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Pick posted:Shut up Bravest, god drat you're dumb as gently caress
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Dec 23, 2018 02:18
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mmmmalo posted:That's probably part of it, but I also think accounting for apparent contradictions is just part of the process of tying stuff together? Some of the confusion is just mine, I mean Well we can deeper into that aforementioned web and ask what exactly makes Spider-People so important. The movie introduces a universe of infinite possibilities, but the only things to pop out of other dimensions are more Spider-Men. So they're some kind of inter-dimensional constant, but why? It doesn't seem like there's anything particularly important about arachnid-themed vigilantes from New York. We have that image of a cosmic web connecting different worlds, so are Spider-People some kind of universal safety mechanism? But they don't actually have anything to do with interdimensional travel, they just end up stumbling onto it because one dimension develops the technology for crossing dimensions. And then this is supposed to connect to different dimensions representing different genres. There's a Film Noir dimension, an Anime dimension, a Looney Tunes dimension... but then they also represent just alternate continuities where Peter Parker is totally cool or he's a total loser, or his ex-girlfriend is the Spider-Person, or it's the future, or it's 1967. Is Gwen-Stacy-Being-Alive its own genre? What events led to the Noir universe diverging from the Loser Spider-Man universe? Is Noir's Doctor Octopus still a South African Nazi midget? How do other superheroes figure into this? Are DC comics canon in this? Or other fictional universes? Does it all take place in the mind of Tommy Westphall? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 02:36
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I dunno. Go to a comic book store and quote that post verbatim to the clerk and see what he says to you. E: seriously have you listened to the loving Christmas album yet. Stop dodging the question.
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Dec 23, 2018 02:43
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Spidey's head got shoved into a dimensional rift and that's what pulled a bunch of Spiders to his universe. But you already know that. I just like thinking about this movie.
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Dec 23, 2018 02:46
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nine-gear crow posted:I dunno. Go to a comic book store and quote that post verbatim to the clerk and see what he says to you. Those don't exist in my dimension, which is themed after the Carry On movies. smidgeonnn posted:Spidey's head got shoved into a dimensional rift and that's what pulled a bunch of Spiders to his universe. Yes. No one was asking why they were summoned. The question is what makes Spider-People a universal constant. Is the Spider-Man franchise some kind of cosmic predator lurking on the unimaginably vast spider-web the movie shows, like an over-the-top metaphor for capitalism? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 02:48
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mmmmalo posted:On the subject of connecting the mundane stuff to the rest: One thing that struck me about the movie was that while I expected Miles's performance as Spiderman to be a mirror of his school problems, the situations don't actually seem to be in agreement? The "all wrong answers means you knew all the answers" scene with his teacher shows that Miles is sabotaging himself because he wants out, while his experience as Spiderman comes off as more mundane learning pains. You might be able to reconcile these by saying that Miles is (subconsciously I guess?) sabotaging himself as Spiderman like he does at school, implying that there's something about the possibility of success as Spiderman that terrifies him? Whatever that something might be. I take the failing/unfailing scene as short version his own 'Wrestling with Macho Man' moment. He inherently misunderstands his position and situation in the world, and tries to uses his ability to purely profit himself. There isn't really a scene where Miles is conflicted about being Spider-Man, or where is powers causes him honest-to-god trouble. He's always confident in his abilities and role as Spider-Man. It's his familial connections, his anchors to both the real world and his ability to affect people is where his issues are. It's the inverse of the traditional Spider-Man conflict, where he would rather throw away the book bag and the uniform in a trash can and be 'Miles Morales No More'. It's only in the end where he confronts his symbolic anchor, his Dad, and both acknowledge and affirm his existence and connection that his conflict is resolved.
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Dec 23, 2018 03:17
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SomeJazzyRat posted:'Wrestling with Macho Man' moment What's this mean? I was never big on wrestling
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Dec 23, 2018 03:38
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mmmmalo posted:What's this mean? I was never big on wrestling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0oiKjLzTc
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Dec 23, 2018 04:01
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Saw it with my whole family, it's surprisingly good, and it looks amazing. We all got into it , my ten year old nephew got so into it I think he was crying at one point, but I missed a bit because my five year old got scared. I think they really screwed up advertising this. I hadn't heard of it , and I went in expecting it to be something I'd have to sit through.
