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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:what country are you from, that you do not have an example in your home politics of how the right wing views having a minority threat to fearmonger about as a state of affairs to be maintained- and if possible, exacerbated- by whatever means necessary? Siege Mentality is profitable in the short run but historically doesn't work out well in the long run.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:48
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VideoGameVet posted:Siege Mentality is profitable in the short run but historically doesn't work out well in the long run. In the long run all nations fall.
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Dec 18, 2018 18:55
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In the long-run, Israel will be a sun-scorched hellhole roamed only by the mutant roaches that feed on the giant bacteria coming out of the polluted aquifers, so why should Bibi care?
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Dec 18, 2018 19:03
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VideoGameVet posted:Siege Mentality is profitable in the short run but historically doesn't work out well in the long run. Even if it were bad for him in the long run (which I don't even remotely buy; the guy is rich and old, he'll be fine), having an IQ in no way implies making good decisions.
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Dec 18, 2018 19:36
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VideoGameVet posted:Siege Mentality is profitable in the short run but historically doesn't work out well in the long run. in the long run, i'm retired to Billionaire Island where I can go windsurfing with Barack Obama and Alan Dershowitz. what do I care if the people who trusted me get hosed?
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Dec 18, 2018 20:36
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VideoGameVet posted:Siege Mentality is profitable This is where right wing politicians (and their supporters) the world over stop reading and start trying to enact their reprehensible ideas.
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Dec 19, 2018 13:29
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Uh, in the very sentence he's quoting? Do you just not remember anything you've ever posted? It would explain a lot. Maybe I should have said "only if", but your interpretation of that post doesn't make any sense, that's the complete opposite of what I was saying. Kim Jong Il posted:Going after civilians is wrong, going after military targets can be justified if you do a cost benefit analysis on the civilian casualties, and think about the long term escalatory effects of retaliation. My point was that Israel should not attack civilians, and that presence of civilians should restrict attacks on military targets. And that speaks to the broader frustration in my follow up point and in your false claim - I have repeatedly, overwhelmingly expressed the exact opposite opinion of your mischaracterization. I'm against collective punishment in every context. It is unconscionable for an innocent to even merely be inconvenienced due to the actions of another guilty party. Mr.Unique-Name posted:Please answer my question about why it's necessary for them to send troops into Gaza and bomb Hamas leaders in order to deal with tunnels entering Israeli territory. Why can't they destroy the parts of the tunnels in Israeli territory? I didn't say it was necessary to send troops into Gaza and bomb Hamas leaders. I oppose the former, and only support attacks on Hamas if they can be done in ways that avoid civilian casualties and long term conflict escalation. Israel was on edge in this specific case because of Shalit. You jumped into an argument about what constitutes a legitimate pretext for violence. I was not arguing that tunnels were a valid pretext, but rather using the Israeli espionage example to argue against the idea that anything not explicitly banned by the ceasefire cannot be a provocation. (E.g., both the tunnels and the espionage are obvious provocations, or at minimum in the same class of behavior.)
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Dec 23, 2018 04:04
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Ultramega posted:Everybody who wants a two-state solution should probably check out what happened to Yugoslavia in the 90s. How is your takeaway that the cause of the violence there was the cessation of being arbitrarily forced together? One state in I/P is rarely fleshed out in concrete proposals, both in terms of how it would get past the Knesset if they're supposedly unwilling to withdraw settlements, and how it would look in practice. Zionists largely aren't bad faith actors like Netanyahu. They legitimately see this as a roadmap to ethnic cleansing and genocide - look at AA's reaction to the "river to the sea" quote, which was historically used by ethnic cleansing advocates on both sides. You either have to actually convince Israelis, or we're back where we started, where the only political solution to the status quo is negotiation with Israel as the stronger party, and we circle back to the two state solution. Just as compulsion and collective punishment have proven worthless for Israel trying to pressure Palestinians, similarly the only way out of this is diplomacy. Israel has a history of withdrawing from Sinai, from Lebanon, from Gaza, there's at least precedent for that. Olmert was frustratingly close to a deal with Abbas before running out of time - all recent evidence is that non-Likud governments will negotiate in good faith for the two state solution, and Netanyahu's coalitions keep barely winning elections. Furthermore, BDS (the formal movement that focuses on 1948, not settlement boycotts) and talk of one state is a gigantic distraction from the urgent work of ending the occupation and the Gaza blockade. More criticism does not mean more pressure on Israel in practice; it becomes easier to drown out and dismiss. I'm the most angry at Netanyahu and Likud for the past decade, but BDS has made the situation demonstrably worse in every way. And it would be a loving non-entity if Likud hadn't