depression, so the mundane, magical, and spiritual economies are all totally hosed and everybody knows it and nobody knows how to fix it, and murderhobos are the result of the same social pressures that caused actual hobos. Nuns with Guns posted:Also, Jessica Price has been tweeting more about harassment at past Paizocons, Bill Webb, and being fired from Paizo: With the related events, another useful point is that the only reason police weren't called on Bill Webb is because his victim specifically requested they not be... so that his young children, who were there with him, wouldn't get stranded as a result.
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Dec 23, 2018 09:55
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Roadie posted:With this plus murderhobo stuff now I'm wondering if it would be viable to put together a setting that's in the grip of a cosmic-level Great Depression, so the mundane, magical, and spiritual economies are all totally hosed and everybody knows it and nobody knows how to fix it, and murderhobos are the result of the same social pressures that caused actual hobos. With all the buried treasure, fallen empires and warring gods this is basically how you'd have to read any early edition of D&D. It's been mentioned before but Torchbearer literally casts you as hobos as well.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:07
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Was it ever decided if a D&D book counted as a technical manual or not? I remember people thinking this being a thing that also got into Arivia's craw.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:18
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Zurui posted:With all the buried treasure, fallen empires and warring gods this is basically how you'd have to read any early edition of D&D. IIRC, the default lore of 4e is basicaly loosely a post-fall-of-Rome situation where there's scattered points of civilization and tons of wasteland and ruins because the world's great empires warred themselves into ruin and are shadows of their former selves. My own D&D 4e setting is basically Fallout with more magic and Lovecraft in place of technology and radiation, it is pretty much absolutely ideal for running D&D as presented.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:34
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I played Strike in a thing which didn't work but that was because we were trying to represent another piece of media where fights are either trivial or are meaningful encounters between peers and the game degenerates strongly when everything keeps being a champion, and it didn't feel right that things were decided by tactical combat and not everyone's fighting spirit or belief in justice or whatever. On the other hand if you're doing literally any other thing where you want tactical combat it's almost certainly really good because the main problem was just that we had to ignore so much of it.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:46
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