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Dec 23, 2018 04:08
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The Christmas Album is great but it really should have had Hailee Steinfeld singing God Rest Ye Merry Gentle-Gwen
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Dec 23, 2018 05:33
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Perhaps more than ever before, BoTL.....this ain't it, chief
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Dec 23, 2018 05:35
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Thanks! SomeJazzyRat posted:I take the failing/unfailing scene as short version his own 'Wrestling with Macho Man' moment. He inherently misunderstands his position and situation in the world, and tries to uses his ability to purely profit himself. I see what you mean now; Miles using his smarts to get out of private school is a misusing-his-powers scene, like Toby Macguire looking for quick cash. I'm not sure what you mean by Miles misunderstanding his position? He seems to understand well enough that he's 'moving up' in some way, and that he has the potential to excel there, but he doesn't want to. I don't think he was confident in his abilities as Spiderman? Even if it gets expressed as his inability to fit in with the other Spiders, the learning curve for using his powers was a big part of the movie. You're right about the dad being pivotal though, and there's definitely some correlation between the speech the dad gives through the door and Miles finally taking the "leap of faith" that Peter B spoke of, which lets him come into his abilities. As though the real leap is trusting his dad...? Or else trusting that his dad has already acknowledged him, and that he's not chasing after anyone's expectations? Both of those are wild guesses; I don't remember the dad's speech at all I also think having the embarrassing i-love-you-dad scene right before Miles enters the school kind of supports your point that his problems there (as with spiderstuff) are extensions of the problem of how he regards his father's love; it's like the entire act of being in the school is a reiteration of that basic embarrassment. BravestOfTheLamps posted:Just consider that he gets his powers from being bitten by an evil corporation and then puts on a store-bought Halloween costume before he gets an unique superhero suit. He's progresses from an individual to a consumer and ultimately into a product. I think they tried to circumvent this by having Miles spray-paint a red spidersuit black instead of using the black suit that was already there? As a way to show him making the role his own, or something... doesn't really contradict your point, but within a focus on 'expectations' it seems like another gesture towards the stuff above. Like the mod-suit becomes a gesture towards not resenting that his personal(ized) success aligns with his dad's/the audience's expectations...? mmmmalo fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 07:03
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Yes. No one was asking why they were summoned. The question is what makes Spider-People a universal constant. You're not going down deep enough into the multi-verse rabbit hole: everybody is a universal constant and your observation is what determines who you perceive as a constant. That's all (*). (*) very literally EDIT to pull my head out of my rear end and contribute that this is my second favourite Spider-Man movie -- I liked the storyline of Homecoming a bit more, but the pure cinema of Spider-Verse was a lot of fun. InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 07:04
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mmmmalo posted:I think they tried to circumvent this by having Miles spray-paint a red spidersuit black instead of using the black suit that was already there? As a way to show him making the role his own, or something... doesn't really contradict your point, but within a focus on 'expectations' it seems like another gesture towards the stuff above. Like the mod-suit becomes a gesture towards not resenting that his personal(ized) success aligns with his dad's/the audience's expectations...? Might be less about a product more about a legacy; that Miles is acknowledging he's following in another's footsteps, and goes from using a cheap imitation that was all he could get to getting the real thing and putting his own twist on it. Also I liked the visualisation of the multiverse as a spider-web.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:24
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InfiniteZero posted:You're not going down deep enough into the multi-verse rabbit hole: everybody is a universal constant and your observation is what determines who you perceive as a constant. That's all (*). Whose perception causes a Film Noir parody version of Spider-Man to show up? Ghost Leviathan posted:Might be less about a product more about a legacy; that Miles is acknowledging he's following in another's footsteps, and goes from using a cheap imitation that was all he could get to getting the real thing and putting his own twist on it. Here you have to actually ask questions like what legacy he's taking up. Is there that a great demand for people to... stop CERN?
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Dec 23, 2018 10:43
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nine-gear crow posted:
This is all I ask of you before I put you on ignore, Bravest.
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Dec 23, 2018 16:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Is there that a great demand for people to... stop CERN? You seem overly pleased with this absolutely ridiculous take.