been idiots, and I still think it would fade into oblivion quickly if any real progress were made. End the occupation, stop punishing Gazan civilians for Hamas's actions, and 99% of this disappears. quote:Also LOL at people who literally think catchy slogans like "from the river to the sea" are dog whistles. It's a phrase that has a long history of being used by Hamas and revisionist Zionists, largely by them in context of calls for ethnic cleansing. It's probably a bad idea to try to repurpose that, regardless of intention, because it's triggering as gently caress. Hill isn't some random DSA conference goer, he likely knows the historical usage. Furthermore, earlier in the speech, he said this, which pretty much guaranteed that his words would be interpreted the way that they were. quote:We must prioritize peace. But we must not romanticize or fetishize it. We must advocate and promote nonviolence at every opportunity, but we cannot endorse a narrow politics of respectability that shames Palestinians for resisting, for refusing to do nothing in the face of state violence and ethnic cleansing He also is not being given the benefit of the doubt because of past praise of and apology for Louis Farrakhan. Whereas, people who are just saying end the occupation, stop bombing Gaza, those people aren't being shouted down and dragged by most Zionists, because most Zionists agree with those views. (Meaning that "Zionist" means "doesn't think the state of Israel should be immediately destroyed", rather than "supports Likud, Netanyahu, or any specific policy goals.")
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Dec 23, 2018 04:36
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Kim Jong Il posted:Maybe I should have said "only if", but your interpretation of that post doesn't make any sense, that's the complete opposite of what I was saying. I mean, I’m not sure how you’re expecting us to read “civilian casualties can be justified” if the conclusion that civilian casualties can be justified is somehow a mortifying misrepresentation of your views.
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Dec 23, 2018 14:29
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It's nearly christmas, go spend time with people who may remotely give a gently caress about what you have to say about stuff.
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Dec 23, 2018 16:10
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Ultramega posted:It's nearly christmas, go spend time with people who may remotely give a gently caress about what you have to say about stuff. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that a guy obsessively defending his views on the I/P conflict in detail is probably not celebrating christmas.
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Dec 23, 2018 17:00
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The jewish parts of Israel are just about the one place in the globe where christmas is completely ignored, this thread is a safe space.
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Dec 23, 2018 17:42
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that a guy obsessively defending his views on the I/P conflict in detail is probably not celebrating christmas. Who cares about anyone's background? Zulily Zoetrope posted:I mean, I’m not sure how you’re expecting us to read “civilian casualties can be justified” if the conclusion that civilian casualties can be justified is somehow a mortifying misrepresentation of your views. I'm not? That reading doesn't make sense at all. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 01:13
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that a guy obsessively defending his views on the I/P conflict in detail is probably not celebrating christmas. Uh, it's not like being extremely defensive of Israel is even remotely uncommon with Christians.
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Dec 24, 2018 01:34
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It's finally happened! Early elections this April!
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Dec 24, 2018 15:34
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drat, I'm just gonna miss it. Any chance Israel has implemented some voting in absentia system yet?
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Dec 24, 2018 15:36
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We're going to elections! It's a true christmas miracle! Except it's been clear this would happens sometime soon ever since Lieberman quit, and right-wing parties are looking to increase their mandates at the expense of each other. This is just shuffling chairs around in the same coalition. I really hope I am wrong and this is the end of Bibi, though.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:36
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Miftan posted:drat, I'm just gonna miss it. Any chance Israel has implemented some voting in absentia system yet? Not as far as I know, alas. AFancyQuestionMark posted:We're going to elections! It's a true christmas miracle! Yeah, but they kept waffling and I really need to know the date so I can make travel plans, because pointless or not, I'm voting.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:43
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Not as far as I know, alas. Meretz or UAL?
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Dec 24, 2018 15:44
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Meretz or UAL? Are UAL running separately than the Joint List this time?
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Dec 24, 2018 15:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Are UAL running separately than the Joint List this time? Oops, mixed up the acronyms there. I meant Joint List. Haven't seen any indication that they would ran apart , and it would be silly to do so, what with the higher threshold and all.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:51
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Oops, mixed up the acronyms there. I meant Joint List. Haven't seen any indication that they would ran apart , and it would be silly to do so, what with the higher threshold and all. Weren't they planning on lowering the threshold again?
