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SeanBeansShako posted:Aren't there terrible people more or less plundering 20th century war graves for scrap metal right now too? I gotta make a living somehow!
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Dec 23, 2018 19:50
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The US overseas war graves all seem to stick to the indefinite burial (unless family requests reinterment) tradition we have back home. People would get upset if their dead uncles were getting dug up. I've got several relatives who died fighting in WWII who were eventually brought back after the war to be buried in family plots or in stateside military cemetery plots, some of them weren't brought back until the 60s. Others are still in France because the relevant people prefer that way.
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Dec 23, 2018 19:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:Aren't there terrible people more or less plundering 20th century war graves for scrap metal right now too? That's illegal though. They however very officially put a bunch of Hegel's dudes' skeletons into a fuckin museum as a big pile 
aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 20:04
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SeanBeansShako posted:Aren't there terrible people more or less plundering 20th century war graves for scrap metal right now too? China, yes. They're also blowing up coral reefs, eradicating fish populations, and generally everything else their ships can reach for a quick buck while Chinese warships keep anyone else's ships from interfering, even if they're wreaking havoc in someone else's coastal waters.
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Dec 23, 2018 20:19
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Cythereal posted:China, yes. They're also blowing up coral reefs, eradicating fish populations, and generally everything else their ships can reach for a quick buck while Chinese warships keep anyone else's ships from interfering, even if they're wreaking havoc in someone else's coastal waters. Why do you think the Chinese navy is guarding illegal salvage operations? Shimrra Jamaane posted:I gotta make a living somehow! I'd hazard that a scrap metal firm that can afford to ship a bunch of divers with explosives and other heavy equipment out to sea for a couple of weeks hasn't got capital issues. I don't see why anybody expects those war graves to stay respected in perpetuity though. The Brits are operations entirely off of goodwill from the Malaysian and Indonesian governments to fend off salvagers here.
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Dec 23, 2018 21:17
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aphid_licker posted:That's illegal though. They however very officially put a bunch of Hegel's dudes' skeletons into a fuckin museum as a big pile Glad that the world is finally getting to see the long forgotten stories of the skeleton wars
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Dec 23, 2018 21:18
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MikeCrotch posted:Glad that the world is finally getting to see the long forgotten stories of the skeleton wars 
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Dec 23, 2018 21:22
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Actually most of Poland didn't get hit by the black death until a few years after the rest of Yurip, tho?
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Dec 23, 2018 21:25
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Why do you think the Chinese navy is guarding illegal salvage operations? Because it gets China what it wants, same reason the Chinese navy bullies everyone else's fishing industries and even military vessels that don't want to risk a shooting war with China.
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Dec 23, 2018 21:49
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SeanBeansShako posted:Aren't there terrible people more or less plundering 20th century war graves for scrap metal right now too? To be fair, it's not like the soldiers need it any more.
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Dec 23, 2018 21:58
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Squalid posted:Was there like an organized effort to dispose of all the trappings of nobility? What's become of the old social institutions of the nobility across Scandinavia in the last couple hundred years? Dane here, we clipped the wings of the nobility in 1849 in the democratic reform, and in 1919 we removed the last of the special status for barons and counts I believe. E: though, as with everywhere else, they've stuck around being exploitative, dumb and alltogether useless Tias fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 22:40
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Cythereal posted:Because it gets China what it wants, same reason the Chinese navy bullies everyone else's fishing industries and even military vessels that don't want to risk a shooting war with China. Those looted wrecks are located well outside of the nine-dash line so I was wondering if you had any sort of evidence that the PLAN is involved in illegal salvage operations.
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Dec 23, 2018 22:41
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Those looted wrecks are located well outside of the nine-dash line so I was wondering if you had any sort of evidence that the PLAN is involved in illegal salvage operations. They aren't. But they do like to hang around in international waters and the coastal waters of other Asian and Pacific nations while Chinese salvagers and fishermen do whatever they want in an unspoken "Who's gonna stop us?" gesture.
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Dec 23, 2018 23:10
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Cythereal posted:They aren't. But they do like to hang around in international waters and the coastal waters of other Asian and Pacific nations while Chinese salvagers and fishermen do whatever they want in an unspoken "Who's gonna stop us?" gesture. Those fishermen are routinely stopped and driven away by local navies. It's a little unhinged for you to insinuate that Chinese military assets are being used to guard illegal wargrave salvagers, that by all accounts are just be locals from Indonesia or Malaysia. The Chinese government has strategic interests in the Spratlys and they aren't afraid of flexing when it comes to military assets, but they don't sail all the way to the Sunda Strait.