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Dec 23, 2018 16:36
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The plot draws inspiration from how people expected CERN to destroy the world ten years ago. Some guy tried to block the activation of the Large Hadron Collider because it might have unleashed dragons that would eat mankind, and CERN was going ahead with the project regardless of consequences. Kingpin is the villain because his destructive obsession causes him to go ahead with the project regardless of consequences. In the comic series where Miles Morales comes from, Kingpin isn't evil because he Feels Really Strongly About Something. He's evil because he's a crime lord. The change removes the social context and relevance of the character (meager as they are) in favour of the "apolitical" threat of People Who Feel Really Strongly About Something ("It's not always about the money, Spider-Man").
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Dec 23, 2018 17:24
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The plot draws inspiration from how people expected CERN to destroy the world ten years ago. Some guy tried to block the activation of the Large Hadron Collider because it might have unleashed dragons that would eat mankind, and CERN was going ahead with the project regardless of consequences. How do you account for Kingpin being shown as really evil before encountering the loss that fuels him in this film?
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Dec 23, 2018 18:27
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Am I the only turbonerd that saw blonde spider Man and immediately gasped "Ben Reilly?" The only real plot holes I could take from this are the aforementioned high school age gwen infiltrating a prestigious charter middle and Jefferson Davis apparently being the only cop in NY to the point where he's not only police security at the Kingpins Gala but also responding to emergency calls in Queens I would recommend that absolutely no one reads the comic Spider Verse event(s), but if they're looking to mine characters from that for sequels Spider-Punk is an absolute gimme, not only because he speaks so strongly to modern us politics and matches the film's aesthetics but that he's his universe's version of The Prowler/Uncle Aaron which would introduce some interesting character dynamic with Miles tin can made man fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 18:56
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tin can made man posted:Am I the only turbonerd that saw blonde spider Man and immediately gasped "Ben Reilly?" Look, he's the best drat street cop in Brooklyn and Captain Holt believes in him. He wasn't security at the gala, he was out on the street and saw weirdness going on with the building, so went to investigate.
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Dec 23, 2018 19:01
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tin can made man posted:Jefferson Davis apparently being the only cop in NY to the point where he's not only police security at the Kingpins Gala but also responding to emergency calls in Queens He's not police security at the gala, there's a scene of him assisting someone outside the building and then heading inside to investigate the explosion
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Dec 23, 2018 19:02
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hosed up that they named the dad after the Confederate president for the sake of a subtle Miles Davis homage.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 19:03
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Necrothatcher posted:He's not police security at the gala, there's a scene of him assisting someone outside the building and then heading inside to investigate the explosion The_Doctor posted:Look, he's the best drat street cop in Brooklyn and Captain Holt believes in him. So does the man work in Brooklyn, Queens, or Manhattan???? I sure hope somebody got fired for that blunder The alternate semi explanation is that Fisk HQ is in Brooklyn which seems less believable than a tri-borough beat cop but then again they had that bit about gentrification at the beginning so maybe
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Dec 23, 2018 19:12
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tin can made man posted:Am I the only turbonerd that saw blonde spider Man and immediately gasped "Ben Reilly?" Also, I'd kind of like to see the Renew Your Vows Spider-Family, since that would allow a version of MJ to be actively participating in the story (and it'd be interesting to see Peter B's reaction to that, as well as to his alternate-dimension daughter (Spider-Girl would be good for a similar reason). They could even have Chris Pine back to play RYV Spidey. Or one of the previous Spidey VAs from one of the many prior adaptations - while Tobey would have probably overshadowed the cast, hence why they left him out in this one (not to mention he's not really all that great at VA work, from what I saw of him in the Spider-Man games) - there's a lot of talented actors who could reprise the role. You could even get the appropriate MJ actress to voice Spinneret and maybe drop hints that it's the future of the 90s cartoon or Spectacular. The_Doctor posted:Look, he's the best drat street cop in Brooklyn and
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Dec 23, 2018 19:25
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Yvonmukluk posted:Most importantly, however, Spider-Punk is at least partially created by a goon. I actually like to think that after deciding to go back to MJ, Peter B's dimension becomes the Renew Your Vows dimension. Viridiant fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 19:35
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tin can made man posted:I would recommend that absolutely no one reads the comic Spider Verse event(s), On the contrary, I really enjoyed the comic event. I thought it was generally well received? It was dumb, but it was big dumb fun.