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Dec 24, 2018 15:52
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Weren't they planning on lowering the threshold again? If so, it hasn't happened - it's still at 3.25%.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:54
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It's pretty funny that these early elections will take place exactly four years and one month after the previous elections, but hey I mean, let's all get excited why not.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:55
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Weren't they "supposed" to hold them in November of next year? We're getting them more than half a year early.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:58
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It's pretty funny that these early elections will take place exactly four years and one month after the previous elections, but hey I mean, let's all get excited why not. You better believe it! 
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Dec 24, 2018 15:58
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https://twitter.com/LalehKhalili/status/1076213584345161730
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Dec 24, 2018 16:00
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gently caress Israel.
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Dec 24, 2018 17:26
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Between this and the contaminated water, it doesn't seem like an exaggeration to say that they want the Palestinians to be wiped out with disease. In years past there were times where I felt it was an overstatement to describe Israel's intentions as genocidal. But this really makes it plain.
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Dec 24, 2018 17:37
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What're the 10 allowed countries, anyways? The article makes it sound like some or all of them aren't WHO-certified. Also, has Israel even tried to put up a fig leaf of justification for this, or is it literally just "because this law we wrote says we can"
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Dec 24, 2018 17:39
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Has there been any response from Israel as to why they are doing this? "We don't feel the vaccines are safe" "We think they are smuggling something in" Etc, etc.
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Dec 24, 2018 18:50
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pro starcraft loser posted:Has there been any response from Israel as to why they are doing this? The news is a little out of date - Israel backed down yesterday after the PA and WHO raised hell.
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Dec 24, 2018 20:23
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The Lord of Hats posted:Also, has Israel even tried to put up a fig leaf of justification for this, or is it literally just "because this law we wrote says we can" LOL if you think Israel needs fig leaves. They've been increasingly blatant and have only received increased support as a result.
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Dec 24, 2018 21:14
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I would love to see a source for this that isn't the Palestinian Health Ministry. There's absolutely nothing in the Israeli press, and googling is not showing references to any WHO or UNICEF press release about it, which you would think would be there if the Israeli government were being pressured to do anything. Just claims that this happened and that it was reversed within a few days.
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Dec 24, 2018 21:41
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Maybe it's a behind the scenes thing where the government told the PA officials it was planning to do this, but then changed its mind? Possibly not even reaching the implementation or official policy stage?
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Dec 24, 2018 21:52
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quote:While Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition had been on the brink of collapse since his defense minister quit last month, it was a dispute over legislation aimed at drafting ultra-Orthodox Jews into the military that ultimately brought down the government.
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Dec 25, 2018 04:14
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I know we don't need much to let off some steam but if you guys read the vaccine story you'll actually see that the supply of vaccines has never actually stopped or run out and even the Palestinian MOH stated that the alleged Israeli decision (which since was already supposedly overturned) would have only had an impact in a few months from now. If I had to guess this has more to do with some commercial dispute, possibly Israel trying to force Palestinians to purchase certain brands of vaccines instead of others. At the end of the day no vaccines were prevented from children in the west bank and it would seem as though vaccine coverage in the WB is better than it is in 48' Israel (Israeli anti vexxers have caused a measles epidemic in certain parts of the country).
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Dec 25, 2018 08:22
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Saladin Rising posted:Huh, I'd heard that there's growing resentment in Israel over the various exemptions the ultra-Orthodox get; is there a serious chance that the next government will actually pass a law that requires ultra-Orthodox to serve in the military? Nope. There's not a majority for it, and iirc even Lapid backed off when he had the chance to implement something like it.
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Dec 25, 2018 10:17
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I know we don't need much to let off some steam but if you guys read the vaccine story you'll actually see that the supply of vaccines has never actually stopped or run out and even the Palestinian MOH stated that the alleged Israeli decision (which since was already supposedly overturned) would have only had an impact in a few months from now. none of this is very convincing I'm absolutely prepared to believe that whatever sketchy source the story came from is bullshit and the entire thing is completely unfounded, but if it is true the fact it may have been "part of some commercial dispute" and the policy being stopped before it could do any actual harm because the WHO was like "thats loving mental" are not good excuses and doesn't make trying to deny vaccines to people living under your military occupation OK
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Dec 25, 2018 16:34
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XMNN posted:none of this is very convincing I cannot find anything about this story other than the fact that "Israel made a decision a few weeks ago" in one article from less then a week ago and then "Israel unmade its decision, crisis averted"; there is nothing in the hebrew media on this, the reason I suspect "a commercial dispute" relates to the fact that an Israeli manufacturer patented a Hep B vaccine several years ago, but this is again, just a guess. If anyone finds more info, kindly do share, maybe Arab speakers will have better luck.
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Dec 25, 2018 16:59
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