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Dec 24, 2018 00:21
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Those fishermen are routinely stopped and driven away by local navies. It's a little unhinged for you to insinuate that Chinese military assets are being used to guard illegal wargrave salvagers, that by all accounts are just be locals from Indonesia or Malaysia. The Chinese government has strategic interests in the Spratlys and they aren't afraid of flexing when it comes to military assets, but they don't sail all the way to the Sunda Strait. Apologies for offending you, officer.
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Dec 24, 2018 00:24
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Dec 24, 2018 01:31
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Tias posted:Dane here, we clipped the wings of the nobility in 1849 in the democratic reform, and in 1919 we removed the last of the special status for barons and counts I believe. I guess what got me interested was the suggestion there was an active political effort to expunge their social relevance and distinction in Sweden, beyond just stripping them of legal privileges and tax exemptions. Going so far as to change the military officer structure because it was associated with class differences sounds like there must have been a pretty strong political effort to reduce class distinctions. I know class is still a thing in the UK so I guess I'm just curious how the other extant Monarchies grappled with the same issues of privilege. It's not surprising Finland disposed of their toffs after the revolution and independence, but I wonder how these social issues have been handled in Sweden and Denmark and the extent to which they still exist. Incidentally this subject is so foreign to me that I had to google for a derogatory synonymy for nobles, as American English does not have any native equivalents to a word like "toff."
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Dec 24, 2018 01:40
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Squalid posted:Incidentally this subject is so foreign to me that I had to google for a derogatory synonymy for nobles, as American English does not have any native equivalents to a word like "toff." In American English, the derogatory synonym for noble is 'noble.'  That's not completely a joke. Visit GiP and you'll note how when enlisted in the American military aren't feeling kind to officers, they call them nobles. Usually in the phrase "Nobles must hang."
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Dec 24, 2018 01:42
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What are the credible sources for this entirely made up "battle" whose existence is disproven by even the most superficial study of the Austro-Turkish war. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 01:43
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Vahakyla posted:If it is a SF team, some sort of Recce team, or perhaps a cavalry element, it might have an officer in charge of as few as 8 men, or perhaps 16. SF is all officers and sergeants because they're training the locals. An A-team (CPT, LT, and ten SGTs) ideally* runs a company-sized force of local guys in the field. *when my father was an "advisor" in the late stages of American involvement in Vietnam, they more often got sent out to do the stuff Rangers do. tonberrytoby posted:There are (mostly anglosphere influenced) countries where the gap between officer and nonofficer duties are so large that you need a warrant officer class to fill it. US Army helicopter pilots are a good example of that. We can't trust a dirty NCO with command of an aircraft, but they only need to maanage a fireteam-sized (at most) helicopter crew, so let's make this weird half-officer half-enlisted rank. See also the rank of specialist, which I think has been phased out. It was the same pay grade as corporal without the management skills, weird area between private and NCO.
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Dec 24, 2018 01:50
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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steinrokkan posted:What are the credible sources for this entirely made up "battle" whose existence is disproven by even the most superficial study of the Austro-Turkish war.
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Dec 24, 2018 01:58
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steinrokkan posted:What are the credible sources for this entirely made up "battle" whose existence is disproven by even the most superficial study of the Austro-Turkish war. The talk page is filled with people trying to get the article deleted, while the main entry lists a bunch of sources that mention some sort of friendly fire incident, but on the order of a few hundred guys injured in the night. Despite this, the main portion is entirely uncited. Why is it like this? 
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Dec 24, 2018 02:41
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How come the US during WWII didn’t make any anti tank guns larger than 37mm on a large scale?
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Dec 24, 2018 03:45
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Chillbro Baggins posted:
other way around, corporal is largely dead. the army used to have specialist pay grades up to E7, but those went away a while back also. This does get into an interesting discussion about rank and grade that I have only fairly recently been made aware of. In the western militaries today they are pretty much the same thing, but in a bunch of older militaries, especially Soviet derived ones, rank and grade are two different things, and grade tends to matter whole lot more than rank does, especially for officers. Basically it is like this entire other social hierarchy within the military that is deeply political and very complicated and I find it fascinating
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Dec 24, 2018 03:45
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How come the US during WWII didn’t make any anti tank guns larger than 37mm on a large scale? They did, both the 57mm (15k) and the various TDs.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:54
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Taerkar posted:They did, both the 57mm (15k) and the various TDs. Wiki says the 57mm was a British gun.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:57
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It was but the US did produce them under license and even made a few thousand for the British. There were also various 3" guns but overall it was more TDs and tanks than towed guns.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:58
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aphid_licker posted:That's illegal though. They however very officially put a bunch of Hegel's dudes' skeletons into a fuckin museum as a big pile The display of human remains is actually a huge interest of mine because due to various reasons there is a debate going on in North American archaeology about the display of human remains in musuems and presentaions and such. You get people rightly saying its super lovely to be displaying stolen Native American remains and burial goods so we should stop that to other people saying that no one actually likes the display of human remains and thus it needs to stop completely.