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Dec 23, 2018 19:37
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ghostwritingduck posted:How do you account for Kingpin being shown as really evil before encountering the loss that fuels him in this film? The movie is primarily about the non-threat of the Large Hadron Collider. Asnorban posted:On the contrary, I really enjoyed the comic event. I thought it was generally well received? All comic events are bad, from Retcon on Infinite Earths to Spider-Arse.
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Dec 23, 2018 19:39
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Looking up older Spider-Man actors, the 80s cartoon voice actor Ted Schwartz died a few years ago. Dan Gilvezan, the voice actor from Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends is still around, as is but Nicholas Hammond. Have they never asked them for a cameo or maybe neither wanted to do one? Gotta take your shoes off if you wanna crawl up walls. That's just science!
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Dec 23, 2018 19:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie is primarily about the non-threat of the Large Hadron Collider. None of this looks like a review on the album.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie is primarily about the non-threat of the Large Hadron Collider. This is why no one likes film studies majors.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:13
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tin can made man posted:Am I the only turbonerd that saw blonde spider Man and immediately gasped "Ben Reilly?" Yeah me too. The less clones the better though 
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Dec 23, 2018 20:24
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1stGear posted:This is why no one likes film studies majors. ....Because they describe movies?
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Dec 23, 2018 20:26
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie is primarily about the non-threat of the Large Hadron Collider. I'm with SomeJazzyRat in thinking that a good way to approach the inexplicable elements like the collider is as a metaphor for the mundane. The collider slams things into each other, and Miles's major moments tend to be sealed by contact with another person. His uncle introducing "Hey" with the hand on the shoulder, Miles attempting to repeat "Hey" and getting his hand stuck in Gwen's hair, Miles mastering "Hey" before he punches out Kingpin. Miles shaking hands with Gwen, Miles hugging his dad. Kingpin's whole purpose with the collider is to bring his family back together. The collider draws from anxieties about LHC making mini-blackholes for some of its impact, but within the story I think it's more of a reflection of the importance/dread that the movie assigns to connecting/being in contact with others?
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Dec 23, 2018 20:27
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mmmmalo posted:I'm with SomeJazzyRat in thinking that a good way to approach the inexplicable elements like the collider is as a metaphor for the mundane. The collider slams things into each other, and Miles's major moments tend to be sealed by contact with another person. His uncle introducing "Hey" with the hand on the shoulder, Miles attempting to repeat "Hey" and getting his hand stuck in Gwen's hair, Miles mastering "Hey" before he punches out Kingpin. Miles shaking hands with Gwen, Miles hugging his dad. Kingpin's whole purpose with the collider is to bring his family back together. The problem with that is that you end up with 90 million dollars spent on declaring that family is important or something.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:33
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Or you, you know, have 90 million dollars spent on an entertaining, stylish, and refreshingly distinct product. That seems kind of important too.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:39
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And family IS important 
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Dec 23, 2018 20:41
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Yeah, how dare they make a movie about a really common and relatable theme, instead of making a movie about the Large Hadron Collider is evil or whatever the gently caress you're on about.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The problem with that is that you end up with 90 million dollars spent on declaring that family is important or something. More or less, but it's not like the family motifs are like, exhaustive. Even if the movie's kind of rooted in Mile's interpersonal anxiety, those motifs could still be connected to other stuff. Like in Armageddon, the meteor was simultaneously a metaphor for Bruce Willis's anger toward his daughter's boyfriend and the threat the oil industry posed to the earth. Not saying the collider's being deployed in the same way but like, I wouldn't rule it out even if the way the movie talks about family is more apparent to me. Edit: figured out italics mmmmalo fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 20:51
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| # ? May 24, 2024 18:28 |
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As I watched Miles triumphantly jump off the edge of the building in the Spider-Man suit he had made his own, with the tones of "What's Up, Danger" booming behind him, I sat in my chair in the theater and thought, "This movie is about being scared of the Large Hadron Collider."
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Dec 23, 2018 20:52
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