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Dec 24, 2018 03:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How come the US during WWII didn’t make any anti tank guns larger than 37mm on a large scale? US Army planners envisioned going up against German "Blitzkreig" offensives, large massed armored formations punching through the front line. Their solution was putting heavy antitank guns on mobile tank chassis's to counter these offensives by allowing them to quickly concentrate an armored defensive force. So they never got really into towed anti tank guns. The Soviet's used large defense in depth formations with massed anti tank gun redoubts that allowed tanks to punch through a thinner front line, but allowed them to punish tank formations that did not silence them. Tank archives Soviet instructions on Anti tank artillery defense
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Dec 24, 2018 04:14
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I've gotten past the Battle of Gaines Mill in the timeline of the Peninsula campaign, and it's so frustrating to read about George McClellan because it really seems like he wasn't actually losing the campaign and was in a good position to lay some siege to Richmond, except between Pinkerton's hugely inflated troop estimates (and his lying refusal to revise them downwards) and McClellan's own insecurities, he thinks he's outnumbered by two-to-one or some poo poo and so every battle he loses makes him even more scared, while every battle he wins only proves that the Confederates have more reserves anyway.
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Dec 24, 2018 04:16
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Dec 24, 2018 04:27
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Telsa Cola posted:The display of human remains is actually a huge interest of mine because due to various reasons there is a debate going on in North American archaeology about the display of human remains in musuems and presentaions and such. I wonder what the guys in those slabs would think of their predicament? I assume they'd prefer to be interred on hallowed ground, but I don't know if they'd have strong opinions on the specific handling and display of the bones, since an ossuary would a normal final resting place for Europeans in this period and it was in this era elaborate decorations made from human remains became fashionable in crypts. Of course I'm not sure how much exposure normal people wold have had to that trend.
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Dec 24, 2018 04:32
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Chillyrabbit posted:US Army planners envisioned going up against German "Blitzkreig" offensives, large massed armored formations punching through the front line. Their solution was putting heavy antitank guns on mobile tank chassis's to counter these offensives by allowing them to quickly concentrate an armored defensive force. So they never got really into towed anti tank guns. I’m going to get killed for this but... Is there a good readup of the US tank destroyer doctrine and it’s pros and cons?
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Dec 24, 2018 04:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I’m going to get killed for this but... It was a decent idea in theory to fight a situation that never happened.
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Dec 24, 2018 05:01
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It worked fairly well the few times it was actually put into practice with the desired equipment, but most of the time the TDs were just used as tanks or SPGs. Essentially it was determined to be better to just have more tanks and give them training to fight other tanks.
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Dec 24, 2018 05:13
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It’s funny how the Allies were freaked the gently caress out about Germany’s War Winning Blitzkrieg Wonder Strategy when the Germans by their own admission didn’t have anything that remotely resembled a strategy.
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Dec 24, 2018 05:34
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US tank destroyer doctrine was drawn up while Germany was still launching massive offensives like Barbarossa and was meant to defend against the same. By the time US ground forces were fighting in Europe, those days were gone. Apart from a few German counterattacks such as Kasserine Pass, Mortain, and the Ardennes, the kind of defensive fighting that the tank destroyer force was created to undertake never happened.
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Dec 24, 2018 05:35
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Squalid posted:I wonder what the guys in those slabs would think of their predicament? Prefrence really should be first and foremost what did the individual wants and then if thats unknown its whatever the culture/community normally wants or tends to do. 90% of the time though we have no idea what the person wants so you go by cultural norms. Ethically, if you are making a museum exhibit or presentation or whatever you really shouldnt be displaying things that the community would not want you to be displaying. Ossuaries freak out modern communites but given from my understanding they were meant to be seen its not an ethical issue to display them. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 06:24
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Is there actual evidence of anyone really using double-bitted axes for real as a weapon?
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Dec 24, 2018 06:58
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gradenko_2000 posted:I've gotten past the Battle of Gaines Mill in the timeline of the Peninsula campaign, and it's so frustrating to read about George McClellan because it really seems like he wasn't actually losing the campaign and was in a good position to lay some siege to Richmond, except between Pinkerton's hugely inflated troop estimates (and his lying refusal to revise them downwards) and McClellan's own insecurities, he thinks he's outnumbered by two-to-one or some poo poo and so every battle he loses makes him even more scared, while every battle he wins only proves that the Confederates have more reserves anyway. "If we had a million men, McClellan would swear the enemy had two millions and then he would sit down in the mud and yell for three"
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Dec 24, 2018 07:01
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